Quote: (10-01-2015 09:48 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 09:31 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 09:16 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

It seems there is a critical mass problem to gun control.

I have no doubt that if there were a concerted effort to crack down on guns ie. zero tolerance, complete ban, a war on gun smuggling across the border, absolute and total repurchase of guns by the government - we would reduce these incidents. Yes, mental health is a rising issue in this country, but you're kidding yourself if you think this country is more mentally deranged per country than the next 10 OECD countries combined, when those countries, combined, have fewer shootings.

I do agree that anything short of that only shifts the ease of gun acquisition away from law abiding citizens and towards criminals, crazies, and terrorists. Unfortunately, with the second amendment, federalism, NRA, and political culture in this country, the former is near politically impossible. So we will get half-hearted "solutions" that don't really do anything. And when more shootings continue, the supporters of gun freedom will point to these "solutions" as evidence that gun control doesn't work.

On another note: it always strikes me as ludicrous how much of the american political discourse is based on the pretense that it is the only liberal, capitalist democracy in the world. Canada and Australia seem like infinitely less dysfunctional, per capita, countries than the U.S. Singapore and Hong Kong, while not real democracies, seem to provide better standards of living, lower taxes, vice freedoms like prostitution ie. libertarian authoritarianism. None of them have second amendment rights and, uh, they aren't exactly castro's cuba.

When I am of parenting age I will be GTFOing out of the U.S. Too much unnecessary shit compared to peer developed countries - gun violence, police brutality, cowboy interventionist foreign policy, affirmative action, shitty divorce laws, insane tuition (even for public universities), false rape epidemic. I realize other countries have some of these things, but I can name no other developed country with all of these issues.

America has a demographic problem, not a gun problem.

And... what do you mean by that?

So far, most of the shooters have been... white? middle class? "white hispanic"? Maybe the common thread is that they all couldn't get laid? Disaffected? medicated?

Fine - those are not unique problems to America among the developed world.

America has a demographic problem with respect to immigration, but I don't see a lot of illegal immigrants shooting up schools.

As horrible as they are, the casualties in these shootings account for a tiny percentage of national murders every year. You'll hear about these deaths because of the randomness and shocking horror of it occurring in a place where it normally shouldn't and because the victims are innocent, but a ton of the murders in this country take place in the inner cities and do not make national news.

What I mean by that is that a relatively small subset of the 13% African American population is disproportionately responsible for about half of murders that occur each year in this country, according to FBI stats, and are disproportionately victims.

Remove their contributions and our murder rate, proportionally, begins to falls in line with the rest of the first world, mostly homogenous (for now) European countries that anti-gunners so often like to point to as being gun-free utopias with few murders.

So when you say America is too violent, there's too much gun violence, etc. you should realize that most of it isn't lone wolf shooter weirdos like this kid. A lot of these isolated incidents would be preventable if we could actually involuntarily commit crazy people in a more streamlined fashion like we used to.

Comparing American murder rates to homogenous European or Asian countries isn't really fair and blaming guns makes no sense given the numbers that are plain for all to see.

Quote: (10-01-2015 03:23 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 03:21 PM)369eyedea Wrote:  

another reason to never live in the United States. Average people having to walk around carrying guns just to feel safe, it's whole different world

It isn't like that, not even a little bit. I can tell you've only seen the US on TV, and have never actaully been here.

There are other guys on this thread saying precisely that: they only feel safe always carrying. So it must be at least a little bit like that.
Maybe he's only seen the US on RVF.

Quote: (10-01-2015 09:21 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 09:05 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I'm not surprised by that. It was only one persons life in danger, right? Not the same as being lined up execution style by only one shooter and knowing for a fact you are going to die if you don't do something.

Nah, I've seen this a lot.

Average people are shocked into utter passivity by the reality of real world violence. For fuck's sake, they've been so coddled and protected by the social stability they take for granted every day that they equate people laughing at them on the internet with violence.

The moment things go violent or feral, they cannot mentally process it. They simply shut down and look to the ground - hoping that either the threat goes will go away or that someone else will solve the problem for them.

It's been drilled into the millenial generation that there are serious consequences for fighting and hurting someone, no matter the context. So even those who are capable will hold back.

Quote: (10-01-2015 10:45 PM)armint Wrote:  

It's been drilled into the millenial generation that there are serious consequences for fighting and hurting someone, no matter the context. So even those who are capable will hold back.

Flight 93 (at least). The corralled students could have bum-rushed the shooter with maximum panic and minimal damage. But probably not one of them had the thought, impetus, or courage to actually do it.

Training for the worst is part of enjoying life at it's best.

I'd have no problem criticizing people now if a similar situation happened, but on 9/11, no one in those first two planes was thinking they were about to become a giant missile. Terrorism had never been a big issue in the US prior to that. Now people go too far in the opposite direction and think everything is terrorism.

Quote: (10-01-2015 10:55 PM)Sexus Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 10:45 PM)armint Wrote:  

It's been drilled into the millenial generation that there are serious consequences for fighting and hurting someone, no matter the context. So even those who are capable will hold back.

Flight 93 (at least). The corralled students could have bum-rushed the shooter with maximum panic and minimal damage. But probably not one of them had the thought, impetus, or courage to actually do it.

Training for the worst is part of enjoying life at it's best.

Flight 93 happened after the towers were hit. At least some of the people on board knew that if the hijackers weren't stopped they were 100% unquestionably going to die.

Without context like that you get every other recent mass killing that's happened in the US, including the other two 9/11 hijackings. People think they have a shot to get out of the predicament completely unscathed, so they go for it - and even for a tough, trained fighter that means keeping in mind the potential aftermath of "trying to play cowboy" and not getting mixed up in that shit.

Father of a victim (injured) just got visibly pissed on CNN recounting how much time the shooter had according to her.

Quote: (10-01-2015 10:55 PM)Sexus Wrote:  

Flight 93 (at least).

Pre-9/11, it was common knowledge the military was authorised to shoot down hijacked commercial planes in the event of a serious threat.

Another thing: in the 50s our gun laws were way more lax than they are today and we didn't have these events at the same frequency. We did have long-term inpatient care mental hospitals, though, and committing someone was easier. I think there just might be a correlation there.

If you buy that this is because of guns then you must acknowledge that our gun laws are tougher today than they were then -- that's a fact. You have to try to explain that away somehow.

Also, Vice fell for the trolling. I hope Sam sues them out of existence.

Quote: (10-01-2015 11:03 PM)armint Wrote:  

... and even for a tough, trained fighter that means keeping in mind the potential aftermath of "trying to play cowboy" and not getting mixed up in that shit.

That is where training comes into play. You are not worrying about aftermath. You are saving your people and/or trying to destroy the enemy's objectives. There is no other more noble cause... aside of being in the real fight.

Quote: (10-01-2015 10:16 PM)kleyau Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 09:56 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 09:27 PM)kleyau Wrote:  

The only people that handle violence well have been in violent situations before or are natural sociopaths. Normal sheeple are worthless by design.

I think it's more these two abilities:

- Being able to accurately-identify the severity of a threat;

- Being able to block off the fear and shock response long enough to get the job done.

That latter part is a complete negation of self: you become force and will.

It's not always who you'd expect, either. The most unassuming man can grow a razor sharp edge in a crisis. I've known many paramedics who looked as threatening as Ram Z Paul, but the moment shit gets real, their focus was incredible.

I should have added "Or had significant, stressful training."

It is always who I expect, but I've been doing this a long time.

Doing what for a long time?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...-flanagan/

Quote:Quote:

REPORT: CHRIS HARPER MERCER SOUGHT ‘LIMELIGHT’ HE SAW GIVEN TO VA SHOOTER VESTER FLANAGAN
by AWR HAWKINS




On Thursday morning, police say 26-year-old Chris Harper Mercer shot and killed at least nine people on the Umpqua Community College (UCC) campus before officers shot and killed him.

A new report claims someone appearing to be Mercer wrote longingly of the attention given to Vester Lee Flanagan after he shot a television reporter and cameraman on air in Virginia.

Mercer wounded at least seven people in addition to those he killed on the gun free UCC campus, law enforcement says.

According to CBS News, a blog which appears to be Mercer’s “[referenced] multiple shootings,” including the shooting carried out by Flanagan on August 26.

Regarding Flanagan, Mercer allegedly wrote:

I have noticed that so many people like [Flanagan] are alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are. A man who was known by no one, is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems like the more people you kill, the more you’re in the limelight.

During an evening press conference on the attack, Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin asked media not to use the gunman’s name–not to give him the celebrity he may have been seeking via the attack.

He isn't wrong about the media, they give them celebrity status.

What's scary is these loners long for attention and validation, that hey'll copy and idolize other mass shooters.

This is a copy cat mass shooting - yet the media isn't going to talk about mental health, just the fucking "assault" weapons used.

Yet another one of these and still neither the media nor our "leaders" draw the right conclusions.

My opinion is that is it easier than ever before to be an isolated, amputated, delusional sociopath. Why? Because many aspects of our society breed these freaks.

How? This is how:

1. A fatally non-judgmental culture here allows young people to grow up with no discipline and no boundaries. This is dangerous.

2. At the same time, young kids are fed a diet of delusional "me-first" philosophies that cut them off from the rest of society and molly-coddle their fears and neuroses.

3. A pervasive anti-male and anti-masculine culture here further shames and marginalizes these young guys.

4. Lack of universal military service contributes to the fragmentation and atomization of the American man. Men in this country grow up with no set of shared experiences, and no experience of hardship, physical challenges, or achievement. Previous eras had this. The generation now does not.

5. Young guys need to be around other young guys: they need to put each other in check, get their asses kicked sometimes, get bullied sometimes, and learn the school of hard knocks. Our society shames all this now, or tries to "protect" everyone from normal formative experiences that previous generations all had to go through. As a result, we have a society of pussies, whiners, bitches, punks, pricks, and wackos.

6. Modern technology allows these guys to isolate themselves and get reinforcement from other borderline personalities on social media. Their fantasies become inflamed and stoked.

Maybe this guy was beyond all hope. I don't know. But I doubt it. With the right environment, he might have been cured of his anti-social mentality.

My point is that, while some sociopaths of psychopaths will always be out there, there are many that could have been corrected, if their society had not failed them.

I think our society is breeding these people, for the reasons that I've given above. Unless we make big changes in our whole worldview, this is going to continue.

But no one wants to hear that. No one wants to be disciplined. No one wants to be forced to change.

And that's what needs to happen. We're rotting from within, and our worthless, chickenshit leaders can't do anything about it.

Nothing short of a cultural renaissance can prevent this.

Quote: (10-02-2015 12:24 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I think our society is breeding these people, for the reasons that I've given above. Unless we make big changes in our whole worldview, this is going to continue.

But no one wants to hear that. No one wants to be disciplined. No one wants to be forced to change.

And that's what needs to happen. We're rotting from within, and our worthless, chickenshit leaders can't do anything about it.

Nothing short of a cultural renaissance can prevent this.

I take exception to your use of the word "punk" !!!






Mandatory military and/or gymnastic physical training, for both men and women, has always been nothing but good for society and the world. Compare the Olympics from 1964.

Quote: (10-01-2015 09:55 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Arm every man, woman, and child in america with a gun and i guarantee you the american military would put down a resistance faster than they dispatched the Iraqi Revolutionary Guard.

Your point is well taken, but it has absolutely zero grounding in today's reality.

That's what we thought about the Viet Cong also.

You're out of your mind if you think 330 million armed Americans can't put up resistance to the military. Do you know what kind of guerrilla warfare 330 million armed Americans on their own soil could wage? The US would be impossible for any army to occupy, US or foreign.

Regardless, even if what you say is true (it isn't), I'd rather go down fighting with a gun in my hand than being shot in the back of the head execution style while my family watched.

People with your weak, defeatist mentality are far too common in the US these days. Strong men are who built and defended this country. It's sad to see so many of their descendants looking like Pajama Boy.

Quote: (10-01-2015 10:44 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 03:23 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 03:21 PM)369eyedea Wrote:  

another reason to never live in the United States. Average people having to walk around carrying guns just to feel safe, it's whole different world

It isn't like that, not even a little bit. I can tell you've only seen the US on TV, and have never actaully been here.

There are other guys on this thread saying precisely that: they only feel safe always carrying. So it must be at least a little bit like that.
Maybe he's only seen the US on RVF.

I see two people saying they have concealed carry. I don't see either of them saying they only feel safe while carrying. Quote the people who said they only feel safe carrying.

Quote: (10-02-2015 12:56 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 10:44 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 03:23 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 03:21 PM)369eyedea Wrote:  

another reason to never live in the United States. Average people having to walk around carrying guns just to feel safe, it's whole different world

It isn't like that, not even a little bit. I can tell you've only seen the US on TV, and have never actaully been here.

There are other guys on this thread saying precisely that: they only feel safe always carrying. So it must be at least a little bit like that.
Maybe he's only seen the US on RVF.

I see two people saying they have concealed carry. I don't see either of them saying they only feel safe while carrying. Quote the people who said they only feel safe carrying.

Almost everyone I know (myself included) has a concealed carry permit, and it isn't because we feel unsafe. The permit makes it quicker when buying guns from FFLs, and lets you carry in states with reciprocity. We have legal open carry and constitutional carry as well.

Guns are everywhere here, always.

And it works just fine.

Quote: (10-02-2015 12:24 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I think our society is breeding these people, for the reasons that I've given above. Unless we make big changes in our whole worldview, this is going to continue.

Of course it is. This is Cultural Marxism in action: atomised individuals with no support structures wanting to lash out at society enough to destabilise it.

Whether it's a Conspiracy Theory or not is irrelevant- every Radical Feminist I went to university with believed in the process of infiltrating and subverting patriarchal institutions with the destruction of the family, the church and capitalist society itself as the end goals.

As I've said before, expect more of it. This is why I keep saying, find your tribe. There's an odd feeling in the air even normal people around me are sensing and commenting on: a feeling that it's time to choose sides. I think it's coming from the vast gulf between the morals the media trumpets, and what average people actually believe.

Isolate people, gently float a balloon and see how they respond. When they do, let them know they're not alone. Not with online communication - face to face. You will see the relief of realisation on their faces - it's not just me.

Doing this yesterday is how I now know my Doctor is anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion and doesn't believe Bruce Jenner is a woman.

Quote: (10-02-2015 12:51 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Quote: (10-01-2015 09:55 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

Arm every man, woman, and child in america with a gun and i guarantee you the american military would put down a resistance faster than they dispatched the Iraqi Revolutionary Guard.

Your point is well taken, but it has absolutely zero grounding in today's reality.

That's what we thought about the Viet Cong also.

You're out of your mind if you think 330 million armed Americans can't put up resistance to the military. Do you know what kind of guerrilla warfare 330 million armed Americans on their own soil could wage? The US would be impossible for any army to occupy, US or foreign.

Regardless, even if what you say is true (it isn't), I'd rather go down fighting with a gun in my hand than being shot in the back of the head execution style while my family watched.

People with your weak, defeatist mentality are far too common in the US these days. Strong men are who built and defended this country. It's sad to see so many of their descendants looking like Pajama Boy.

The military and police force isn't some separate entity in the U.S. either. If it really reached that tipping point you'd have splittist factions in both the military AND police. That's why guerilla war is so effective. You can subvert institutions and hide out in plain sight because most of the population you're around is sympathetic to your cause.

On the other hand guerilla war doesn't work so well if the civilian population doesn't want you around.

Gun control isn't and never has been the issue anyways. The spree/mass killings is just a symptom of a much bigger issue that's unaddressed and that's mental health. A lot of Americans are pretty fucked up..per capita i'd say it's more than other countries even though some of you may disagree.

A determined psychopath can easily assemble a bomb anyways.

Quote: (10-01-2015 11:11 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Another thing: in the 50s our gun laws were way more lax than they are today and we didn't have these events at the same frequency. We did have long-term inpatient care mental hospitals, though, and committing someone was easier. I think there just might be a correlation there.

If you buy that this is because of guns then you must acknowledge that our gun laws are tougher today than they were then -- that's a fact. You have to try to explain that away somehow.

And that's the rub of it. Mental illness and gun control are easier solutions.. in terms of policy. But the stark reality is that neither meds nor more stringent gun buying laws will solve this sort of issue. Its a symptom of sick society, and there are no quick or one directional solutions period.

This is a bit off topic, but I noticed that during the media coverage, literally every single girl they showed or interviewed seem fat or obese. As well as most of the adults, even more so than usual.

Quote: (10-02-2015 01:47 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Quote: (10-02-2015 12:24 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I think our society is breeding these people, for the reasons that I've given above. Unless we make big changes in our whole worldview, this is going to continue.

Of course it is. This is Cultural Marxism in action: atomised individuals with no support structures wanting to lash out at society enough to destabilise it.

Whether it's a Conspiracy Theory or not is irrelevant- every Radical Feminist I went to university with believed in the process of infiltrating and subverting patriarchal institutions with the destruction of the family, the church and capitalist society itself as the end goals.

As I've said before, expect more of it. This is why I keep saying, find your tribe. There's an odd feeling in the air even normal people around me are sensing and commenting on: a feeling that it's time to choose sides. I think it's coming from the vast gulf between the morals the media trumpets, and what average people actually believe.

Isolate people, gently float a balloon and see how they respond. When they do, let them know they're not alone. Not with online communication - face to face. You will see the relief of realisation on their faces - it's not just me.

Doing this yesterday is how I now know my Doctor is anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion and doesn't believe Bruce Jenner is a woman.

I'm finding that I'm gravitating towards other cats who've regularly lifted that I met at the gym, since that's the bulk of my social interactions except for gaming girls. Very few women give a fuck, or have feminist undertones that make everything "creepy" and devoid of cause.

The honesty in self improvement seems to automate mutual conclusions. Plus, hard work makes a life worth living, something to fight for and preserve.

My buddy who manages 10 area GNCs - ex power lifter about to land a fat job a Cellucor, just confronted a gun fight in front of the main store at the mall. Wisely he backed off as shots were fired. Black young gang kids, nonetheless.

Self identified as mixed race. Bought SS officer's hat. Email: [email protected]

Talk about an identity crisis.

George Zimmerman gave us the "white hispanic."

Chris Harper Mercer will give us "white mixed race."

How come Obama didn't mention the 52 people shot in Chicago last weekend?