[Pusscrook]

So, you're the President now....... both sides of the isle are screaming for illegal immigration reform, (what's new),but, we have this problem of the "anchor babies" (roughly about 5-10 million) that were born here, and now you may have to deal with it in terms of separating child/children who were born here, from the parents who were not born here. What's your solution?

[G.L.Piggy]

There is no direct, viable political solution to that problem. As President, you push to stop the kind of immigration that you don't want and that you know your country can't handle while offering an olive branch to those who are in favor of encouraging skilled immigration.

[G.L.Piggy]

But this is now an intractable mess that we really shouldn't have to be dealing with in the first place. But that's the nature of liberalism - it forces you to deal with "manufactured" problems. Sort of like the single motherhood problem foisted on us by the Sexual Revolution and feminism. The true solution to not having to handle poorly developed bastard children is to not encourage single motherhood through social acceptance or government assistance. But since Pandora's box was opened, the frame has shifted and we now operate as if single mother households were always the norm.

The way I see it, offspring are being used as pawns to advance another progressive agenda. It's quite sick when you think about it.

[Pusscrook]

(10-20-2011 05:01 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

But this is now an intractable mess that we really shouldn't have to be dealing with in the first place. But that's the nature of liberalism - it forces you to deal with "manufactured" problems. Sort of like the single motherhood problem foisted on us by the Sexual Revolution and feminism. The true solution to not having to handle poorly developed bastard children is to not encourage single motherhood through social acceptance or government assistance. But since Pandora's box was opened, the frame has shifted and we now operate as if single mother households were always the norm.

The way I see it, offspring are being used as pawns to advance another progressive agenda. It's quite sick when you think about it.

Come on Piggy, tell us what you would do.You're the President now.

[Basil Ransom]

(10-20-2011 05:05 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2011 05:01 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

But this is now an intractable mess that we really shouldn't have to be dealing with in the first place. But that's the nature of liberalism - it forces you to deal with "manufactured" problems. Sort of like the single motherhood problem foisted on us by the Sexual Revolution and feminism. The true solution to not having to handle poorly developed bastard children is to not encourage single motherhood through social acceptance or government assistance. But since Pandora's box was opened, the frame has shifted and we now operate as if single mother households were always the norm.

The way I see it, offspring are being used as pawns to advance another progressive agenda. It's quite sick when you think about it.

Come on Piggy, tell us what you would do.You're the President now.

Deportation is a viable option, insofar as there the will to execute it. But when even the strong critics of illegal immigration have no such will, like Mr. Piggy here apparently, nothing will happen. Pointing fingers once the problem has already occurred certainly does nothing to fix the situation.

For every illegal alien deported by Operation Wetback, there were eight or nine illegal aliens who left of their own accord. In states with strict immigration laws, such as Arizona and Alabama. Mexico deports their illegals, and so can we.

The illegal immigration 'debate' is ridiculous - pro-illegal factions are using the continued violation of the law as a bargaining tactic. They're saying "I'm not going to enforce the law until you give me what I want." Usually, this goes by the name of 'bribery.'

[Pusscrook]

(10-20-2011 05:31 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(10-20-2011 05:05 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2011 05:01 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

But this is now an intractable mess that we really shouldn't have to be dealing with in the first place. But that's the nature of liberalism - it forces you to deal with "manufactured" problems. Sort of like the single motherhood problem foisted on us by the Sexual Revolution and feminism. The true solution to not having to handle poorly developed bastard children is to not encourage single motherhood through social acceptance or government assistance. But since Pandora's box was opened, the frame has shifted and we now operate as if single mother households were always the norm.

The way I see it, offspring are being used as pawns to advance another progressive agenda. It's quite sick when you think about it.

Come on Piggy, tell us what you would do.You're the President now.

Deportation is a viable option, insofar as there the will to execute it. But when even the strong critics of illegal immigration have no such will, like Mr. Piggy here apparently, nothing will happen. Pointing fingers once the problem has already occurred certainly does nothing to fix the situation.

For every illegal alien deported by Operation Wetback, there were eight or nine illegal aliens who left of their own accord. In states with strict immigration laws, such as Arizona and Alabama. Mexico deports their illegals, and so can we.

The illegal immigration 'debate' is ridiculous - pro-illegal factions are using the continued violation of the law as a bargaining tactic. They're saying "I'm not going to enforce the law until you give me what I want." Usually, this goes by the name of 'bribery.'

So, with all that said, what would you do, Mr. President?

[Smitty]

Deport the illegals. If they have children who are citizens and minors, the children go with them unless they can provide a legal guardian with whom the child can live. The difference between the child and the parent is that the child would have the option of returning anytime -- into the custody of a legal guardian -- but the parent cannot return unless properly documented (visa, etc).

I'd then push for an amendment that denies children citizenship for simply being born in the U.S.
I believe in the Constitution, but the 14th Amendment was adopted in 1868 to prevent the disenfranchisement of freed slaves...not to provide citizenship to illegal immigrants.

[G.L.Piggy]

(10-20-2011 05:05 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2011 05:01 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

But this is now an intractable mess that we really shouldn't have to be dealing with in the first place. But that's the nature of liberalism - it forces you to deal with "manufactured" problems. Sort of like the single motherhood problem foisted on us by the Sexual Revolution and feminism. The true solution to not having to handle poorly developed bastard children is to not encourage single motherhood through social acceptance or government assistance. But since Pandora's box was opened, the frame has shifted and we now operate as if single mother households were always the norm.

The way I see it, offspring are being used as pawns to advance another progressive agenda. It's quite sick when you think about it.

Come on Piggy, tell us what you would do.You're the President now.

Being President involves having to balance principle with politics. But if politics were somehow thrown out the window...I guess I'd have a multi-prong approach.

1. Allow people that were educated in U.S. colleges (not at subsidized tuitions, we want the wealthiest and brightest from other countries, not the dregs) greater ability to obtain visas and citizenship. More visas for STEM graduates, especially for those who want to start businesses. Doctors too.

2. We can use that political bone throw to push a closed border agenda. Quid pro quo. A fence won't work. Most illegals come into this country on temporary visas and just overstay their time allotment. We need harsher penalties on employers who are caught employing illegals. The problem there: how do you figure out if someone is actually an illegal?

3. Propaganda war. Focus on a lot of the people who are Occupying Wall Street and point out to them that a lot of domestic unemployment is due to the cheap labor coming up through Mexico and Central America. We have to break that illogical double standard held by many liberals and progressives - that they can be internationalist sympathizers while also being mad about fewer job opportunities.

4. A Constitutional Amendment that the offspring of two undocumented residents cannot be considered a birthright citizen. This entails more regulation of some kind, but that is the game we're playing now.

5. Reallocate some military spending towards policing our borders. Fingerprint culprits to put into a national database that will be used in the future. Fingerprinting these people will prevent them from trying to gain employment in the future.

6. Legalize marijuana. Crime from drug cartels is killing northern Mexican industry and forcing many of the citizens there to seek employment in the U.S. The cartels are largely a function of the weed bottleneck coalescing at our border. A few cartels are fighting for territory to enter that black market. Legalize it and the cartels lose most of their power.

I think my proposal has enough of a mix of conservative, radical, and moderate prescriptions to keep the voting masses thoroughly confused. Which means I might have a chance.

[Pusscrook]

(10-20-2011 06:15 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

(10-20-2011 05:05 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2011 05:01 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

But this is now an intractable mess that we really shouldn't have to be dealing with in the first place. But that's the nature of liberalism - it forces you to deal with "manufactured" problems. Sort of like the single motherhood problem foisted on us by the Sexual Revolution and feminism. The true solution to not having to handle poorly developed bastard children is to not encourage single motherhood through social acceptance or government assistance. But since Pandora's box was opened, the frame has shifted and we now operate as if single mother households were always the norm.

The way I see it, offspring are being used as pawns to advance another progressive agenda. It's quite sick when you think about it.

Come on Piggy, tell us what you would do.You're the President now.

Being President involves having to balance principle with politics. But if politics were somehow thrown out the window...I guess I'd have a multi-prong approach.

1. Allow people that were educated in U.S. colleges (not at subsidized tuitions, we want the wealthiest and brightest from other countries, not the dregs) greater ability to obtain visas and citizenship. More visas for STEM graduates, especially for those who want to start businesses. Doctors too.

2. We can use that political bone throw to push a closed border agenda. Quid pro quo. A fence won't work. Most illegals come into this country on temporary visas and just overstay their time allotment. We need harsher penalties on employers who are caught employing illegals. The problem there: how do you figure out if someone is actually an illegal?

3. Propaganda war. Focus on a lot of the people who are Occupying Wall Street and point out to them that a lot of domestic unemployment is due to the cheap labor coming up through Mexico and Central America. We have to break that illogical double standard held by many liberals and progressives - that they can be internationalist sympathizers while also being mad about fewer job opportunities.

4. A Constitutional Amendment that the offspring of two undocumented residents cannot be considered a birthright citizen. This entails more regulation of some kind, but that is the game we're playing now.

5. Reallocate some military spending towards policing our borders. Fingerprint culprits to put into a national database that will be used in the future. Fingerprinting these people will prevent them from trying to gain employment in the future.

6. Legalize marijuana. Crime from drug cartels is killing northern Mexican industry and forcing many of the citizens there to seek employment in the U.S. The cartels are largely a function of the weed bottleneck coalescing at our border. A few cartels are fighting for territory to enter that black market. Legalize it and the cartels lose most of their power.

I think my proposal has enough of a mix of conservative, radical, and moderate prescriptions to keep the voting masses thoroughly confused. Which means I might have a chance.

lol, ok, I only asked about how you would handle "anchor babies", so #2 and #4, is our point of focus , agreed? If you do agree with that, you still didn't give a way to deal with illegal immigration today.

[OGNorCal707]

Anyone notice how these forums have become more politically driven lately? I'm not sure if I think it's a good thing or bad thing? I will say I'm surprised by how forum members seem to be spread all over the map as far as their political beliefs.

[Basil Ransom]

(10-20-2011 06:15 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

A fence won't work. Most illegals come into this country on temporary visas and just overstay their time allotment. We need harsher penalties on employers who are caught employing illegals. The problem there: how do you figure out if someone is actually an illegal?

Aw fuck, did the Mexicans discover teleportation before we did?

If you make something harder to do, it will happen less: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Wes...nsequences http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...Id=5323928

(10-20-2011 06:15 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

6. Legalize marijuana. Crime from drug cartels is killing northern Mexican industry and forcing many of the citizens there to seek employment in the U.S. The cartels are largely a function of the weed bottleneck coalescing at our border. A few cartels are fighting for territory to enter that black market. Legalize it and the cartels lose most of their power.

The opposite is also possible: Marijuana money is enriching Mexico. Hard to say what the net effect is.

[Pusscrook]

(10-20-2011 06:40 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Anyone notice how these forums have become more politically driven lately? I'm not sure if I think it's a good thing or bad thing? I will say I'm surprised by how forum members seem to be spread all over the map as far as their political beliefs.

You gotta be versatile in here , OG. Anything less, is ...well, grounds for you to go to another forum.

[JayMillz]

(10-20-2011 04:45 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

So, you're the President now....... both sides of the isle are screaming for illegal immigration reform, (what's new),but, we have this problem of the "anchor babies" (roughly about 5-10 million) that were born here, and now you may have to deal with it in terms of separating child/children who were born here, from the parents who were not born here. What's your solution?

I would deport the illegals and give the parents the option to keep the kids with them so they can make the decision about separation and not me. They knew this risk when they broke the law so it should come as no surprise to them.

[PDX]

I think it's funny that members of a forum that advocates traveling to other countries to swoop their women can take such a harsh view of immigrants looking for work.

(Don't read into that too much.)

[G.L.Piggy]

Pusscrook:

that is why this is such a complicated issue. i say we swallow the medicine now and accept that we're stuck with who we are stuck with. the revamped policies and amendment will hopefully prevent it from getting worse.

what would you do?

[JayMillz]

(10-20-2011 07:04 PM)PDX Wrote:  

I think it's funny that members of a forum that advocates traveling to other countries to swoop their women can take such a harsh view of immigrants looking for work.

(Don't read into that too much.)

Another option is to arrest them and create more jobs in America for folks that want to manage or work in correctional facilities. In places like Arizona and Texas this is big business. Publicly traded companies run a lot of the facilities that house illegal and criminal aliens. Arizona recently passed a law to address this since the Feds are not doing their job well enough. Obama has deported record numbers this year, but he still almost has to apologize for enforcing the law because this country is going down the drain in terms of respect for law and order.

I can't speak for others, but I think it's a great idea for people to look for work legally and don't think one group of people should be allowed to be above the law while other people have to follow the law.

[JayMillz]

Ooh and I almost forgot, Cain wants to built an electronic fence and just nuke them before they get it.

[speakeasy]

I agree completely with G.L.'s 6 point plan. I also think he's right when he said this is purely a manufactured problem. This didn't have to happen, but it was allowed to. And it's another effect of having too much wealth and power concentrated in too few hands. A reversal of the illegal immigration will probably never happen because it's strongly supported by big business interests in order to drive down the cost of labor. And as we all know, anything big business wants becomes law of the land rammed down our throats, whether we like it or not. Then at the same time, you have this unholy alliance between big business and the ultra-PC left and Latino organizations who think deporting illegals is merely racism. They've done a great job at making people feel guilty about opposing it. In states like California where half the population is Latino, there is hardly a Latino here that is not either an illegal immigrant, the son/daughter of someone who came here illegally, has an illegal immigrant family member, or is close friends with someone that is either illegal or came here illegally. At half the population, guess how they are going to vote on any illegal immigration initiative? So in places like the southwest where there is a large Latino population, doing anything about it is pretty much impossible at this point. Too many forces at work trying to undermine the enforceability of immigration laws. I don't have shit against Mexicans or any other Latin people, but that doesn't mean I believe in opening our border to every single person that wants to come in.

[Pusscrook]

(10-20-2011 07:04 PM)G.L.Piggy Wrote:  

Pusscrook:

that is why this is such a complicated issue. i say we swallow the medicine now and accept that we're stuck with who we are stuck with. the revamped policies and amendment will hopefully prevent it from getting worse.

what would you do?

Mmhmm, so far I agree with you, but the ones you got here are still illegal, burning up tax money , and fleecing the government in any way possible. So, what do you do with those? What do you do with those who have children?

[JayMillz]

Let me clear up one thing ... if we were talking about only letting beautiful women from somewhere like Brazil or Sweden come here illegally, I would be for that.

[thekiller]

I think the recent exodus in Alabama proved you don't have to deport illegals, just make the environment legally unfriendly for them and they deport themselves.

I would make E-Verify mandatory and actually ENFORCE the laws we already have.

With unemployment stated at 9% (meaning it's really more like 16% if you count those that have given up looking) I can't believe this is not more of a hot button issue.

I think if more people knew the number of illegals clogging our jails AND the crimes they commit there would be less tolerance. I'm not just talking about Mexicans either, while in Washington State they are the majority of illegals in jail, (former) Eastern Bloc whites seem to be given their countries a bad name.

[Pusscrook]

Just some ideas...

1. I agree that there are existing laws on the books that are not being enforced.

It seems a lot of this starts with corruption in agencies such as social security, dmv, welfare dept. etc.... THere should be a major cleansing in each part of the government that deals with immigration, coupled with stiffer jail time for employees who help in producing fraudulent documents. You shouldn't be able to go to the DMV in New Mexico, or Washington, and get a drivers license just because you rented an apartment in your name for 6 months.

I don't think the "E-verify" ideas/penalties are stiff enough to deter employers from hiring illegals. I would incorporate a seizure of assets, shut down clause, 100k per illegal employee fine and/or jail time of at least 1 year for employers who intentionally deceives tax payers by hiring illegal labor.

On the other hand, somethings that's happening today is , we tend to focus on people of Spanish descent when we talk about illegal immigration. It's as if Asians, Indo -Europeans , Africans, somehow, have fallen of the radar. This leads to a lot of race baiting and profiling that is quite lop-sided, and counter productive.

Since I think that rounding all illegal immigrants up and shipping them back home is not cost effective, nor, would it make any moral sense to separate a family of (4) four, who have been here for years, why not turn this into a surplus?

1. I would give each illegal immigrant 180 days to come forward and enter into the system.

2. For those that enter into the system voluntarily, I will give them the option to pay a fine (let's say 10,000 as a number to get a conversation going) over the 180 day period. Why ship all of them back instead of getting something out of them now? This gives me capital, I saved us all of the shipping fees, and, I appear compassionate.

3. Within that same 180 days, you must learn basic English and pledge your allegiance to the country.( I think Germany has some similar laws to this).

4. After the 180 days are up, I would authorize all law enforcement agencies (upon discovering someone is illegal) to turn each individual over to the dept. of Homeland security for shipping. This is only for those who have refused to come out of the shadows and participate.

I figure this way I get to kill two birds with one stone. I know who is in the country upon participation, and, I can make some money at the same time. Sort of a hybrid between amnesty and enforcement.

We can't honestly say that illegals are the sole cause of our pain and suffering in terms of health care cost(as an example)when there are more Americans who don't have health care ,yet,go to the hospital and pump out 6 fucking kids, and defraud welfare just the same. How do hospitals get paid when a U.S. citizen without insurance goes for care?

[thekiller]

(10-24-2011 08:43 AM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

Just some ideas...

1. I agree that there are existing laws on the books that are not being enforced.

It seems a lot of this starts with corruption in agencies such as social security, dmv, welfare dept. etc.... THere should be a major cleansing in each part of the government that deals with immigration, coupled with stiffer jail time for employees who help in producing fraudulent documents. You shouldn't be able to go to the DMV in New Mexico, or Washington, and get a drivers license just because you rented an apartment in your name for 6 months.

I don't think the "E-verify" ideas/penalties are stiff enough to deter employers from hiring illegals. I would incorporate a seizure of assets, shut down clause, 100k per illegal employee fine and/or jail time of at least 1 year for employers who intentionally deceives tax payers by hiring illegal labor.

On the other hand, somethings that's happening today is , we tend to focus on people of Spanish descent when we talk about illegal immigration. It's as if Asians, Indo -Europeans , Africans, somehow, have fallen of the radar. This leads to a lot of race baiting and profiling that is quite lop-sided, and counter productive.

Since I think that rounding all illegal immigrants up and shipping them back home is not cost effective, nor, would it make any moral sense to separate a family of (4) four, who have been here for years, why not turn this into a surplus?

1. I would give each illegal immigrant 180 days to come forward and enter into the system.

2. For those that enter into the system voluntarily, I will give them the option to pay a fine (let's say 10,000 as a number to get a conversation going) over the 180 day period. Why ship all of them back instead of getting something out of them now? This gives me capital, I saved us all of the shipping fees, and, I appear compassionate.

3. Within that same 180 days, you must learn basic English and pledge your allegiance to the country.( I think Germany has some similar laws to this).

4. After the 180 days are up, I would authorize all law enforcement agencies (upon discovering someone is illegal) to turn each individual over to the dept. of Homeland security for shipping. This is only for those who have refused to come out of the shadows and participate.

I figure this way I get to kill two birds with one stone. I know who is in the country upon participation, and, I can make some money at the same time. Sort of a hybrid between amnesty and enforcement.

We can't honestly say that illegals are the sole cause of our pain and suffering in terms of health care cost(as an example)when there are more Americans who don't have health care ,yet,go to the hospital and pump out 6 fucking kids, and defraud welfare just the same. How do hospitals get paid when a U.S. citizen without insurance goes for care?

Governmental "baseline budgeting" is one reason. Welfare Departments must spend their current years budget in order to keep it the same and/or grow it. I know people who have called the local office here to report fraud and they're laughed off.

While in general I like your plan, it has too many steps and would NEVER be implemented.

President Reagan already granted an Amnesty back in the 80s that was supposed to "cure" the problem. All it did was tell illegals if they wait long enough they'll get let in.

Enforce the laws we have on the books. Make E-Verify Mandatory. Increase penalties for businesses. Punish sanctuary cities. Reduce entitlements. Keep a list of all illegals that commit crimes and then bar them from EVER being legal or getting a work visa. End baseline budgeting for ALL government agencies.

[Pusscrook]

(10-25-2011 12:57 AM)thekiller Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 08:43 AM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

Just some ideas...

1. I agree that there are existing laws on the books that are not being enforced.

It seems a lot of this starts with corruption in agencies such as social security, dmv, welfare dept. etc.... THere should be a major cleansing in each part of the government that deals with immigration, coupled with stiffer jail time for employees who help in producing fraudulent documents. You shouldn't be able to go to the DMV in New Mexico, or Washington, and get a drivers license just because you rented an apartment in your name for 6 months.

I don't think the "E-verify" ideas/penalties are stiff enough to deter employers from hiring illegals. I would incorporate a seizure of assets, shut down clause, 100k per illegal employee fine and/or jail time of at least 1 year for employers who intentionally deceives tax payers by hiring illegal labor.

On the other hand, somethings that's happening today is , we tend to focus on people of Spanish descent when we talk about illegal immigration. It's as if Asians, Indo -Europeans , Africans, somehow, have fallen of the radar. This leads to a lot of race baiting and profiling that is quite lop-sided, and counter productive.

Since I think that rounding all illegal immigrants up and shipping them back home is not cost effective, nor, would it make any moral sense to separate a family of (4) four, who have been here for years, why not turn this into a surplus?

1. I would give each illegal immigrant 180 days to come forward and enter into the system.

2. For those that enter into the system voluntarily, I will give them the option to pay a fine (let's say 10,000 as a number to get a conversation going) over the 180 day period. Why ship all of them back instead of getting something out of them now? This gives me capital, I saved us all of the shipping fees, and, I appear compassionate.

3. Within that same 180 days, you must learn basic English and pledge your allegiance to the country.( I think Germany has some similar laws to this).

4. After the 180 days are up, I would authorize all law enforcement agencies (upon discovering someone is illegal) to turn each individual over to the dept. of Homeland security for shipping. This is only for those who have refused to come out of the shadows and participate.

I figure this way I get to kill two birds with one stone. I know who is in the country upon participation, and, I can make some money at the same time. Sort of a hybrid between amnesty and enforcement.

We can't honestly say that illegals are the sole cause of our pain and suffering in terms of health care cost(as an example)when there are more Americans who don't have health care ,yet,go to the hospital and pump out 6 fucking kids, and defraud welfare just the same. How do hospitals get paid when a U.S. citizen without insurance goes for care?

Governmental "baseline budgeting" is one reason. Welfare Departments must spend their current years budget in order to keep it the same and/or grow it. I know people who have called the local office here to report fraud and they're laughed off.

While in general I like your plan, it has too many steps and would NEVER be implemented.

President Reagan already granted an Amnesty back in the 80s that was supposed to "cure" the problem. All it did was tell illegals if they wait long enough they'll get let in.

Enforce the laws we have on the books. Make E-Verify Mandatory. Increase penalties for businesses. Punish sanctuary cities. Reduce entitlements. Keep a list of all illegals that commit crimes and then bar them from EVER being legal or getting a work visa. End baseline budgeting for ALL government agencies.

I like your plan too. Big difference in Reagan's amnesty program, there were no fines attached to it , so everyone got off scott free. This is an abomination. Obama to date has deported more illegal aliens than any other administration combined, yet, no fines. So whether you enforce, or not enforce, why not make some money off of it? It is available you know.