[_DC_]

I think I've had an epiphany, and thoughts/comments are solicited:

Is approach anxiety, namely, the fear of approaching women and rejection, manifestly different than general social anxiety? I think much of the advice for overcoming AA is specific to attractive women people want to sleep with, and this is different than general anxiety.

I'm very confident in myself and have solid inner game. I'm certain that the vast majority of girls that I talk to would be glad that I approached them. I've slept with several attractive girls and am fairly smooth once comfortable with somebody. Yet, around new people I freeze, even after a friend has opened a girl. I really wish I could "not give a fuck" but for reasons I cannot understand, I'm very "in my head" and constantly am nervous in situations with strangers (such as bars). This feeling is only heightened now that I'm not drinking for a few months. I constantly feel on edge.

A lot of advice on the forum talks about getting over AA by not worrying what girls think about you, particularly not taking something personally. Like, "oh no, this hot girl turned me away, my confidence is crushed etc."). I feel like my confidence wouldn't be shaken at all. I'm not protecting my ego by not approaching.

I realized that I freeze, am nervous, tense up, IN GENERAL. I have the same exact feelings toward any random guy or a butt ugly girl. I have a hypersensitive awareness of peoples perceptions of me, real or imagined.

Has anybody been prescribed anything for social anxiety, such as Xanax? Is it effective? I've tried some herbal medication but it hasn't been that effective. Drinking can help, though its a double edge sword: For every night I'm social and less anxious, I'll get fairly severe anxiety. I've simply walked out of bars before without saying bye to people.. just an overload of anxiety.

[Spike]

I have/had a similar case to yours. Don't feel comfortable around new people sometimes. Hitting the bottle always helped me. But be moderate in your drinking.

[Deluge]

If you suspect you have social anxiety, it would be worth seeing a professional about it. Self-medicating with Xanax might not be the best idea if you don't know what exactly is wrong.

[iknowexactly]

Xanax is pretty addictive. I was involved in a lawsuit once and I had to take it to keep functioning at work because I was horribly anxious. After a couple of weeks the legal situation was removed, but I still want to keep taking that stuff.

It also changes the way your nervous system works in ways that are too complicated to go into here ( I'm not a neuropsychiatrist) some of which may include reduced memory I believe.

Hardly any drug just does the one thing you want and nothing bad. There's always some negative.
I've ranted about booze elsewhere, I'd guess booze has ruined the lives of more geniuses, and that hasn't been pointed out because it's all legal and normal.

I have some knowledge of psychological principles, and there is a very simple, drug free, low stress way to reduce approach avoidance. It also has the advantage of being usable without professional help to some degree.

It's called "behavioral shaping."

The simplest way to put it is "Successive approximations of the desired behavior. "

For me the problem was opening my mouth for that first word after an IOI from a chick.

I just trained myself in the EE place I'm in and it's working great. I have programmed myself so
anytime an attractive woman passes on the street and sustains eye contact, I say "Hi" or "Hello".

I'm not stopping and talking to many yet, unless there's a social support framework ( like she's a barista and I have a plausible subject to ramble on) but like any skill you acquire it gradually. ( And BIG THANKS to Roosh for recognizing elderly rambling as the supremely subtle and sophisticated gentle gaming technique it is.)

You don't just "man up" and start playing a Beethoven violin concerto. It takes planning, practice and time. Yes there are "naturals" at gaming, singing, perhaps acting, but comparing yourself to them can be harmful-- you may just see yourself as MORE inadequate.

Here's how I did it, you can create the successive steps any way you like.

In my city, women would walk by that were really attractive and made eye contact.

1) It was hard for me to make a sound. So I started just saying "Hi" very softly, they probably were uncertain that I was even saying anything.

2) At the same time I would practice saying "Hi" louder when there wasn't a woman in front of me. I'd deepen my voice, make it more resonant. So I was approximating as best I could, IN the situation, as well as rehearsing outside of it.

(There is also something called "covert rehearsal"; which just means visualizing yourself (in detail) doing the desired behavior and succeeding.
This is used by elite level athletes, where the differences in physical ability are often minute.)

3) I walk around for hours in my city, probably almost 20 hours per week; passing dozens of 7+ women who make eye contact.
I gradually increased the VOICE volume at which I said "Hi" until now it's obvious I'm talking to them.

4) After about 10 days of this, I now say "Hi" or "hello" pretty audibly and virtually automatically. I've been a bit surprised sometimes when a woman comes around a corner, I have almost no time to react, and my mouth says "Hi" hahahha.

5) Now that I'm talking, i think the neXt step I'll take is learning to stop and see if she stops as well.

Here's where the shaping comes in. I feel intimidated right now to just stop cold after saying "hi", it feels pretty aggressive to me.
And since I'm the only trainee here, that's important.

All you bold guys who want to tell me "Oh just do it,"-- everyone's heard that 100 times. If that worked it would have worked already for me. What I'm doing here is outlining how to achieve things if you don't like or want to "just do it" all at once.

So as an example (I am trying to describe the process of making a behavior plan for yourself, your exact problem may be different. ) --How do I start to stop to see who'e ready to talk?

GRADUAL APPROXIMATION OF THE DESIRED BEHAVIOR

I'll start slowing down after I say hi. Look around. Then I'll stop, but not "on a dime"

Soon I'll be stopping like a real agressive player right in the middle of the street!

If you find you can't do the step you want to do, back up.

For instance, say you can't get the word "hi" out of your mouth when she passes, even at a low volume.

Just back up to a step you CAN do.

For instance, you could just move your jaw and make a slight humming noise she can't even hear.

BUT YOU'LL BE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

There is a hugely important thing that would happen when you learned to simply move your jaw; even though the woman may not
even know you did anything:
That is called "Effect of Mastery"
Now that you've achieved SOMETHING, you have a concrete example proving you can control your own behavior.
In essence, you can do what you want. This makes everything after this easier, and easier, and easier.

You have to START somewhere, but you don't have to STAY there.

[Walderschmidt]

(01-21-2012 07:07 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Xanax is pretty addictive....

...You have to START somewhere, but you don't have to STAY there.

Spot on.

+1

Walderschmidt

[Mr.GM]

I have a cousin that started taking acting classes and he really got more confortable in social situations.
Besides professional counceling, maybe thats something that you should take a look at it.

[MrXY]

Excellent response iknowexactly, I think a lot of guys will find it useful.

DC, you are perceptive to point out there is a difference between approach anxiety and general social anxiety, I really think this is the case.

There is a theory out there that explains what's happening with approach anxiety which goes like this- for hundreds of thousand of years humans lived in small bands, usually numbering about 50-100 people. Anytime they encountered a stranger they were at a significant risk that the encounter could turn into violence in one way or another-tribal animosity, competition for resources, competition for women, etc. Evolution led to the creation of an inhibitory mechanism - serious anxiety- any time there was the prospect of meeting a stranger. This protected people from jumping recklessly into stranger encounters in which they could be seriously hurt or killed and thus increased their chance of survival.
We still retain that instinct and it still protects us today- most people still feel their hackles go up when approached by a random stranger in a public place
But in the pickup scenario, the instinct is dysfunctional-the cute girl is no threat to you ( unless she has a disease) but yet you still feel that ancient anxiety. Once you understand the source of this anxiety and accept that it is just a feeling that is intended to help you, not a weakness, it becomes much easier to override the feeling and act on the approach.

[silent_scope]

I've been basically following the stuff iknowexactly laid out up there, but without that degree of detail. I worked up to the point where I make eye contact and speak to women, but I generally don't get much further than that, unless I've been drinking. Thinking up something to say beyond that is rather difficult for me, unless there's a built-in common ground to discuss things. Even then I get stuck and to compound the issue, most women will not engage or help move a conversation along even if she likes you initially.

Example, I sing karaoke almost every week. Last time I went out, I did a couple songs I went to the bar to get a beer. While I was waiting for the bartender to come around, this chick, a 6, basically opened me and said, "I loved your selections, you sing really good!" We high-fived and I said "Thanks!", turned to the bartender and ordered my drink. In the moment, I couldn't figure out where to go from there, and she was clearly waiting for me to say something else.

I was looking into taking acting classes because I felt it would help me in social situations. Damn sure can't hurt.

[Snipes]

(01-21-2012 11:45 AM)MrXY Wrote:  

Excellent response iknowexactly, I think a lot of guys will find it useful.

DC, you are perceptive to point out there is a difference between approach anxiety and general social anxiety, I really think this is the case.

There is a theory out there that explains what's happening with approach anxiety which goes like this- for hundreds of thousand of years humans lived in small bands, usually numbering about 50-100 people. Anytime they encountered a stranger they were at a significant risk that the encounter could turn into violence in one way or another-tribal animosity, competition for resources, competition for women, etc. Evolution led to the creation of an inhibitory mechanism - serious anxiety- any time there was the prospect of meeting a stranger. This protected people from jumping recklessly into stranger encounters in which they could be seriously hurt or killed and thus increased their chance of survival.
We still retain that instinct and it still protects us today- most people still feel their hackles go up when approached by a random stranger in a public place
But in the pickup scenario, the instinct is dysfunctional-the cute girl is no threat to you ( unless she has a disease) but yet you still feel that ancient anxiety. Once you understand the source of this anxiety and accept that it is just a feeling that is intended to help you, not a weakness, it becomes much easier to override the feeling and act on the approach.

I've heard a similar theory that approach anxiety specifically (not general social anxiety) is due to the fact that in the EEA the attractive women were "owned" by the alpha males. Approaching an attractive woman would be likely to enrage the alpha male of the tribe and cause him to get violent towards you. The adrenaline rush caused by approaching is in this way a natural fight-or-flight mechanism because you instinctively know that shit is about to go down.

This means that approaching a woman in calm, relaxed way shows that you are the alpha, since you don't fear retaliation from any other man when you approach an attractive woman.

This instinct is also maladaptive in modern society, since usually nobody will try to kick your ass just for talking to an attractive woman.

[speakeasy]

(01-21-2012 01:52 PM)silent_scope Wrote:  

I've been basically following the stuff iknowexactly laid out up there, but without that degree of detail. I worked up to the point where I make eye contact and speak to women, but I generally don't get much further than that, unless I've been drinking. Thinking up something to say beyond that is rather difficult for me, unless there's a built-in common ground to discuss things. Even then I get stuck and to compound the issue, most women will not engage or help move a conversation along even if she likes you initially.

Example, I sing karaoke almost every week. Last time I went out, I did a couple songs I went to the bar to get a beer. While I was waiting for the bartender to come around, this chick, a 6, basically opened me and said, "I loved your selections, you sing really good!" We high-fived and I said "Thanks!", turned to the bartender and ordered my drink. In the moment, I couldn't figure out where to go from there, and she was clearly waiting for me to say something else.

I was looking into taking acting classes because I felt it would help me in social situations. Damn sure can't hurt.

I think that happens to everyone sometimes. I hate when I miss a good opportunity because my brain won't kick into gear when I need it.

In your scenario above, rather than the high five, should've probably given her a hug while saying thanks to get the kino going. One of those hugs where you put your hand on the small of her back and rock her a little. Then said, "well then you should do a duet with me". Then you could've started playing a guessing game of choosing what songs you guys would sound great singing together. That would've bought you more time.

[Menace]

AA and SA/GA are different. I often suffer from the former but pretty much never the latter. Roosh discussed the evolutionary reasons for AA in Day Bang.

One tip about doing day game I got from someone who's amazing at it is to not do it alone. Some people can, but for the majority it is far too difficult to retain an open and social state. A buddy will help immensely.

[OGNorCal707]

"I realized that I freeze, am nervous, tense up, IN GENERAL. I have the same exact feelings toward any random guy or a butt ugly girl. I have a hypersensitive awareness of peoples perceptions of me, real or imagined."

This right here, you have issues with anxiety, but it sounds like you're a little bit in denial about it. You have a form of social anxiety it is a personality disorder, it appears in the DSM-IV the handbook that all psychotherapists use to make diagnoses.

I was diagnosed with SAD (social anxiety disorder) when I was in high school, I was prescribed Effexor, I highly recommend NOT taking prescription drugs to overcome your problem, it is simply going to mask the anxiety, but it will always be there under the surface.

Alcohol will definitely loosen you up in social situations, but it is a crutch and something you don't want to have to rely on. I think really the only way to overcome your anxiety is to face it head on and push yourself out of your comfort zone, which will be very difficult, nerve racking and uncomfortable at first.

Start with making small talk with strangers, the work on introducing yourself, talk to guys and girls you are less attracted to in social situations, to break the ice and warm up.

Eventually you got to jump in the deep end and approach attractive women, get over you fear of rejection, you say that you got "solid inner game", but you can't possibly have solid inner game if you fear approaching and rejection.

[_DC_]

(01-21-2012 03:07 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

"I realized that I freeze, am nervous, tense up, IN GENERAL. I have the same exact feelings toward any random guy or a butt ugly girl. I have a hypersensitive awareness of peoples perceptions of me, real or imagined."

This right here, you have issues with anxiety, but it sounds like you're a little bit in denial about it. You have a form of social anxiety it is a personality disorder, it appears in the DSM-IV the handbook that all psychotherapists use to make diagnoses.

I was diagnosed with SAD (social anxiety disorder) when I was in high school, I was prescribed Effexor, I highly recommend NOT taking prescription drugs to overcome your problem, it is simply going to mask the anxiety, but it will always be there under the surface.

Alcohol will definitely loosen you up in social situations, but it is a crutch and something you don't want to have to rely on. I think really the only way to overcome your anxiety is to face it head on and push yourself out of your comfort zone, which will be very difficult, nerve racking and uncomfortable at first.

Start with making small talk with strangers, the work on introducing yourself, talk to guys and girls you are less attracted to in social situations, to break the ice and warm up.

Eventually you got to jump in the deep end and approach attractive women, get over you fear of rejection, you say that you got "solid inner game", but you can't possibly have solid inner game if you fear approaching and rejection.

I guess what I mean by solid inner game is that I have a lot going for me (career, looks, etc.) and I have no reason to have anxiety for any objective reason.

At far as medication is concerned, I see SAD like I see ADD. It effects a minority of the population, but is sizable, let's say like 10% (as far as who is prescribed medication) but it could really be an even larger chunk. The question about whether somebody *needs* medication has always been funny to me. I think it really comes down to a simple fact: Are you happier/better/more successful with the medication, being mindful of the ever-present negative effects?

All through college people took Adderall to do better in school, and guess what, it worked. These people might not have had clinical ADD (and even that's subjective) but their life was better because of taking the drug. It helped them accomplish something that their personality wasn't otherwise suited for, such as buckling down and studying hardcore.

To me this is a good analog, as some peoples personalities are just not suited for meeting strangers because of significant anxiety. They have an option to take a drug which alters their personality to an extent. If the negative effects (including tolerance, withdrawal etc.) outweigh the positive effects, then you can opt out and try something different.

Some people obviously have an actual debilitating problem with SAD (just like with ADD) where it strongly effects their basic day-to-day interactions. I've read forums of people who are too anxious to go to the grocery store, call a service number, answer their door etc. My case is much less severe than this.

But in milder cases, what's the harm in trying something out? Apparently its abuse potential is low. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanax

[OGNorCal707]

I see your point, but my point, is that you're not overcoming and conquering your issues, when you rely on a "magic pill" to "change your personality" or deal with your issues. To me, this is an easy cop out, and personally I am against prescription drugs unless they are absolutely necessary (people with schizophrenia, extreme bi-polar, etc.)

I think waaay too many people just pop a xanex, prozac, adderol, or whatever, because they are not willing to put in the work, and the discomfort that is necessary to overcome their issue(s). Therefore, the issue always remains and persists under the surface, it's there and never really goes away, it just gets masked and "swept under the rug" when you use your "magic pill". What are you going to do without your "magic pill" what is your life reduced to, are you going to depend on it your whole life?

Now I am by no means perfect, as no one is, but I have come a long way with dealing with my social anxiety, compared to how I was in the past, I am tempted to say that I have overcome it 100%, which is not true, but I have been able to get a handle on it and how it effects my life. I used to be afraid of introducing myself to new people, making eye contact with strangers, and even something as trivial as making small talk with the cute girl working the check out aisle in the grocery store. Now none of these things are an issue in my life. I still get a bit nervous and have anxiety when I see a hot woman I am really attracted to, but I push myself to go talk to her, because that's what you got to do in life, if you want to achieve your goals and obtain what you desire.

If I were you, I'd seek out some psycho-therapy, but I have a few suggestions: first do NOT go to a psychiatrist (they are just drug pushers), next ask around do some online research (yelp) and try to find out who is a good psychologist, next commit yourself to at least three sessions with the psychotherapist.

Iknowexactly has some good advice, re-read his post and put his advice into action. Be real with yourself and set clear goals for overcoming your anxiety, you will never reach your potential if you don't. Finally, I don't think you fully understand the concept of inner-game, having a good job and handsome looks have nothing to do with inner game, inner game is all about what you believe and how you feel about yourself. You can make a million dollars a year and look like Brad Pitt, but if you are too afraid to approach a woman, fear rejection, or care what people think about you, than you do NOT have solid inner game.

Hope this helps...

[iknowexactly]

(01-21-2012 01:52 PM)silent_scope Wrote:  

I've been basically following the stuff iknowexactly laid out up there, but without that degree of detail. I worked up to the point where I make eye contact and speak to women, but I generally don't get much further than that, unless I've been drinking. ......


....this chick, a 6, basically opened me and said, "I loved your selections, you sing really good!" We high-fived and I said "Thanks!", turned to the bartender and ordered my drink. In the moment, I couldn't figure out where to go from there, ....

This is a great description of where you're at right now. You're doing pretty well, able to respond to interest.

Like Roosh describes in Day Game, you could ramble at this point, then later ask her what she likes
"Oh I love karaoke, it lets me be creative a little, it's fun to express yourself. <wait---respond to her thread-->"

But, if you clam up here. we've got to get you to OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND SPEAK. She's depending on you to do it .

This is a case where having a totally scripted first line so you won't fumble, then a simple branching choice based on her response, will work.

Whenever a woman opens you:


(I'm going to list an example of a script you could create for yourself. It's actually better if you
make one up for yourself, it'll be more natural and and you'll remember it more easily.)
(If you do covert rehearsal, imagining the following like a little TV show with you succeeding. )

======================

----Her: You did great at karaoke!!

2) ----You: "Thanks. What do you like to do for fun?"


(It's better to ramble so she's not on the spot, but silence is death.)

----Her: blah blah

You:
3a) If you like similar things- "I like to Blah blah too. The Last time I blah blah'd I blah blah."

3b) If you like opposite things: ( Let 's say she wants to sky dive--scares me shitless)
"Oh I never did that!! You've got courage! What's it like/What would it be like.."

You could have that small response script ready, for ANYTIME they say something to open you. It's not rude or anything.

At this point, if you PAY ATTENTION to what she says, you might either have:

4a) A question about something she said. Like "how does tandem jumping work."?
4b) A comment: Like " I like riding bikes too. The mountains are the most fun for me. "

Then Roosh's DROPPING BAIT is the next step, I don't get a commission on his books but he's made indirect game for non-extroverts about as painless and effective as I've seen it.

In my view, since I am a LTR guy eventually, you actually have to find the person interesting so conversation flows naturally. But this could take a couple meetings or more.

===============
This may seem like a tiny detail, a tiny step, that's the key. It's small, and you know you can do it based on your current level of skills.

It's almost harmful when naturals say stuff like "Just talk to her", unaware that some people are less talented at spontaneity.

You might have to build that house brick by brick, while they just throw it up with no planning.

It's the process of carefully _forcing_ yourself to go one step further each time.

Successive approximations of the desired behavior.

Now that's for when they open YOU..
If you are opening them, Roosh's Day Game lays it out pretty well so that you could write your own scrit based on his implicit model of comfort building.

For instance, asking about a pet store seems phony to me, where I live finding a cafe not filled with smokers is more important. So I can model the ramble based on that.

This is all against a backdrop of value evaluation she is doing, so you've go to be the guy she can show off, but it sounds like you're young and in the USA if you look decent and are young you can be "cool."

[RichieP]

I'm the same. Have pushed through it and got lots of lays regardless, but am STILL "generally uptight" around EVERYONE. It's a problem for networking, business, work, making friends, hanging out in mixed groups... anything involving people, lol.

Funny that I'm actually more comfortable grabbing a girl and escalating & getting sexual at 1am in a club (because I've done it alot and it's anonymous, physical, dark and by 1am in a club you feel like an animal, not a "social person"), than I am say making conversation with a supermarket cashier, for example. Part of me just will not let go of being uptight, caring what everyone thinks, and self-conscious micromanaging.

Nothing I've tried has changed it, which includes various techniques like meditation,EFT journalling and plenty of pushing myself to take action.

Some types of therapy do look promising. But I'm not ready to sit around in the same place seeing a therapist every week for a year or more just yet.

I am signing up for a week-long intensive course that I hope will move me forward - it's called "The Hoffman Process" and claims to be equivalent to a year's good psychotherapy or more. Expensive but looks legit, with supporting studies, no upsell and alot of media coverage (here in UK at least). If it helps me out, I'll let you know.

http://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/
http://www.hoffmaninstitute.co.uk/

[Hotwheels]

I too have social anxiety and it most definitely is different than approach anxiety. I've actually tensed up to the point of my breathing changing and the hairs on my arms standing up just from the prospect of entering a busy bar where I actually know, at least in passing, probably 50% of the people inside.

The only thing that has worked for me is to clear my head and tell myself I have done this hundreds of times and everything will be fine. It's weird and I can't really explain it, but I will almost flip a mental switch and then things are fine for the most part now. The thing is I still have to consciously do this, probably because of my work where I am generally by myself for the most part out in the field. (When I say out in the field in this instance it's not "game", but actually traveling for work and being out on site.)

Social anxiety definitely sucks and overcoming it isn't easy. However, with enough consistent reps I think it can be if one get's his head in the right spot by telling oneself it is a response without cause.

[Pilgrim37]

Maybe try going on this Dale Carnegie course.
You can find them in most cities in the US I think.
Once you master public speaking I don't think much will phase you socially,whether it's meeting new people or starting a conversation with a goodlooking chick.

Warren Buffett paid $200 for one when he was young and he said it was worth more than a Degree.

His book "The Power of Positive Thinking" is pretty famous

[esperar]

I have SA. One day I asked myself which was the better deal for me, to either avoid the anxiety, or to face it and get sex. I chose to face it and get sex. I am still crap with women and have anxiety, but it lessens all of the time.

[_DC_]

(01-21-2012 09:48 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I see your point, but my point, is that you're not overcoming and conquering your issues, when you rely on a "magic pill" to "change your personality" or deal with your issues. To me, this is an easy cop out, and personally I am against prescription drugs unless they are absolutely necessary (people with schizophrenia, extreme bi-polar, etc.)

I think waaay too many people just pop a xanex, prozac, adderol, or whatever, because they are not willing to put in the work, and the discomfort that is necessary to overcome their issue(s). Therefore, the issue always remains and persists under the surface, it's there and never really goes away, it just gets masked and "swept under the rug" when you use your "magic pill". What are you going to do without your "magic pill" what is your life reduced to, are you going to depend on it your whole life?

Now I am by no means perfect, as no one is, but I have come a long way with dealing with my social anxiety, compared to how I was in the past, I am tempted to say that I have overcome it 100%, which is not true, but I have been able to get a handle on it and how it effects my life. I used to be afraid of introducing myself to new people, making eye contact with strangers, and even something as trivial as making small talk with the cute girl working the check out aisle in the grocery store. Now none of these things are an issue in my life. I still get a bit nervous and have anxiety when I see a hot woman I am really attracted to, but I push myself to go talk to her, because that's what you got to do in life, if you want to achieve your goals and obtain what you desire.

If I were you, I'd seek out some psycho-therapy, but I have a few suggestions: first do NOT go to a psychiatrist (they are just drug pushers), next ask around do some online research (yelp) and try to find out who is a good psychologist, next commit yourself to at least three sessions with the psychotherapist.

Iknowexactly has some good advice, re-read his post and put his advice into action. Be real with yourself and set clear goals for overcoming your anxiety, you will never reach your potential if you don't. Finally, I don't think you fully understand the concept of inner-game, having a good job and handsome looks have nothing to do with inner game, inner game is all about what you believe and how you feel about yourself. You can make a million dollars a year and look like Brad Pitt, but if you are too afraid to approach a woman, fear rejection, or care what people think about you, than you do NOT have solid inner game.

Hope this helps...

I appreciate the distinction between having no reason to lack confidence (good job, good looks, interesting etc.) and having inner game. I used the word too loosely.

I suppose I don't understand how the above doesn't naturally translate to inner game. I have lots of confidence in my self, but low confidence in my approaching of women. I guess that's the distinction.

I tried 1mg of Xanax a few nights ago and it didn't do anything noticeable. Hmm.

[OGNorCal707]

(01-25-2012 07:30 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

(01-21-2012 09:48 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I see your point, but my point, is that you're not overcoming and conquering your issues, when you rely on a "magic pill" to "change your personality" or deal with your issues. To me, this is an easy cop out, and personally I am against prescription drugs unless they are absolutely necessary (people with schizophrenia, extreme bi-polar, etc.)

I think waaay too many people just pop a xanex, prozac, adderol, or whatever, because they are not willing to put in the work, and the discomfort that is necessary to overcome their issue(s). Therefore, the issue always remains and persists under the surface, it's there and never really goes away, it just gets masked and "swept under the rug" when you use your "magic pill". What are you going to do without your "magic pill" what is your life reduced to, are you going to depend on it your whole life?

Now I am by no means perfect, as no one is, but I have come a long way with dealing with my social anxiety, compared to how I was in the past, I am tempted to say that I have overcome it 100%, which is not true, but I have been able to get a handle on it and how it effects my life. I used to be afraid of introducing myself to new people, making eye contact with strangers, and even something as trivial as making small talk with the cute girl working the check out aisle in the grocery store. Now none of these things are an issue in my life. I still get a bit nervous and have anxiety when I see a hot woman I am really attracted to, but I push myself to go talk to her, because that's what you got to do in life, if you want to achieve your goals and obtain what you desire.

If I were you, I'd seek out some psycho-therapy, but I have a few suggestions: first do NOT go to a psychiatrist (they are just drug pushers), next ask around do some online research (yelp) and try to find out who is a good psychologist, next commit yourself to at least three sessions with the psychotherapist.

Iknowexactly has some good advice, re-read his post and put his advice into action. Be real with yourself and set clear goals for overcoming your anxiety, you will never reach your potential if you don't. Finally, I don't think you fully understand the concept of inner-game, having a good job and handsome looks have nothing to do with inner game, inner game is all about what you believe and how you feel about yourself. You can make a million dollars a year and look like Brad Pitt, but if you are too afraid to approach a woman, fear rejection, or care what people think about you, than you do NOT have solid inner game.

Hope this helps...

I appreciate the distinction between having no reason to lack confidence (good job, good looks, interesting etc.) and having inner game. I used the word too loosely.

I suppose I don't understand how the above doesn't naturally translate to inner game. I have lots of confidence in my self, but low confidence in my approaching of women. I guess that's the distinction.

I tried 1mg of Xanax a few nights ago and it didn't do anything noticeable. Hmm.

Yeah confidence can come in many forums, as this is a "game" forum, what we discuss is related to meeting and fucking women.

I'll use myself as an example, I was at a point extremely confident in my intelligence and my business skills/savvy, but at the same time I was completely unconfident in my ability to attract women.

That is why I truly believe and understand when guys say that there is no "magic bullet" when it comes to getting this part of your life handled. There are a few guys that don't need game to get women, they fit the mold every woman in looking for tall, buff, handsome, well dressed.

However for most of us, you got to have multiple things covered, your appearance, lifestyle, bank roll, social skills, confidence, game, etc. You can be above average looking, but broke and unconfident, or you can be a rich lawyer, but fat and overweight, or maybe your overweight, and have great people skills, though it's still not enough to get laid.

[T-Mac]

I think the first step is to take an inventory of yourself. Where do you excel talking to people? Where are you weak? What have you done so far to work on weaknesses and improve strengths. Since they will not solve themselves, serious dedication needs to be made. You need a burning desire to make change in this area. You need to want it and then do everything in your power to get it.

You all know where you currently stand. The only diretion to go is up. For some it is rapid and for others a painful snail pace. But would you rather go through your life not giving it all you got? No players on this forum would ever say that.

The number one thing needed is a plan. I will recommend a few here and tell me what you think.

#1 Talk to everybody. I don't care if it is the mailman, a homeless guy, old lady, person in convenience store, etc. I am talking about EVERYBODY. WHy? Your body will begin over time to get used to this. There will be different results obviously for everyone but your mind will begin to accept that this is who you are. This is where the confidence thing will come in to play. You are creating the ability to converse. You are becoming the guy that just talks to anybody and everybody whenever you want. You do this for X amount of time and keep taking a personal inventory of yourself. it doesn't matter if in the span of two months you feel you barely made any progress at all. Progress is progress and you need to keep your head up. Nobody ever said it was going to be easy. Don't give a damn about how easy it is for others to rap with people. You aren't them. Don't let that bs get to you.

WTF do I say? When in doubt bounce to the Ws (Where, when, why, what, etc.) and toss in "how" for good measrue. There was an example above about a girl approaching a guy and he couldn't keep the conversation alive. You could have used preprogrammed one word questions to keep the conversation alive as long as you want. Why did you like the song? What song is your favorite to sing? How many times have you been to this place? When are you leaving? Where you going? You will begin to realize that each answer will actually create multiple chances to ask many more questions. With practice you will have these questions lined up in your head ready to fire away. This is not designed to create attraction. However, if a girl is pre attracted to you the amount of work is minimal. I rarely have a girl check me out and NEVER have one open me. I can relate with those that have to do it the hard way.

#2 Take improv...why? It will make you incredibly uncomfortable if you are not a natural at it. You can take the same basic level multiple times. All this anxiety exists for a reason. You have a restricted comfort zone which needs expanding. The people in these classes come from all walks of life, they are very supportive and it gives you tons of chances to work on conversation skills before, during and after class. You could fill this in with any other class that you feel relevent but this one may be the biggest bang for the buck.

#3 This will have amazing results for guys in the very beginning stages of daygame. I hope you live in or close to a big city. Walk out the door with a goal to walk up to 10 girls of any looks on the street. You are not trying to score, get digits, etc. Your sole mission is to stop them and say "hi". You are going to feel very awkward doing this and a tool afterward but you HAVE to start somewhere. So instead of a random "hi" out of nowhere you say excuse me. The girl will stop almost 99.9% of the time. Say something like this "This is going to sound stupid but i am taking a course and need to stop random people on the street and say "hi". So that is it. I just wanted to say "hi". have a good day". You give them a nice smile and keep it moving. If you have never done this before it will take some balls the first time. You will then feel the next nine are easier. The next time you go to do the same thing the first will be equally difficult. Trust me this is very likely to happen. So use as many rounds as needed (even if it is 150) until you are comfortable. You then can start to advance yourself at your own pace. The important thing is to recognize your starting level of day game. If it is already way past this great but for many they have never done it before. I see guys all the time that think the starting point for daygame is chatting up an 8 at a starbucks. if you don't have an arsenal of skills this is going to be a crash and burn over and over again. it is like any sport. You need to work hard on the underlying fundamentals and then work toward greatness. practice...practice...practice...

The above can be done with your own personal touch. But making it sound like it is for a class with a bit of an annoyed look on your face will make you feel like less of a tool. The great thing about this? You are talking to random girls and you will find almost all of them to be really cool about it. You are also doing TONS to build your confidence. You could also stop people and ask the location of something, etc. But i like the "hi" thing. You will be surprised that many times it will not end at hi. They will be interested in wtf this is all about and you get extra time chating.

Anxiety is a bitch and all guys were born with it to a certain extent as it relates to conversing with girls. The overall social anxiety can be slowly worked on without pills, booze, etc. Don't use booze as a crutch. You need to create the natural ability to talk to people without all the toxins in the system.

I live in the NYC area and have helped out many guys with anxiety issues (no I didn't charge them). I LOVE helping out guys with this issue because I can walk them around and they can observe me. I have taken great joy out of helping others get past this sticking point and watch them improve their lives. You will never be good at daygame if you aren't good at talking to people. You first need to get a solid handle on how to communicate and then move along to flirting in conversations. This is really an inner game issue. You are cock blocking yourself. It is great if you have all the other areas of your life in check but if not that needs to be addressed along with all of the above. In other words, you need to truly believe when chatting up a hottie that you have so much to offer she is the lucky one. This comes with time...how much all depends on the person.

If this helps anybody even slightly it was worth typing.

[Parlay44]

You may have some form of a hormone imbalance. I found this article pretty interesting.

http://www.anxietyfreechildren.com/artic...gdala.html

[mofo]

See a proper psychologist. Don't take drugs.
Do you have a purpose in life? Are you following that purpose?
Read The Alchemist.
Why does this social anxiety bother you?

[_DC_]

(01-26-2012 12:41 AM)mofo Wrote:  

See a proper psychologist. Don't take drugs.
Do you have a purpose in life? Are you following that purpose?
Read The Alchemist.
Why does this social anxiety bother you?

I have an absolutely fantastic job and my life situation is very good. Have good friends and family. This has very little to do with social anxiety IMO.

Only anxiety comes from complete strangers.

Reading the Alchemist now actually.