[Barron]

I'm headed to Utrecht on Thursday with a pal, then on to Amsterdam, now this happens.

Three people have been killed following a shooting on a tram in the central Dutch city of Utrecht, the city's mayor says.

Five others were injured in the incident, which police say appears to be a terrorist attack.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47615231

Quote:

Police are looking for a 37-year-old Turkish man named as Gokmen Tanis and have warned people not to approach him.

Schools have closed and security has been increased while counter-terrorism police work to find the gunman.

"Our country today has been jolted by an attack," Prime Minister Mark Rutte said on Monday. "Police and prosecutors are looking into what exactly happened."

"What's known now is that there was shooting at people sitting in a tram," he added. He described the attack as "deeply disturbing".

I was going there specifically to avoid Muslims, Utrecht is supposed to be a university town...

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

A religion so peaceful it takes it only two days to retaliate...

[Harem Scarem]

I normally only lurk on this forum but I wanted to react to this. You should go. It's a lovely place. If the weather is nice, grab beers on the canal side. Just stay in the city centre. The odds of falling in the canal and drowning are bigger than being murdered by terrorists.

However if you absolutely do not want to be within 25 km of Muslims then you should not go, because like all of the big four Dutch cities, there are many Turks (4%) and Moroccans (9%) living in outer boroughs of the city. Kanaleneiland, where this attack happened, is notorious. But there's nothing worth visiting there anyway. When you see quaint little streets, canals, and churches, you're in the right spot. Hit up student dives, swoop naïve Green Left-voting chicks. Good times.

There is a lot to say about this attack and it's a worrying sign. But there is a difference between being concerned and vigilant on the one hand, and overly panicking on the other. Even as far as a terrorist attack goes, this one is pretty dumb. He entered the tram, unloaded on people, and fucked off. Bad news, but not a sophisticated terror plot. We have mostly avoided this shit so far, partly thanks to police thwarting plots by actually acting on signs of trouble. Maybe the French and British cops can take lessons from ours, if they're not too busy brutalising yellow vests and monitoring dissidents.

[Barron]

(03-18-2019 11:26 AM)wwsd Wrote:  

I normally only lurk on this forum but I wanted to react to this. You should go. It's a lovely place. If the weather is nice, grab beers on the canal side. Just stay in the city centre. The odds of falling in the canal and drowning are bigger than being murdered by terrorists.

However if you absolutely do not want to be within 25 km of Muslims then you should not go, because like all of the big four Dutch cities, there are many Turks (4%) and Moroccans (9%) living in outer boroughs of the city. Kanaleneiland, where this attack happened, is notorious. But there's nothing worth visiting there anyway. When you see quaint little streets, canals, and churches, you're in the right spot. Hit up student dives, swoop naïve Green Left-voting chicks. Good times.

There is a lot to say about this attack and it's a worrying sign. But there is a difference between being concerned and vigilant on the one hand, and overly panicking on the other. Even as far as a terrorist attack goes, this one is pretty dumb. He entered the tram, unloaded on people, and fucked off. Bad news, but not a sophisticated terror plot. We have mostly avoided this shit so far, partly thanks to police thwarting plots by actually acting on signs of trouble. Maybe the French and British cops can take lessons from ours, if they're not too busy brutalising yellow vests and monitoring dissidents.

Thanks for this. Apparently this wasn't an isolated incident

Quote:

"We cannot exclude a terrorist motive," Dutch anti-terrorism co-ordinator Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg told a news conference on Monday.

He added that there had been shootings at "several locations", but did not elaborate on where these were.

[balybary]

Sounds like the classic muslim criminal who, after a life laden with bad things, wants the 40 virgins and the 40 little boys "servant" in afterlife.

https://www.rtbf.be/info/monde/detail_fu...d=10173938

Quote:

Little is known about Tanis' past. According to the daily Algemeen Dagblad, the suspect appeared before a court in Utrecht on 4 March in a rape case.

[Harem Scarem]

(03-18-2019 11:29 AM)Barron Wrote:  

(03-18-2019 11:26 AM)wwsd Wrote:  

I normally only lurk on this forum but I wanted to react to this. You should go. It's a lovely place. If the weather is nice, grab beers on the canal side. Just stay in the city centre. The odds of falling in the canal and drowning are bigger than being murdered by terrorists.

However if you absolutely do not want to be within 25 km of Muslims then you should not go, because like all of the big four Dutch cities, there are many Turks (4%) and Moroccans (9%) living in outer boroughs of the city. Kanaleneiland, where this attack happened, is notorious. But there's nothing worth visiting there anyway. When you see quaint little streets, canals, and churches, you're in the right spot. Hit up student dives, swoop naïve Green Left-voting chicks. Good times.

There is a lot to say about this attack and it's a worrying sign. But there is a difference between being concerned and vigilant on the one hand, and overly panicking on the other. Even as far as a terrorist attack goes, this one is pretty dumb. He entered the tram, unloaded on people, and fucked off. Bad news, but not a sophisticated terror plot. We have mostly avoided this shit so far, partly thanks to police thwarting plots by actually acting on signs of trouble. Maybe the French and British cops can take lessons from ours, if they're not too busy brutalising yellow vests and monitoring dissidents.

Thanks for this. Apparently this wasn't an isolated incident

Quote:

"We cannot exclude a terrorist motive," Dutch anti-terrorism co-ordinator Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg told a news conference on Monday.

He added that there had been shootings at "several locations", but did not elaborate on where these were.

They have since withdrawn that and they're looking at one shooting by one perp who is still on the run. There are no eyewitness reports or amateur footage of any other incidents in any other locations, neither in Utrecht nor in other parts of the country, neither in the MSM nor in alternative media. The quote was made in the morning and is typical of the kind of hedging and vagueness that authorities tend to apply in the early stages of emergencies.

[Avey]

It's kind of amazing he got away and they still haven't found him.
Maybe he has a safe house like that one terrorist in Molenbeek had

[Orson]

Newest online report has many claimed details, from the Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...tion-small

Terrorism or a family murder (as Turkish relatives claim) lurching into terrorism?

[Harem Scarem]

Thankfully, they've already arrested the guy (and supposedly also his brother). I would have been very surprised if he'd been able to lay low for any extended period. There are some notoriously shitty neighbourhoods inhabited by scum in Utrecht (including where the shooting happened), but not vast sprawling ghettos where a wanted terrorist could just disappear off the grid. Especially in light of the following:

(03-18-2019 11:32 AM)balybary Wrote:  

Sounds like the classic muslim criminal who, after a life laden with bad things, wants the 40 virgins and the 40 little boys "servant" in afterlife.

https://www.rtbf.be/info/monde/detail_fu...d=10173938

Quote:

Little is known about Tanis' past. According to the daily Algemeen Dagblad, the suspect appeared before a court in Utrecht on 4 March in a rape case.

I think this will turn out to be a very accurate assessment. I saw some interviews with people who knew the guy. He must have been a real piece of work. A pious Muslim with DUI on his record, go figure. I don't regard Muslim communities in this country very highly, but I assume most of them would understand what a liability an asshole like that is, even the ones with Jihadist sympathies. You'd have to be pretty retarded to shelter a guy like that. He would probably leave a massive trail behind him.

He's a typical exponent of what we call "gangster Islam". It is likely that honour killing and terrorism have come together here. Like he could exact revenge on an ex-girlfriend or an in-law who has brought shame upon the family for whatever reason, and shoot some white passers-by at the same time to make a shout-out for Jihad and avenge Christchurch. Then random ISIS accounts will praise you as a martyr instead of a 37-year-old failure at life.

[Once Was Not]

Woah, woah guys. Let's not be hasty here. There are an infinite number of explanations for this, and each needs to be examined carefully. Maybe a Nazi spewed a slur at him on the way home from his wholesome day of praying at the mosque and he was just upset and afraid for his life? It's probably the racism and bigotry of the White Imperialist Colonialist Dutch that drove him to this. See? There is potentially a lot to unpack here.

[catoblepa]

If you ask me religious terrorism is an excuse for beta rage and sexual frustration.

[nomadbrah]

Muslims are very predictable in their emotional rage. It's why they've been chosen as the sword against Rome for 1400 years.

[Que enspastic]

I’ve been to Utrecht, it’s pretty chill, small. It’s all about the canal. I preferred Amsterdam but I prefer cities to large towns

The Muslim communities in Netherlands & Belgium are not great tbh. I don’t see what value add they offer - should have gone with Buddhist or Shinto Asians in retrospect. The rationalist Dutch Renaissance and the religiously prescriptive modern day sects of Islam don’t really have anything in common, not a great mix

[Lime]

delete

[Sherman]

I use to live in the Netherlands and the train would go through Utrecht on the way to Amsterdam. There was actually a Mosque down the street from where I lived, but nobody ever bothered me. I wonder how this is going to change Dutch society. Having a safe and peaceful place is really part of their culture. I could go for months without seeing a police car.

[Pride male]

After the West falls it will be interesting to see how China and Japan deal with Islam.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

(03-18-2019 11:26 AM)wwsd Wrote:  

I normally only lurk on this forum but I wanted to react to this. You should go. It's a lovely place. If the weather is nice, grab beers on the canal side. Just stay in the city centre. The odds of falling in the canal and drowning are bigger than being murdered by terrorists.

However if you absolutely do not want to be within 25 km of Muslims then you should not go, because like all of the big four Dutch cities, there are many Turks (4%) and Moroccans (9%) living in outer boroughs of the city. Kanaleneiland, where this attack happened, is notorious. But there's nothing worth visiting there anyway. When you see quaint little streets, canals, and churches, you're in the right spot. Hit up student dives, swoop naïve Green Left-voting chicks. Good times.

There is a lot to say about this attack and it's a worrying sign. But there is a difference between being concerned and vigilant on the one hand, and overly panicking on the other. Even as far as a terrorist attack goes, this one is pretty dumb. He entered the tram, unloaded on people, and fucked off. Bad news, but not a sophisticated terror plot. We have mostly avoided this shit so far, partly thanks to police thwarting plots by actually acting on signs of trouble. Maybe the French and British cops can take lessons from ours, if they're not too busy brutalising yellow vests and monitoring dissidents.

Agreed. I'm in NL right now, and there's no problem. This kind of thing is like lightning striking. Unfortunate for the people involved, but very low probability for others. The city center is where you want to visit anyway, and there's not much more chance of problems here than any other city center in Europe.

I was in Utrecht last fall for a weekend visit, and it's very nice.

[Lime]

(03-19-2019 07:21 AM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

(03-18-2019 11:26 AM)wwsd Wrote:  

I normally only lurk on this forum but I wanted to react to this. You should go. It's a lovely place. If the weather is nice, grab beers on the canal side. Just stay in the city centre. The odds of falling in the canal and drowning are bigger than being murdered by terrorists.

However if you absolutely do not want to be within 25 km of Muslims then you should not go, because like all of the big four Dutch cities, there are many Turks (4%) and Moroccans (9%) living in outer boroughs of the city. Kanaleneiland, where this attack happened, is notorious. But there's nothing worth visiting there anyway. When you see quaint little streets, canals, and churches, you're in the right spot. Hit up student dives, swoop naïve Green Left-voting chicks. Good times.

There is a lot to say about this attack and it's a worrying sign. But there is a difference between being concerned and vigilant on the one hand, and overly panicking on the other. Even as far as a terrorist attack goes, this one is pretty dumb. He entered the tram, unloaded on people, and fucked off. Bad news, but not a sophisticated terror plot. We have mostly avoided this shit so far, partly thanks to police thwarting plots by actually acting on signs of trouble. Maybe the French and British cops can take lessons from ours, if they're not too busy brutalising yellow vests and monitoring dissidents.

Agreed. I'm in NL right now, and there's no problem. This kind of thing is like lightning striking. Unfortunate for the people involved, but very low probability for others. The city center is where you want to visit anyway, and there's not much more chance of problems here than any other city center in Europe.

I was in Utrecht last fall for a weekend visit, and it's very nice.

I've read in a book that 'declinism' is in vogue in (parts) of the USA, in which Americans talk about how fucked up Europe is without ever having been there, and if they hear about a shooting like this, it confirms their ideas. Of course, declinism is big on this forum, and in many cases the points are true. However, there is a bit of a bias involved, it's probably not that this will happens 10 times a year in the near future. Murder rates in NL hover around their all time low (0.55 per 100.000 people, in the US this is 5.35 per 100.000 people). I don't say there are no problems are, but declinists vastly overstate the problems.

[Wreckingball]

(03-19-2019 06:59 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

After the West falls it will be interesting to see how China and Japan deal with Islam.

One bullet to the back of the head and send the bill to the family.

[Harem Scarem]

Just to bump this thread: OP, did you enjoy Utrecht and Amsterdam? Did you visit anywhere else?

I would also note that regional elections were held on the 20th of March, just after the shooting. The regional legislatures are not very interesting, but they do indirectly elect the Senate. The new nationalist party Forum for Democracy (FvD) surged in all the provinces, becoming the biggest in three of them and the biggest nationwide overall, also in the Senate. Now in our fragmented system, that still only comes down to about 15% (plus 5-10% for the more internationally familiar PVV party led by Geert Wilders), but it's still the best ever result for this type of politics. Now FvD has been surging in the polls for a while now, and the attack didn't immediately make people switch to them (especially not in places like Amsterdam or Utrecht, which are reliably extreme-left), but it did help improve the turnout of people who are inclined towards them, which is usually lacklustre for second-tier elections like this.

You can see what FvD are all about by watching the victory speech of their leader, Thierry Baudet, with English subtitles here. I'm proud to have voted for them and I'm quietly confident that we could get a Salvini-style bandwagon effect where the best nationalist forces just keep eating up the rest of the right. The general election is not until 2021 and a lot may happen in the meantime, and the nationalist surge is matched by zealous leftist derangement. But if in 2-5 years' time all the international media are puzzled by this type of politics taking over the Netherlands, just remember that you were the first to hear about it, on the RVF.

[Barron]

Yea I had a great time!
Thanks for all the info you provided. I went with my Ukrainian buddy and discovered that renting a bicycle unlocks the best experience of Utrecht and Amsterdam.

A truly beautiful country with very nice people, Utrecht in particular was very homogenous which was a pleasant surprise. Even walked past a frat house with a bunch of dudes hanging out and noticed they had an American flag on their wall along with a Dutch flag. When I looked back I noticed they had a Trump banner underneath. So I just went up to them and asked them about their fraternity, told them where I was from etc., super nice guys, all of them. They gave us both beers and we hung out for about an hour talking politics and joking about Dutch girls.

Will definitely be going back!

[Harem Scarem]

Were they really pro-Trump or just as an ironic frat boy thing? You don't see that kind of sentiment every day, or at least not visibly expressed. But for sure there are pockets of young dudes out there who know what's what, even about foreign politics. Certainly some fraternity types.

Anyway, good call on the bikes for sure. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. We're having us some great spring weather this weekend (>20C today) so it's great to be out and about right now. Mid to late April it's usually "skirt day", the first sunny day of spring when all the girls are suddenly in skirts and bare legs, without any coordination beforehand. Always a good time of year.

Any particular places in Utrecht that you enjoyed? I haven't been there in several years so my internal "datasheet" is a bit out of date.

[Barron]

They were just conservative guys, proud to be Dutch.
Their house was right across from Lepelenburg Park. But yea, both the flags and banner were up on the wall inside their living room. I only saw it because their place had big sliding glass doors that were completely open to their patio overlooking the park's canal that day.

To be honest I liked everywhere, except maybe the few central streets because they're so compact and so many people on bikes. When crossing streets it's so easy to get clipped by someone on a bike whizzing by just inches from your face. But I also appreciate that the city is optimized for bicycles, with separate lanes and rules for cars, bikes and pedestrians.

And the people on bikes are just that, people on bikes. Not proud faggot cyclists in spandex that entitle themselves to entire car lanes like in the US

[Laner]

(04-07-2019 10:58 AM)Barron Wrote:  

They were just conservative guys, proud to be Dutch.
Their house was right across from Lepelenburg Park. But yea, both the flags and banner were up on the wall inside their living room. I only saw it because their place had big sliding glass doors that were completely open to their patio overlooking the park's canal that day.

To be honest I liked everywhere, except maybe the few central streets because they're so compact and so many people on bikes. When crossing streets it's so easy to get clipped by someone on a bike whizzing by just inches from your face. But I also appreciate that the city is optimized for bicycles, with separate lanes and rules for cars, bikes and pedestrians.

And the people on bikes are just that, people on bikes. Not proud faggot cyclists in spandex that entitle themselves to entire car lanes like in the US

Holland is great. Most people there are pretty conservative, but have a liberal mindset in that they like to be left alone - so that translates into a pretty free culture regarding things like drugs, hookers, immigration. They are also blessed with a pretty high standard in their work and people, so this can be naive in many ways regarding other cultures. "Just move to Holland and work hard and you can live a great life too". Too bad for them, it doesn't work this way and now they are starting to wake up.