Brazil overtakes UK economy!!
Quote: (12-26-2011 07:54 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-time.html
Pretty big news I would say?
Definitely big news. I was going to create a thread about this but you beat me to it. Here's a short video clip talking about it:
Between this, the 2016 Summer Olympics, the 2014 World Cup and the large oil discoveries off the coast, I suspect that the days of cheap/affordable Rio are going to look increasingly further gone in coming years.
Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time.
Rio hasn't been cheap for a while now, especially housing.
I'm not surprised at all as I have been saying it for years now. If/when Brasil gets their acts together, that is less corruption and more opportunities for the lower classes, it can easily get past France as # 5 and even overcome Germany at # 4. With the over-aging of the J population and the free falling of the US economy, I wouldn't be surprised to see China as # 1 in 10 years time and Brasil # 2.
Anyone who hasn't been to Brasil, I urge them to go now before the WC 2014 as by then, it'll be even more expensive than the US and at the same level as Western Europe in may ways. I'm very happy for Brasil and my Brasilian friends, they truly deserve it and it's about time that a country with such vast resources are finally getting to where they belong!
Anyone who hasn't been to Brasil, I urge them to go now before the WC 2014 as by then, it'll be even more expensive than the US and at the same level as Western Europe in may ways. I'm very happy for Brasil and my Brasilian friends, they truly deserve it and it's about time that a country with such vast resources are finally getting to where they belong!
Quote: (12-27-2011 12:16 AM)P Dog Wrote:
Rio hasn't been cheap for a while now, especially housing.
I know, I'm just saying it is about to get a lot worse. Prices have been increasing steadily there over the past decade or so, but that was without the World Cup, the Olympics and massive oil discoveries.
The price increases in Rio have been significant, but we've seen nothing yet. All bets are off once that oil money starts flowing. Rio is currently outside of the global top 10 in terms of its expatriate cost of living, behind the likes of Sao Paulo and Singapore. I'd bet on it cracking the top 5 by the end of this decade.
Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time.
GDP of the country is one thing
GDP per capita is a better guage of standerd of living among the general population.
Brazil's is $10,710 .
It'll be decades if ever that their GDP per capita and general standard of living reaches European standards,except for the 10-30 million at the top.
Add on Corruption,terrible infrastructure ,dependence on commodities,40,000 Homicides a year and it's not a place I'd want to live full time.
But if you're on the inside,speak the language,make the contacts there are plenty of opportunities to get rich.
GDP per capita is a better guage of standerd of living among the general population.
Brazil's is $10,710 .
It'll be decades if ever that their GDP per capita and general standard of living reaches European standards,except for the 10-30 million at the top.
Add on Corruption,terrible infrastructure ,dependence on commodities,40,000 Homicides a year and it's not a place I'd want to live full time.
But if you're on the inside,speak the language,make the contacts there are plenty of opportunities to get rich.
Lots of financial trading companies are trying to trade via sao paulo over the past 2-3 years. Only problem is their lazy as fuck. Takes 6 months to 1 year to get lines, equipment up and running etc where it takes 30 days to setup here in the US. Once the mentality changes to more of a NY / Japan work style this country's economy will really take off.
Yes,Brazil has becoming more and more powerful as a global player each year, but like our economy state secretary said here it will take 10-20 years to reach European living standards for the majority of the population.
other problem is that bureaucracy and corruption still at crazy levels here and I don't see any serious commitment on the govt or among the people to change it.
other problem is that bureaucracy and corruption still at crazy levels here and I don't see any serious commitment on the govt or among the people to change it.
Chicks need to be on rotation like a Netflix queue
Is it just me or do Lula and Paul Krugman look the same:
![[Image: lula-da-silva1.jpg]](http://machimon.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/lula-da-silva1.jpg)
![[Image: Krugman_New-articleInline.jpg]](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/16/opinion/Krugman_New/Krugman_New-articleInline.jpg)
Quote: (12-27-2011 09:45 PM)chyamor Wrote:
Lots of financial trading companies are trying to trade via sao paulo over the past 2-3 years. Only problem is their lazy as fuck. Takes 6 months to 1 year to get lines, equipment up and running etc where it takes 30 days to setup here in the US. Once the mentality changes to more of a NY / Japan work style this country's economy will really take off.
Can you elaborate on this please? Are you talking about physical infrastructure like data centres and fibre links or you talking about Brazilian administration?
So much for the booming Brazilian economy taking over the world. I cannot ever imagine a Latin American country competing with Japan, U.S.A., Germany or China on the world stage. Corruption, laziness and short-shortsightedness is stubbornly endemic in the cultures of Latin American countries.
For a country to become first world the right legal framework, respect for property rights, and work ethic must be there.
For example after Greece joined the Euro currency/block they binged themselves on debt and bankrupted themselves. Because in Greece everybody wanted free government handouts and big social spending but they all wanted to dodge paying taxes. That is like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Contrast that to Norwegians who all want lot's of social spending and welfare but they are actually prepared to pay the taxes. Or you can compare Greece to some low tax countries where taxes are low/modest but so is government spending. Estonia is a good example of this.
The average person in Latin American countries is very short-sighted and lives day by day without any vision or ambition for the future, and lacks work ethic, which is not the mentality needed for a country to become wealthy. Contrast that to the attitude of the Japanese. Japan was once a poor country but become a wealthy country in large part due to the industriousness and work ethic of the Japanese. Same story for South Korea. Of course the system and type of government also makes a huge difference as we can see when we compare South Korea to North Korea.
China on a GDP per capita basis is still on the poorer side but looking at the work ethic and business savvy of Chinese people I could eventually (in a few more decades) see them as becoming a high income/high GDP per capita country.
For a country to become first world the right legal framework, respect for property rights, and work ethic must be there.
For example after Greece joined the Euro currency/block they binged themselves on debt and bankrupted themselves. Because in Greece everybody wanted free government handouts and big social spending but they all wanted to dodge paying taxes. That is like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Contrast that to Norwegians who all want lot's of social spending and welfare but they are actually prepared to pay the taxes. Or you can compare Greece to some low tax countries where taxes are low/modest but so is government spending. Estonia is a good example of this.
The average person in Latin American countries is very short-sighted and lives day by day without any vision or ambition for the future, and lacks work ethic, which is not the mentality needed for a country to become wealthy. Contrast that to the attitude of the Japanese. Japan was once a poor country but become a wealthy country in large part due to the industriousness and work ethic of the Japanese. Same story for South Korea. Of course the system and type of government also makes a huge difference as we can see when we compare South Korea to North Korea.
China on a GDP per capita basis is still on the poorer side but looking at the work ethic and business savvy of Chinese people I could eventually (in a few more decades) see them as becoming a high income/high GDP per capita country.
Having been in Brazil now I can see the potential. However theyre still dealing with the same long term challenges of the topography/infrastructure, corruption, etc. There's no end in sight.
People are already paying huge taxes and feel like they're not getting enough back. SP has a tax clock counting yearly taxes taken by the government. I made a video walking from it to the B3 stock exchange.
They obviously don't want to pay more taxes when the ex president just got convicted of defrauding the country of megasums. Nor should they. Unfortunately he was the top of the iceberg. Pretty much the entire government and big business is corrupt.
Thank the colonial past. Somehow certain Asian countries like China or Japan manage to shrug of the colonial past and industrialize. Japan was never really colonized and China didn't really get to implement their 5 year plans until after 1949.
S Korea is probably the best example of one generation busting ass and the government concentrating on 6-7 key industries. I made a nice video about this when I was living in Seoul.
Japan and Korea are homogenous societies. Japan made a big push in the Meiji to westernize and did it all to well to the point of seizing territory. China has one party that drove an iron fisted agenda of development.
You could argue that Cold War politics and USA playing puppet master Fucked with a lot of SEA countries economic development and the same for Central and South America. However again S Korea bucks that argument. Our intervention was key in allowing their economy to flourish (Korea War was also a huge boon to Japan as our staging area).
We also restricted the Japanese military industrial complex so they focused on consumer goods and sold them to us. Chinese businessmen flocked to Hong Kong after 1949 to build factories.
Little of this happened in Latin America. The closest thing I can think of is maquiladoras along the Mexican border after NAFTA.
I'm still learning about South America. Brazil did have a coffee boom and a huge influx of immigration. The Japanese made huge agricultural contributions to Brazil. But even an injection of 1.5 million of them wasn't enough apparently. They even got around same number of Germans. Two of the best ethnic groups for running orderly businesses.
When we took over the canal from the inept french Roosevelt created panama to fuck over Costa Rica. But that's a tiny country. Brazil is huge.
The global north generally doesn't share with the poor global south. Asia has had its own superpowers for decades now. South America and Africa not so much. Oddly China is starting to invest in both places. Maybe they will fill the gap?
People are already paying huge taxes and feel like they're not getting enough back. SP has a tax clock counting yearly taxes taken by the government. I made a video walking from it to the B3 stock exchange.
They obviously don't want to pay more taxes when the ex president just got convicted of defrauding the country of megasums. Nor should they. Unfortunately he was the top of the iceberg. Pretty much the entire government and big business is corrupt.
Thank the colonial past. Somehow certain Asian countries like China or Japan manage to shrug of the colonial past and industrialize. Japan was never really colonized and China didn't really get to implement their 5 year plans until after 1949.
S Korea is probably the best example of one generation busting ass and the government concentrating on 6-7 key industries. I made a nice video about this when I was living in Seoul.
Japan and Korea are homogenous societies. Japan made a big push in the Meiji to westernize and did it all to well to the point of seizing territory. China has one party that drove an iron fisted agenda of development.
You could argue that Cold War politics and USA playing puppet master Fucked with a lot of SEA countries economic development and the same for Central and South America. However again S Korea bucks that argument. Our intervention was key in allowing their economy to flourish (Korea War was also a huge boon to Japan as our staging area).
We also restricted the Japanese military industrial complex so they focused on consumer goods and sold them to us. Chinese businessmen flocked to Hong Kong after 1949 to build factories.
Little of this happened in Latin America. The closest thing I can think of is maquiladoras along the Mexican border after NAFTA.
I'm still learning about South America. Brazil did have a coffee boom and a huge influx of immigration. The Japanese made huge agricultural contributions to Brazil. But even an injection of 1.5 million of them wasn't enough apparently. They even got around same number of Germans. Two of the best ethnic groups for running orderly businesses.
When we took over the canal from the inept french Roosevelt created panama to fuck over Costa Rica. But that's a tiny country. Brazil is huge.
The global north generally doesn't share with the poor global south. Asia has had its own superpowers for decades now. South America and Africa not so much. Oddly China is starting to invest in both places. Maybe they will fill the gap?
^We're supposed to blame colonialism for Brazil's corruption issues?
How long until they get to take responsibility for their own messes?
100 years?
1000?
How long until they get to take responsibility for their own messes?
100 years?
1000?
The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
Quote: (08-03-2017 06:04 AM)Travel Museums Wrote:
Having been in Brazil now I can see the potential. However theyre still dealing with the same long term challenges of the topography/infrastructure, corruption, etc. There's no end in sight.
People are already paying huge taxes and feel like they're not getting enough back. SP has a tax clock counting yearly taxes taken by the government. I made a video walking from it to the B3 stock exchange.
They obviously don't want to pay more taxes when the ex president just got convicted of defrauding the country of megasums. Nor should they. Unfortunately he was the top of the iceberg. Pretty much the entire government and big business is corrupt.
Thank the colonial past. Somehow certain Asian countries like China or Japan manage to shrug of the colonial past and industrialize. Japan was never really colonized and China didn't really get to implement their 5 year plans until after 1949.
S Korea is probably the best example of one generation busting ass and the government concentrating on 6-7 key industries. I made a nice video about this when I was living in Seoul.
Japan and Korea are homogenous societies. Japan made a big push in the Meiji to westernize and did it all to well to the point of seizing territory. China has one party that drove an iron fisted agenda of development.
You could argue that Cold War politics and USA playing puppet master Fucked with a lot of SEA countries economic development and the same for Central and South America. However again S Korea bucks that argument. Our intervention was key in allowing their economy to flourish (Korea War was also a huge boon to Japan as our staging area).
We also restricted the Japanese military industrial complex so they focused on consumer goods and sold them to us. Chinese businessmen flocked to Hong Kong after 1949 to build factories.
Little of this happened in Latin America. The closest thing I can think of is maquiladoras along the Mexican border after NAFTA.
I'm still learning about South America. Brazil did have a coffee boom and a huge influx of immigration. The Japanese made huge agricultural contributions to Brazil. But even an injection of 1.5 million of them wasn't enough apparently. They even got around same number of Germans. Two of the best ethnic groups for running orderly businesses.
When we took over the canal from the inept french Roosevelt created panama to fuck over Costa Rica. But that's a tiny country. Brazil is huge.
The global north generally doesn't share with the poor global south. Asia has had its own superpowers for decades now. South America and Africa not so much. Oddly China is starting to invest in both places. Maybe they will fill the gap?
I don't know why people write stuff when they obviously don't know what they are talking about.
The west has invested heavily in Asia, since they helped build Japan after world war II. So those Asians countries are in a position of "power" due to help from the west.
Do you really think tiny North Korea developed Nuclear bombs without help from the West?
South America and Africa have been raped of their resources for centuries. Maybe you should read about resources like coltan, that come from Africa and make your smartphone work.
The list goes on.
The Anglo-American empire has ruled for centuries, look at the history of oil and what they have done to many countries to obtain this "resource".
Just for the record, I am not complaining. At the end of the day we are ALL getting screwed and are slaves to the system.
Total GDP doesnt mean as much as the media would have you believe. Judging countries by GDP is like judging a company by yearly revenue without considering profits, assets or debts. A useful indicator, but a poor proxy for the value a company.
For an interesting and arguably better metric, consider "Net Wealth" - the total value of assets minus liabilities owned by that country's citizens:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth
Brazil's net wealth is 2.5 trillion USD, UK is 14 trillion USD.
For an interesting and arguably better metric, consider "Net Wealth" - the total value of assets minus liabilities owned by that country's citizens:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth
Brazil's net wealth is 2.5 trillion USD, UK is 14 trillion USD.
Where does the wealth from the UK come from?
It's part of the socio-economic history. Brazil was also one of the last SA countries to declare independence.
You end up with a distrust for private enterprise but nationalizing industries is just as corrupt wth poorer management. Throw in a military dictatorship.
Everyone wants to live in a city or move there. Services and development grow haphazardly. Most people who can leave will.
The west has invested in places like Hong Kong. Not sure what your talking about with western help for NORTH Korea. Are you mixed up? We did a bunch of sneaky shit to slow down their nuclear R&D like stuxnet fucking their centrifuges up.
The west did rape SA and Africa for everything from gold to rare earth metals for cellphones. China has a lot of the world's reserve for rare earth metals now.
BTW do you know what they're tearing up the African forest habitat of gorillas to make? Charcoal? Why? That's how they cook. It's a billion dollar industry. Sad isn't it. All the wealth that's flowed out of Africa and they haven't even had the fuel revolution.
Japan continues to be the US's unsinkable battleship and probably closest ally in trying to "balance" China's new banking and trade deals with surrounding countries against our own interests.
I don't pay much attention to what's going on in Australia. You think it'd be the dominant power in the region but it's not.
I guess brazil is the dominant economic power in SA. The reason I chose to start in São Paulo is it's the economic capital of Latin America. Doesn't really feel like it when you're here at least as a tourist making the rounds.
Under colonialism most of the wealth leaves a country along with it's easy to plunder natural resources. The market shifts, mines play out, the land won't support anymore coffee, etc.
Under republicanism most of the wealth gets concentrated in the hands of a few. The middle class grows faster than the economy can support it. Families in Brazil are much bigger than Japan (2) or china (often 1 kid).
You end up with a distrust for private enterprise but nationalizing industries is just as corrupt wth poorer management. Throw in a military dictatorship.
Everyone wants to live in a city or move there. Services and development grow haphazardly. Most people who can leave will.
The west has invested in places like Hong Kong. Not sure what your talking about with western help for NORTH Korea. Are you mixed up? We did a bunch of sneaky shit to slow down their nuclear R&D like stuxnet fucking their centrifuges up.
The west did rape SA and Africa for everything from gold to rare earth metals for cellphones. China has a lot of the world's reserve for rare earth metals now.
BTW do you know what they're tearing up the African forest habitat of gorillas to make? Charcoal? Why? That's how they cook. It's a billion dollar industry. Sad isn't it. All the wealth that's flowed out of Africa and they haven't even had the fuel revolution.
Japan continues to be the US's unsinkable battleship and probably closest ally in trying to "balance" China's new banking and trade deals with surrounding countries against our own interests.
I don't pay much attention to what's going on in Australia. You think it'd be the dominant power in the region but it's not.
I guess brazil is the dominant economic power in SA. The reason I chose to start in São Paulo is it's the economic capital of Latin America. Doesn't really feel like it when you're here at least as a tourist making the rounds.
Under colonialism most of the wealth leaves a country along with it's easy to plunder natural resources. The market shifts, mines play out, the land won't support anymore coffee, etc.
Under republicanism most of the wealth gets concentrated in the hands of a few. The middle class grows faster than the economy can support it. Families in Brazil are much bigger than Japan (2) or china (often 1 kid).
rudebwoy you right to point out the countries like Japan and south Korea got huge investment/help from the west but they also had the right culture to best maximize the opportunity. I am sure if the same opportunity was given to Brazil (or other Latin American countries) it would be squandered to a large extent and while wealth would still increase, they would be nowhere near becoming a wealthy country. Look at how much oil Venezuela has but they managed to fuck things up so badly to the extent that people are starving.
^You cannot make that assumption.
The culture in Japan made those guys buy into the state, salarymen working like dogs to keep the machine going. I haven't been to Japan but they are making it sound like the young men now are watching anime porn all day and have no time for women.
That is a big change from the Kamikaze pilots that were willing to kill themselves for honour and pride for the country.
The same Panama Canal that "WE" built was actually built from cheap labour, mostly from the Caribbean. Many of those men died in the process, like any other huge construction project that has been undertaken over the years.
When I grew up in the UK, in the 70s.
They would have like ten men working to take out your garbage and put it on a truck. The unions took advantage of this situation, which caused many industries to finally go bankrupt or move their companies overseas.
The working culture at the time, was that workers had all the rights. If they wanted to take an hour coffee break, it was their right. We all know what happens when productivity goes down and labour costs goes up.
In Canada, where I am currently. They are looking to legalize marijuana very soon, I wonder what the culture we be like in a few years.
The culture in Japan made those guys buy into the state, salarymen working like dogs to keep the machine going. I haven't been to Japan but they are making it sound like the young men now are watching anime porn all day and have no time for women.
That is a big change from the Kamikaze pilots that were willing to kill themselves for honour and pride for the country.
The same Panama Canal that "WE" built was actually built from cheap labour, mostly from the Caribbean. Many of those men died in the process, like any other huge construction project that has been undertaken over the years.
When I grew up in the UK, in the 70s.
They would have like ten men working to take out your garbage and put it on a truck. The unions took advantage of this situation, which caused many industries to finally go bankrupt or move their companies overseas.
The working culture at the time, was that workers had all the rights. If they wanted to take an hour coffee break, it was their right. We all know what happens when productivity goes down and labour costs goes up.
In Canada, where I am currently. They are looking to legalize marijuana very soon, I wonder what the culture we be like in a few years.
Venezuela has possibly the largest oil reserves in the world. Poor political leadership and never diversifying. To a certain extent this is Russia's problem too. Too dependent on the fluctuating price of a barrel.
The USA gives massive aid to other countries. Usually there are strings attached and a lot of the money is earmarked to buy things back from us like weapons.
It doesn't end up helping much because the projects are often poorly executed and hamstrung by politics. But the real problem is debt.
If we really cared about whatever country we would push to forgive the massive debts they owe to IMF, World Bank, etc. But this is how we control them.
Occasionally schmuck dictators try defaulting which usually has even worse economic consequences. Then some banks still sue in world court and end up collecting decades later!
The USA gives massive aid to other countries. Usually there are strings attached and a lot of the money is earmarked to buy things back from us like weapons.
It doesn't end up helping much because the projects are often poorly executed and hamstrung by politics. But the real problem is debt.
If we really cared about whatever country we would push to forgive the massive debts they owe to IMF, World Bank, etc. But this is how we control them.
Occasionally schmuck dictators try defaulting which usually has even worse economic consequences. Then some banks still sue in world court and end up collecting decades later!
^The USA has secretly interfered in Venezuela causing that uprising.
I guess your not familiar with the IMF or read the book Economic Hitman!
I guess your not familiar with the IMF or read the book Economic Hitman!
Japan has small household sizes, one of the most urbanized populations of any large countries, same for infrastructure. They have strong work culture and enterprise. And their economy is still not doing well. People there just don't want to have kids. It's too hard. They're finally caving into immigration.
One of the things that keeps America growing is everyone wants to come here. People will do whatever it takes. Crossing oceans and deserts. Taking the shittiest job picking fruit or illegal manual labor.
China has done most of its urbanization and infrastructure and is slowing down. They're starting to focus on the new intl Silk Road initiatives, ports, and military bases.
Brazil... well their ex president just got sent to jail. Today the judiciary decided to stop prosecuting presidents bc it would be too disruptive to the govt. They're obviously all corrupt as fuck. All that syphoned off money could have built a modern first world country or st least been invested to do so. Instead it's probably in Miami real estate and god knows where else.
Rudebwoy:
"Do you really think tiny North Korea developed Nuclear bombs without help from the West?"
Was this a typo. Do YOU know what you're talking about?
One of the things that keeps America growing is everyone wants to come here. People will do whatever it takes. Crossing oceans and deserts. Taking the shittiest job picking fruit or illegal manual labor.
China has done most of its urbanization and infrastructure and is slowing down. They're starting to focus on the new intl Silk Road initiatives, ports, and military bases.
Brazil... well their ex president just got sent to jail. Today the judiciary decided to stop prosecuting presidents bc it would be too disruptive to the govt. They're obviously all corrupt as fuck. All that syphoned off money could have built a modern first world country or st least been invested to do so. Instead it's probably in Miami real estate and god knows where else.
Rudebwoy:
"Do you really think tiny North Korea developed Nuclear bombs without help from the West?"
Was this a typo. Do YOU know what you're talking about?
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