Between the latest ROK article and Mcqueens post about keepers I have been thinking a bit about relationship game. I did some searching and most of the advice that I got was along the lines of "be a dick." I have been dating a girl for about 8 months now and I've had good results with being alpha; taking the lead by setting up dates, being a bit more dominant in the bedroom, and generally being the man of the relationship in the traditional sense.

I am a young guy who is inexperienced with relationships lasting longer then a couple months and wanted to ask some of the older guys with a bit more experience what has worked for them. Obviously you don't want to bait and switch the girl by being an aloof charmer during the courtship phase only to turn into a clingy insecure man child after a few months. Where is the happy medium here between showing affection by doing nice things or being more classically romantic and maintaining the alpha frame that landed you the girl in the first place?

I've been in two long term relationships, one for about 3 years on for about 5 years.

Be a man, dont put up with bullshit, and always be willing to walk away. That's really all there is to it.

http://www.rooshv.com/top-15-game-tips-f...ationships

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/08/1...game-week/

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/08/2...-thoughts/

Pay attention to the second link by Roissy. The underlying message of that post is that there is a delicate balance of push-pull going on when you're in a relationship. There is also a delicate balance of chaos and stability.

My preferred set up is having a few girls that are there for a few months while acquiring new girls at my own pace. The longest a girl has stuck around before I notice a significant change in behaviour that signals she no longer wants to see me is about 8-12 months. I do great in the first few months when their emotions are running high, I push a lot, using the techniques from the first link. I tease her, I instill dread, I am non-commital etc, but I also get stuck in that routine and have too much stability. We'll get into a routine. She comes over, we fuck, we eat and watch a movie. OR we hit up a bar with friends then fuck. Even if she falls in love with you there will be a point when she realizes you'll never meet her needs and she will leave.

The girlfriend I had just before finding this part of the internet was the girl who I 'pulled' too much and was way too boring with her. We'd hang out every day doing the same thing. Eventually she got bored fucked a few asshole alpha types and has currently settled down with a dude in the middle. With my most recent long term girl I pushed her too far away. She was a sweet EE girl and I treated her most of the time like a western girl. She got sick of it and found herself a more 'traditional' man.

Theres only so much "push" a girl can take before she finally lets go. There's only so much "pull" a girl will put up with before she finds you too needy. Theres only so much "chaos" a girl will put up with before she seeks stability, just as there is only so much "stability" a girl will be content with until she wants more excitement.

Thats easy.

Bang her often and Bang her good.

Quote: (08-17-2013 02:04 PM)neanderthal Wrote:  

Thats easy.

Bang her often and Bang her good.

Haha, spoken like a true male feminist

Quote: (08-17-2013 11:13 AM)WesternCancer Wrote:  

http://www.rooshv.com/top-15-game-tips-f...ationships

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/08/1...game-week/

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/08/2...-thoughts/

Pay attention to the second link by Roissy. The underlying message of that post is that there is a delicate balance of push-pull going on when you're in a relationship. There is also a delicate balance of chaos and stability.

My preferred set up is having a few girls that are there for a few months while acquiring new girls at my own pace. The longest a girl has stuck around before I notice a significant change in behaviour that signals she no longer wants to see me is about 8-12 months. I do great in the first few months when their emotions are running high, I push a lot, using the techniques from the first link. I tease her, I instill dread, I am non-commital etc, but I also get stuck in that routine and have too much stability. We'll get into a routine. She comes over, we fuck, we eat and watch a movie. OR we hit up a bar with friends then fuck. Even if she falls in love with you there will be a point when she realizes you'll never meet her needs and she will leave.

The girlfriend I had just before finding this part of the internet was the girl who I 'pulled' too much and was way too boring with her. We'd hang out every day doing the same thing. Eventually she got bored fucked a few asshole alpha types and has currently settled down with a dude in the middle. With my most recent long term girl I pushed her too far away. She was a sweet EE girl and I treated her most of the time like a western girl. She got sick of it and found herself a more 'traditional' man.

Theres only so much "push" a girl can take before she finally lets go. There's only so much "pull" a girl will put up with before she finds you too needy. There's only so much "chaos" a girl will put up with before she seeks stability, just as there is only so much "stability" a girl will be content with until she wants more excitement.

Thank you for this. I hadn't thought to check Rooshs actual blog in my search. I haven't read much Roissy but those links are really helpful, as was your personal experience. I'll throw in some of this stuff with my girl and report back on how it has worked for me. I've tried one or two things already with positive results, namely more unpredictable contact/texting.

I've had two fairly long relationships (both 2+ years) since getting into this part of the Internet. Gaming for a high score is exciting and I commend the people who can do it for protracted periods of time. For a number of lifestyle and personal reasons I won't get into here, I tend to gravitate toward serial monogamy and lack the patience to keep a lot of plates spinning at once while I'm at a desk ~60 hours a week and on call for another 20. That said, I don't think my situation is uncommon and a lot of guys are in a similar position of wishing they could go out more and harder than they do.

Old Roissy (pre-2010) had the best posts on this. Roosh has had some as well, but I believe there were more from Roissy. He had some good tips about getting disinterested when your partner acts inappropriately. I had one girl perform something that I considered a minor faux pas in a social situation - nobody else noticed, or if they did, they didn't care, but it bothered me. Rather than make a big deal out of it, the night carried on and the next morning I sent her a link to a book about manners with no explanation. Her apology followed.

While the level of direction and security each girl needs will vary, the best medium I've found is to just treat her as a kind of traveling companion to your life. Do the things you were going to do anyway. Go to restaurants you wanted to check out - which is easy now that you have a person you're reasonably sure of having a good conversation with while you're there. Go see concerts to events you'd like to attend, but just buy a second ticket. Don't ask her for approval or say anything more than she has a commitment at the time and date of the event. Don't make a big deal out of it. You aren't doing these things for her - you're doing them for yourself and she's lucky to be there, doubly so if she's enhancing the experience with her presence (if you travel a lot, you know that eating alone at any place nicer than a Chipotle can be awkward). This mentality can lead to a better return on your investment than a traditional relationship, too. I've had girlfriends who would want to hang out and I'd tell them that they'd have to come with me to the gym that night if they wanted to see me. They obliged and, after a few months, looked better than they did when they started.

The point is that you can lead without being explicit in doing so. Women as a group tend to be better than men at picking up subtexts. They are likely to detect your leadership and appreciation of them without you having to verbalize it. If you have to be direct in saying "I'm doing this for you," it ruins the effect, and is actually kind of damaging - your independent actions have turned into a plea for approval. As I write this out, I now realize that this is largely coextensive with what Danger and Play wrote about lifestyle game. So check his blog out. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something similar from a different angle on Bold and Determined as well.

The existential crisis to worry about is not any individual relationship, but a crisis over relationships in general. You've done all this work to improve yourself mentally and physically, and for what - self-imposed exclusivity with one other person for an indeterminate (and possibly indefinite) period of time? Your big reward is one person who is going to change and deteriorate with time, and depending on your risk tolerance and views on relationships, possibly take half of your assets through divorce? That bigger question, rather than concerns about being sufficiently romantic yet in charge within any one relationship, should be your impediment to commitment.

Quote: (08-18-2013 03:35 PM)jdevoy Wrote:  

This mentality can lead to a better return on your investment than a traditional relationship, too. I've had girlfriends who would want to hang out and I'd tell them that they'd have to come with me to the gym that night if they wanted to see me. They obliged and, after a few months, looked better than they did when they started.

Brilliant.

Never discount the power of a good smack on the ass in a traditionally inappropriate setting, like church or in the middle of the checkout line at the store. Follow it up with a subtle smirk.

There need not be a reason for it all the time. Sometimes just a public and slightly dominant show of ownership helps.

Also, if you live together, dont feel the need to let her set the times you go to bed or wake up. This may seem like a minor thing, but it helps. You are in a relationship or marriage with her because she adds value to your life, not to let her become like your mother. Go to bed and wake up when you choose to based on your schedule.

Quote: (08-18-2013 03:35 PM)jdevoy Wrote:  

I've had two fairly long relationships (both 2+ years) since getting into this part of the Internet. Gaming for a high score is exciting and I commend the people who can do it for protracted periods of time. For a number of lifestyle and personal reasons I won't get into here, I tend to gravitate toward serial monogamy and lack the patience to keep a lot of plates spinning at once while I'm at a desk ~60 hours a week and on call for another 20. That said, I don't think my situation is uncommon and a lot of guys are in a similar position of wishing they could go out more and harder than they do.

Old Roissy (pre-2010) had the best posts on this. Roosh has had some as well, but I believe there were more from Roissy. He had some good tips about getting disinterested when your partner acts inappropriately. I had one girl perform something that I considered a minor faux pas in a social situation - nobody else noticed, or if they did, they didn't care, but it bothered me. Rather than make a big deal out of it, the night carried on and the next morning I sent her a link to a book about manners with no explanation. Her apology followed.

While the level of direction and security each girl needs will vary, the best medium I've found is to just treat her as a kind of traveling companion to your life. Do the things you were going to do anyway. Go to restaurants you wanted to check out - which is easy now that you have a person you're reasonably sure of having a good conversation with while you're there. Go see concerts to events you'd like to attend, but just buy a second ticket. Don't ask her for approval or say anything more than she has a commitment at the time and date of the event. Don't make a big deal out of it. You aren't doing these things for her - you're doing them for yourself and she's lucky to be there, doubly so if she's enhancing the experience with her presence (if you travel a lot, you know that eating alone at any place nicer than a Chipotle can be awkward). This mentality can lead to a better return on your investment than a traditional relationship, too. I've had girlfriends who would want to hang out and I'd tell them that they'd have to come with me to the gym that night if they wanted to see me. They obliged and, after a few months, looked better than they did when they started.

The point is that you can lead without being explicit in doing so. Women as a group tend to be better than men at picking up subtexts. They are likely to detect your leadership and appreciation of them without you having to verbalize it. If you have to be direct in saying "I'm doing this for you," it ruins the effect, and is actually kind of damaging - your independent actions have turned into a plea for approval. As I write this out, I now realize that this is largely coextensive with what Danger and Play wrote about lifestyle game. So check his blog out. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something similar from a different angle on Bold and Determined as well.

The existential crisis to worry about is not any individual relationship, but a crisis over relationships in general. You've done all this work to improve yourself mentally and physically, and for what - self-imposed exclusivity with one other person for an indeterminate (and possibly indefinite) period of time? Your big reward is one person who is going to change and deteriorate with time, and depending on your risk tolerance and views on relationships, possibly take half of your assets through divorce? That bigger question, rather than concerns about being sufficiently romantic yet in charge within any one relationship, should be your impediment to commitment.

This was an excellent post, well written and thought provoking. The final paragraph is particularly important and something I've had to struggle with over the last 10 years or so. Really only because I realized I'd built up something to lose money and career-wise, and continued to see so many nightmare divorces where the men were raped. The first step was that I lost my desire to get married. But I didn't figure out the game part really until I started getting into the forum. Now that I want to have kids, it's a pretty tricky situation. Clearly I would prefer to never get married in the US or the UK, given how misandrist those societies have become and also how cruel and sadistic the divorce laws treat men. But at then end of the day the goal still is to find someone who I like enough to have kids with, and I need to learn "relationship game" to do that.

I was also a bit of a 'serial monogamist' right up into my late 30s and it completely inhibited my game. I would actually feel really guilty about talking to other girls once I'd made up my mind that I'd found a girlfriend, even just after a few weeks or months, occasionally pre-bang! Looking back, it was just insane, sort of like putting everything on black and spinning the wheel for you life and everything just one time. But that's the overriding social message to most men in today's Western societies, and when you see all your friends doing it and social circles changing, and your parents pushing you, it can easily seem like something you need to do.

I still managed to do ok jumping from girlfriend to girlfriend for years and years, but now I see how it stunted my personal development. By that I mean if you've got the Beta relationship mentality (even only say 50% of it's Beta), you're just bound to get into so much trouble, which is compounded if you get married. The deck is just too stacked against you to do anything other than kow-tow to the standard "white knight' party line. I can't tell you how many guys I know who've been divorced by their wives when the wives were cheating, or using them, or didn't take care of themselves and went to sh*t and then didn't have sex with them for months on end. I'm talking guys who were great fathers & providers, who spend 60-70 hours per week in an office job killing themselves to put food on the table for their families. Pretty depressing stuff really, but I will promise you that I will never be one of those guys. And I think just living your life as you wanted to, and sort of having the partner along for the ride, is a good way to go about it.

Quote:Quote:

This was an excellent post, well written and thought provoking. The final paragraph is particularly important and something I've had to struggle with over the last 10 years or so. Really only because I realized I'd built up something to lose money and career-wise, and continued to see so many nightmare divorces where the men were raped. The first step was that I lost my desire to get married. But I didn't figure out the game part really until I started getting into the forum. Now that I want to have kids, it's a pretty tricky situation. Clearly I would prefer to never get married in the US or the UK, given how misandrist those societies have become and also how cruel and sadistic the divorce laws treat men. But at then end of the day the goal still is to find someone who I like enough to have kids with, and I need to learn "relationship game" to do that.

I was also a bit of a 'serial monogamist' right up into my late 30s and it completely inhibited my game. I would actually feel really guilty about talking to other girls once I'd made up my mind that I'd found a girlfriend, even just after a few weeks or months, occasionally pre-bang! Looking back, it was just insane, sort of like putting everything on black and spinning the wheel for you life and everything just one time. But that's the overriding social message to most men in today's Western societies, and when you see all your friends doing it and social circles changing, and your parents pushing you, it can easily seem like something you need to do.

I still managed to do ok jumping from girlfriend to girlfriend for years and years, but now I see how it stunted my personal development. By that I mean if you've got the Beta relationship mentality (even only say 50% of it's Beta), you're just bound to get into so much trouble, which is compounded if you get married. The deck is just too stacked against you to do anything other than kow-tow to the standard "white knight' party line. I can't tell you how many guys I know who've been divorced by their wives when the wives were cheating, or using them, or didn't take care of themselves and went to sh*t and then didn't have sex with them for months on end. I'm talking guys who were great fathers & providers, who spend 60-70 hours per week in an office job killing themselves to put food on the table for their families. Pretty depressing stuff really, but I will promise you that I will never be one of those guys. And I think just living your life as you wanted to, and sort of having the partner along for the ride, is a good way to go about it.

Well said. Even if it was possible to have a good marriage that never led to divorce in this country I don't think I would even want to raise my children in America. The media and culture will absolutely pollute them, and if you are even able to teach them well so they don't get polluted, they will still have to live in a morally polluted country.

Perhaps the answer would be to relocate to a country where the divorce laws are favorable, the women worthy, and the culture not so polluted.

I've been in a lot of long term relationships. I guess I can say I'm a serial monogamist.

Roissy's delicate balance of push/pull during LTR dating is very important. These however, are tips that you should be incorporating into your personality for every interaction, not just your relationship.

My own advice that has worked very well for me and left a lot of disappointed women in my wake when I leave them:

1. Abundance mentality: This is the idea that you can leave her and easily find another girl of comparable or better quality. If this isn't the case, then you need to hit the gym, get a better job, etc. Basically be the very best that you can be. Desirable men are always moving up in quality. Don't stagnate or else she will leave you. You will need to focus the majority of your energy outside of the relationship.

2. One foot in/one foot out: Ties in with point 1, if she leaves you you need to be mentally prepared. Yes, it will suck but it doesn't suck as much knowing that you've been out and about talking with various other women while working on yourself. Again focus your energies on improving yourself and the like. A girlfriend is a reward for your hard work.

3. Maintaining a "man" frame. What women want and desire falls onto a bell curve. The majority of women in the middle want a man to lead, take charge, and pass their shit tests. You can never lose your frame or being a man. She will push and push and push. Obviously pick your battles, but there are certain shit tests that you must NEVER fail or acquiesce on. These are matters of self preservation. NEVER EVER EVER FAIL ONE OF THESE SHIT TESTS! IF YOU GET ANYTHING FROM THIS POST DO NOT EVER FAIL ONE OF THESE!

Matters of self preservation include work, home, money, food, etc. Things that directly impact your quality of life. My girlfriend who is soon to be my live in girlfriend constantly is making demands of how the house should be set up, what type of car we should get, what furniture to buy, etc.

I refuse to let her dictate my opinion in these matters. My castle is my home and how I live my life has been extremely effective up until this point. I've told my girlfriend that I am the final arbiter for any and all decisions made on furniture, the layout of the apartment, what car I drive, where I live, and what I do.

It helps I make slightly more money than her and that I foot the bill for things that she likes. Like my car. Until this changes and she can afford to pay for it, my decisions stand. (she hates spending her own money).

Your home is your castle, a sanctum of clarity in a world of insanity. Letting a woman make decisions that affect your castle will put you into the slippery slope of betahood.

I think the best advice for relationships is get 'em while they're young. Train them in to your type of love(whether it be multiple girls, gang bangs, monogamy, sex toy shit, whatever) and be a strict mother fucker. The whole "be a dick" thing is only half right -- you need to be a dick in the right places and times. There are times that you can fall asleep in the arms of each other....make sure it's after a good round of your balls slamming her anus.

Resurrecting this thread to do a little "fusion" of ideas:

Some of you might be familiar with Long Game, as described by Krauser. Google it if you want details, but the TL;DR of it is, as he puts it:

Quote:Quote:

When a girl or situation is unfavourable to closing in the usual fashion, put her into a patient holding pattern from which you gradually suck her into chasing you, and then close her when favourable conditions emerge.

Now usually, guys use Long Game in the following scenarios:

1) When he, she, or both of them meet while traveling, or
2) When she's in a relationship that she won't step out of ... yet.
(In both cases, she has to be hot enough to be worth the Long Game effort - few girls are.)

But, notice something in the first scenario that's missing in the second?

That's right, you can use Long Game in this scenario too:

3) When YOU'RE in a relationship.

I won't debate the morals of that, that's ultimately up to you - just as your application of any Game knowledge is. I'm just offering a new way of using an old tool.

I'd like to bring back this topic as I see that there is a big LTR niche in game community. I still haven't read anything in depth about long term relationships ie mainly things like..

- Starting LTR the right way, how to screen the girl for LTR, what to focus on, what be aware of, etc
- Introducing the natural dynamic from the start where proper gender roles are set and established
- Maintaining those dynamics over long period of time
- Handling challenges your woman comes up with and dealing with her shit in general
- Staying cool, fit, smart and masculine despite the urges to let go
- Going through tough situations [health issues, money problems, annoying families, mental issues, distance, moving, etc]
- Leading your woman the right way so that she stays good, fit, smart and feminine
- Keeping sex hot and fulfilling
- Getting rid of chaos and bringing back order in your relationship

I once wrote something short about what I know but that's nothing deep and new really. I find this topic much more interesting than. Even from pure game standpoint it's way more challenging to have an attractive woman and keep it together the right way. I've always been relationship type of a guy, short/long term but still, always preferred to focus on one hot/classy girl and turn her from a girl to my girl.

I like some of Patrice O'Neil stuff but the thing is, he was an extreme guy so his advice reflects that extreme personality which often times doesn't apply to regular men and normal relationships. For example, he was a swinger, he let his women banging other men, he booked 2 separate rooms in hotels on vacations with his woman [really dude?], etc, so I don't take his stuff fully seriously.

I like the 3rd chapter of "Pinciples" ebook but it's all about punishment/reward thing. The book "The way of superior man" is also rather vague and principle based, nothing too specific.

I'd like to hear out you guys who are experienced with relationships [short/long term], your stories, conclusions and tips, regarding those crucial points above.

After I have caught the attention of a young woman, I simply look into her eyes (and if I am feeling the vibe I will take her hand) and ask her, ¨What is your name?¨ After she tells me, I pause and wait for her to ask me my name (I do NOT tell a girl my name first). If she asks my name it is game on. If she does not ask me my name, I gently drop her hand and walk away. If she pursues me after I turn and walk away, which normally she does not, I will reset and when I am speaking with her I will purposefully use her name (as it is one of the sweetest sounds to her) two or three times. If she is feeling the vibe and asking me questions, but my name was not one of questions, I make an instant-date and go for the zero date bang. If she asks my name, I will get her number and if there was no zero date bang, I will give her another opportunity.

With 99% of my LTR´s, whom I initially met between the ages of 18-29, this singular action of her telling me her name, holding my hand and maintaining eye contact, correlated as to whether or not they would be a more positive, lower-drag LTR. I have done this a huge number of times over almost four decades.

When you act as the man from the beginning, your frame is tested less than if you did not start from the beginning (although it will be tested). Maintaining the dynamic has been easier for me over time, it is simply a part of who I am and the things that I have added (while practicing game) along the way get blended in.

Going through tough issues is where the rubber meets the road and where I can draw a distinction between those LTR´s with whom I would consider having offspring and those whom I would not. To me it is part of moving from inspiring me to romance to inspiring me to fulfill my purpose. The main trait is their willingness to sacrifice for me. It is not be deep sacrifice as men view it (but it will deepen as the woman applies it to your offspring). I look for how they use their time in relation to my life. It may start out simple such as making a food I like (but this can also be used as a hook), taking care of simple chores like house cleaning, cooking, your laundry, going to the store to get a part while I am working on a project in my life so that I can focus on things that I deem more important like my purpose. At first I may ask them (but I do not ask plates because with plates I am looking for the movement from inspiring me to sex and inspiring me to romance) on occasion for a hand and then I look to see how much they do it on their own without being prompted by me. If this evolves positively as time goes by, then they are moving toward inspiring me.

I honestly do not have any urges to let go unless they become more drag than lift or they fail to inspire me; and the two are related. The lift drag issue becomes one of how much drag. When there is more drag than lift it is past time to cut them loose. I have a personal rule that on the first major issue (within a month or a few months), I take a minimum of 24 hours away from them (even if cohabitating) and examine my actions to determine if my frame is lacking or I did something unnecessary to set them off. Frame is the main thread that runs through my big three (Looks, Status, Game); thread-44508...id1277854.

I then recalibrate and head back. When it happens the second time, I take a minimum of an additional 48 hours, with the third time, I take a minimum of 72 hours and sometimes up to a week. If it has happened more than 3 times either I am not recalibrating correctly and I will go spend a little time with a trusted friend (even if she and I are not cohabitating) or something is very wrong on her end (the case the vast majority of the time). How many times you want to do this depends on how you value her. For me someone who inspires me to sex (a plate), it is one time (maybe), for someone who inspires me to romance (and LTR) it is two times (could be three depending on how many years of history and her movement toward self-sacrifice), for someone who inspires me to fulfill my purpose, it is at least three times (in a relative time period, 1 month, 90 days (my preference for LTR´s less than 1 year), 6 months (my preference for LTR´s less than 3 years), 1 year (my preference for LTR´s with more than 5 years) and I reset the time period unless the same issues re-occur). These are some of my examples and for your reference as your standards should be hammered like a sword on an anvil as you continuously refold the metal and your sword becomes stronger.

My LTR´s are involved in some of my activities either directly or indirectly, so they tag along (33%) of the time or are doing it parallel with me. If it is less than 33% I pay attention, unless there are multiple LTR´s (which is my norm). An example on a basic level would be eating meals. If I do not have one meal per day with a cohabitating LTR, then I get be concerned because this type of action seems to be minimal maintenance.

Guys may not want to hear this, but my sex is hotter with one of my LTR´s when I have a plate spinning, changing plates also benefits me and my LTR relationship. I want guys to understand that I am not a believer in monogamy in today´s world even in Latin America or the Far East. Although I believe that it may be possible for others in those types of locations. If you believe differently, do not change your believes quickly, rather like the analogy above, use the hammer and the anvil continuously as you refold the metal in your sword. It is possible to break the sword if the metals are lacking, the fire is not sufficient or the force used to strike the blows are weak.

Quote: (08-17-2013 11:13 AM)WesternCancer Wrote:  

Theres only so much "push" a girl can take before she finally lets go. There's only so much "pull" a girl will put up with before she finds you too needy. Theres only so much "chaos" a girl will put up with before she seeks stability, just as there is only so much "stability" a girl will be content with until she wants more excitement.

This is a brilliant summary of the pain in the ass and effort that a LTR is.

Its hard work, and requires constant vigilance to maintain.

Quote: (04-24-2016 03:05 PM)NASA Test Pilot Wrote:  

After I have caught the attention of a young woman, I simply look into her eyes (and if I am feeling the vibe I will take her hand) and ask her, ¨What is your name?¨ After she tells me, I pause and wait for her to ask me my name (I do NOT tell a girl my name first). If she asks my name it is game on. If she does not ask me my name, I gently drop her hand and walk away. If she pursues me after I turn and walk away, which normally she does not, I will reset and when I am speaking with her I will purposefully use her name (as it is one of the sweetest sounds to her) two or three times. If she is feeling the vibe and asking me questions, but my name was not one of questions, I make an instant-date and go for the zero date bang. If she asks my name, I will get her number and if there was no zero date bang, I will give her another opportunity.

You made me realize how sad it is that I sometimes forget how simple it can be. Thx

XXL you dropped some very solid and actionable advice a few months back that is quite applicable to this thread's discussion.

Applicable steps to have the upper hand:

Quote: (02-17-2016 09:32 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Express who you are and what you like/dislike openly. Even before you even get a sense if what you're about to tell her might put her off. Doesn't matter what she thinks of that. If she likes YOU she will adapt. At least at first.

Make your girl earn your affection. Fight with entitlement issues aka that expectation that you're suppose to be this or that just because she is your girlfriend. Do not lecture her saying it out loud like "honey you have to earn my love...". That's lame. Show don't tell. She's nice, lovely and good to you then be more affectionate, caring and cool, be super good to her. When she's a bitch for no valid reason then be more cold and uncaring. Emotional distance is the hardest punishment for women, they can't function when you their emotions don't affect you. However, assess correctly WHY she acts in a certain way cause sometimes it might be your fault why she's a bitch to you.

Call her out on every bullshit that you notice. Every little thing. Point is, some of her bullshit will be so subtle that you will not even recognize so it's important that you react to things that you do notice. Even little things like.. she has that ugly demanding tone now asking you for something whereas before she was using pleasant tone. It seems small but if you don't react to that shit fast it will become a standard. It's those daily power games [shittests?]. Power corrupts. If give your girl too much power and she will abuse it for sure.

To quote fat ass Patrice: happiness happen is when she starts to think "ok is this righteous what I'm getting ready to do? Am i asking my man a righteous question?" So she goes.. "hold up, this is some bullshit manipulative girl shit, I'm not gonna ask him that cause this asshole is gonna make me suffer for asking bullshit".

Always have some other girls available to you. What you do about them while you're with her is your personal choice but let your girl feel that other pussies are circling around. Jealousy is huge attraction switch. Even little things like waitress flirting with you can trigger it hard, or her friends telling her how cool you are. That will stick in the back of her mind at all times. Nothing makes you a prize more than having other options at hand. The power then is in you CHOOSING her over them instead of sticking to her out of fear and scarcity.

Teach her how to be YOUR girlfriend. Not a gf but your gf. Basically lead her into your world. You like to eat this, live like this, fuck like this, etc. Tell her what she looks best in, what you like her to wear, how you like to her act, etc. Be the leader, her daddy, her teacher. The more she changes and invests into your way the more she yours and the less she is "herself" if you know what I mean. And don't make an excuse that you're not high status enough to do, that's bullshit, broke abusive assholes train their girls like dogs everyday. It's all about confidence and illusion of power. Read "48 Laws of Power", a lot of it is applicable in relationship too.

It's not about not caring per se. If you didn't care she would never even be open to you in the first place. It's more like you're happy on your own before you meet her for some reason that has nothing to do with her. Then she just becomes your GF and she either adds something positive to your life or not. Whatever happens you're good on your own. Your life will not end or stop just because she does something wrong or when you leaves you. Focus most of your attention on your own life goals dreams and desires and add her presence to the mix. She's in? Cool. She's out? Oh well. Your life goes on on its own.

That is the proper source of that indifference, uncaring attitude that everybody talks about. Guys just repeat "just don't care, just be cool" thinking that by being disengaged or ignoring girls they are oh so aloof and attractive. That's only a short term trick like a game routine meant to generate short burst of attraction. The proper solid way is when you're focused on bigger picture things in your life, you move toward something important TO YOU and you adjust everything else to it.

Just posting a possibly-redundant relationship Game tip (call it a reminder if you know it already) -

Sometimes the current girl will text me beta bait, something along the lines of "I'm feeling down, please help."

I always respond at my convenience with something self-amusingly funny that doesn't actually help. My reason? If she wants beta, she's got to at least get it in person.

All you need:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixt...s-of-poon/

@Designate: I just posted what I know but unfortunately what I know is still limited, a drop in the ocean to be honest.

@mexgorilla: Read it. All I need? Please waaaay too basic.


I can't help it, I'm just way more interested in what happens between a man and a woman AFTER the first sex.

It's no secret women are solipsistic. As such, they believe the world revolves around them. Unfortunately, this delusion extends into thinking relationships by design are about catering to the desires of the woman at the expense of a man. This assumption, however misguided, is lent "credibility" through its persistent promotion in mainstream media. What is the net effect of this societal brainwashing? Relationships become a decidedly female game, in which they have an undeniable advantage, a "house edge".

What do I mean by house edge? Here's a good description:

"The entity that sets the rules and controls the play of any gambling game is known as the “House.” The House earns money by having a winning advantage known as the “House Edge” built into every game."

In the case of relationships, that entity is a woman. If relationships were a man's game, women would learn to become what is most attractive to us instead of the other way around. Women would (at bare minimum) keep themselves looking thin with long hair, have pleasant personalities and a low (or nonexistent) notch count. Our reality, unfortunately, is seemingly quite the opposite as evidenced by the abundance of fat, short-haired miserable sluts running around ironically thinking they "deserve" men of the highest caliber.

Gambling can be fun, but it's important to remember no one wins indefinitely. The odds simply aren't in your favor. Isn't it better to sit down at a poker table, play a few hands and quit while you're ahead rather than play 'til the house inevitably takes back all your money? Sound familiar? It should. How much better is it to meet a woman, bang and enjoy her company while she's still sweet (and they all act sweet in the beginning) but leave once you've reached a point of diminishing return rather than try in vain to appease her for a lifetime only to end up losing half (or more) of your shit in divorce court?

What I love about spinning plates is having options. As the saying goes, a man who has options can't be hurt by a woman. If you're playing the field and a girl you're talking to acts in a way you find annoying, dump her. If she tries to play games to make you jealous, don't chase her, replace her. But in being party to a long-term relationship or marriage, a man (if he takes his relationship seriously and doesn't cheat) forfeits his mentality of abundance (which is automatically more attractive to women) and adopts of mentality of scarcity ("she's the only one") which she will eventually sense and paradoxically resent. You can try to fight the good fight to maintain frame but it will be like swimming upstream, especially once children are involved and she's fully aware of the leverage she has over you. Trying to keep a woman interested for a lifetime is truly a fool's errand. Even if she starts out legitimately loving you, the financial perks of leaving you at some point (sizable share of marital assets, alimony and/or child support) are too good not to at least be considered.

Any dealings with women can be considered gambling. I quote Friedrich Nietzche, ""The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything." But it's only when we consider the prospect of marriage that we fully put ourselves at risk. For if a woman is truly the entity who sets up the "house rules" in the gambling game of marriage, then divorce is her built-in winning advantage, her house edge.

I've seen this meme floating around:

[attachment=31515]

But I think this phrasing rings more truthful:

[attachment=31516]

Spinning plates is a man's game but relationships belong to women.

Quote: (05-12-2016 10:54 PM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  

Relationships become a decidedly female game, in which they have an undeniable advantage, a "house edge".

What do I mean by house edge? Here's a good description:

"The entity that sets the rules and controls the play of any gambling game is known as the “House.” The House earns money by having a winning advantage known as the “House Edge” built into every game."

I respectfully disagree 100 PERCENT. True woman's game is mating dance aka that first few weeks where she's still not fully "sold" on the guy who's courting her. She's still skeptical, thinking more rationally, playing hard to get, luring guy with her goods, trying to extract as much as possible to give something back, looking for excuses NOT TO get intimate, etc. That's woman's true domain.

But..

Once she sleeps with the guy a couple of times, the chemistry is boiling, they have a good time together, sex life is great and dude's stays cool, etc, then she loses all of that "power". She starts falling in love. That's when social dynamic between them flips. She becomes his little girl, he becomes the man of "house" so to speak. From that moment it's man's game. As long as he can actually be "the man" in the relationship he has the proverbial upper hand, he's in charge, he leads, he's her man. And this is when it becomes super fucking interesting, meaning how a man can take it from there the right way.

Quote: (05-12-2016 10:54 PM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  

In the case of relationships, that entity is a woman. If relationships were a man's game, women would learn to become what is most attractive to us instead of the other way around. Women would (at bare minimum) keep themselves looking thin with long hair, have pleasant personalities and a low (or nonexistent) notch count. Our reality, unfortunately, is seemingly quite the opposite as evidenced by the abundance of fat, short-haired miserable sluts running around ironically thinking they "deserve" men of the highest caliber.

That's the whole point of what I talk about. Women DO keep themselves looking thin with long hair, have pleasant personalities for their man IF he's not lazy and he righteously expect it. Women are "fat, short-haired miserable sluts" cause they don't have a man in their life. That's the thing. That's one of man's full time job in relationship, to guide his girl to become better person than she is now. It's not that hard knowing that every girl wants to feel beautiful and sexy for her man. But a man has to teach her how to be his girlfriend, not a girlfriend, HIS girlfriend. As long as she's attracted and comfortable with a man she will follow his guidance cause that's her main source of validation. Every girl I was in relationship with asked what to cook/eat, what to wear, where would I like to go, etc. Of course they had their own opinions and wishes but the mere fact that they asked me first about my opinion was a clear sign that they cared about my approval/opinion/thoughts.

Men are very wrong when they want to meet the perfect girl who already is what they want her to be. It's completely unrealistic. They meet a girl and then complain that she's not how they like her to be but they didn't do anything to help her. Of course she will get off track, of course she will let herself loose, become fat, make a idiotic tattoo, wear flip flops, etc, without any guidance from a man of course she will do all that shit. If a girl is in relationship with a man and she does all that shit it's his fault, not hers. Apparently he let her do it. That's already too late.

This is why men have waaaaaay more power in relationship than they have in courting phase as long as they try as hard to maintain it as they try to just get laid.

I appreciate your feedback and do agree with you on certain points. However, I still stand by what I wrote.

It seems you are operating under a belief that sex is a complete game changer for women. That once a woman has sex with a man she's already helplessly on the road to "falling in love". I have to disagree. Maybe that's how it worked in decades past, but nowadays many women regard sex as nothing more than a mutually pleasurable genital massage. Also, I think it's a bit naive to believe you're the only man she's sleeping with during those early days of courtship. Will a woman feel closer to a man she's slept with than one she has not? Of course. But your example neglects to take into account the very real possibility she's sleeping with more than one man at a time. By your logic, is she falling in love with ALL of these men?

Yes, it's true. There is no such thing as the "perfect" woman. However, I'm not in the makeover business. I realize you'll have to put "work" into any woman you're with, but anyone who has had any experience dealing with the opposite sex, or people in general, will know how hard it is to get people to truly change. It may be easy to persuade someone but it's certainly difficult to keep them in that persuasion. Even if a woman seems to go along with your wishes and adopt the appearance/behavioral standards you deem acceptable, in time, your attempts at control will likely breed a covert resentment. This resentment could ultimately rear its ugly head in divorce court.

I agree with you, a man should be a man and lead his woman. But even if he does as he should, there are, of course, no guarantees in life she'll continue following his lead forever. After all, "changing her mind is a woman's prerogative," right? Women are hypergamous and thus always looking for the bigger, better deal. At no point is a man ever "safe" in a relationship and whatever position of power he believes he holds is often temporary not permanent. Once again, this has a parallel with my gambling example. The longer you play, the better chance you'll lose. That's why I've advocated spinning plates over LTRs/marriage. The spinning of plates is more like betting a little bit on many hands than everything you've got on one.

Are there still women of quality left in the world? Of course. Can you "train" some of these women to be more accommodating to you in relationships? Absolutely. But are the odds against you? Without question. Feminists/women's rights activists have lobbied various state and federal institutions to help ensure the deck is legally stacked in their favor. Hence my "house edge" analogy. If you end up in court with a woman, you're likely going to lose. Since a woman doesn't even need a reason to divorce a man nowadays thanks to "no fault" divorce laws, all that's required is for her to one day change her mind...and I think we all know how fickle women can be.