@teddy bear

Eastern europe is depressing overall. Weather is shitty. Salaries are low but costs of living quite low as well.

Western europe is more fun and nice in terms of climate and weather but expensive. People in Spain and France are strange to me.

Scandinavia is great deal in terms of living conditions but has shitty weather which would suck all life out of me I know that.

Souther Germany Hungary Austria seems like quite a good compromise in general and it is close to the warm sea.

Southern europe I dont know but does not strike me as well developed real deal area. Maybe north of Croatia and Italy.

I heard that southern coast of UK is ok and has not bad weather in general. Is it true

@Superschalk

I want to find a job there and work on my side projects in the meantime. My priority is well developed region with good infrastructure where I can leave fairly comfortably.

Im getting into IT industry so I think I can find job anywhere

Quote: (07-28-2017 03:11 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Im getting into IT industry so I think I can find job anywhere

If your are getting into the IT industry I guess you not have much experience so far. Also the IT industry is a big field. Are you a programmer, project manager, software tester, It security guy?

If your professional experience is limited you can pretty much forget about all EE countries even Czech Repulic, Slovakia and Hungary. You will not able to make more than €1000 a month max.

My first choice would be the UK. You will have the opportunity to find a decent junior role with a decent salary. After this I would look into Germany and Scandinavia. As Nowak mentioned Austria would be my first choice too but there are limited opportunities for IT people.

I know these countries mentioned are not the best for lifestyle but they are good countries to develop your career. You will also benefit from a good health system and will work in a very social secure environment.

Quote: (07-27-2017 07:08 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

What are the cheapest livable Euro countries?

Slovakia.

I would say Poland for now.

Another vote for Poland, especially at this time of year.

Also, Lithuania.

Quote: (07-28-2017 03:06 AM)XXL Wrote:  

@teddy bear

Eastern europe is depressing overall. Weather is shitty. Salaries are low but costs of living quite low as well.

Western europe is more fun and nice in terms of climate and weather but expensive. People in Spain and France are strange to me.

Scandinavia is great deal in terms of living conditions but has shitty weather which would suck all life out of me I know that.

Souther Germany Hungary Austria seems like quite a good compromise in general and it is close to the warm sea.

Southern europe I dont know but does not strike me as well developed real deal area. Maybe north of Croatia and Italy.

I heard that southern coast of UK is ok and has not bad weather in general. Is it true

South Coast of England certainly has the most acceptable climate in the UK, it suits me as a pasty northerner but it depends what you are used to I guess. It definitely doesn't match Mediterranean climates in terms of reliability of warmth and sunshine.

As a Ukrainian-Canadian living in Kyiv at the moment I would recommend my city. Everyone is coming for the girls here, so why not be part of the action? The problem is income as local wages top out at $1000USD per month even if you are English speaking so it's good to have a side hustle on a side doing something online or getting contracts abroad. As others have mentioned weather is a bummer from late November all the way to May.
As for expenses you can have a decent life here with apartment for $600-1000 per month.

In Europe now you have to take into account the rapefugee flow which will fuck up your daily life ever more.

Taking that into account I would recommend Iceland, Norway, Finland - aside from Eastern Europe. If you want it sunny and moderately developed with relatively little enrichment, then Portugal is an option.

Switzerland is a pussy drought. But it seems that you want to work in the local economy - so Norway, Finland are the best options. Norway is difficult to get into unless you are a non-European of dark complexion. Iceland living standards are not very high, but the promiscuity of the girls is high.

Frankly your criteria don't sound earnest - I lived in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and even a short time in France and the US. The old countries that once were are mostly gone - Paris is a shadow of their past and so is Vienna, Munich and Salzburg. The same goes for Rome and many other European grand cities of the past.

Also - no one the forum discounts the lack of pussy easily - EE vs Western Europe - the difference is massive.

Thanks for responses.

Im just doing a research where it is good to settle down so to speak.

On the other hand I would like to raise my kids in my native language and deep inside I would prefer to stay here where I feel at home. I like Poland but still feel like we are many years behind the Europe regarding pretty much everything. And I am tired of polish living conditions. You have to grind hard here to buy the same things that westerners can afford much easier. Even summer holiday, you go to nice places and prices in euro kind of kill your joy. Not fun to see some fucking tapas for 10-12 euro which is the price of full main dish in PL.

I guess the ultimate answer is making more money.

Quote: (07-28-2017 08:05 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Thanks for responses.

Im just doing a research where it is good to settle down so to speak.

On the other hand I would like to raise my kids in my native language and deep inside I would prefer to stay here where I feel at home. I like Poland but still feel like we are many years behind the Europe regarding pretty much everything. And I am tired of polish living conditions. You have to grind hard here to buy the same things that westerners can afford much easier. Even summer holiday, you go to nice places and prices in euro kind of kill your joy. Not fun to see some fucking tapas for 10-12 euro which is the price of full main dish in PL.

I guess the ultimate answer is making more money.

There's no country in Europe, where weather is great, everybody speaks English, people are nice, cost of living is low, salaries are high, infrastructure is good, bro. I've been to almost every country in Europe with few exceptions.

You need to narrow your criteria's. You know those girls who look for Mr. Charming, who's funny, rich, handsome, tall, charismatic, intelligent, caring, generous and then they complain about no good man is left for them. Just like that, your criteria's needs to be narrowed as well.

Spain not an option? Just learn Spanish . Or do you have issues with Spain related to those of Baldrich?

I read somewhere that experienced software engineers/IT consultants in Poland can earn up to 12000 PLN per month after tax, don't have a clue about junior profiles

In a chart that compared salary/cost of living ratio of different countries regarding IT careers Poland was above countries like UK and Germany.

12000 pln after tax = top 2% of polish salaries
Very hard to find apart if you are in Management of are a free-lancer working with WE companies

Quote: (07-28-2017 09:09 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

Quote: (07-28-2017 08:05 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Thanks for responses.

Im just doing a research where it is good to settle down so to speak.

On the other hand I would like to raise my kids in my native language and deep inside I would prefer to stay here where I feel at home. I like Poland but still feel like we are many years behind the Europe regarding pretty much everything. And I am tired of polish living conditions. You have to grind hard here to buy the same things that westerners can afford much easier. Even summer holiday, you go to nice places and prices in euro kind of kill your joy. Not fun to see some fucking tapas for 10-12 euro which is the price of full main dish in PL.

I guess the ultimate answer is making more money.

There's no country in Europe, where weather is great, everybody speaks English, people are nice, cost of living is low, salaries are high, infrastructure is good, bro. I've been to almost every country in Europe with few exceptions.

You need to narrow your criteria's. You know those girls who look for Mr. Charming, who's funny, rich, handsome, tall, charismatic, intelligent, caring, generous and then they complain about no good man is left for them. Just like that, your criteria's needs to be narrowed as well.

Does such a country even exist ?

For good weather all year round you don't have much choice: Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and Malta. Western Europe is not warmer than Eastern Europe, not sure where you get that from. Countries like UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland have shitty weather even in summer time with a good amount of rain. The North of France is also quite bad.

The job market in Poland is booming if you're working in finance or IT. Not to brag but I make more than 12k net/month and I'm 100% employed in Poland. I'm also not a manager. I know many other people who make solid money in Warsaw and Krakow. As a manager I wouldn't even look at anything below 20k net. The catch is that I travel a lot and put in many hours.

I would leave Poland for an equivalent salary and less working hours in a warmer country in Southern Europe but so far it's been almost impossible to find anything. The salaries in Greece, Italy and Portugal are laughable. The entry level positions in those countries may be better paid but for people with solid work experience they are actually lower than in Poland. If you add in the cost of living as well you're trading in 30-40% of your purchasing power to make the move from Poland. Spain is a bit better.

Solid countries to make money are UK, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Germany. Austria and France as well to a certain extent. Belgium is good but the taxes are too high. I'm sure you can squeeze in a good salary in Ireland or Iceland as well but who the fuck wants to live there ?

Weather is a bit better in Western Europe then in the Baltics or Belarus. Eastern European countries have shittier winters though.

Quote:Quote:


There's no country in Europe, where weather is great, everybody speaks English, people are nice, cost of living is low, salaries are high, infrastructure is good, bro. I've been to almost every country in Europe with few exceptions.

You need to narrow your criteria's. You know those girls who look for Mr. Charming, who's funny, rich, handsome, tall, charismatic, intelligent, caring, generous and then they complain about no good man is left for them. Just like that, your criteria's needs to be narrowed as well.

Fair enough

Quote:Quote:


I read somewhere that experienced software engineers/IT consultants in Poland can earn up to 12000 PLN per month after tax, don't have a clue about junior profiles

In a chart that compared salary/cost of living ratio of different countries regarding IT careers Poland was above countries like UK and Germany.

Seems like there is a hope here for me then. I need to get back to work hard

Quote:Quote:


The job market in Poland is booming if you're working in finance or IT. Not to brag but I make more than 12k net/month and I'm 100% employed in Poland. I'm also not a manager. I know many other people who make solid money in Warsaw and Krakow. As a manager I wouldn't even look at anything below 20k net. The catch is that I travel a lot and put in many hours.

I would leave Poland for an equivalent salary and less working hours in a warmer country in Southern Europe but so far it's been almost impossible to find anything. The salaries in Greece, Italy and Portugal are laughable. The entry level positions in those countries may be better paid but for people with solid work experience they are actually lower than in Poland. If you add in the cost of living as well you're trading in 30-40% of your purchasing power to make the move from Poland. Spain is a bit better.

Solid countries to make money are UK, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Germany. Austria and France as well to a certain extent. Belgium is good but the taxes are too high. I'm sure you can squeeze in a good salary in Ireland or Iceland as well but who the fuck wants to live there ?

That is very good news for me.

It seems like I am looking for some unicorn and think that grass is always greener somewhere out there. Your words got me thinking. I had no idea that experienced and competent people are making more here than in the countries you mentioned.

I need to reconsider my drive to move out. Thanks

Quote: (07-28-2017 03:43 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Quote: (07-27-2017 07:08 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

What are the cheapest livable Euro countries?

Slovakia.

Thanks bro

Quote: (07-28-2017 04:13 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:


The job market in Poland is booming if you're working in finance or IT. Not to brag but I make more than 12k net/month and I'm 100% employed in Poland. I'm also not a manager. I know many other people who make solid money in Warsaw and Krakow. As a manager I wouldn't even look at anything below 20k net. The catch is that I travel a lot and put in many hours.

I would leave Poland for an equivalent salary and less working hours in a warmer country in Southern Europe but so far it's been almost impossible to find anything. The salaries in Greece, Italy and Portugal are laughable. The entry level positions in those countries may be better paid but for people with solid work experience they are actually lower than in Poland. If you add in the cost of living as well you're trading in 30-40% of your purchasing power to make the move from Poland. Spain is a bit better.

Solid countries to make money are UK, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Germany. Austria and France as well to a certain extent. Belgium is good but the taxes are too high. I'm sure you can squeeze in a good salary in Ireland or Iceland as well but who the fuck wants to live there ?

That is very good news for me.

It seems like I am looking for some unicorn and think that grass is always greener somewhere out there. Your words got me thinking. I had no idea that experienced and competent people are making more here than in the countries you mentioned.

I need to reconsider my drive to move out. Thanks

Be careful here(page 43)
http://www.hrtrendy.pl/wp-content/upload...016_v3.pdf

Those are the current salaries... I work for a Fortune 100 IT company here and I do not see much salary above 12K GROSS. Exception is for people who have 10 years+ experience OR who are freelance... in that case indeed it might be worth considering Poland

The Poles have low incomes, but living costs are also relatively low. What saves them is that both partners are working, some supplement their income by working in Western Europe for a time.

And then there is the biggest reason for the relative affluence:

+ large number of small to medium sized companies - even many smaller businesses making more money than being employed
+ 10 mio. + of self-owned homes, apartments and plots of land

The latter part is the one that is driving the country. Also the people are highly industrious and diligent.

But make no mistake - wages are pretty low. I met managers making at best 1500 EUR net. And these were run-of-the-mill middle managers in companies with 500 mio. EUR turnover.

Some small restaurant owners made 3000-4000 EUR.

Frankly the best deal you can have is to get hired by a Western company via the Western branch and be relocated to Poland. So you are an IT guy working for a UK bank, then relocate at identical pay to Warsaw or Krakow. Your 30.000-50.000 £ is going to last much further than living in London of course. There are even call center jobs offered in Poland that require perfect English or German/French - and they get paid 1000-1500 EUR. Essentially they are the equivalent of the jobs from the West, but again - that money makes you middle class in Poland vs underclass in Britain.

Lisbon or Barcelona/ Valencia would be my choice. Good food, cheap living , good weather and tons of tourists and and a cool language.


I've tried Eastern Europe ( Poland ) as well for living and it's super depressing. I would not recommend it to anyone. Yes, girls are decent there but what about the rest? Super boring to live , not much to do, unfriendly people, cold weather, poor wagues..

No company is willing to relocate anyone from West to Poland with the same salary, jobs moved to Poland only because of much lower wages.
Overall as you are saying with a western salary made in PLN you could enjoy a pretty good lifestyle in Poland. You need to be good in your field and working in a niche. Traveling for holidays in Western countries is also not an issue since if you don't spend tons of money in Poland, you are able to save and spend money when abroad. If you live in London you spend all your salary in UK and no money to travel...it is arduous to save.
On the other end the Polish society doesn't appreciate ambition and motivation at work, which is a negative point since it is complicated to create a network of serious professionals.
As we discussed the main issue is Poland are girls, too much flakey, closed-minded, conservative and virgin types.

Quote: (07-29-2017 07:59 AM)SpursFan741 Wrote:  

Lisbon or Barcelona/ Valencia would be my choice. Good food, cheap living , good weather and tons of tourists and and a cool language.


I've tried Eastern Europe ( Poland ) as well for living and it's super depressing. I would not recommend it to anyone. Yes, girls are decent there but what about the rest? Super boring to live , not much to do, unfriendly people, cold weather, poor wagues..

I agree but girls in Spain are super ugly, just like Italy too.

I was just in Barcelona and Valencia 2 weeks ago. They have same attitude towards any man and acting like Adriana Lima when they're just 6.

I think living in Mallorca would be perfect. You'd get insane tourists like 7 months out of a year.