Hello,

So just moved to a new location and decided to get back into gaming full time (the last two years I gamed sparingly and spent most of the money on self-improvement). Downloaded Bang and Day Bang again after replacing my old phone and resurrected my Plenty of Fish account.

Was messaged by this girl the first day opening my account. To make a long story short, we exchanged messages over the course of two days and agreed to meet. We went on a date at a bar near my place then bounced into the city.

It got late but could tell the girl was feeling me. Did some of the routines from Bang, did a lot of push and pull, made her laugh, etc. We had quick kiss bursts but she kept refusing a hard makeout. After we were done I told her I would drive her back to my car but we would stop at my place first so she could see the guitar I told her I played all night.

Now here is where I will admit I fucked up. She was in my bed and I tried making out with her, but she kept rolling over complaining she was tired (she had to be to work the next morning literally in 4 hours). In all fairness, I had a bad case of whisky-dick going and wasn't too horny, but I felt I needed the notch. After some resistance, I drive her back to her car and she leaves to go back home.

She messages me the next day and we agree to a lunch date at this diner (she was keen on meeting me again). After an hour long conversation and joking around and being playful and making her laugh, she grabs my hand as I walk her back to the car (she had a meeting after lunch so I could not invite her over) but keeps moving away when I try to go for the makeout. She drives away and I have since tried to contact her but no answer.

Just trying to find out what went wrong. I have been having this problem of getting past the second date, even when I bang the girl or she has a great time. I notice that this is mostly a problem from my POF dates; I have gotten past the second date and even into an LTR with women who I all met in person, but it's rare. I feel that I am creating more attraction and less comfort, but I could be wrong.

You probably lost that one, it happens. I've been exactly where you are, and what helped me in interactions after that,was to have zero expectations. Just deal with what's in front of you. Focus on the moment at hand instead of trying to just get to sex. Girls feel when your just going through the motions just to fuck them.

So next time your kissing a girl (that you have yet to have sex with) kiss her with passion like that's the last kiss you'll ever have. And only focus on one activity at a time.

The girl will feel that your present in the moment , and not just trying to check off a list to sex.Thus she will feel comfortable giving it up to you.

I think going for the second date the next day is too early, especially if it's a lunch date and you were out getting drunk the night before. In my experience it's difficult to maintain the good vibe from the day before and it all just kind of fizzles out in the end.

Also be very careful not to assume that you can proceed with a sober girl based on the signals you got when she was drunk. In a lot of cases it will be a complete reset for them.

Quote: (08-07-2016 03:56 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  

I think going for the second date the next day is too early, especially if it's a lunch date and you were out getting drunk the night before. In my experience it's difficult to maintain the good vibe from the day before and it all just kind of fizzles out in the end.

Also be very careful not to assume that you can proceed with a sober girl based on the signals you got when she was drunk. In a lot of cases it will be a complete reset for them.

Sorry, I meant to put in the article that the lunch date was a few days after the bar. We just set it up the next day.

Looking back on my online dating experiences, from your explanation it doesn't really sound like you did anything "wrong" per se. You were simply dealing with a standard issue flakey "hot and cold" online girl of the type I've encountered many times before.

I've done all sorts of stuff with online girls on the first date hoping to escalate towards the bang, but they quite often pull back in the same way the girl you're talking about did. I don't keep date by date statistics or anything, but I'd estimate that if I don't get the lay on the first date, my chances of it ever happening, or even ever hearing from her again are pretty slim...maybe 15% at best. That's just the nature of the online game.

Escalation can be a fine line to walk; there are some girls who will simply not have sex before three dates or so, and will eject if they get the sense that you're not "taking it slow." And there are others who expect you to move more quickly. Sadly, the "three date Kates" are probably not a good fit for online dating, as men know that the chances of a girl showing up for a day 2 when nothing happened on the first date are even slimmer than if something did.

Who are the guys that are actually making it to three dates with these girls? I don't know. What I do know is that the "take it slow" girls, particularly in their late 20s and 30s, are the ones most likely to have dick on call from somewhere else, so they're just fucking around. A girl with limited options who isn't getting laid isn't going to waste much time either when she finds a guy she likes, believe me. I don't really want to be the "take it slow" guy.

The only "mistake" I can see, if you want to call it that, is that you continued to push forward when she was rejecting the makeout. However much I think a girl might be "feeling me", if she's rejecting appropriately-timed escalation like that then I know there's some kind of issue, and I don't have the time to try and figure out what it is. Once she was blowing off the makeout on the first date, I honestly would've started thinking about how to close it out and eject. You did get a second meet, but the result was the same as if you'd bounced after the first...you didn't get the bang and you never heard from her again.

From experience I can tell you it's almost always gonna play out that way - she's not magically going to be super big into you on a second meet if she wasn't on the first. Don't let the "sunk cost fallacy" get you.

At this point I think you should simply run the same routine you did with this girl, but hopefully on a chick who's more with the program. Eventually she'll show up...if this girl was feeling you then there's no question there are many out there who are also yet more receptive. But it's always a crapshoot online - you're actually pulling from POF which is pretty cool, as my results have been terrible with that app around here.

@XP

The rule I have with 3 date kate's is this..credit goes to suits, who penned this originally. I can't recall the exact phrasing he used but it goes something like this:

"If a girl doesn't fuck you on the first night it doesn't necessarily mean you next her right away, as long as each time you see her you're progressively getting closer to the bang, then you just ride that train to it's destination. It's the bitches who are giving you as little as possible while extracting the maximum amount of attention that you need to 86 immediately."

I will add that in the case of the "modern empowered online girl" you're less likely to see her again if you don't get your meat puppet into one of her orifices on the first encounter. Online girls require aggressive escalation. XP I disagree with you here that he made a mistake by pushing the makeout. If anything, he didn't escalate enough or maybe the timing was off, or just didn't execute tight game leading up to the moment. In any case she had to be comfortable enough with him to be in his bed... but as we all know comfort without attraction equals blue balls.

In my experience, online girls have increasingly grown to hate comfort game. They would rather think you're a serial killer than a provider. it's the ultimate form of cognitive dissonance, as we increasingly see more "not here for hookups" or "looking for something meaningful" listed in girls profiles, it comes as no surprise that they mean the exact opposite. Keep this in mind when you meet with these girls.

THEY DO NOT WANT COMFORT!

Quote: (08-07-2016 11:12 AM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

I will add that in the case of the "modern empowered online girl" you're less likely to see her again if you don't get your meat puppet into one of her orifices on the first encounter. Online girls require aggressive escalation. XP I disagree with you here that he made a mistake by pushing the makeout. If anything, he didn't escalate enough or maybe the timing was off, or just didn't execute tight game leading up to the moment. In any case she had to be comfortable enough with him to be in his bed... but as we all know comfort without attraction equals blue balls.

No, don't misunderstand, I always escalate when it's appropriate to do so on a first date. I can generally get a good sense within about 30 minutes if a girl is legitimately interested in me, or not, and whether she'll be receptive.

However, I don't escalate on girls that seem disinterested or cold or aren't giving me good body language. You can pretty well sense when the body language a girl is giving you means she isn't receptive...when she tries to sit 6 feet away and the date feels like a business meeting at IBM. I can also get a good sense of this within about 30 minutes, and if I'm getting the business meeting feel then I'm planning my exit at that point.

Similarly, I've gotten pretty good at timing the first major escalation with girls who are giving me good signals. "LMR" is one thing, and it's pretty common for girls to put up a token effort at it (but I'm not really a fan of trying to break down the more severe forms.) "First minute resistance" is quite another.

Honestly, fuck a girl like the one in OP's story who comes back to your place or you go to hers on a first or second date, gets into bed with you, and then pulls this "I'm tired" bullshit. I've walked out on girls I'm banging regularly for pulling that shit, much less girls I've just met.

Girls who do that are ones who have been meeting randos so long from online dating that they themselves intuitively know the score: if they don't give the impression that they're going to put out in the near future the guy is going to walk, so they do this corny marketing tactic to try and make you think something happened when nothing did. The same sort of thing happened to me with an OKC girl back in February - really "into me" on the date, get her back to her place, and she shuts down completely. I only let her do it twice before I nexted her. It's just a high-pressure sales tactic.

It's hard to have much sympathy. They want to have it both ways: fuck in 20 minutes when they want to with some guys, and do the "let's take it slow" thing with others. It's not really my problem. I think most men would feel perfectly comfortable taking it slow if we didn't know that a) she's fucked a bunch of other guys that she didn't take it slow with and b) they're meeting up with so many guys that the chances of actually making it to date 3 with a "three date Kate" are pretty slim. Oh well, the dug their own graves.

Quote:Quote:

In my experience, online girls have increasingly grown to hate comfort game. They would rather think you're a serial killer than a provider. it's the ultimate form of cognitive dissonance, as we increasingly see more "not here for hookups" or "looking for something meaningful" listed in girls profiles, it comes as no surprise that they mean the exact opposite. Keep this in mind when you meet with these girls.

THEY DO NOT WANT COMFORT!

In my experience from the ~50 or so online girls I've met at this point, they fall into three major categories:

1) Girls who really like you, and want you to move the fuck along. Definitely don't run "comfort game" on them, you're right! On occasion you won't get the lay on the first date, particularly with women in their early 30s, but otherwise the escalation went well and there's little question you'll be in on the second, cuz she's often the one pitching the day 2 herself.

2) Serial daters, most women in their 30s, and random weirdos who simply aren't into you for whatever reason. You can usually spot the attitude of these girls pretty quickly, they're lost causes, and there's no point in spending any more time on them then you need to.

3) Manipulators who will go on multiple dates with you where not much happens, simply to get a sense of what you're good for.

^ Those 3 sound pretty accurate to me. However:

Quote:Quote:

Girls who really like you, and want you to move the fuck along. Definitely don't run "comfort game" on them, you're right!

Neither of the other two are types you would want to run comfort game on, either. Comfort game as a whole is on it's way out. The type you put as #3 are #1 to some guys. They are all interchangeable. A chick who would try to use you for a free meal is sucking someone else's dick on the first night. And vice versa. Therefore I fail to see the use of playing into their hands if they aren't playing by my rules.

I would like to add that it is not necessary to kiss a girl to fuck her... a lot of girls that are fresh out of a relationship do not feel emotionally ready to Kiss another man. Kissing is more intimate that sex, or at least it can be (that's another story on love making vs sex). So (and this is pretty rare, but actually less rare than you may think) just go for the sex part, especially if she's in your bed. Use your touch and caressing skills to turn her on, or even try kissing her stomach/thighs/etc., NOT making out with her.

It's worked for me a handful of times where the girl was just being weird about kissing me, and just simply skipped that step. I later found out after the bang that she had a bf recently and wasn't ready to kiss me (her confession)

What do you guys think? Anyone else tried this?

Quote: (08-07-2016 11:12 AM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

In my experience, online girls have increasingly grown to hate comfort game. They would rather think you're a serial killer than a provider. it's the ultimate form of cognitive dissonance, as we increasingly see more "not here for hookups" or "looking for something meaningful" listed in girls profiles, it comes as no surprise that they mean the exact opposite. Keep this in mind when you meet with these girls.

THEY DO NOT WANT COMFORT!

That's my experience as well. I attract a lot more girls online by being a playful jerk then by being the comfort guy. I can't think of when online comforting ever really helped me, except to help me become an emotional tampon. I remember one time I slipped into this, and told the chick "listen, I don't really care about any of that" and she called me an asshole. Then one message later she texted me for the first time on the subject of sex.

Quote: (08-06-2016 10:51 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

We had quick kiss bursts but she kept refusing a hard makeout. After we were done I told her I would drive her back to my car but we would stop at my place first so she could see the guitar I told her I played all night.

What happened both times
- you met her out
- had a good date
- increased the sexual tension
- started the foreplay before you got the sex location

Ideally, you want to juggle
- meet her out
- have a good date
- increase the sexual tension
- only release the sexual tension at YOUR place when you can finish the job.

She knows you want to fuck her, badly.
She's just not comfortable with that yet and wants to get to know you better. That's what the lunch date was for.

Plenty of ways to play it, but trying to go for a hardcore make out when you can't go all the way is typically a mistake.

Chicks are very funny about "place". Like you can meet a girl and have a hardcore make out on a dance floor. But the second she goes to the bar, she is a different person. "What happens on the dance floor...stays in Vegas"

Hardcore PDA with a chick you just met is ballsy, but this time it didn't work for you.

WIA

Quote: (08-12-2016 02:32 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Plenty of ways to play it, but trying to go for a hardcore make out when you can't go all the way is typically a mistake.

Chicks are very funny about "place". Like you can meet a girl and have a hardcore make out on a dance floor. But the second she goes to the bar, she is a different person. "What happens on the dance floor...stays in Vegas"

Hardcore PDA with a chick you just met is ballsy, but this time it didn't work for you.

WIA

Bringing it back to the ol' "First date bang" recipe. Truth right here.

It also sounds to me like you were giving too much pull and not enough push, chasing her down and continually going for the makeout so to speak. It's important to be in tune with her comfort levels and pull away from a kiss before she does, leaving her wanting more and feeling like she's chasing you. Throw in a "that's all you get for now" if you want to get back to the roots of PUA.

If you miss that opportunity and she does pull away first you can generally recover with a fake kiss and pull away - grab the back of her neck, fingers up in hair which puts her into submissive mode, lean in but not too close, look her in the eyes, down to lips back to eyes then pull away, chuckle, and slap her ass.