Quote:Quote:

You have the benefit of hindsight because the video ended without the bum throwing a punch.

So, for arguments sake, we'll put you in the shoes of the beta.
Do you flash/draw when the bum is screaming at you from ten feet?
Do you flash/draw when the bum is advancing on you aggressively?
Do you flash/draw when the bum is over the top of you shouting full spectrum hepatitis spit into your eyes?
Do you attempt to flash/draw in the split second it takes for the bum, now at nose to nose distance, to smash his AIDS infected scabrous knuckles into your now mangled eye socket?

If you are not willing to flash/draw pre-emptively in a situation like this then you should not be carrying a gun at all, because unless you're planning on doing a Zimmerman then your gun is going to end up the property of some homeless lunatic.

Carrying a gun is the epitome of the fundamental right to go about your business without being accosted by human trash, and in that regard an armed society is a polite society. You draw early to prevent a fight, and if the lunatic insists you shoot them to avoid ending up in an infectious diseases ward.

There is literally no point to having the right both to self defense and to carry a firearm if you're not willing to use it in precisely this kind of situation.

p.s. I agree with avoiding dangerous and stupid places and situations, but large progressive cities fall entirely under that blanket so unless you're willing to move to the sticks then there's no such thing as 100% "avoiding bad situations".

Even early on in the video if I didn't know he didn't throw a punch i'd say the same. And drawing your gun in any of the situations you mention that's not going to go well for you unless he has a weapon himself.

From your post I assume little experience plus bravado which leads to "oh i'd draw my gun". Even for a punch that is overkill and you're going to get fucked in the ass.

Do you attempt to draw (whenever)? No not in this situation, that thought shows no experience, no capability, and the vibe of 'i'm trying to sound tough by saying i'll draw my gun'.. and that will get you into trouble in less serious situations. And a gun isn't an instant panacea for everything. If you have ZERO awareness, ZERO idea how to deal with the prefight or whatever your gun is pretty much useless. I don't have experience with guns I admit but I do with fights, i'm no Bruce Lee. The thing that was the most important for me is awareness and dealing with prefight. (Which suddenly having a gun doesn't negotiate the importance of this)

Controlling the distance, not letting him get in your face, reading him and whether he is going to attack, moving around to keep him off balance, not turning your back on him.. if you keep distance it's obvious if he covers it quickly that it's an attack and you can deal with it physically. In this case most likely push him back or something.. maybe a warning strike.

But pulling out your gun... either to threaten him or even worse SHOOT him.

"Sorry judge this skinny homeless man ran at me so I shot him 3 times". That will go down so well!

Quote: (04-06-2016 03:47 AM)cubanlinx Wrote:  

I'm not advocating some kind of kumbaya bullshit, but saying homeless people should be euthanized? Just throw that fucker some change and move.

I see what you are saying but I actually lost a girl doing this. It can appear to be a comfort building thing ("awe look at him he's so compassionate!") but you can come across as too nice doing it as well.

And was this in L.A? If so this doesn't surprise me at all. The West Coast has the world's most annoying homeless population. I have been chased down and threatened by bums before while I lived in both California and Washington State. Here on the East Coast they just ask for money and stop after the first 'no' and let you be.

Quote: (04-07-2016 06:53 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

Quote: (04-06-2016 03:47 AM)cubanlinx Wrote:  

I'm not advocating some kind of kumbaya bullshit, but saying homeless people should be euthanized? Just throw that fucker some change and move.

I see what you are saying but I actually lost a girl doing this. It can appear to be a comfort building thing ("awe look at him he's so compassionate!") but you can come across as too nice doing it as well.

And was this in L.A? If so this doesn't surprise me at all. The West Coast has the world's most annoying homeless population. I have been chased down and threatened by bums before while I lived in both California and Washington State. Here on the East Coast they just ask for money and stop after the first 'no' and let you be.

This was in New York.

When you have a gun, couldn't you shot in the air first?
First of all situation awareness. If it still happen, try to avoid it and de escalte. Move back in safe distance. Then you still can pull your gun, shout a warning, then a warning shot in the air. This crazy homeless guy is sure a pain in the ass and a burden for society. Maybe a crazy lunatic that will harm you. So be aware is the key. But do you have to shot him right away? Sure it will be good for society but when you go to prison for it, what do you gain by it? Keep your frame, go away. If the touch / punch you, respond with force.

And yeah I also hate these idiots filming and egging it on,making a show of it which is evidenced by the amount of videos of this guy harassing people. I looked through their channel and the best I can guess is they just find weirdos in the city and take videos of them.

They aren't as bad as the idiots yelling "WORLDSTAR" in videos though, I want those people to get punched during the fights!

Quote:Quote:

When you have a gun, couldn't you shot in the air first?

How's that going to go in the middle of the city? Same thing "judge I was in the city and this homeless man abused me and I shot my gun in the air". Again a massive use of force mismatch.

You can't shoot in the air. There are laws against that. Shoot in the air and it has to come down somewhere, and people could get killed.

The German police do warning shoots in the air. Or maybe in the ground. So a warning shoot would bring you more trouble then when you shoot someone? Not direct in this case, there its for sure out of hand. Remembers me about the situation when you cripple someone by accident. Its better to kill him then when this person lives and need medical care for the rest of his life, its more expensive.

This guy needs to take a long look in the mirror... after sending the homeless guy a thank you card. What dude needs to ask himself is "Why did this guy pick ME to harass? What about ME makes me a target?". He obviously wasn't looking to rob him or anything, so it wasn't like he took note of his clothes or his asian girlfriend. For some reason, he wanted to make this guy look like a bitch, and something tells me he wouldn't do the same thing to a dude that was obviously physically intimidating, or just carried himself like someone you wouldn't want to mess around with.

I watched a couple of other videos, and it's so interesting just seeing the kinds of guys he goes after. They're all weak men. It's not that he's going for "betas" or "cucks", and it's not that he's afraid of big physically intimidating guys. He's sniffing out weakness.

   

Look at guy on the ground. He's not going up to people randomly, he knows exactly who he can get into this position. TJ Miller there is probably bigger than the black guy sitting next to him, but that black guy is not asking for it. There's nothing particularly physically intimidating about him, but he doesn't carry himself like someone that Signs there would mess with.

He didn't mess with this guy either.

   

If you ask for the weak look, its about your physical appearance. I'm not talking about be tall, muscular and so on. Its more a confident appearance. Body language. Are your shoulders straight? Your chest out? Where does your look go? Down? To the side? Your hands running nervous over your body? Trough your hair? You play with something? You lick your lips? How about your voice? Soft? Never rise it? Everything sound like a maybe? A question? Such people look for victims, not for enemies. Are you confident? Are you aware of your own body? Can you stand up and voice your opinion? Or do you always try to please everyone?

A strong physic help for sure, but humans are more then the body. Authority isn't alone with muscles. Uniforms give some authority, status, a high position. There are only a few people out there, that still have this natural authority, this frame when you take away their social signs like a uniform. I'm not talking about a maniac where people go on distance because they feel the threat of violence. I talk about those people that have an aura of respect. Because of their body language, the way they speak and act. Confidence.

Quote: (04-06-2016 02:39 AM)natplayer Wrote:  

How would you have handled this situation?

Acting the way that bum did that towards a police officer can get you shot and the officer will be acquitted.

I don't see on what grounds it isn't legal for a civilian to rough up someone in the same situation. Same logic will justify it.

Dads - you nailed it, sadly bullies attack people they can intimidate.

@Md, I get what you're saying. I think it depends on how it comes off too. The successful or self assured guy giving because it's natural, or some guy who does it to impress another party.

Quote: (04-06-2016 05:08 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Agree with weambulance. If I'm with my girl there's no fucking way I ruin the mood by messing with a deranged.

Furthermore, I'm averse to anything dirty and smelly. If I even see him walking toward me I would just get up and leave. There's no way I'm touching that shit and stains my hands in the process.

There are plenty of times to be a tough guy but this is not it. Dont wanna get skin disease and or leprosy.

True, ask a cop how long it takes to get the stench of homless bums off of their hands when they have to handle them without gloves. Disgusting.

That said, if the guy was going to do anything at all, he should have done it when the bum was running his mouth - the brain can't make the switch from talking to fighting quickly enough. The beta cuck could have had the bum on the carpet instantly, with time to casually walk away before he even knew what hit him.

Seems like this bum is a real asshole though - makes a habit out of this kind of thing too.

Quote: (04-07-2016 06:55 AM)ArtofFighting Wrote:  

This was in New York.

Thanks, watched the video again and they did make mention.

Quote: (04-07-2016 11:01 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

That said, if the guy was going to do anything at all, he should have done it when the bum was running his mouth - the brain can't make the switch from talking to fighting quickly enough. The beta cuck could have had the bum on the carpet instantly, with time to casually walk away before he even knew what hit him.

Seems like this bum is a real asshole though - makes a habit out of this kind of thing too.

I agree with this. I would've done the same thing if I was with a girlfriend of mine. I think this whole bum's point was to make this man look weak in front of his girl. I'm not 100% sure if he would've done this if he were alone. But if he was riding solo and didn't invade his space I would've just walked away.

I would not have hit him because I wanted to impress the girl, I would've done it because a.) he invaded his and her personal space, b.) he disrespected the man in front of his girl to emasculate him, and c.) he was probably making others uncomfortable too. I know this forum preaches rationality and using violence as a last resort, but there are certain lines you don't cross.

Quote: (04-07-2016 02:30 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

In reality the beta dude actually did pretty good at avoiding conflict and diffusing the situation. Of course he didn't do that by his own design, it's in his nature.
You get a drunk homeless dude and a beta in a fight and between them they will probably sort something out because they're on the same wavelength.

Many of the best street fighters say their first step in street fighting is straight up avoiding the conflict.

Do you really want to KO a homeless guy? He wasn't throwing punches. I reckon standing up to him with direct eye contact would have shut him down. Beta guy stayed siting down too long.

Are you sure about that?

The beta spat in the tramps face.


A friend of mine got septicemia after he hit someone in the face. The mouth is full of bacteria etc.

The tramp deserved to get knocked out, but I would have qualms about having any close contact with a person like that.

I agree with the idea that he should have just left the situation, but that would have required more assertiveness than he was capable of.

I actually watched this video for the first time just now.

The homeless guy is just looking to cause trouble, I can assure you he isn't looking a fight.

The guy with his girlfriend is young, most young guys are very similar to him. He handled himself as best he could, so I wouldn't be too hard on him. I would bet alot of guys on here would have handled it the same way.

Nowadays, it is best to avoid fights period. It doesn't matter how tough you are or think you are, fighting is bad news.

Quote: (04-07-2016 01:06 PM)Lizard King Wrote:  

Quote: (04-07-2016 02:30 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

In reality the beta dude actually did pretty good at avoiding conflict and diffusing the situation. Of course he didn't do that by his own design, it's in his nature.
You get a drunk homeless dude and a beta in a fight and between them they will probably sort something out because they're on the same wavelength.

Many of the best street fighters say their first step in street fighting is straight up avoiding the conflict.

Do you really want to KO a homeless guy? He wasn't throwing punches. I reckon standing up to him with direct eye contact would have shut him down. Beta guy stayed siting down too long.

Are you sure about that?

The beta spat in the tramps face.


A friend of mine got septicemia after he hit someone in the face. The mouth is full of bacteria etc.

The tramp deserved to get knocked out, but I would have qualms about having any close contact with a person like that.

I agree with the idea that he should have just left the situation, but that would have required more assertiveness than he was capable of.

Yeah, be careful which bums you KO. This happened to a friend of mine also, he was leaving a liquor store and some bum was harassing him like this for money or something, and it quickly escalated into a fight. My friend punched the bum and easily knocked him out, but he also broke one of his knuckles on his teeth and may have gotten one of the bum's broken teeth stuck in his hand. It was a very ugly situation, his hand got infected (probably septicemia also) and he had to have several surgeries to repair and clean it out. Now he's got nerve damage and his hand/fingers still aren't 100% and probably never will be. SO what did he gain? For every punch you throw beware, there is a cost to your own health.

So even if you know you can wreck one of these vagrants it's really not worth it unless your life is in danger. The best advice is to just walk away and avoid the confrontation as much as possible, and only resort to violence as a last resort if there is no escape. These dregs of society have nothing else in their lives other than the fleeting joy they get from messing with someone and getting a rise out of them, in their attempts to drag everyone down to their level of filth. Never fighting with a bum is like not arguing with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Delete

Some of you guys are not looking at the same videos as I am I think.

-He picked on him, because he was with his girlfriend? -> see other movies where he picks on other guys solo
-He only picks on guys who look beta-->see the video where he gets his ass kicked by this huge black guy, he obviously started shit with him as well.
-He is not looking for a fight.-->he swang first at the black guy, he kicked two of the other guys, etc.

This guy is just a huge dick who is looking for fights and attention, batshit crazy. I wouldn´t want to fight him, because well he obviously has nothing to lose and you have nothing to gain. However if he would actually start physically, then I´d say the best response would be a right fist to the jaw and then get him on the ground. Like others have said, the guy does not belong on the street, police is to blame for not doing anything about him.

Are the mental institutions full up in New York?

Rottenapple - never fight someone who has nothing to lose.

I like most guys I know have too much to lose, breaking a finger, wrist or whatever isn't worth the joy of knocking the bum out.
That is assuming your right fist could knock him out!

Sure I could probably knock the dude into next week, but my "ego" doesn't need to be stroked by knocking out homeless guys.

For you young guys, I can't stress enough to avoid fights when possible.

I would rather lose face than lose my teeth.

Quote: (04-07-2016 03:57 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Rottenapple - never fight someone who has nothing to lose.

I like most guys I know have too much to lose, breaking a finger, wrist or whatever isn't worth the joy of knocking the bum out.
That is assuming your right fist could knock him out!

Sure I could probably knock the dude into next week, but my "ego" doesn't need to be stroked by knocking out homeless guys.

For you young guys, I can't stress enough to avoid fights when possible.

I would rather lose face than lose my teeth.

Yeah. He may even want to go to jail because it is a good break from the streets. Literally nothing to be gained by standing your ground on a little patch of Central Park you didn't even know you cared about before Signs showed up.

But if this guy were threatening and pushing you and you retaliated by punching him, how would the police react? Would it be considered reasonable self-defense or would you be charged with assault?

Quote: (04-07-2016 03:35 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  

Are the mental institutions full up in New York?

Quite the opposite. They've all been emptied or shut down (at least the long term state hospitals). There are giant buildings like this one that used to house 4,400 people but now only keeps around 100 patients. Rest are on the streets.

But based on briefly watching the video he's clearly aware of what he's doing, doesn't seem psychotic, and so belongs more in prison anyway. Better yet he ought to be taken out back and 'taken care of'.

Agree with posters who say that it's not worth it to take a swing at this guy. Besides the physical risk (decent chance the guy has HIV or HepC) is the legal risk. The way it used it to be, in that situation you knock the guy out and if the police get involved, they'll take him to jail, rough him up on the way, then rough him up some more while running him out of town. In today's upside-down climate you're just as likely to find yourself getting charged for assault or having some other legal headache.

Quote: (04-07-2016 05:42 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

But if this guy were threatening and pushing you and you retaliated by punching him, how would the police react? Would it be considered reasonable self-defense or would you be charged with assault?

It is different for different states and different cities. It is best to assume that if you are capable of walking away, and you don't, you will be charged with something. A tangential problem is that the kind of guy who fucks with people like this tend to have a lot more experience with the police than you do, know the laws better than you, and will get the jump on you explaining things in his favor to the cop in relation to the local laws.

The laws can be pretty insane. Like where I live, when I got here, I noticed that the tough looking guys were low key out in public, and the wimpier looking guys and hipsters swagger like sailors and pose and preen and try to run people off sidewalks.

I was talking to a particularly intense dude, a redneck from Montana, like the kind of guy that swings a hatchet around as a nervous tic, an he explained it to me. He said the laws here are really tight, and if you hit someone, even if justified, you and everyone else will get charged and do time.

The rougher dudes know this stuff and cool it down. So ironically, as a result, the people who act the most threatening as a matter of course are the ones who don't know the laws! They think they are scaring other people into submission, and they get bolder and bolder in their swagger, because they think everyone is scared of them.