Scot Adams - creator of Dilbert comics gave what I thought was a great talk on how he succeeded in business.

Two points that stuck with me was setting goals do not work any more -- due to the paradox of choice theory - the more choices we have, the more we experience paralysis. Setting goals worked in more simpler times but today goals distort one's thinking bc you can never really know what you really want. What works though is system over goals. Creating systems or routine or good habits will take you in the area where you want to go.

Second, passion is over rated. Finding that one passion is a lost cause for most. Bankers have a untold rule that they do not give loans to persons with passion because passion often fizzles out. They prefer to give loans to the grinder and even pessimist. Another example - think of the large line ups of want to be singers who auditioned for American idol -- it was thousands and thousands. Each one of them had enormous passion. However, look at how many succeeded on their audition. Very few. Hence passion can be more related to a cause of failure. Those who find their true passion are quite a small minority.

Watching Scot Adams talk is well worth the time spent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Rid9cI6AI

Some broad statements there.

Have you set goals before and achieved them?

Have you had a passion and set out to fulfill it?

It seems you have not done either and are hunting for excuses to do neither.

I really don't mean to come off abrasive. My point is that every situation is different and every man is wired differently. Some may work better in a goal based scenario whereas others are just free birds that just get shit done. A better and more productive venture in my opinion is to develop introspection into yourself to figure out where you fall on the spectrum and go from there rather than follow a theory of "goals" or "no goals" and go one way.

At that point if you listen to Scot Adams or whoever, it will make sense. On the other hand, if you don't know enough about yourself and your confidence level, I don't think it makes sense to listen and follow his advice or anything similar for the sole reason that it sounds good and because it makes sense to him.

"Winners focus, losers spray"- Anonymous

"If you never decide what you really really want, then you've decided to never ever get it" - PapayaTapper

I set and accomplish goals all the time and I am better for it. Real tangible results that impact my life. So I call bullshit. The problem is more often than not, the average person has stupid, shortsighted "goals" that shouldn't even be called that. Will check out the video to see if it covers more ground than that.

Quote: (02-17-2016 07:46 PM)tanner Wrote:  

Setting goals worked in more simpler times but today goals distort one's thinking bc you can never really know what you really want. What works though is system over goals. Creating systems or routine or good habits will take you in the area where you want to go.

I disagree. Having goals as a man is a huge part of feeling successful and having good mental health. Thousands of people flocking to American Idol isn't a true example of goal setting, that is similar to people playing the lottery. Setting a goal would be years of practice on your craft and the learning and progress involved. It would be overcoming the odds, making it through sheer determination and always working towards that desire of being a performer. Simply showing up at a TV show audition that you have no control over with little or no preparation like many of these people do isn't a goal, its a wish.

If you think that not setting goals is a smart move you are going to rob yourself of some of the best satisfaction you can achieve as a man.

Quote:Quote:

You miss 100% of the shots you never take. ~ Wayne Gretsky

Nothing can add more power to your life than concentrating all of your energies on a limited set of targets. ~ Nido Qubein

Setting goals is the first step in turning the invisible into the visible. ~ Anthony Robbins

Write it down. Written goals have a way of transforming wishes into wants; cant’s into cans; dreams into plans; and plans into reality. Don’t just think it—ink it! ~ Author Unknown

Nothing happens unless first we dream.~ Carl Sandburg

When a goal matters enough to a person, that person will find a way to accomplish what at first seemed impossible. ~ Nido Qubein

The most important key to achieving great success is to decide upon your goal and launch, get started, take action, move. ~ Brian Tracy

Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending. ~ Author Unknown

Goals are the fuel in the furnace of achievement. ~ Brian Tracy

Life takes on meaning when you become motivated, set goals and charge after them in an unstoppable manner. ~ Les Brown

Goals are not only absolutely necessary to motivate us. They are essential to really keep us alive. ~ Robert H. Schuller

It is more important to know where you are going than to get there quickly. Do not mistake activity for achievement. ~ Mabel Newcomber

Many people fail in life, not for lack of ability or brains or even courage but simply because they have never organized their energies around a goal. ~ Elbert Hubbard

If one does not know to which port is sailing, no wind is favorable. ~ Seneca

Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. ~ Henry Ford

The rung of a ladder was never meant to rest upon, but only to hold a man’s foot long enough to enable him to put the other somewhat higher. ~ Thomas Henry Huxley

Some of the world’s greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart enough to know they were impossible. ~ Doug Larson

Goals are dreams with deadlines. ~ Diana Scharf Hunt

To live is to choose. But to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go and why you want to get there.~ Kofi Ann

All who have accomplished great things have had a great aim, have fixed their gaze on a goal which was high, one which sometimes seemed impossible. ~ Orison Swelt Marden

First, have a definite, clear practical ideal; a goal, an objective. Second, have the necessary means to achieve your ends; wisdom, money, materials, and methods. Third, adjust all your means to that end!~ Aristotle

It must be borne in mind that the tragedy of life does not lie in not reaching your goal. The tragedy of life lies in having no goal to reach. ~ Benjamin Mays

The major reason for setting a goal is for what it makes of you to accomplish it. What it makes of you will always be the far greater value than what you get.~ Jim Rohn

I can’t change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.~ Jimmy Dean

What is not started today is never finished tomorrow. ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Every day you spend drifting away from your goals is a waste not only of that day, but also of the additional day it takes to regain lost ground.~ Ralph Marston

Goals are simply tools to focus your energy in positive directions, these can be changed as your priorities change, new one added, and others dropped.
~ O. Carl Simonton

If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things. ~ Albert Einstein

By losing your goal, you have lost your way.~ Kahill Gibran

I'm going to second what Gmac said. I've set very tangible goals for myself that i've easily surpassed. I also have long term goals that i'm aiming towards as well which are more "guide posts" than actual goals.

I've found people set goals and then reality ends up flipping the goal on itself. You may have accomplished it, but the journey turned out to be massively different than expected.

What Scott Adams wrote about is more nihilism based. Someone with a more philosophical edge can probably find the pulse on this more easily.

This guy - Scott Adams - is one of us, at least in spirit. The whole mentality is there.

I base my lifestyle on sustainable habits, all cyclical, preferably with snowballing benefits.

I have a similar mindset on goals. True goals are achievement points, not action points. The problem is that you don't always know what action, or how much action, you need to reach a goal. Too much: the unattainability of the goal is demotivating. Too little: the goal doesn't really feel like an achievement and you haven't really made much progress. This goes especially for longer term payoff goals, such as building a certain type business. You just simply don't know how long things take because you've never done it before, so you don't know what sub-division goals to set and on what time limits.

This is why I'm currently on an action point system. All I need to know at the end of each day, is that I have honestly used that day fully. Then I can be at peace, and accept the results that come.

Quote: (02-18-2016 01:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

the unattainability of the goal is demotivating. Too little: the goal doesn't really feel like an achievement and you haven't really made much progress. This goes especially for longer term payoff goals, such as building a certain type business. You just simply don't know how long things take because you've never done it before, so you don't know what sub-division goals to set and on what time limits.

This is why I'm currently on an action point system. All I need to know at the end of each day, is that I have honestly used that day fully. Then I can be at peace, and accept the results that come.

Exactly. Goals can be demotivating. For example lets say you want to lose 30 lbs. But year after year you don't achieve it. Eventually one gets depressed. Instead as Scott Adams argues is chose systems over goals. So you have a eating and exercise plan that you follow daily. Eventually you move towards the target and you don't get depressed.

^ Sure, but it should be a difficult action plan, and still set with that goal in mind. For instance, I have a weight goal, and have no idea when I'll achieve it, but my daily actions in that direction are genuinely tough. Grueling even. Not too long ago I went a bit overboard and ended up collapsing around 7pm and sleeping until 1pm the next day. The biggest risk with an action-only plan is that people use it as "advanced procrastination". They can say to themselves "I'm following my plan", even though their plan is piss weak, and never get anywhere.

Quote: (02-18-2016 03:36 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

^ Sure, but it should be a difficult action plan, and still set with that goal in mind. For instance, I have a weight goal, and have no idea when I'll achieve it, but my daily actions in that direction are genuinely tough. Grueling even. Not too long ago I went a bit overboard and ended up collapsing around 7pm and sleeping until 1pm the next day. The biggest risk with an action-only plan is that people use it as "advanced procrastination". They can say to themselves "I'm following my plan", even though their plan is piss weak, and never get anywhere.

Not true at all. A 'gruelling' plan - one will not stick with long term. A study showed that people who lived long and healthy lives did moderate exercises but they were regular at it. Again systems over goals wins.

I'm not looking to live a long and healthy life . I'm looking to live a big life.

I think the guy referenced in the OP is mixing up goals and systems. Both are useful.

A goal is an objective boiled down to one easy-to-remember statement.

A system is a plan or process that details how you get there.

Two different things. A goal is an end, and a system is the means to achieve that end.

Quote: (02-17-2016 07:46 PM)tanner Wrote:  

Scot Adams - creator of Dilbert comics gave what I thought was a great talk on how he succeeded in business.

Two points that stuck with me was setting goals do not work any more -- due to the paradox of choice theory - the more choices we have, the more we experience paralysis. Setting goals worked in more simpler times but today goals distort one's thinking bc you can never really know what you really want. What works though is system over goals. Creating systems or routine or good habits will take you in the area where you want to go.

Second, passion is over rated. Finding that one passion is a lost cause for most. Bankers have a untold rule that they do not give loans to persons with passion because passion often fizzles out. They prefer to give loans to the grinder and even pessimist. Another example - think of the large line ups of want to be singers who auditioned for American idol -- it was thousands and thousands. Each one of them had enormous passion. However, look at how many succeeded on their audition. Very few. Hence passion can be more related to a cause of failure. Those who find their true passion are quite a small minority.

Watching Scot Adams talk is well worth the time spent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Rid9cI6AI

I personally love reading Scot Adams work but I have a suspicion you are taking what he said about goals out of context.

Have you never set a goal and then achieved it? With no goal, what are you to do in order to strive for improvement? You have nothing to go towards and you would wander listlessly between options. Please clarify.

The point about creating systems for a good life is valid without trying to take down the idea of goals. Why does a man create a system for his life if not to achieve a goal?

^^Yeah I I don't think it makes sense to view them as mutually exclusive. I think the best way to incorporate both is to have goals for shorter term objectives, ie. getting a degree, hitting certain body fat %, banging x number of girls, etc. and implementing systems to set yourself up for a more positive general lifestyle, ie. consistent exercise, approaching the hot chicks you see, learning valuable skills. I think they work best together

There's an audiobook by David Allen called "Getting Things Done" that I'm listening to - he addresses some of the problems mentioned in the thread (such as how in the 'modern world' there are too many options and a lack of 'clear paths'), I've only started on it but I definitely recommend it.

+1 for goal setting.

short, medium and long term goals are critical to get you where you want to be and improve your life.

Without goals and direction you are just drifting.

Setting goals is the first, easy step.

The really hard part is then making a plan to achieve the goal, and then working bloody hard to carry out the plan.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

You can have a goal and a system to achieve that goal.

Look at a business or a IT system for that matter. They exist to derive a profit or a function. You then set processes and parameters to achieve objective.

But yes, you are right in one respect, too much choice erodes discipline and focus.

Seems like an excuse to float. I've yet to see any convincing argument on why goal setting shouldn't be a fundamental part of any mans life.

I listened to a great Anthony Robbins CD a while back that dealt with setting goals. He said to meditate on your goals, in complete silence. Lie flat on your bed, or close your eyes in your car while in the park or somewhere where you won't be interrupted, and picture yourself in the future: where will you be 12 months from now? 2 years from now? 5 years? How about 10? What will you have accomplished? Envision not only the end result, but the ACT of DOING it. Every day. Taking massive action. A long list of things you need to do to get to that goal can only come about by belief deep down inside and a plan.

As a writer, setting goals is mandatory and not an option. It doesn't matter if you're a non-fiction writer or a novelist thriller writer who cranks out 40,000 words a month. You need goals. Otherwise, you start to drift and wander around like a blind person in a fog. That's why I'm not longer a panzter but a plotter.