[C-Note]

(01-27-2017 01:56 PM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

In hindsight, I see where I messed up - when trying to escalate I did not "back off" and "back in."

To another attempt.

Probably all of us here have had the experience finding that a technique to overcome LMR will work like magic with one particular girl, then completely fail with a different girl. I know that's happened to me.

There is one date in particular I had with a girl I had been working on for quite awhile. The date went great, kissed her in the elevator, then started an intense make out once we got to the room. Then, suddenly, she stopped and went cold. I tried every LMR tactic I could think of- freeze out, rubbing the crotch, two-steps-forward-one-back, building more comfort...no dice. She lives in a different city so I haven't been able to follow up on it so I still wonder what I could have done differently and it's driving me crazy.

[AneroidOcean]

(01-27-2017 03:18 PM)C-Note Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 01:56 PM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

In hindsight, I see where I messed up - when trying to escalate I did not "back off" and "back in."

To another attempt.

Probably all of us here have had the experience finding that a technique to overcome LMR will work like magic with one particular girl, then completely fail with a different girl. I know that's happened to me.

There is one date in particular I had with a girl I had been working on for quite awhile. The date went great, kissed her in the elevator, then started an intense make out once we got to the room. Then, suddenly, she stopped and went cold. I tried every LMR tactic I could think of- freeze out, rubbing the crotch, two-steps-forward-one-back, building more comfort...no dice. She lives in a different city so I haven't been able to follow up on it so I still wonder what I could have done differently and it's driving me crazy.

Both you and MaceTyrell are the same problem.

You gotta start to heat her up and then LEAVE HER WANTING MORE.

Gotta let your head upstairs run the fucking show.

Your head downstairs goes "fuck yeah I'm ready let's do this shit" while in her head she's thinking "wait, too fast, I don't want him to think I'm a slut" or a myriad of other possibilities.

If you think with your head upstairs and think "she's gotta want me" and "I am the prize" then play a little hard to get. Pull away and tell her "mmm alright let's chill out for a minute" and she'll think "wait, is he actually into me or not?" or "damn, this guy isn't thirsty...god I want to fuck him"

When she's soaked through her panties and she can't think of anything but you inside of her...THAT's when you can let your head downstairs take over.

EVEN THEN, you should always consider mind-fucking her some, because if you want to get in her panties the way in is through her mind. Even a slut has to be seduced a little and think it was her desire and her idea.

[questor70]

Here is an alrming statistic:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...x/8281069/

"the length of the average sex act is 7.3 minutes, but an "astonishing" 43% of such acts are completed within 2 minutes."

When you approach a woman, even an inexperienced one, she probably knows from talking to her friends how anti-climactic sex can be. In my experience even when you're doing it well women don't really need THAT much more time than men once they're really into it. But even if they get off, doing something that brief is going to feel anti-climactic when it's over. Post-bang remorse, as it were. So if you want a memorable experience you have to change your perception of sex from a brief interlude to an all night marathon of intimacy. Blur the lines of what constitutes sex. Stretch out all of the touching including everything that happens early on with clothing on, dry humping etc...

So it's not just about foreplay simply as a means to an end. It's broadening the definition of "sex" so wide that she can't really tell anymore where it begins or ends. I mean, if you do it well enough she may very well cum before her clothes are even off, and once you've made a girl cum her body is going to start producing bonding hormones with your name on it anyway. You exploit the difference between a woman's LMR revolving around PvE intercourse vs. the bonding effect of her going through the whole sexual response cycle with you without having to cross that threshold. A woman's resistance is only ever going to be 100% effective if she keeps you from touching her at all, and most women don't have that kind of puritanical restraint.

[redbeard]

(01-29-2017 03:22 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

Here is an alrming statistic:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...x/8281069/

"the length of the average sex act is 7.3 minutes, but an "astonishing" 43% of such acts are completed within 2 minutes."

When you approach a woman, even an inexperienced one, she probably knows from talking to her friends how anti-climactic sex can be. In my experience even when you're doing it well women don't really need THAT much more time than men once they're really into it. But even if they get off, doing something that brief is going to feel anti-climactic when it's over. Post-bang remorse, as it were. So if you want a memorable experience you have to change your perception of sex from a brief interlude to an all night marathon of intimacy. Blur the lines of what constitutes sex. Stretch out all of the touching including everything that happens early on with clothing on, dry humping etc...

So it's not just about foreplay simply as a means to an end. It's broadening the definition of "sex" so wide that she can't really tell anymore where it begins or ends. I mean, if you do it well enough she may very well cum before her clothes are even off, and once you've made a girl cum her body is going to start producing bonding hormones with your name on it anyway. You exploit the difference between a woman's LMR revolving around PvE intercourse vs. the bonding effect of her going through the whole sexual response cycle with you without having to cross that threshold. A woman's resistance is only ever going to be 100% effective if she keeps you from touching her at all, and most women don't have that kind of puritanical restraint.

This guy's got a future here.

Next time...post in a more relevant thread.

[Delta]

So quick question-

I know people always say around here to hit the same bar over and over for first dates, cozy up to the staff, etc. But typically I've been trying to mix it up, out of paranoia that some dumbass bartender is gonna be like "Hey you look familiar, were you here yesterday with some other girl?" or some equally retarded comment that blows up my spot. Is this excessively paranoid? Is any bartender out there actually that dumb?

[torridon747]

Maybe. Usually the service staff will not mention it though. Service stadd can be snide entitled cunts sometimes and do it on purpose if you don't tip them though.

Bigger issue though, why are you afraid of that. Any western girl you're taking to a first date at a bar had probably had more cocks in her than girls you've taken to that bar. I wouldn't sweat it man, just play it off into DHV if it happens anyway. "Yeah she was nice enough but we didn't click, didn't work out".

Nobody ever calls me out on that shit but sometimes I honestly wish they would.

[PapayaTapper]

Ive caught waitresses rolling their eyes after the 4th or 5th time in a week I ended up on the exact same bar stool meeting a different girl. Never had one say anything negative but I did sense they were feigning disgust while secretly intrigued. Probably couldve worked it but banging waitresses from your do to lockdown place is counter productive

[Phanes]

This method worked the second time I tried it on the first date. Took her home after 60 min.

Thank you Tuthmosis.

[casa-nostra]

(12-22-2011 03:02 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I haven't dropped any game posts in some time, so I thought I'd do a quick write-up of my personal procedure--that's been working wonders for me lately--for securing the bang on the first date. This may or may not be your schtick, but I thought I'd share it with the community.

As usual, I invite you to chop it up with me. I'd like to refine this further, if possible.

Tuthmosis's Homemade First-Date Bangs

Prep Time: 60 mins
Cooking Time: 3-4 hours
Serves 2.

Ingredients

1 free night
1 cute girl
2-4 alcoholic drinks
1 decent/smooth venue (preferably a lounge-style bar)
1 cool bachelor pad
Liberal amounts of logistical planning

Directions

Step 0. Get your logistics (pre-date planning) in order.
Any of you who know my game know that I'm always preaching the "logistics sermon." My credo is that an ounce of logistics is worth a pound of pussy. Even if your game is dog-shit, solid logistics will still get you laid here and there. Logistics is among the most under-developed parts game, in my opinion.

Once you have your system (whatever that is) down, it doesn't require a lot of effort to repeat over and over. In my case, this revolves around--apart from making sure my game-knife as sharp as possible that night--having my pad on complete lock-down:

-Apartment tidied up
-Light dimmers set on optimum setting
-Cool, smooth playlist queued up
-Condom stashes stocked up
-Dishes washed
-Plenty of ice ready for drink making
-Mixers and alcohols stocked

This, of course, pre-supposes an optimal living situation. I live by myself and have a reasonably lounging set-up (with cool, interesting decor); I think this is the ideal situation. If you live with other people, a good atmosphere is still possible, but you need to add the additional step of Roommate Lock-Down, where your housemates know what to do (and more importantly, what not to do) when you come around at night with some talent.

Another piece of logistics involves knowing your surroundings and routes home. You need to have at least one or two go-to places--ideally within walking distance, but otherwise easily accessible--near your pad. This place should, at minimum, have good lighting, good music, comfortable seating (if possible), and serve drinks (and preferably serve no food beyond light "tapas"). Even better, you should know the optimal nights at each place, so that can pick your spot according to the day of the week. If you're a real G, you have each venue's calendar page bookmarked in a folder in your Internet browser. When it's time to make a selection, you hit "load all pages" for that folder and pick accordingly.

This may sound like a lot, but the more of these things your spot has, the higher your chances of doing damage are going to be.

Step 1. Angle your date for optimal logistics.
I'm assuming you've met your girl during the day, online, or quickly at night, where you still haven't actually had significant time alone with her yet. This means, 9.5 times out of 10, that you're going to be coordinating a "first date" via text. I always try to get a girl to a place near my apartment, or within striking distance and along one of my routes to it (a stop on the subway or a reasonable walk).

I often get the psychology set up ahead of time too, adding something like this to my text, "let's start [emphasis added for the purposes of this post] at XYZ Lounge. We can always bounce somewhere else if its lame."

Of course, it goes without saying that you should have observed all of the Game 101 requirements: setting the date up at a time after standard dinner time, keeping your texts functional and minimalist, and waiting to set up the final details until the day of the date (so you have an excuse to ping the girl via text, and thereby minimize flaking).

None of you need to be reminded of this.

Step 2. Get a round of drinks at your first venue.
Don't fuck around with making her buy her own drink or some other principled bullshit. At the same time, don't fall into being her free-refills fountain for the night.

If you've picked a good, loungey bar and gotten there around, say, 9/9:30, during the week (when you should be a doing a "first date" anyway), there'll be ample seating. Grab your seat--with optimal location for your purposes--talk for a couple of minutes, and then say something like the line I've been using since my first day of "formally" practicing game: "what are you drinking? First round's on me."

I don't need to tell you what that implies about the second round.

Step 3. Build some old-school comfort, using generous amounts of "neo-kino"
Sorry to drop some ugly PUA-style jargon here, but this it's important for differentiation purposes. This is the stage where you're going to work your regular player magic, with a slight twist. You're telling stories, jokes, and whatever else is in your particular quill. For me, it's elaborate stories that stack on one another and meander all over the place. That's my neurotic style; it's probably not yours.

Meanwhile, you're doing what I'm going to have to call "neo-kino." Why neo? Because you're omitting all of the stupid palm readings, forced hugs, or other gimmicky, high-energy crap from the early 2000s. It's really the same thing, just considerably more subtle. Everything, needless to say, is smooth and unawkward. Some of what I do:

-Gradually invade her personal space as if she's succeeding in getting you interested. If you do it right, she will reciprocate.
-I touch her legs and arms with the back of the hand for emphasis on certain points
-I high-five her upon cool discoveries about her (in a calm, un-douchey, not-over-enthusiastic way); if she likes a band I like, for instance, I give her a high five
-A couple of times--emphasis on a couple of times--I hold eye contact for a little bit while talking, like I'm telepathically telling the bitch that, "I'm going to make out with [her] soon"

This shit is so nuanced that it's nearly impossible to describe in-person, never mind in an Internet post. Everyone is different, so your style of touching may be also, but just make sure to do a good amount of it.

Meanwhile, during the conversation portion, I've talked up--among other things--the bar in my apartment or some "new drink" that "I've learned to make." I'm not pushing it, I just drop the seed and move on. This doesn't have to be a drink, but it's what I use. Just insert your pad into the conversation somehow, so you can have a fake "aha! moment" about it later.

Step 4. Absolutely do not kiss her. Do not, I repeat, go for the make-out at the venue.
This is the counter-intuitive part. There will be a logical time where it seems like you should, and could, go for the escalating make-out. Ideally, this will be around the time you've finished off a slow-paced first round of drinks. If you've played your logistics correctly, you will have settled your tab (by not opening one in the first place) on the first round, so you're free to leave the venue at any point.

But don't kiss her. You should imply (physically) that you might be starting to want to, but "haven't decided yet." This means giving the subtle physical cues--like the ever-so-slightly lingering eye contact above--not some sort of overt act. She'll likely be giving you some of her own cues that she's down, but don't do it. Of course, don't avoid it pussy-like, like you're scared to do it, but like you're steadily being won you over. Keep in mind that you're being gregarious and touchy the whole time, not awkward and uncomfortable. This is very subtle physical communication, but being in that state-of-mind will help to convey this emotion.

At around the 60 to 90-minute mark, I say something like, "hey, let's do round two somewhere else." You may get some, "I have to work (or class) the next day" resistance, that's why it's important to do it on the early side, since this early in evening, it's still too early to raise this concern. She can't argue with you.

This--if I haven't already done so--is where I suggest that we go to my place, so I can "make her that drink" or whatever bachelor-pad bait I've used that night. What's more, "I live pretty close from here anyway." She knows that I'm going to try something, because I've done everything in my power to subtly suggest it, but she can reasonably expect that that's going to be merely making out. A little private make-out session probably sounds good (and safe) to her, so she's more-than-likely going to be down.

This is where not spending your make-out token plays a big part. She has iron-clad plausible deniability that all you're looking for is a private place to make out with her, that's all. Because nothing's happened so far, she feels a lot less committed about going over to your place than if you'd already made out and the next thing on the escalation hierarchy has to be sexual.

Because you've been charming and cool, you don't seem like a chump who can't put it down either. She wants to make out with you and recognizes this is her chance.

Step 5. Keep up the energy from the first venue on the move to your place.
This is important, and where I believe most guys go wrong on the move to their place. Having had only one drink, this girl is not intoxicated and she's going to the apartment of a dude she's known for an aggregate of maybe two hours, if that. Her hamster is going to be working on overdrive and you need to strangle that little bastard before he fucks you up.

One of my few talents--that I probably milk to death in my game--is making people feel at ease. I don't know why this is, but I'm often called "disarming." I'm very good about telling stories and eliciting related stories from girls and keeping them distracted. Because your place (if you've done your logistical homework correctly) is only like 10-15 minutes away, you only need to keep up this act for a short period.

If you can't talk about interesting stuff for a continuous 15 minutes, go directly to the newbie forum this instant, and stay there until you can.

I'm shocked at how consistently girls will comment on the "danger" of going home "with a stranger." It's like they're reading from a script. I had, literally, three girls over the course of the past 10 days say the same, identical shit. Of course, girls love "dangerous situations" so play on that. Why do hot girls love horror movies and hanging around with social deviants? It some psychological hard-wiring.

I always say, "what's the worst that can happen?" with an ironic tone in my voice. Gets them laughing every time. Sometimes, depending on the personality of the girl, I lay it on thick about chopping them up into little bits and adding them to my white-girl collection.

Step 6. Get her comfortable and situated in your spot.
I have the same exact routine when I come into my place with a girl. It's so similar that I sometimes feel a little dirty and guilty about it. Mostly, though, I feel like I'm going to work.

We come in; I tell them it's a "shoeless house"; I wait for them to take off their boots (and wait for them to comment about how their socks don't match, which they always do); I apologize for the "mess" because I "didn't expect to have guests" (bullshit, of course); and I give them "the tour"--which is also pre-scripted. I tell them to sit down on my couch (which is also my bed) and "get comfortable." I start the same exact playlist iTunes on my big multimedia setup and go to work on the same one or two drinks I know how to make.

If she has to piss, I let her do that. Same. Thing. Every Time.

Having a polished system like this helps.

Step 7. Give her the drink, sit down, and go back to work.
Now you're in the home stretch, player. You're comfortable and isolated. It gets easy from here. I usually sip the drink with her and chat for another 10-12 minutes; just long enough for her to barely start to wonder if I'm actually not going to make a move. "Is this guy actually atttracted to me? Is he a pussy? He seems into me, though. What the fuck?" Then, if she hasn't set her drink down herself already, I take her drink, set it on the coffee table, and start the make out.

It's amazing how enthusiastic a little waiting will have made her to receive your manly advances. They devour me half the time. The last one squealed in glee a little.

Step 8. Escalate like a champ.
This is where your old friend plausible deniability goes to bat for you. She only "expected" a private little make-out session--since you smartly left that token in your pocket--but if your make-out game is tight, you're a master at smoothly rounding those bases. Escalate expertly, like the goddamn RVF champ that you are. Because my couch doubles as a bed, I lay them out and go to town. I deflect LMR by periodically coming back up for "a sip of our drinks," before going back to work and advancing the ball upfield each time.

Step 9. Bang.
My conversion rates are considerably higher with this framework than going old-school: doing the make out at the venue and trying to get her back to my place after that. Invariably, you end up having to go for the bang on the second date (if she doesn't flake in between), because she sees the make-out as "giving you enough" to string your hongry-ass along for longer. But with this recipe, not getting the bang is more the exception than the rule. Of course I've had a few of prospects stop short. But I get farther along nonetheless. And, in one of those situations I was, quite literally, cockblocked by a tampon.

Needless to say, your rock-solid logistical planning is going to yield dividends at the bang stage. The good music, nice lighting, and prompt condom access lubricates your dick right into to the love canal.

I don't need to remind you to make sure you put it down respectably, at least. Even if you're not a sex god, make it memorable.

Step 10. Damage Control.
If you're like me, you prefer to bang prospects a few times (rather than once). Call me a romantic. If that's also your goal, you want to be prepared to do a little bit of damage control on the rapid bang. (Keep in mind that you will have banged this girl with three or four hours.) That doesn't mean you have to assuage every weird little emotion she may be going through, it just means you have to go back to being your cool, charming self for a while. It should be seamless.

This is probably cheesy (and unnecessary), but I sometimes throw this in at the end: "Whoa. I didn't expect that to happen."

--

Endnote:

The interesting part about this whole thing is that I (indirectly) learned this move from a chick. Who says you can't learn game from a woman? Just don't listen to to women, watch them. You can learn some shit.

The chick was this cute, but super-shy, college girl who was giving me mad signals. After dropping some solid game at a local lounge (on a "first date"), which brought her out of her shell, I went for the make out. This is how it went down:

Shy Girl [backing away from me]: Here?!
Tuthmosis: Yeah. [incredulously and continuing to advance]
Shy Girl: I don't really like P.D.A. [public display of affection, in case you don't know]
Tuthmosis: Well, I live less than 10 minutes from here. Let's go. [I actually lived 15 minutes from that place]
Grabbed her by the wrist and bounced.

The light bulb went off after that: some girls prefer to "make out" in private. Live and learn.

in All those steps , i would keep number 5.

The most difficult step is when you say `' lets go to my place' , its almost like saying ' lets bang'

honnestly , unless the girl is really attracted to you' most girls will say no in the first date.

in some countries like US , girls are less conservative and used to bang from even first seconds but for most countries that is not the case.

[BlastbeatCasanova]

I can’t remember if I posted in this thread before (on mobile at the moment so I can’t check) but the guys I know who get solid amounts of ass (myself included at one point) have airtight logistics in their favor.

[casa-nostra]

(04-18-2019 11:35 AM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  

I can’t remember if I posted in this thread before (on mobile at the moment so I can’t check) but the guys I know who get solid amounts of ass (myself included at one point) have airtight logistics in their favor.

Everyone is saying that logicistes is the key , But NO , yes its one of the factors , But they key is girl itself . If the girl is more looking for bf and LTR . most probably she will decline your invitation.