[thegmanifesto]

Anyone store gold or precious metals in other countries?

I am seriously thinking about this.

If so, can someone break it down?

Who do you recommend?

Which countries? Hong Kong? Singapore? Panama?

I have really been thinking about Canada.

[scorpio]

G, I got you on this one.

You can either own the gold directly or you can buy a paper claim convertible into the gold itself. There are some hybrid programs where you supposedly own a direct fractional amount of a large gold bar, for example. I say supposedly because the only way you know is through their ledgering system. If you want to trade gold, there's ETFs out there for it like GLD, but that's a separate matter altogether.

The latter has lower transaction and maintenance/storage costs, but the most paranoid of people tend to own the stuff directly. If you want to own the stuff directly, then you're looking at annual storage fees in addition to transaction costs when you buy/sell.

For example, if you own a 1 kilo bar of gold, it's gonna be expensive to store it every year. And it will be expensive to buy and sell each time. And if you wanted to purchase it in smaller increments due to the fluctuating price of gold, you're shit out of luck. On the upside, the bar belongs to you. Thing with gold is that it forces you to buy an asset, store it and pay for it, and watch as the price either goes up or down over the long-term. Like any other asset, it has experienced both LT price increases and declines.

If you're personally comfortable with a paper claim on gold, go here:
http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment_certificate.aspx

If you're interested in the more direct fractional model, this is a cool place to check out:
http://www.goldmoney.com/

If you want to own the stuff directly and abroad, there's tons of options. Non-US banks are full service - they often trade and store the gold for you. Question is which country. Truth is this though. If you're going offline to prevent Uncle Sam from getting his filthy paws on your gold, it's gonna be a losing battle. All these countries would fold like a cheap suit if Uncle Sam wanted to get at your gold. The country that would put up the biggest fight is probably Switzerland, but the transaction/storage fees there are high.

** For the record, I own a few gold coins that I store personally. This information is entirely the result of the exhaustive research my brother and I did on this.

[wolf]

Would like to get more info.

I would like to also buy gold where it doesn't show up anywhere. My friends have been doing the coin method so far.

[thegmanifesto]

scorpio -

Thanks for the data.

Yeah, I am talking physical storage. No more paper metals for me.

Ever heard of these guys: http://www.preciousmetalstorage.net/

They store in a Brinks facility in Montreal. Sounds smooth.

Plus, Montreal isn't a bad place to hide out if you need to.

[Smitty]

G, I've given this considerable thought in the past. My conclusion was if the shit hits the fan bad enough that I need to leave the country (either on the lam or because social conditions) then I want my foreign stash in a discreet location. For me, that's a safe deposit box. I would avoid any storage locations used specifically (and on the record) for precious metals. With a safe deposit box, there's no record of your contents. No one knows if you have 12 ounces of gold, $25k in bills, or whatever.

My strategy:
Open a foreign bank account, deposit the equivalent of $1000 and leave it there. Then you can use the bank for your safe deposit box. $1,000 is enough that you can let them pull the annual fee (for the box) from the account and you'll have a good ten years before you need to make another deposit. Get the smallest box and you'll have plenty of room for 1oz coins ($1600 each as of today). If you need more than the smallest box, then you're holding too much gold in one location. No need to own larger than 1oz coins and never trust one bank with a large stash. Now, the important part is (as a U.S. citizen) you are not required to report a foreign bank account unless your balance (combined from all bank accounts) equals or exceeds $10k. Open a few of these accounts in locations that best suit your future goals (or escape strategy) and just keep the total account balance under $10k.

The basis of the strategy is to keep your assets undeclared and be discreet about what you store.

[November]

(01-07-2012 07:24 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

I want my foreign stash in a discreet location. For me, that's a safe deposit box.

Totally agree with this.

I have plans to move my bank accounts overseas soon and am looking at banks in Hong Kong and Singapore. Both seem like very solid locations in countries that have steady economies at the moment. Obviously better than US, Europe or Canada right now.

If anyone wants to discuss offshore banking, buying and holding precious metals, PM me. Would love to exchange info on the subject.

[vinman]

Call me paranoid, but after MF Global and all the other underhanded nonsense in the financial world, you can't trust anyone. All of my gold and silver is in my safe. If you can't guard it with a gun, you don't own it. Safe deposit boxes are a bad idea as well because of a bank "holiday". This can happen with any significant national or world event. They lock the doors, and you can't get jack. The beauty of gold is that it's portable. If you have friends in other parts of the world that you can absolutely TRUST let them store some of it for you.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-07-2012 08:57 PM)vinman Wrote:  

Call me paranoid, but after MF Global and all the other underhanded nonsense in the financial world, you can't trust anyone. All of my gold and silver is in my safe. If you can't guard it with a gun, you don't own it. Safe deposit boxes are a bad idea as well because of a bank "holiday". This can happen with any significant national or world event. They lock the doors, and you can't get jack. The beauty of gold is that it's portable. If you have friends in other parts of the world that you can absolutely TRUST let them store some of it for you.

Yeah, that is why I was kind of interested in the Brinks Facility in Montreal on that link above.

Anyone have thoughts on that?

[rudebwoy]

http://assetprotection.escapeartist.com/...-assets-2#

[Hooligan Harry]

(01-07-2012 04:10 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Anyone store gold or precious metals in other countries?

I am seriously thinking about this.

If so, can someone break it down?

Who do you recommend?

Which countries? Hong Kong? Singapore? Panama?

I have really been thinking about Canada.

Consider the Perth Mint, which also offers buying and depository options. An alternative option is Austria and its easy to organise through brokers in the US so you wont even need to go there. Switzerland for physical storage is always an option.

Panama is best avoided at the moment, been a few odd changes to legislation of late, so research a bit more before its considered.

[_DC_]

Call me a newb, but what is the purpose of storing physical precious metal overseas?

Tax reasons?

[Hooligan Harry]

Only other reason would be for security. Growing concerns that governments will be moving on personal gold stores if fiat currencies implode.

But predominantly for tax. Through trust funds and even companies you establish both in country and abroad, purchasing assets or re-investing income is classified as capital acquisition, which is tax deductible. You filter your income through various trusts to reduce exposure to taxation and in some cases double taxation.

A reason to do it abroad is to reduce sovereign risk firstly, but its also a way to reduce exposure to local tax offices and future ex wives

[durangotang]

G, my coworker has silver stored at a bank in Scotland (I'll try to find out which one). Doug Casey recommends Switzerland. I am too busy to Google it right now but I am pretty sure Gerald Celente or Peter Schiff had specific recommendations along these lines as well.

Also, if you wanted storage in Canada you may want to look into Eric Sprott's phsyical gold ETF (fully backed ETF with physical gold reserves at a third party facility in Canada). Sprott also has a physical silver ETF. These ETF's trade at a premium to their counterparts, such as SPDR's GLD. I am too much of a noob here to post links (forum software wants 10 posts first), but just Google "Sprott Physical Gold" or "Sprott Physical Silver," and you can take a look.

If I were you I wouldn't stay in one political or financial jurisdiction. I would have some in Switzerland, perhaps some in Singapore, and one of the following countries (USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Great Britian, or any crown/dependent territories).

[thegmanifesto]

(01-09-2012 07:23 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

G, my coworker has silver stored at a bank in Scotland (I'll try to find out which one). Doug Casey recommends Switzerland. I am too busy to Google it right now but I am pretty sure Gerald Celente or Peter Schiff had specific recommendations along these lines as well.

Also, if you wanted storage in Canada you may want to look into Eric Sprott's phsyical gold ETF (fully backed ETF with physical gold reserves at a third party facility in Canada). Sprott also has a physical silver ETF. These ETF's trade at a premium to their counterparts, such as SPDR's GLD. I am too much of a noob here to post links (forum software wants 10 posts first), but just Google "Sprott Physical Gold" or "Sprott Physical Silver," and you can take a look.

If I were you I wouldn't stay in one political or financial jurisdiction. I would have some in Switzerland, perhaps some in Singapore, and one of the following countries (USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Great Britian, or any crown/dependent territories).

Yeah, I have traded Sprotts Silver ETF and doubled my money on the run up last year. (Pure luck).

I am over paper metals for now.

[T and A Man]

When gold was money, Switzerland made their name by being the vault. Austria has tried to get in on the game since 1946.

But the original is still the best.

Switzerland sells its brand, it has for over 700 years. That's worth something.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-11-2012 02:17 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  

When gold was money, Switzerland made their name by being the vault. Austria has tried to get in on the game since 1946.

But the original is still the best.

Switzerland sells its brand, it has for over 700 years. That's worth something.

Who do you recommend?

[kosko]

Hey G. Canada is just a pawn of the USA all agencies send back info on each others citizens all the time. Sourcing and seizing Americans gold abroad would be very easy for USA officials to accomplish here in Canada ("security partnership" agreements).

I would look into Central America or the Caribbean.

One route you can take is deal with a Canadian Bank outside of North America. Bank of Nova Scotia does a ton of business in the Caribbean, this option could offer a barrier between the slimy information exchanges of USA and CAN.

The UAE might be a viable spot also to look into for stable protection of your nuggs.

[Australia Sucks]

Its been a while since the last post on this thread. Anyone care to update and tell us which countries if any they use for offshore gold storage and why?