[Bilboswaggins]

(05-12-2015 07:56 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

(05-11-2015 07:19 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

If you aren't getting any rashes or what have you from the BCAAs, then carry on taking it. But don't go work out fully fasted, take either 10g BCAAs or a have a small pre-workout meal (roughly 50g protein and 50g carbs as Martin suggests).

50gr of carbs? I eat less carbs in a whole day.

What is the reasoning behind this?

[Isaac Jordan]

(05-13-2015 05:02 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 07:56 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

(05-11-2015 07:19 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

If you aren't getting any rashes or what have you from the BCAAs, then carry on taking it. But don't go work out fully fasted, take either 10g BCAAs or a have a small pre-workout meal (roughly 50g protein and 50g carbs as Martin suggests).

50gr of carbs? I eat less carbs in a whole day.

What is the reasoning behind this?

Carbohydrates are broken down into glucose after digestion. The presence of glucose in the bloodstream stimulates the pancreas to release insulin, which effectively shuts down fat burning in order to allow the body to burn the glucose instead.

More carbs = more insulin = less potential for fat burning

Eating 50g of carbs right before a workout means your body is going to be burning those for energy during the workout. Fasted workouts force the body to draw from its internal fat stores instead.

[s3k]

Bilbo, you clearly have not read martin's site. He does NOT recommend eating ANY carbs pre workout. He does have you eat them immediately AFTER a workout. You are preaching mis information!!! Issac, you are 100% correct.

[Checkmat]

(05-13-2015 10:42 AM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 05:02 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 07:56 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

(05-11-2015 07:19 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

If you aren't getting any rashes or what have you from the BCAAs, then carry on taking it. But don't go work out fully fasted, take either 10g BCAAs or a have a small pre-workout meal (roughly 50g protein and 50g carbs as Martin suggests).

50gr of carbs? I eat less carbs in a whole day.

What is the reasoning behind this?

Carbohydrates are broken down into glucose after digestion. The presence of glucose in the bloodstream stimulates the pancreas to release insulin, which effectively shuts down fat burning in order to allow the body to burn the glucose instead.

More carbs = more insulin = less potential for fat burning

Eating 50g of carbs right before a workout means your body is going to be burning those for energy during the workout. Fasted workouts force the body to draw from its internal fat stores instead.

I thought we use the glycogen stored in our muscles for energy in the absence of outside carbs.

[Captain Gh]

(05-16-2015 12:23 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 10:42 AM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 05:02 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 07:56 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

(05-11-2015 07:19 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

If you aren't getting any rashes or what have you from the BCAAs, then carry on taking it. But don't go work out fully fasted, take either 10g BCAAs or a have a small pre-workout meal (roughly 50g protein and 50g carbs as Martin suggests).

50gr of carbs? I eat less carbs in a whole day.

What is the reasoning behind this?

Carbohydrates are broken down into glucose after digestion. The presence of glucose in the bloodstream stimulates the pancreas to release insulin, which effectively shuts down fat burning in order to allow the body to burn the glucose instead.

More carbs = more insulin = less potential for fat burning

Eating 50g of carbs right before a workout means your body is going to be burning those for energy during the workout. Fasted workouts force the body to draw from its internal fat stores instead.

I thought we use the glycogen stored in our muscles for energy in the absence of outside carbs.

I believe that Martin recommended 10g of BCAA'S or about 50g of protein and no carbs as a preworkout meal (pretty sure) to accentuate fat burning alongside performance. The BCAA way is the best since the mostly non caloric amino acid ( some BCAA'S have some flavers that add some calories) will be fed to the muscle right away (they bypass the digestive system and go straight to the liver) and will use them to fuel the muscles for the workout.

Then it is the workout that will increase the metabolic rate to help you burn the fat. Your body won't be tapping into the Glucose of your muscle since the BCAA's will be covering the energy that your muscle will need for the short workout. Some Protein before a workout is just fine, but by using some BCAA's instead is just to get a little bit of an edge to be more ripped while doing the same amount of lifting. That's why it's important to train for short session if you adopt the BCAA's strategy.

If you want to add cardio to the mix, it would be to go take a supplement right after your lifting session (a fat burner or my favorite supplement Yohimbe) or some caffeine to boost your nervous system and that will target the fat stores to be used as energy from the fat stores. It's important that the cardio be done at low intensity (so light jogging or walking or anything slow) if not then it might shift to your Glycogen muscle stores

[Isaac Jordan]

(05-16-2015 12:23 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 10:42 AM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 05:02 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 07:56 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

(05-11-2015 07:19 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

If you aren't getting any rashes or what have you from the BCAAs, then carry on taking it. But don't go work out fully fasted, take either 10g BCAAs or a have a small pre-workout meal (roughly 50g protein and 50g carbs as Martin suggests).

50gr of carbs? I eat less carbs in a whole day.

What is the reasoning behind this?

Carbohydrates are broken down into glucose after digestion. The presence of glucose in the bloodstream stimulates the pancreas to release insulin, which effectively shuts down fat burning in order to allow the body to burn the glucose instead.

More carbs = more insulin = less potential for fat burning

Eating 50g of carbs right before a workout means your body is going to be burning those for energy during the workout. Fasted workouts force the body to draw from its internal fat stores instead.

I thought we use the glycogen stored in our muscles for energy in the absence of outside carbs.

To quote Lyle McDonald's "The Stubborn Fat Solution":

Quote:

Fortunately glycogen depletion also increases fat utilization by the muscle, which increases how well your body can use fat for fuel. This is important both from the standpoint of fat loss and protein sparing because, the better your body can use fat for fuel, the less it will need to break down protein for energy.

By fasting prior to a workout, we force the body to use either stored glycogen, body fat, or protein stolen from existing muscle tissue. Taking 10g BCAAs 30 minutes before lifting, as per Martin's Lean Gains program, ensures that there are enough amino acids in the bloodstream to prevent the latter, and keeping to a low-carb diet in general helps to maximize usage of the former two, as after a few weeks of low-carb eating the body will have "switched on" the genes needed to use body fat/ketones as needed.

[JoyStick]

(05-06-2015 01:26 AM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

I don't eat on Sundays. After 3 or 4pm meal on Saturday I stop eating till Monday morning and hit the gym on Monday morning fasted. I get the best performance on metabolic conditioning workouts after that.

How do you deal with hunger?

[Chivas989]

(05-21-2015 11:47 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 01:26 AM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

I don't eat on Sundays. After 3 or 4pm meal on Saturday I stop eating till Monday morning and hit the gym on Monday morning fasted. I get the best performance on metabolic conditioning workouts after that.

How do you deal with hunger?

I personally drink tons of water.

[Isaac Jordan]

(05-21-2015 11:47 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 01:26 AM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

I don't eat on Sundays. After 3 or 4pm meal on Saturday I stop eating till Monday morning and hit the gym on Monday morning fasted. I get the best performance on metabolic conditioning workouts after that.

How do you deal with hunger?

Once you're fat-adapted hunger becomes more of a dull ache than an intense need. Eating a big meal full of quality protein and fat (say, a steak and veggies slathered in butter) forces your body to digest it over a long period of time, so that hunger feels less biting and 24-48 hour fasts become easier to perform.

When I DO get hungry, I find that drinking tea (unsweetened, of course) helps, as it tastes good and fills your stomach with something.

[Harvey Specter]

(05-21-2015 11:47 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 01:26 AM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

I don't eat on Sundays. After 3 or 4pm meal on Saturday I stop eating till Monday morning and hit the gym on Monday morning fasted. I get the best performance on metabolic conditioning workouts after that.

How do you deal with hunger?

It is pretty much 100% willpower. It does get much easier after the first week of so.

[Laurifer]

I've been on keto for about 6 months. I wasn't really watching my caloric in-take but I assume most of the time I was overeating. Though I was still in keto, I wasn't losing any weight, nor gaining.

I think I must have put on muscle and lost fat at the same time, though many say that isn't possible.

I've introduced intermittent fasting to my body and I am appearing much more lean in the mirror and I'm starting to read lighter on the scale.

My routine is usually as such:

Workout day: I eat a breakfast of bacon and eggs with a double espresso, workout, then eat a dinner of meat plus a ton of veggies + salad.

Non-workout day: Double espresso in the morning, fast all the way till dinner where I again eat meat with veggies and salad.

Even on workout days I'll often skip breakfast altogether to really try to burn fat.

I'm never usually hungry until right before dinner, around 7 or 8 PM. I drink lime water throughout the day which I find satiating.

[s3k]

Dealing with hunger:
-Increase protein intake
- Drink more water when you (think) you are hungry
- Eat green leafy fiber (lettuce)
- Drink (no more than 12 oz of diet soda) Caffeine doesn't matter, 0 calories does
- Chew on some sugar free gum

I personally eat ONCE a day and never get "hungry" during the 23.25 hours I am not eating. When I first begaun, I did confuse "hunger" with "thirst", than later found that my body was addicted to sugar and once eliminated 99% of sugar intake, that small "hunger" ache went away, forever.

[fortysix]

Im back on the IF bandwagon. Previously I wrote that I decided to stop due to suffering mental performance, hunger, and dizziness which was interfering with my lifestyle.

After re-evaluating, I realized that the issue was I simply was not taking in enough food during my eating window.

I increased my food intake, eliminated sugar, and added more oils and fatty foods. I threw in hardboiled eggs, avacados, lots of olive oil, and different cottage cheeses. I now feel fine during my 16 hour fast window.

The issue is going out to restaurants in the evening: They don't serve enough food.

BTW, for those that travel a lot, I have the following tip for staying on track (heard it from Ben Greenfield) - Always carry sardines and avacados with you - then, when you are at the airport or whichever travel break, goto starbucks and get one of their salads and dump some avacados and sardines on it.

[CodyB]

So I've just embarked upon my first journey into Intermittant Fasting. I'm adopting the Eat Stop Eat principles of a 24 hour fast twice-three times a week in controlled circumstances.

So this is what I envision achieving (let's see if I can stick to it)

Day 1
Minor caloric deficit, at my size I'm aiming for about 2,200 calories
150G protein
This day I Workout

Day 2
Biggish breakfast focus on proteins and fats. Piece of steak and 2 eggs, about 700 calories.
Small lunch focusing on complex carbs 400 calories or less
Aerobic activity like Bike or Basketball
Begin 24 hour fast at 4pm

Day 3
Sedentary/work up until fast is finished
Small meal at around 4pm aimed at maximising workout 500 calories
Workout
Shake 120 calories
After workout 'feast', 1,000 calories or thereabouts. Lot's of proteins and carbs
Small meal of about 500 calories

Day 4 - absolute rest day, 'cheat' a little bit early in the day by eating lots of fats/proteins hit a caloric surplus

day 5 - Cycle back to day 1 - repeat

Overall, on a weekly basis I'd consume on average 2,000 calories a day; maximising nutritional intake after workouts and exercise and putting enough fat and protein into my system to see me through the fast.

My question now is, is it worth it?

My weight right now is 98KG. I'm 182cm.

With all exercise and working out factored in (business generally isn't labour intensive) my daily maintenance is about 3,200 a day on average. This means on average I would lose 1.1KG a week.

A) would it be overly unhealthy to increase the caloric deficit? I would like to aim for 1.5KG but it seems somewhat extreme
B) Would I better off just sticking to a 2,000 calorie a day diet?
C) How could I improve it?

[Isaac Jordan]

(06-09-2015 02:02 PM)CodyB Wrote:  

A) would it be overly unhealthy to increase the caloric deficit? I would like to aim for 1.5KG but it seems somewhat extreme

1.5kg/week would be rather extreme, unless you're morbidly obese and your body's just aching to shed extra weight. I'd stick with your current plan; 24-hour fasting is hard enough as it is. Try it, and if you can handle it then modify your plan.

Quote:

B) Would I better off just sticking to a 2,000 calorie a day diet?

You mean, just cutting calories without fasting? Doubtful, as fasting is incredibly good for you.

Quote:

C) How could I improve it?

-On Day 2 you have a meal "focused on complex carbs". There's no need to ever "focus" on carbs, complex or not.

If you're aiming to lose body fat, stick to protein and fat with minimal carbs (vegetables and antioxidant-rich fruit like berries being the exceptions). It may be a bit rough transitioning to ketosis if you're used to eating lots of carbs every day, but fasting is going to be torturous if you're not fat-adapted. And besides, carbohydrates stimulate insulin production, which shuts down fat burning. Leave the carbs for post-workout.

-Speaking of workouts, on Day 3 you've got a meal planned prior to working out. If you can work out on an empty stomach, I'd recommend it. That way, your body is forced to pull from its internal stores for energy, and your post-workout calories will either be used for muscle repair or to refill glycogen stores. You don't want to promote insulin release prior to working out either, because again it kicks you out of ketosis and makes burning fat harder to do. Read up on Leangains for more information about fasted workouts and why they're so beneficial when it comes to shedding extra fat.

[jbkunt2]

I feel like this would work well with EC for a little appetite supresant...

[Beyond Borders]

^ Don't know about the rest of you guys, but I've been rolling my eyes at women for years who think they need a "diet pill" to lose weight, and I could care less how the diet pill works - it's the whole approach to life behind that thinking that gets to me.

I'm not meaning to "shame you" here by comparison to women, but to me relying on EC to "get through" intermittent fasting is the same idea and something we should avoid if possible.

For one thing, we should relish the deprivation that comes with intermittent fasting. We're grown men - we don't need pills to get through a few extra hours of lack in our lives, nor should we so willingly subscribe to that behavior. There's a lot to be said for reintroducing a bit of stoicism in your life. It builds character and creates huge effects in your life in other ways (by curbing the destructive tendency to overdo comfortable things).

Secondly, your appetite quickly supresses itself when you stop overloading on food. Whenever I notice I've put on some pounds again, as I did recently, it's usually because I've been overeating and getting carried away. One day of not eating, as I did yesterday, is all it takes to put my appetite back in check and start eating like I should again.

So no need to do an EC stack to make yourself less hungry. You just need to struggle a slight bit more for a day and the appetite puts itself in check and readjusts to the new routine. This may take a bit longer if you've never done it at all, but it still doesn't take long.

Finally, IF works well on its own. No need to complicate things. I'm not saying avoid caffeeine (I still drink black coffee when fasting), but the results IF has brought to a lot of people already speak for themselves.

[CaptainCrazy]

"Focused on complex carbs", "focused on simplex carbs", "take them before the workout", "take them after workout", "refill muscle glycogen", "don't refill muscle glycogen".

Fuck this shit. Fuck these carbs. You don't need them.

Eat fucking meat with leafy veggies and you'll be just OK. Hungry? Eat more fucking meat and leaves. When full - stop.

Don't eat before you workout in the morning. Yes, morning. You need to catch and kill your food before you can eat, homie.

Lift weights and do some fighter based workouts and you'll have a "body of a spartan".

[Glaucon]

My personal experiences with IF after doing it two years:

-There is no reason to overextend the fasting period from 15-16 hours. At first I tried to do 17-18 hours, but it burned me out quickly.
-My current feeding window is between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm. This is the best for me, as I usually go sleep early and get up early. Use the schedule that is the best for you, you need to experiment with it.
-IF does not help if you are eating junk food. Eating clean comes always first, IF and other advanced techniques later.
-I found IF made my body tolerate hunger much better, for fun I do a 25-30 hour fast few time a year, I am sure I would not be able to do it without IF.
-IF made me realize how much better training and hiking is on empty stomach.

[Nascimento]

Currently 1/3 of the way through a 36 hour fast.

My motivation besides fat loss this time around is an accurate weigh-in and progress pictures afterwards, when all is said and done.

Grinding the beans into a black coffee to start the day feels good.

[s3k]

Lettuce and minimal diet soda is ok during any mental appetite spike.

[Nascimento]

For some weird reason, last night I had serious trouble completing my 36 hour fast.

I woke up in the middle of the night with twitches, muscle spasms, and light-headedness. This was about 30 hours in.

I've done several 24 hour fasts with success in the past, and one 36 as well.

What gives?

I ate some Greek Yogourt and a granola bar to even things out. Might have been excessively low blood sugar? I felt fine after eating and fell back asleep shortly.

Oh well. I still weighed in at my lowest weight in the past year. I figure in 5-10 more pounds, I'll be at a 4-pack.

It's weird, before I started leaning out, I thought I only had about 10, 15 pounds at most to work through. I was seriously wrong. I'm almost at 20 lbs down, and I still got a bit more to go.

A good estimate is that I'm at 15% right now, which is probably the lowest body fat% I've had in years.

[whoishe]

Have some questions regarding protein shake vs post workout meal.

I plan to move all my workouts (3xCrossTraining + 2xCardio, one will be less intense, other more with sprints included) to morning and I will be doing them at the end of fasted state.

I never took protein shakes before, as usually Ive had a huge meals after workout done afternoon or during evening.

But now I am considering to check them out (got a few free coupons for them at my gym) and my knowledge with them is very limited, so:
1) If taking them, how long after it I should wait for post workout meal? Should I alter my meal somehow?
2) Should i take them after cardio? Intense or not.

I dont have a clear goal with my workouts, but I am losing weight since starting working out +doing IF in January.

[Beyond Borders]

(06-19-2015 08:15 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  

For some weird reason, last night I had serious trouble completing my 36 hour fast.

I woke up in the middle of the night with twitches, muscle spasms, and light-headedness. This was about 30 hours in.

I've done several 24 hour fasts with success in the past, and one 36 as well.

What gives?

I ate some Greek Yogourt and a granola bar to even things out. Might have been excessively low blood sugar? I felt fine after eating and fell back asleep shortly.

Oh well. I still weighed in at my lowest weight in the past year. I figure in 5-10 more pounds, I'll be at a 4-pack.

It's weird, before I started leaning out, I thought I only had about 10, 15 pounds at most to work through. I was seriously wrong. I'm almost at 20 lbs down, and I still got a bit more to go.

A good estimate is that I'm at 15% right now, which is probably the lowest body fat% I've had in years.

Were you drinking enough water?

[Nascimento]

(06-21-2015 08:05 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Were you drinking enough water?

That's a good point. I think I drank plenty during the morning but I forgot to drink at least one glass per hour in the evening.