[BortimusPrime]

As I sit here working at Starbucks, I'm mulling over a fleeting event that occurred a short while ago. A group of three people had come in, one male and two females. One of the females was hanging on to the male, and the male was fully decked out in douche regalia. (Graphic tee, graphic baseball cap, beard scruff, doing that constant chewing thing that's apparently the human equivalent to how bears drool constantly when they're in the rut) Anyways, he decided to stare me down as they came in, and I reflexively looked away.

Now, I'm aware of the inherent value of not provoking a pointless fight, esp. when there's nothing to fight over (his skanks didn't look particularly appealing), but it does irritate me that I responded in a beta fashion without even thinking about it. Has anyone else had to untrain themselves from this kind of behavior? Seems to be less of a fear response as opposed to just social conditioning to not do anything that might provoke a confrontation.

[MikeCF]

You got punked. The wolf showed his teeth, and your INSTINCT was to look down and away.

Go to a boxing gym.

In 6-12 months (if you don't quit, a huge if), that beta garbage will be out of your head.

[Tuthmosis]

If you fuck up like this again, you can always recover by pretending to get some napkins or sugar packets or whatever and "accidentally" graze him or, if you prefer, straight-up shoulder-check him. You can be like "my bad" in a half-ass tone that conveys disdain or, if you're a real fighter, "watch out, homie." Be ready for the sucker punch. Chances are he will get the message, though.

[joehoya]

I usually just keep my back straight, maintain eye contact, smile, and say "hi" or "hey man, whats up?". I learned this from one of the (now reformed) baddest motherfuckers I ever met.

By not looking down, you are not displaying submission. The smile displays both friendliness and complete lack of concern for his aggressive behavior. When a dude starts trying to stare you down, and you don't look the least bit concerned, it is confusing. The smile and hello gives him the opportunity to drop the aggression without losing face. The key is that you have to project confidence.

[WesternCancer]

If you look away try to look away slowly, in my opinion its more of a "ive seen the other male, he is no longer a threat im looking away now because im better" although if hes coming towards you or your group id maintain eye contact.

I had an encounter like Tuthmosis described, at a gay bar of all places (it was student/straight night). There are these 3 guys I see every time I go out, look alpha, but last time I saw one of the dudes ( a few times prior) he was making out with some manitee. ANYWAYS. I'm walking to the bathroom, see him, hes about the same height as me but bigger with a friend, I look them both in the eye, walk straight forward chin up chest out, i stiffen up and he yields when I walk into him (shoulders). I turn my head slowly and give a "I will fucking kill you" stare, with a sinister sneer. He turns around quickly is about to say something when his friend grabs his chest and pulls him back. Slow headturn back forward. Westerncancer-1 possiblealpha - 0. Later on I'm walking towards this girl I was dancing with before the bathroom, as I'm walking up to her he hooks his foot/leg around my foot/leg and tries to trip me/pull it out from under me. I quickly pull my foot out without flinching, I don't look back. Round 2 goes to westerncancer.

Key is stand your ground don't yield, maintain good posture, never turn towards the guy unless hes actually coming at you (or you could do some kind judo flip bullshit).

[Parlay44]

Good thread topic. I agree with everyone above. The guy was being possessive. He saw you eyeing up his girl and he felt the need to project a non-verbal threat to protect his property. Typical douche move. He does it because most guys are bitches and won't do anything.

Interestingly enough you can project any emotion verbally and non verbally. Do a google search and read up on Psychological Projection. I use projection all time. It's all about choosing which emotion you want the other person to feel and then you play on it to suit your needs.

90% of the emotions you feel aren't even yours. It's other people projecting them on you. Learn to block and control your sense of empathy and stop picking up on the negative vibe he's projecting.

The best example of projection is getting someone to do something for you by making them feel guilty. Guilt projects very easily.

Learn how to project positive emotions towards women and your game will improve like you've never experienced. Women are super empathic and can't help but pick up on it.

[BortimusPrime]

Haha, somehow I doubt a brawl would ensue at Starbucks. Although the barista I was chatting with later on complained that the whole group had stunk of vodka...in midafternoon.

Probably best response would have been to glare back and if he decided to escalate simply behave in a friendly manner to defuse it without standing down per se while making him look like a loony. But yeah, while I'd expect this sort of thing in say a nightclub or bar, it is unusual to have starbucks patrons react when I'm eyeing their women. What's really funny is when the girls eyes me back and the boyfriend is totally oblivious to the whole thing.

[BortimusPrime]

(01-23-2012 10:56 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Good thread topic. I agree with everyone above. The guy was being possessive. He saw you eyeing up his girl and he felt the need to project a non-verbal threat to protect his property. Typical douche move. He does it because most guys are bitches and won't do anything.

Interestingly enough you can project any emotion verbally and non verbally. Do a google search and read up on Psychological Projection. I use projection all time. It's all about choosing which emotion you want the other person to feel and then you play on it to suit your needs.

90% of the emotions you feel aren't even yours. It's other people projecting them on you. Learn to block and control your sense of empathy and stop picking up on the negative vibe he's projecting.

The best example of projection is getting someone to do something for you by making them feel guilty. Guilt projects very easily.

Learn how to project positive emotions towards women and your game will improve like you've never experienced. Women are super empathic and can't help but pick up on it.

I think this shit is 99% of the intial stage of learning game, i.e. getting into the right mindset.

[WanderingSoul]

(01-23-2012 07:41 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

You got punked. The wolf showed his teeth, and your INSTINCT was to look down and away.

Go to a boxing gym.

In 6-12 months (if you don't quit, a huge if), that beta garbage will be out of your head.

This. Boxing, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu are all great for self confidence, and fun as fuck. That confidence carries over to all facets of your life, including talking to women. The big thing is you have to actually LIKE training to stay motivated to go. Each have a huge dropout rate with people who want to be badasses, but don't really have the drive to stick with it. Pick the one that seems most interesting to you and give it a shot. They should have a free trial.

Personally, I like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu the most with boxing being a close second. Never really got the Muay Thai bug. And don't worry about being nervous your first time going to the gym, everyone is. All gyms I have trained at have been very chill.

One word of caution, don't sign up for some cardio boxing class at your local gym, go to an actual boxing gym if that is what you decide on. If your trainer is not running mits for you and not having you spar, you are not really training. You HAVE to spar to be able to put your training to use. But don't worry, sparring really isn't as terrifying as many people think it is.

[Spike]

(01-24-2012 12:40 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(01-23-2012 07:41 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

You got punked. The wolf showed his teeth, and your INSTINCT was to look down and away.

Go to a boxing gym.

In 6-12 months (if you don't quit, a huge if), that beta garbage will be out of your head.

This. Boxing, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu are all great for self confidence, and fun as fuck. That confidence carries over to all facets of your life, including talking to women. The big thing is you have to actually LIKE training to stay motivated to go. Each have a huge dropout rate with people who want to be badasses, but don't really have the drive to stick with it. Pick the one that seems most interesting to you and give it a shot. They should have a free trial.

Personally, I like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu the most with boxing being a close second. Never really got the Muay Thai bug. And don't worry about being nervous your first time going to the gym, everyone is. All gyms I have trained at have been very chill.

One word of caution, don't sign up for some cardio boxing class at your local gym, go to an actual boxing gym if that is what you decide on. If your trainer is not running mits for you and not having you spar, you are not really training. You HAVE to spar to be able to put your training to use. But don't worry, sparring really isn't as terrifying as many people think it is.

Rio, is that you in your avatar picture ?, i always assumed it was some football player or something and never really looked at it. Now that you talk about Jiu Jitsu ( blue belt myself, japanese style, a lifetime ago) it might be you.

[MMM]

My buddy, who is a bonafide badass, tells me how polite and chill the guys at his boxing gym are. Guess in that environment, any a-holes get corrected quick.

[Pilgrim37]

Tommy Morrison talks about this a bit.

[Alfonzo]

I know how you feel . In my opinion avoid the conflict . LIke you said you won't win anything .
I do boxing and I put away my ego way more than before , probably because I know that I can knock somebody out with one punch . If the guy attack you ,well defend your self if not don't give him any power or importance . You will just have negatif benefit from that . You can fuck up your clothes,watch ,jewellery, broke the guy nose,jaw and take you in court , have a police ticket all that for you pride .

[46.]

Good stuff in this thread. I think the key to moving past fear is to learning how to read the situation. First, the situational; you're in a Starbucks. Highly unlikely anything will go down there. An aggro punk doesn't want a problem with the Starbucks Corp- it's not a parking lot after the club closes. There are bigger consequences. I'm actually writing this from a Starbucks and its hard to imagine something going down.

Then, read the dude. Obviously he fashions himself as a tough guy, but is he really going to pop off in a Starbucks and risk the police showing up in a business to take him away from his beloved skank? No- of course not. Is a posse with him? Is he drunk/high that could signal a bigger threat? No. It's all posturing. Just stand your ground and provide a socially acceptable way for both of you to “Save face” and the issue should go away. In my experiences, the stuff to fear usually happens with a group of guys, not a one on one situation.

Finally, think of the consequences. The worst thing that could happen, maybe a 1% chance, is getting punched. Big deal. I've come enjoy getting hit every few years because it always represents another fear being overcome. It's never as bad as your fear dictates it will be as long as you get a shot in too.

Funny a couple of weeks ago I was testing my ability to read a physical situation (how you know you're reading this forum too much); my party was waiting for a table in a lounge when all of the sudden Dude A and Dude B blow by telling Dude C, F you, F you, etc. Mind, all this is happening right in front of me, two of my friends, and 4 chicks. So as Dudes A and B are leaving, the Dude C decides he wants to go after Dudes A and B. None of them were going to do anything to scuff up their lame blazers in a high-end lounge. It was annoying so I grabbed Dude C and told him, “Relax Man, its all good,” holding him back a little like “Man, you're such a bad MF you need to be held back before you kill those guys” Funny how these morons like being held back before they kill someone. Everyone saved face and that was that. More importantly... women were asking me why I intervened, etc. and told 'em I didn't want people fighting in front of them.

And this isn't to be a tough guy- I'm a black dude from Chicago so I've seen where stuff really jumps off and you don't want to be around. When you substitute “3 homies up to no good” or “Latin King” for “Dude C in lounge,” I'm OUT. Ya''ll can call it beta carratine, beta blockers, or Omega Z Amino acids or whatever, but I'm OUT.

[BortimusPrime]

Interesting points, although I think people are getting a little too focused on the fighting part of it. This is Starbucks after all.

I think my question is more oriented towards people who are naturally shy to begin with, and how to get over that reflexive reaction. I guess I'm still at a point where I have to keep consciously reminding myself to maintain alpha body language and mannerisms, so it's easily fucked up if I get caught off guard. One doesn't expect a stare down at coffee shop near a yuppie mall. The martial arts for confidence suggestion is a good one, although I think I'd go for one that doesn't involve getting hit in the head, maybe that karate class Kramer took where he was fighting kids...

[YoungGunner]

(01-24-2012 06:39 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 12:40 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(01-23-2012 07:41 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

You got punked. The wolf showed his teeth, and your INSTINCT was to look down and away.

Go to a boxing gym.

In 6-12 months (if you don't quit, a huge if), that beta garbage will be out of your head.

This. Boxing, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu are all great for self confidence, and fun as fuck. That confidence carries over to all facets of your life, including talking to women. The big thing is you have to actually LIKE training to stay motivated to go. Each have a huge dropout rate with people who want to be badasses, but don't really have the drive to stick with it. Pick the one that seems most interesting to you and give it a shot. They should have a free trial.

Personally, I like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu the most with boxing being a close second. Never really got the Muay Thai bug. And don't worry about being nervous your first time going to the gym, everyone is. All gyms I have trained at have been very chill.

One word of caution, don't sign up for some cardio boxing class at your local gym, go to an actual boxing gym if that is what you decide on. If your trainer is not running mits for you and not having you spar, you are not really training. You HAVE to spar to be able to put your training to use. But don't worry, sparring really isn't as terrifying as many people think it is.

Rio, is that you in your avatar picture ?, i always assumed it was some football player or something and never really looked at it. Now that you talk about Jiu Jitsu ( blue belt myself, japanese style, a lifetime ago) it might be you.

That's a picture of Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza, one of the best brazilian-jiu jitsu practitioners in the world.

[Andy_B]

Your reaction should depend on your status relative to his. If you're wearing a suit, his actions shouldn't register, because to be affected at all would just make you look trashy, so you should just ignore him. If you are also of the graphic tee/graphic cap wearing ilk, make your eye contact match his, but don't go over the top with it.

[velkrum]

(01-23-2012 07:35 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

Seems to be less of a fear response as opposed to just social conditioning to not do anything that might provoke a confrontation.

Nah, dude..you looked down out of fear. (self preservation)

but you know what...it's totally cool.

I could give you a long winded response but I'll just give you the easy answer.

Lift weights and watch your confidence (and physique) GROW.

p.s. don't try and start fights with douches*

[MikeCF]

(01-24-2012 06:29 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

Nah, dude..you looked down out of fear. (self preservation)

but you know what...it's totally cool.

I could give you a long winded response but I'll just give you the easy answer.

Lift weights and watch your confidence (and physique) GROW.

p.s. don't try and start fights with douches*

Right.

Guys think that if you say, "Lift, box," then you're saying to fight.

But it's not like that.

When you reach a certain level, although you'll fight, you're just as likely to talk it out. Not to avoid a fight from fear, but because it's only midnight and you're there to pull.

A guy with a "razor beard," fat in an Affliction shirt, walked up to the bar where I was. The bartender went to him first.

Fat guy says, "What, you're gong to just let me order first? You should be a real man and check me."

I just started laughing. It wasn't contrived. I was legitimately laughing, as if at a comedy club.

I would have beat the fuck out of that guy. He wasn't even in my league of guys I'd fight.

He was an Affliction poser. But he had enough of a repilian brain to sense danger.

He was dumb founded. My laugh scared the shit out of him, and he scrambled away without even looking back.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-24-2012 06:56 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 06:29 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

Nah, dude..you looked down out of fear. (self preservation)

but you know what...it's totally cool.

I could give you a long winded response but I'll just give you the easy answer.

Lift weights and watch your confidence (and physique) GROW.

p.s. don't try and start fights with douches*

Right.

Guys think that if you say, "Lift, box," then you're saying to fight.

But it's not like that.

When you reach a certain level, although you'll fight, you're just as likely to talk it out. Not to avoid a fight from fear, but because it's only midnight and you're there to pull.

A guy with a "razor beard," fat in an Affliction shirt, walked up to the bar where I was. The bartender went to him first.

Fat guy says, "What, you're gong to just let me order first? You should be a real man and check me."

I just started laughing. It wasn't contrived. I was legitimately laughing, as if at a comedy club.

I would have beat the fuck out of that guy. He wasn't even in my league of guys I'd fight.

He was an Affliction poser. But he had enough of a repilian brain to sense danger.

He was dumb founded. My laugh scared the shit out of him, and he scrambled away without even looking back.

Yeah, that is the thing that people don't understand about training to box or martial arts.

If you train and you have a brain, you have the confidence to walk away.

That is true confidence.

I think I have told this story before.

Outside an event, one of my friends was beefing with some drunk jacka*ss outside over cabs.

My friend is small, but can fight. Trains.

The drunk jack*ss was big, bulked up, but an idiot. You know, Affliction/Ed Hardy dork.

The guy stepped over the line.

My friend cracked him.

Jack*ss gets KO'd and head hits the concrete.

Concussion.

My friend goes to jail for 3 months (long story, my friend didn't follow my advice on lawyers, but that is another story).

Bottom line: walk away.

In street fights, even the winner ends up losing.

[G Trooper]

There's some nice dominance displays in this thread...

I've never told Mixx this, but whenever him and I go out trooping he displays several natural actions of dominance. Off the top of my head, whenever a douchey guy tries to cut in front of us to get a drink at the bar or in line for a club he doesn't REACT and go down to his level. Instead, he'll let him go and do his thing...Mixx knows he is higher value than that guy.

Also, if we are talking to a set of ladies and a random guy tries to display that he is more Alpha than Mixx (impossible btw) by trying to bring us down or poke fun ... Mixx will put him in check and check him hard. He's taught me that instead of picking a fight, you can handle people verbally with your WORDS.

This segways into his interactions with a women. If a girl is acting snobby or bitchy (almost too common here in Miami), he will be the first one to call her out on her shit. And many times, after putting her in check ... she'll come around and be more open and friendly. I can't tell you guys how many times i've seen some hottie act bitchy or tell Mixx she has a boyfriend, then 5 minutes later give him her number .... and BOOM, he bangs her that night or a couple days later.

[Duke Castile]

You are still developing your confidence, you are right, you have to consciously make yourself keep your "alpha" posture. What will help your confidence is learning from "alpha" males like a boxing gym or mma gym as already recommended. What you will find is that the biggest badasses aren't walking around doing what that guy did to you.

Those guys are clowns, they are tough until you check them.

Since you were working, what you should have done is this; maintain eye contact, give him the upward head nod with the deadpan pokerface stare, then ask "Can I help you?" or "Do I know you or something?" I promise mr ed hardy would stumble over his words or he wouldn't say anything but keep up the maddog thing going. Which is when you say "o...kay...when you figure it out let me know" then you carry on with whatever you're doing.

This reflex to look away is not going to just leave on it's on until you reprogram yourself. I'm guessing you look away from girls too on occasion. In both instances it is not good. Once you reach the point where you can maintain eye contact and not feel uncomfortable, you will know your inner game has reached a new level.

Repeat: Being able to handle yourself physically is a very big confidence booster. I can't imagine walking around not knowing if I could defend myself.

[WesternCancer]

(01-24-2012 08:10 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 06:56 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(01-24-2012 06:29 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

Nah, dude..you looked down out of fear. (self preservation)

but you know what...it's totally cool.

I could give you a long winded response but I'll just give you the easy answer.

Lift weights and watch your confidence (and physique) GROW.

p.s. don't try and start fights with douches*

Right.

Guys think that if you say, "Lift, box," then you're saying to fight.

But it's not like that.

When you reach a certain level, although you'll fight, you're just as likely to talk it out. Not to avoid a fight from fear, but because it's only midnight and you're there to pull.

A guy with a "razor beard," fat in an Affliction shirt, walked up to the bar where I was. The bartender went to him first.

Fat guy says, "What, you're gong to just let me order first? You should be a real man and check me."

I just started laughing. It wasn't contrived. I was legitimately laughing, as if at a comedy club.

I would have beat the fuck out of that guy. He wasn't even in my league of guys I'd fight.

He was an Affliction poser. But he had enough of a repilian brain to sense danger.

He was dumb founded. My laugh scared the shit out of him, and he scrambled away without even looking back.

Yeah, that is the thing that people don't understand about training to box or martial arts.

If you train and you have a brain, you have the confidence to walk away.

That is true confidence.

I think I have told this story before.

Outside an event, one of my friends was beefing with some drunk jacka*ss outside over cabs.

My friend is small, but can fight. Trains.

The drunk jack*ss was big, bulked up, but an idiot. You know, Affliction/Ed Hardy dork.

The guy stepped over the line.

My friend cracked him.

Jack*ss gets KO'd and head hits the concrete.

Concussion.

My friend goes to jail for 3 months (long story, my friend didn't follow my advice on lawyers, but that is another story).

Bottom line: walk away.

In street fights, even the winner ends up losing.

Yeah I had a friend fight a guy, he broke a few of the guys teeth, but they cut my friends knuckles/hand. shit got hella infected and he couldnt work for a while because of it. Ended up fucking him out of thousands in lost pay and medical bills.

[Only One Man]

This is a great thread by the way.

So a few years back while I was in college, before I knew about this blog or much about game, I banged this girl one night at a party she and her roommates threw and then I banged her the weekend after that but that was as far as it went because I wasn't very good at sex, she was really hot and popular, and I'm guessing I didn't fuck her to her liking.

I had been to a few of her parties before all this and had met several of her male friends, all of who seemed cool with me. A week or two after I banged this girl, I woke up on a Saturday morning to see I had a voice mail from the girl and that she had called me at like 3 in the morning the night before. I listened to the message, and instead of her, it was a couple of her guy friends who had gotten a hold of her phone. They left me a message (super drunk) calling me a pussy and a faggot and stuff like that. Needless to say, I was pissed and I knew who it was, but it wasn't the end of the world and I didn't see a reason to try to track them down or anything.

About a month later, I ran into those two guys at a party that a buddy of mine threw. I showed up by myself and they both saw me right away and came right over saying "What's up man" and acting all cool like they never left me that message. I immediately looked at both of them and said "Don't you ever fucking call me from someone else's phone and leave a bullshit message like that. What the fuck is your problem." Now both of these guys were bigger than me and probably could have both kicked my ass and I was by myself, but they immediately apologized. They said they were drunk and joking around and stuff like that so I eventually accepted their apology, but when I was telling them off, I could see both of them were nervous and intimidated.

I think threatening someone when they try to pull a dominance move isn't the way to go. You just have to keep your cool and be firm that what they're doing or did isn't cool without mentioning fighting.

[Kona]

(01-23-2012 07:35 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

As I sit here working at Starbucks, I'm mulling over a fleeting event that occurred a short while ago.

You mean they don't have a shotgun behind the counter at Starbucks?

Seriously, don't sweat that guy at all. Just spit in his latte and move on.

Aloha!