I make a little money at freelancing, but not enough to hire an armored car.

Become the one who hires freelancers instead of he freelancer.

In other words become the vendor who is truly trusted and get freelancers to do pieces of the work.

Quote: (08-18-2016 09:01 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

Quote: (08-18-2016 03:45 PM)Tayo Wrote:  

Does anyone make money online? Like freelancing, e-commerce, affiliate marketing, selling digital products, adsense etc. I am looking for someone that is actually successful not someone that sells the dream of making money online.

yes, freelancing. I make enough at it that my wife's only jobs are to clean the house, cook the food, care for the kid and look good.

It can be done.

How?

I have a small stake in a small business that I've been helping my friend run part-time (mostly weekend gigs). I bought in at about a third to a quarter of the current valuation and I have no major concerns about the company's health. The majority owner is dedicated and has a solid track record. I enjoy working with him and our other partner.

We're likely purchasing another vendor's equipment and paying over used value (not by a ton, but more than we'd likely pay otherwise) as a package deal to be their exclusive vendor for this subset of their business. They are the type of networked vendor that we value highly as clients/partners as they can introduce us to other vendors/clients of this type who can really ramp up our sales/gigs. We also gain a transport vehicle for the equipment which is very helpful logistically (during our high season).

The equipment is not perfect but mostly in the upper tier of quality/condition and we don't currently need it, but definitely can put it to use in our upcoming high season and we're moving into growing the company so more equipment will be needed even if not immediately.

We can't cover the acquisition with cash on hand as the business is seasonal and we're not in our high season.

I've proposed fronting the cash to make the acquisition/partnership happen and that it be secured in some fashion. The majority owner said we could have our company pay me back through the high season as a short-term payable at a 5% APR and I'd own all the assets we're acquiring until the loan is paid. I think this is plenty fair and very low risk, but is there anything I should be considering?

Keep in mind that I'm much more liquid than I've ever been at the moment. I have fairly low living expenses and have a comfortable fuck you fund of at least 2 years worth of expenses and this wouldn't really dent it much.

Quote: (08-29-2016 02:19 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

I have a small stake in a small business that I've been helping my friend run part-time (mostly weekend gigs). I bought in at about a third to a quarter of the current valuation and I have no major concerns about the company's health. The majority owner is dedicated and has a solid track record. I enjoy working with him and our other partner.

We're likely purchasing another vendor's equipment and paying over used value (not by a ton, but more than we'd likely pay otherwise) as a package deal to be their exclusive vendor for this subset of their business. They are the type of networked vendor that we value highly as clients/partners as they can introduce us to other vendors/clients of this type who can really ramp up our sales/gigs. We also gain a transport vehicle for the equipment which is very helpful logistically (during our high season).

The equipment is not perfect but mostly in the upper tier of quality/condition and we don't currently need it, but definitely can put it to use in our upcoming high season and we're moving into growing the company so more equipment will be needed even if not immediately.

We can't cover the acquisition with cash on hand as the business is seasonal and we're not in our high season.

I've proposed fronting the cash to make the acquisition/partnership happen and that it be secured in some fashion. The majority owner said we could have our company pay me back through the high season as a short-term payable at a 5% APR and I'd own all the assets we're acquiring until the loan is paid. I think this is plenty fair and very low risk, but is there anything I should be considering?

Keep in mind that I'm much more liquid than I've ever been at the moment. I have fairly low living expenses and have a comfortable fuck you fund of at least 2 years worth of expenses and this wouldn't really dent it much.

Since no one else has replied, here's my first thought. Do you have a plan on how you could move that equipment if the majority owner decides he doesn't want it and you're left holding the bag? How liquid is it?

I suppose you'd have to consider legal questions. Can that asset really be separated from company assets? If for example, there was some event that lead to the company going bust, would it not just be liquidated as a company asset and your loan just joining the rest of the claimants?

So if it really is a good purchase, it's the ownership structure you have to worry about. Perhaps you just buy it in your own name and the company then mortgages it from you according to whatever amortization structure you agree too.

AneroidOcean, you should be fine re: the terms of the deal (whether you want to do it is your own decision of course). 5% interest on cash from a business you can influence is a pretty good deal though.

What you want is a charge on the assets - essentially like a mortgage. This gives you a property right in the asset itself, and makes you a preferred creditor should the company go bust. If the company were liquidated you would be at the front of the queue to get your money back. The technical term if you want to Google it is a lien - specifically a lien on a chattel.

Alternatively, you could look at buying the equipment and leasing it to the company for X years until the machinery is paid for. That way, you can arrange something that works for all parties by helping the business in the short term, and perhaps in the long term realising a better rate of return for yourself. Of course these are matters for your own consideration.

Thank you all for the responses.

Quote: (08-31-2016 11:31 AM)bhawthorne Wrote:  

Since no one else has replied, here's my first thought. Do you have a plan on how you could move that equipment if the majority owner decides he doesn't want it and you're left holding the bag? How liquid is it?

Something I hadn't thought of. The assets aren't all that liquid but I have enough contacts amongst our industry that I could sell them and end up at a minimal loss. The next biggest potential problem would be storage as the assets are not that small. Luckily I have multiple potential garages I could store this stuff in which I have relatively easy access to so that's not really an issue. The downside would be time to recoup my investment but as I see this as a pretty healthy business, I am not too concerned.

Quote: (08-31-2016 12:18 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I suppose you'd have to consider legal questions. Can that asset really be separated from company assets? If for example, there was some event that lead to the company going bust, would it not just be liquidated as a company asset and your loan just joining the rest of the claimants?

So if it really is a good purchase, it's the ownership structure you have to worry about. Perhaps you just buy it in your own name and the company then mortgages it from you according to whatever amortization structure you agree too.

Quote: (08-31-2016 02:47 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

AneroidOcean, you should be fine re: the terms of the deal (whether you want to do it is your own decision of course). 5% interest on cash from a business you can influence is a pretty good deal though.

What you want is a charge on the assets - essentially like a mortgage. This gives you a property right in the asset itself, and makes you a preferred creditor should the company go bust. If the company were liquidated you would be at the front of the queue to get your money back. The technical term if you want to Google it is a lien - specifically a lien on a chattel.

Alternatively, you could look at buying the equipment and leasing it to the company for X years until the machinery is paid for. That way, you can arrange something that works for all parties by helping the business in the short term, and perhaps in the long term realising a better rate of return for yourself. Of course these are matters for your own consideration.

Okay, would a promissory note stating that I own all the assets until the debt is re-paid be enough? Feel free to PM me if you think this would be better discussed there. Also, in all likelihood the money would be paid back before our next high season so within a calendar year so I'm not too concerned about eeking out more return as the goal here is to increase the value of our company as well as it's flexibility. Again, appreciate the insight on my exposure.

I met recently with the vendor who we'd acquire these assets and ongoing sub-contracted business from and I was definitely impressed with their organization level, solid staff, and networking (it was a networking event they hosted). I feel even stronger about the growth opportunity.

What is the value of the equipment you're buying and what is the valuation of the company? 5% is a slight premium over current bank rates for a company with plenty of collateral, but not huge. If the new equipment will be a significant portion of the company's value, especially to the point where a traditional bank wouldn't cover the purchase, it seems like you could do better. After all, you'll only be getting a minority of the money this new equipment makes when it's put into service.

Quote: (08-31-2016 09:48 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  

What is the value of the equipment you're buying and what is the valuation of the company? 5% is a slight premium over current bank rates for a company with plenty of collateral, but not huge. If the new equipment will be a significant portion of the company's value, especially to the point where a traditional bank wouldn't cover the purchase, it seems like you could do better. After all, you'll only be getting a minority of the money this new equipment makes when it's put into service.

These equipment/assets would be well under 10% of the value of the company.

What do you mean I'd get a minority of the money this new equipment makes when it's put into service?

I get interest on my loan.

I get increased valuation of the company from equipment value alone as well as from the increase in revenue from new (and hopefully increasing) business.

Yes, the equipment over time will make far more money than the interest I make on my loan to the business, but I don't see how that should stop me from doing it considering it still benefits me.

Perhaps I misunderstood you, please clarify.

As a 25% owner you stand to reap 25% of the profits the new equipment would bring in while the other owners would get 75%, but you are assuming 100% of the liability in purchasing it independently - whether it works correctly, whether you will be paid back for it, finding storage, what if it's damaged in storage/insurance etc. If it's under 10% of company value the risk on losing money on it seems insignificant if the contracts are worded correctly though. Wouldn't your partners be able to secure a loan for ~4% APR if that were the case though, and absolve you of the risk? If it's an amount you're comfortable shelling out, and you don't have other investments which would give you a greater return than the 5% then no problem. But if your partners were unable to land conventional financing then you buying it for them at 5%APR would be a deal in my opinion. Might be worth that in goodwill alone, as long as they recognize.

Quote: (08-31-2016 06:54 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Okay, would a promissory note stating that I own all the assets until the debt is re-paid be enough? Feel free to PM me if you think this would be better discussed there. Also, in all likelihood the money would be paid back before our next high season so within a calendar year so I'm not too concerned about eeking out more return as the goal here is to increase the value of our company as well as it's flexibility. Again, appreciate the insight on my exposure.

I met recently with the vendor who we'd acquire these assets and ongoing sub-contracted business from and I was definitely impressed with their organization level, solid staff, and networking (it was a networking event they hosted). I feel even stronger about the growth opportunity.

Sort of. In effect it's a contract, it's just a contract with the intention to give you different legal remedies to the typical unsecured contract which we execute in business everyday.

You are looking to lend the money to the company, which would then buy the asset. I think the most secure way of doing things, depending on the period between lending the money and the equipment being bought, would be to have a contract with the company that the money is lent for the specific purpose of buying a defined class of equipment from a specific buyer. Ideally this money would be put in a new bank account (just a sub account set up with no other funds in it) since this would create a trust (if only by operation of law, in court) over the money, and give you residual property rights in it (gross oversimplification, but all that matters). Then, once the plant was bought, you would immediately sign another contract granting you a lien over the plant (defined fully in the contract), and using the specific term lien. This would then be placed with your 'county recorder' or what every your equivalent of the district register is (not a US lawyer, but you're a common law jurisdiction and most things between our two systems are broadly the same).

If you're only going to hand over the money when you go with the guys to buy the kit, and then make up the transaction in your accounts as a directors loan or whatever, then you probably only need the second contract.

It doesn't have to be complicated:

We the Directors of COMPANY X, hereafter 'The Company', grant AneroidOcean (AO) a lien over The Property, as defined below. The lien is to provide security for The Loan, as defined below, of value for the purchase of The Property, and is to apply until such time as The Loan has been repaid in full, including any interest accruing. In the event of any default on The Loan by The Company, AO will have the right to take possession of The Property, and sell it on the open market to realise any outstanding monies owed to him. Any surplus funds once the debt has been discharged will belong to the company, the lien having been extinguished.

The Property is defined as: document all equipment covered

The Loan is defined as: document the full terms of the loan.

Signed by all the directors (including you?), and by you as an individual

I am not a practicing lawyer, though I trained as one. I run a business and the above is the kind of thing I'd knock out to cover something like this. It's not what a proper lawyer would produce, probably, but something along these lines should be more than adequate. You don't need a thousand clauses and a $300/h charge out rate to come to an agreement which a court would, in the worst instance, give effect to.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, the above is not legal advice, and I would encourage you to seek legal counsel before entering into any arrangement.

Quote: (08-07-2016 11:04 AM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

Quote: (08-01-2016 02:42 AM)Gorgiass Wrote:  

Never make business personal - I've been dealing with a manufacturer who fucked up a simple calculation which cost us a bunch of money, for several months now, and they have refused to own up to it. Finally got a higher up on the phone, spent and hour demolishing their case, point by point. He had visualization issues and was making a false argument. Finally realized he was wrong and attempted to save face by blaming it on a semantic misunderstanding. I gave it to him.

Never lose sight of the goal - to get your money. I, and I'm sure many others love to crush the ego of a moron who somehow rose to a position of power, but it's better to let them retain their dignity if it gives them an out and gets you your money. The goal is to win your money, not prove your intellectual superiority.

As soon as he said this, rather than calling him out on what he'd just been arguing for the last 15 minutes, I said, "OK, so we agree then that if you guys had done X then we wouldn't have had to do Y onsite." Therefore validating my entire claim.

Shortly after this he said that he couldn't authorize this kind of money and would have to take it to the CEO. $$$ incoming.

any update?

Closed this out end of last week. Same guy called me and almost immediately led off with what was either piss poor phrasing or an attempt to downgrade expectations, and by comparison sweeten the coming offer, essentially implying that we were going to rehash the whole debate yet again, ended his rambling opener along the lines of "...but I'm not sure where we left off." Personally, when I'm negotiating I take the opposite tact and butter them and what they're selling up before I come in with a lowball offer. More flies with honey thing, but whatever.
"You were going to get a hold of the CEO and see what you could come up with"
"I did that and he said that if you guys were willing to spit it he'd sign off" (For clarity, my partner had come in high with the reimbursement request at ~$4k, we agreed to settle for half that privately but hope for more of course. Not a huge amount of money in the scheme of things but still significant.)
"OK, [partner]is the money guy, did you run it by him?
"I did, and he said to take it up with you"
"Well if he's ok with it, then it works for me" threw his ego a bone so he'd have some positive emotions to associate with our Co "We enjoy working for you guys and you're usually pretty good to us, so splitting it is fine" or something along those lines (not worth expending more time and goodwill for a few hundred bucks)
He reciprocated "Good, I'll get that out then. People have said that you guys are good installers and not many people could have made this work"

We won't lose much money on it and they'll still send us invitations to bid, hopefully on jobs with less fuckuppery. Satisfactory resolution.

I'm still struggling with finding an ideal online platform to sell my art stuff (prints, postcards, comics and some originals)
So far Etsy seems a good candidate but still doesn't cut it

Quote: (09-06-2016 01:25 AM)El_Gostro Wrote:  

I'm still struggling with finding an ideal online platform to sell my art stuff (prints, postcards, comics and some originals)
So far Etsy seems a good candidate but still doesn't cut it

What are you looking for in a platform?

Quote:Quote:

What are you looking for in a platform?

Something I could easily update from my mobile.
I thought selling postcards by singles and/or in bulk since they are my main income maker

Are you looking for a place with an existing brand and marketing that you would piggyback on or are you interested in having your own dotcom domain name on a site that you would promote yourself?

Quote:Suits Wrote:

Are you looking for a place with an existing brand and marketing that you would piggyback on or are you interested in having your own dotcom domain name on a site that you would promote yourself?

I'd rather have my own domain to promote myself.
I've discovered in the street art market that I am much more comfortable better and engaged at creating and shaping my own thunder/brand.

Edit&addendum:
I've been looking into expanding our selection to accessories and clothing so I would be a perfect store complement to my art-domain (Moved the non-pc content to a tumblr in sig)

Quote: (09-07-2016 04:07 PM)El_Gostro Wrote:  

Quote:Suits Wrote:

Are you looking for a place with an existing brand and marketing that you would piggyback on or are you interested in having your own dotcom domain name on a site that you would promote yourself?

I'd rather have my own domain to promote myself.
I've discovered in the street art market that I am much more comfortable better and engaged at creating and shaping my own thunder/brand.

Edit&addendum:
I've been looking into expanding our selection to accessories and clothing so I would be a perfect store complement to my art-domain (Moved the non-pc content to a tumblr in sig)

Why not use Shopify?

I know many people who sell art, jewelry, and pretty much anything else on it.

Take a look at Squarespace. All the tools you need to create an attractive website with e-commerce elements seamlessly integrated.

Quote: (09-07-2016 04:44 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

Quote: (09-07-2016 04:07 PM)El_Gostro Wrote:  

Quote:Suits Wrote:

Are you looking for a place with an existing brand and marketing that you would piggyback on or are you interested in having your own dotcom domain name on a site that you would promote yourself?

I'd rather have my own domain to promote myself.
I've discovered in the street art market that I am much more comfortable better and engaged at creating and shaping my own thunder/brand.

Edit&addendum:
I've been looking into expanding our selection to accessories and clothing so I would be a perfect store complement to my art-domain (Moved the non-pc content to a tumblr in sig)

Why not use Shopify?

I know many people who sell art, jewelry, and pretty much anything else on it.

+1
Haven't run it myself but have a few friends who run Shopify websites and they are smooth and easy to use.

Question:
I have a domain from an app project that fell apart, i think we paid 800 for the name, its a seven letter two word .com

should i drop or keep renewing in hopes it may be a project again someday. i can say i don't really have the time for it.

I don't want to post what it is because of whois but no problem pming it.

Considering domains are just $8/year it might be worth holding onto for a year or two.

Even better... every so often sites like Rebel.com have transfer in deals for like $3 or $4 and a year gets added to the domain registration.

Also, if you guys were willing to pay $800 for it perhaps someone would want it for $500? $400? $300? $200?

What about making a mini-site with affiliate links and/or Adsense and then list it on Flippa?

Just some ideas.

What do you guys think about a middleman? I'm thinking about becoming one. Getting quotes from companies to provide services for companies. No overhead, inventory, or payroll. I just provide the service by finding subcontractors to fulfill a contract.

Quote: (09-08-2016 07:10 PM)Belize King Wrote:  

What do you guys think about a middleman? I'm thinking about becoming one. Getting quotes from companies to provide services for companies. No overhead, inventory, or payroll. I just provide the service by finding subcontractors to fulfill a contract.

It's becoming a very popular business model now. You simply sell services, hire the contractors on upwork. I think I wrote about it somewhere...In any case, I like the business model - as long as you know how to acquire clients, it's worth looking into.