There has been a lot of back and forth about race and the role it plays in PUA and whether it plays any role at all.

Adding fuel to the debate is this just released study on online dating habits. According to it's authors race continues to play a significant role, especially among whites, particularly white women.

Quote:Quote:

Research on a major dating site between February 2009 and February 2010 by Professor Mendelsohn and his colleagues shows that more than 80 percent of the contacts initiated by white members were to other white members, and only 3 percent to black members.

Quote:Quote:

“What you’ve got is basically the reluctance of white Americans to date and to contact members of other ethnicities, particularly African-Americans,” he said. “We are nowhere near the post-racial age.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/fashio...=2&_r=1&hp

The study focuses on African-Americans, but I am sure the same is true of other races as well.

There is a meme in the pua community that race is immaterial. This study seems to contradict that notion.

Of course, just because race is relevant, doesn't mean that it is insurmountable. Just understand that it's not a level playing field, and don't beat yourself up over any lack of success.

You live in a country that was founded upon racism, prejudice, and the myth of white supremacy, yet, you entertain the idea that race is irrelevant in terms of social dating?

We'll be back after a very important public service announcement from the Easter Bunny.

Actually, race should not matter and when it comes to myself....will NOT matter, why?

Because....

My game has absolutely no room nor extra time to include any extra effort to account for race. For one, I grew up around and went to school at all levels with different races. Also, I prefer african-descent females first then other races, so I don't go "goo goo ga ga" for having/banging some non-african decent chick like many brothas do.

As soon as ANY chick gives me some difficulty, I move on to the next one. I am not doing "extra tap dancing" just to have some non-black chick.

This is the real nub of the matter in that New York Times article,not race:

"Women want men who are — wait for it — tall and wealthy, according to online dating research by Gunter J. Hitsch and Ali Hortacsu at the University of Chicago, "

And:


"The scholars found that women have a stronger preference than men do for income over physical attributes."



That's what you have to deal with in a nutshell.
Doesn't go for all women,but a definite trend ....and always will be!

Its a waste of time to think about factors that you can't change such as height or race. Its a much better mindset to believe that your race actually helps you. It may not be true but at least then you will be going in confident. Delusional self confidence is essential in this game. At the same time you have to be able to find the places that work best for you.

Any beliefs that good looking guys or guys of another race have an advantage will hurt your mental state in the field. Same as any beliefs about your location. Its hard for me to keep constantly approaching in Toronto because I know the grass is far greener in other areas. It feels like a waste of time. My friends who haven't been out of Toronto have far stronger game because they never get pissed off when getting blown out 10 times in a row. They've never known anything better.

Using online dating as the basis for anything rooted in reality is ... stupid.

YAWN - another race thread....who cares!!!

Quote: (11-13-2011 02:12 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

Its a waste of time to think about factors that you can't change such as height or race.

True, but at the same time, I think a lot of PUA conventional wisdom goes to the other extreme and states that it is irrelevant. It is not irrelevant. But, as I said earlier, it`s only a deal breaker if you make it one. And realizing that your race may be a disadvantage may require that you alter your game. Maybe the type of game a white guy can spit out and get away with is not congruent with an Indian or Asian guy. Trying to follow the one size fits all model of game can lead to a lot of frustration.

"Be the change you want to see in the world"

Race, age, looks, money. Re: discussing them...

If not here, then where?
If not now, then when?

Personally I think its nice to talk about, but if you are prone to self limiting beliefs you'll find anything to latch onto.

Lots of interracial sex goes on behind closed doors, it's just serious interracial relations and/or marriage that's relatively rare, esp between blacks and whites in America. I don't know even one single black dude who has not fucked a white chic before. So they are definitely available for sex, just not as much so as girlfriends or wives.

Honestly I'm kind of bored of seeing these studies about America. It's always the same thing. I'd like to see some studies on this topic done in Brazil or Europe.

Quote: (11-13-2011 03:23 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Lots of interracial sex goes on behind closed doors, it's just serious interracial relations and/or marriage that's relatively rare, esp between blacks and whites in America. I don't know even one single black dude who has not fucked a white chic before. So they are definitely available for sex, just not as much so as girlfriends or wives.

Honestly I'm kind of bored of seeing these studies about America. It's always the same thing. I'd like to see some studies on this topic done in Brazil or Europe.

Well I found out what time the doors must open last night at 4am in Tampa.

I was at a place kinda like dennys and there was a group of about the most swagged out asian dudes with hot girls I have ever seen. One after the next black dudes were rolling in with fat white girls. I mean fat!

The asian dudes were ragging on them so much that they started leaving one by one. Even the girl I was with was like WTF is the matter with these dudes?

I honestly have seen nothing like this before

I think *cool, good-looking* Asian guys have it made in America. They benefit from the exotic factor, the status factor, and the non-negative race factor that comes with certain other minorities. They don't have to date white chicks b/c they can date the hot girls of their own race, and they know it. If they're educated and got a decent job, it's like a done deal.

OP assumes that white guys are all that. I dunno. I just don't think being white carries the same cachet in America as it has in the past. Guys are feminized by their single moms. And just like a lot of white guys are looking for something exotic, lots of white girls are the same way.

The Asian guys who come on this board and bitch about their race are probably neither cool nor good looking.

Asian guys don't fetishize asian women like non-asians do.

On top of that asian guys have to "fight off" white dudes for high status asian chicks. Besides asians, whites are usually the only other acceptable race to bring home.

^ Plus, I'm sure there's a lot of interest among hot white girls for good-looking Asian dudes as some kind of subliminal payback for the high-status white guys chasing the high-status asian chicks.

And the circle jerk continues....

All the surveys I've seen is that Asian males are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to IR dating. Below even us black guys. I'd saw a study on match.com showing response rates white women had to different guys. It said something a black guy would have to make $150k a year to have a similar rate of success with WW that a WM of average income did, but an Asian guy would have to make $250k or more to have the same response rate that an average WM did. Not to say there aren't a few AM that do well with women of other races, but saying it's "paradise in America" for Asian men is a bit much.

I didn't say it was a paradise in America for Asian guys. As is commonly observed, a lot of them are average, beta, geeky, nerdy, chubby, ugly, or some common combination of all of them.

My point is that it's paradise for the *cool, good-looking* ones. And it's precisely because the majority of their sub-standard bro's make them stand out even more. The contrast factor. As I mentioned previously, I know this cool, very handsome Asian guy. Guy gets hit on/eye-fucked *everywhere*. I talked to him about it. He says he's probably gotten hit on/approached by over 500+ girls in his life, or he's just lost count.

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:05 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

All the surveys I've seen is that Asian males are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to IR dating. Below even us black guys. I'd saw a study on match.com showing response rates white women had to different guys. It said something a black guy would have to make $150k a year to have a similar rate of success with WW that a WM of average income did, but an Asian guy would have to make $250k or more to have the same response rate that an average WM did. Not to say there aren't a few AM that do well with women of other races, but saying it's "paradise in America" for Asian men is a bit much.

Match. com has nothing to do with real life. Swag = ass. These asian dudes weren't sweating and had magazine quality 8+ latinas and asian girls chasing them. I saw the same shit at the casino as well.

These dudes in the diner were smart, funny, dressed well and having fun.

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:05 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

All the surveys I've seen is that Asian males are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to IR dating. Below even us black guys. I'd saw a study on match.com showing response rates white women had to different guys. It said something a black guy would have to make $150k a year to have a similar rate of success with WW that a WM of average income did, but an Asian guy would have to make $250k or more to have the same response rate that an average WM did. Not to say there aren't a few AM that do well with women of other races, but saying it's "paradise in America" for Asian men is a bit much.

The issue is the hordes of boring beta Asian nerds. There are 100 of those for every cool Asian guy in Toronto. Obviously this can hurt you unless you differentiate yourself in style and have sharp game. Girls are simply used to seeing thousands of Asians and Indian nerds. A girl in my class I'm gaming said the same, she hates the nerdy "Asian Invasion". Can't say I disagree.

Asian and Indian guys are the biggest betas ever and they treat their own girls like goddesses. Mediocre Asian girls in Toronto(I'm comparing it to Bangkok) think they are the shit. Asian guys buy gifts and pedastalize women like crazy.

Unsurprisingly the places in Toronto where there are legitimately hot girls are the places where the girls and guys are mostly white. These are a goldmine and that's where I'm building up my current social circle. The competition is low and bitch shields are low.

I don't believe a lot of things, the guy claiming that Asian guy got eyefucked constantly I have to ask, where the girls Asian or White? If i go through IMDb, the best looking Asians guys are not as good looking as the top caliber white/other ethnic guys. Can you guys post pics of these good looking Asian guys? I have never seen any that's good looking compared to other races The entire logic behind what speakeasy and various other people is that, if you were to take the best looking guys from all the races, the Asians guys would come out at the bottom. From my experience, this is true a lot of times. Asian girls are not the same as Asian guys, the feminine features of Asians look attractive on the females while the males with the same features are not masculine.

I know for a fact that regardless of how good looking your Asian friend or any Asian is, none of the higher caliber North African, Middle Eastern girls would even think about going out with an Asian guy. The hot girls of other races have a wider pool of men to choose from, including the supremely good looking guys of their own race & whites. Why would a *hot* Latin/Hispanic girl go out with an Asian guy when she has supremely good looking Latin guys to choose from? Why would she choose a guy that looks perpetually different & strange compared to the standards of beauty that she is used to (& the world)? The white guys that go for Asians girls are usually the ones that don't have many options in the first place, and they are usually geeks or nerds. Not every other race are like whites and "fantasize" about having something "exotic". The ideal standard of beauty across most cultures is not an Asian guy, it's someone usually with Caucasoid features (not necessarily white). Black guys have a lot of things working for them including VERY good athletic genes and the culture they have come up with.

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:38 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

I don't believe a lot of things, the guy claiming that Asian guy got eyefucked constantly I have to ask, where the girls Asian or White? If i go through IMDb, the best looking Asians guys are not as good looking as the top caliber white/other ethnic guys. The entire logic behind what speakeasy and various other people is that, if you were to take the best looking guys from all the races, the Asians guys would come out at the bottom. Asian girls are not the same as Asian guys, the feminine features of Asians look attractive on the females while the males with the same features are not masculine.

I know for a fact that regardless of how good looking your Asian friend or any Asian is, none of the higher caliber North African, Middle Eastern girls would ever look or even think about going out with an Asian guy. The hot girls of other races have a wider pool of men to choose from, including the supremely good looking guys of their own race & whites. Why would a *hot* Latin/Hispanic girl go out with an Asian guy when she has supremely good looking Latin guys to choose from? Why would she choose a guy that looks perpetually different & strange compared to the standards of beauty that she is used to (& the world)?

Yeah, I'm just going to ignore what I saw/see with my own eyes because of your vague racist views on what women like, even though you aren't a woman yourself. You sound a lot like the guys who comment on the game vs. looks thread, when they aren't good looking and have no basis to make that comparison.

I live in a mostly-white area. I've seen him pull up the spectrum from 9's down to 3's, mostly white chicks because I don't hang out in Asian bars/clubs.

I'll stand behind my statements. The guy below will pull better than a comparably handsome white guy because he is more RARE... Women like more rare things. Good looking white guys are more common, and hence, less rare. If you don't get this simple aspect of female psychology, then you got a lot to learn about the fundamentals of game (sorry to say).

   

Guy above benefits because most of his ethnic competition is like this:
   
   

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:38 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

The white guys that go for Asians girls are usually the ones that don't have many options in the first place, and they are usually geeks or nerds.

Maybe you and I have just seen different things. I've spent part of my life in coastal California. I can definitively say that a lot of top-tier white guys on the West Coast love Asian chicks.

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:52 PM)scorpio Wrote:  

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:38 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

I don't believe a lot of things, the guy claiming that Asian guy got eyefucked constantly I have to ask, where the girls Asian or White? If i go through IMDb, the best looking Asians guys are not as good looking as the top caliber white/other ethnic guys. The entire logic behind what speakeasy and various other people is that, if you were to take the best looking guys from all the races, the Asians guys would come out at the bottom. Asian girls are not the same as Asian guys, the feminine features of Asians look attractive on the females while the males with the same features are not masculine.

I know for a fact that regardless of how good looking your Asian friend or any Asian is, none of the higher caliber North African, Middle Eastern girls would ever look or even think about going out with an Asian guy. The hot girls of other races have a wider pool of men to choose from, including the supremely good looking guys of their own race & whites. Why would a *hot* Latin/Hispanic girl go out with an Asian guy when she has supremely good looking Latin guys to choose from? Why would she choose a guy that looks perpetually different & strange compared to the standards of beauty that she is used to (& the world)?

Yeah, I'm just going to ignore what I saw/see with my own eyes because of your vague racist views on what women like, even though you aren't a woman yourself. You sound a lot like the guys who comment on the game vs. looks thread, when they aren't good looking and have no basis to make that comparison.

I live in a mostly-white area. I've seen him pull up the spectrum from 9's down to 3's, mostly white chicks because I don't hang out in Asian bars/clubs.

I'll stand behind my statements. The guy below will pull better than a comparably handsome white guy because he is more RARE... Women like more rare things. Good looking white guys are more common, and hence, less rare. If you don't get this simple aspect of female psychology, then you got a lot to learn about the fundamentals of game (sorry to say).



Guy above benefits because most of his ethnic competition is like this:

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:38 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

The white guys that go for Asians girls are usually the ones that don't have many options in the first place, and they are usually geeks or nerds.

Maybe you and I have just seen different things. I've spent part of my life in coastal California. I can definitively say that a lot of top-tier white guys on the West Coast love Asian chicks.

I guess you and I do see things differently, but that guy in the top picture is a Eurasian person not a full Asian. The fundamentals of game, as expanded and corrected from the original mystery method do not apply to all "geographic cultures, countries & locations". That first pic of that person you posted? That guy would be looked down upon like crazy in the Middle East/North Africa by BOTH girls & guys for being a "Hazara", or "strange looking", the untouchables of that cultures/region. I guarantee a guy looking like that would get a lot of shit thrown at him in Iran & elsewhere because of the way he looks, (not just because of the Islamic culture). Likewise in Russia he would get beaten to death and gotten looks of disgust/no poon from women because in many ways he resembles someone from the Central Asian republics, and they are considered low class there. I don't know how exactly women think, nor do I profess to, but I do know in many ways that they are HUGELY & neurologically affected by cultural programming towards people positive or negative.

I also really disagree with the rarity thing; rarity by that definition is culturally relative, a rare person (your defin) considered by females within a certain culture does not mean someone completely different or outside the parameters & standards of beauty within that culture, but definable & within the upper echelon and the far end of said culture, somewhat within but not outside of it. All the white guys that I grew up with didn't usually go for Asian girls, (Midwest). I am sure the guy in the picture was airbrushed or had surgery of other things. You and I do have had different experiences and see things differently.

I don't understand what's going on here, on the other threads there were a huge number of guys being subtle, covert or outright racist assholes towards black guys for wanting to be successful with women of all races, and it was being accepted. It took primarily the Black guys to point those assholes out. Yet when Asian guys are concerned everyone is a sweet little angel trying to help the "oppressed" & beaten down Asian man, and you are obviously a no-good close-minded racist if you have any minor criticism or negative things to say about them; even if you aren't even being that close of a racist asshole like the guys in the other threads towards blacks.

Quote: (11-13-2011 05:28 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:52 PM)scorpio Wrote:  

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:38 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

I don't believe a lot of things, the guy claiming that Asian guy got eyefucked constantly I have to ask, where the girls Asian or White? If i go through IMDb, the best looking Asians guys are not as good looking as the top caliber white/other ethnic guys. The entire logic behind what speakeasy and various other people is that, if you were to take the best looking guys from all the races, the Asians guys would come out at the bottom. Asian girls are not the same as Asian guys, the feminine features of Asians look attractive on the females while the males with the same features are not masculine.

I know for a fact that regardless of how good looking your Asian friend or any Asian is, none of the higher caliber North African, Middle Eastern girls would ever look or even think about going out with an Asian guy. The hot girls of other races have a wider pool of men to choose from, including the supremely good looking guys of their own race & whites. Why would a *hot* Latin/Hispanic girl go out with an Asian guy when she has supremely good looking Latin guys to choose from? Why would she choose a guy that looks perpetually different & strange compared to the standards of beauty that she is used to (& the world)?

Yeah, I'm just going to ignore what I saw/see with my own eyes because of your vague racist views on what women like, even though you aren't a woman yourself. You sound a lot like the guys who comment on the game vs. looks thread, when they aren't good looking and have no basis to make that comparison.

I live in a mostly-white area. I've seen him pull up the spectrum from 9's down to 3's, mostly white chicks because I don't hang out in Asian bars/clubs.

I'll stand behind my statements. The guy below will pull better than a comparably handsome white guy because he is more RARE... Women like more rare things. Good looking white guys are more common, and hence, less rare. If you don't get this simple aspect of female psychology, then you got a lot to learn about the fundamentals of game (sorry to say).



Guy above benefits because most of his ethnic competition is like this:

Quote: (11-13-2011 04:38 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

The white guys that go for Asians girls are usually the ones that don't have many options in the first place, and they are usually geeks or nerds.

Maybe you and I have just seen different things. I've spent part of my life in coastal California. I can definitively say that a lot of top-tier white guys on the West Coast love Asian chicks.

I guess you and I do see things differently, but that guy in the top picture is a Eurasian person not a full Asian. The fundamentals of game, as expanded and corrected from the original mystery method do not apply to all "geographic cultures, countries & locations". That first pic of that person you posted? That guy would be looked down upon like crazy in the Middle East/North Africa by BOTH girls & guys for being a "Hazara", or "strange looking", the untouchables of that cultures/region. I guarantee a guy looking like that would get a lot of shit thrown at him in Iran & elsewhere because of the way he looks, (not just because of the Islamic culture). Likewise in Russia he would get beaten to death and gotten looks of disgust/no poon from women because in many ways he resembles someone from the Central Asian republics, and they are considered low class there. I don't know how exactly women think, nor do I profess to, but I do know in many ways that they are HUGELY & neurologically affected by cultural programming towards people positive or negative.

I also really disagree with the rarity thing; rarity by that definition is culturally relative, a rare person (your defin) considered by females within a certain culture does not mean someone completely different or outside the parameters & standards of beauty within that culture, but definable & within the upper echelon and the far end of said culture, somewhat within but not outside of it. All the white guys that I grew up with didn't usually go for Asian girls, (Midwest). I am sure the guy in the picture was airbrushed or had surgery of other things. You and I do have had different experiences and see things differently.

I don't understand what's going on here, on the other threads there were a huge number of guys being subtle, covert or outright racist assholes towards black guys for wanting to be successful with women of all races, and it was being accepted. It took primarily the Black guys to point those assholes out. Yet when Asian guys are concerned everyone is a sweet little angel trying to help the "oppressed" & beaten down Asian man, and you are obviously a no-good close-minded racist if you have any minor criticism or negative things to say about them; even if you aren't even being that close of a racist asshole like the guys in the other threads towards blacks.

I am black. I think its because Black Guys are the closest competition to White Guys, at least in America. With Asian Guys, there not much of a threat, so there is this patronizing atttitude.

Honestly these race threads need to stop. I come here to learn game from Everyone regardless of Ethnicity/Race. We share tips and have a camaraderie in that we are here for same goal more or less.

Quote: (11-13-2011 05:28 PM)Gariell Wrote:  

I don't understand what's going on here, on the other threads there were a huge number of guys being subtle, covert or outright racist assholes towards black guys for wanting to be successful with women of all races, and it was being accepted. It took primarily the Black guys to point those assholes out. Yet when Asian guys are concerned everyone is a sweet little angel trying to help the "oppressed" & beaten down Asian man, and you are obviously a no-good close-minded racist if you have any minor criticism or negative things to say about them; even if you aren't even being that close of a racist asshole like the guys in the other threads towards blacks.

I'm gonna call you out for the insecure little racist bitch that you are. I was ready to let this go, but you obviously got butt-hurt because it's hard for you to put an entire race of guys beneath you. Fuck you, and suck my dick you little beta bitch.

First, I never defended the oppressed and beaten down Asian man. I think most of them are nerds who struggle dating in America. I have merely observed that the few good looking ones do well. What's wrong with that?

Second, I have never attacked black posters here. In fact, I respect a good number of the black posters here for raising interesting points. I recall responding to some thread about why I thought using mostly-white entertainment figures as the standard for beauty is entirely flawed.

I don't like racists of any kind, which means I don't like you. So fuck off.

Scorpio is right. While there are massive amounts of socially inept beta asians who don't take care of their bodies or appearance, those that do absolutely destroy. I have a half white/japanese buddy in NYC that pulls 6-8s constantly. NYC also has a huge asian community and he has the whole upper class social scene on lockdown. It can be done. Social circle game is huge for them.