[scheme00]

Hey dudes, please chime in on the following. I’m 38, well-traveled and living in Los Angeles. About an 8 at chasing tail and pretty good looking on the looks scale. Run my own buisiness and been single about five years now for the most part with a few micro relationships here and there.

This is what I’ve noticed: Betas win the talent. I’ve been putting in work for over 12 years now, consistently gaming and have been a member of the conservative red-pill for the past 3 years or so, so I’m pretty aware of the alpha/beta dynamic. What I’ve seen over and over is that women want betas these days. The average woman that I am sexually attracted to and interested in ends up dating AND sleeping with the chumpy beta. Guys that blow up their phone consistently and who worship them consistently. I let it go for years, thinking I was just seeing an off sample size, but I’m convinced after data I see every single day that women want betas.

I rarely see a man these days in Los Angeles that’s an alpha male with a woman. Hell, I barely even see them. It seems these days women want a beta that worships them and is happy to be second priority. The only women I see that are turned on by an alpha male are the older women who are past the wall. I’m finally approaching a point of AFC because I’m a secure successful man out there conquering the world and my success with women is losing statistically to the standard beta chump that’s drooling over his attractive female companion. Do I have to move out of this place and move somewhere that is still in the old world? Or should I just play shotgun to these Insta-obsessed women that want to be the ones in control of the sexual dynamic?

[brazilian]

For a beta is way more rewarding to stay in a LTR with a girl who once was out of his league, so the guys put the effort to treat them like queens, always providing support, attention, money, gifts and a beta often avoid a break up at all costs so they endure the bitchness, ups and downs, cheats...

When a woman meets an alpha male (a real one, not wannabes) she thinks " bet he is drowning in an ocean of pussies, im just another one, I wont get the ROYAL treatment I think I deserve here " and then she bang the guy and never look back.

But in my whole life I've never saw a guy who I'd label as an alpha male complaining about lack of pussy or even considering betas in their talk.

[flyinghorse]

If you're good looking and successful and you still cant get a decent woman then something Is off somewhere.

[jselysianeagle]

The Dunning-Kruger effect is strong with this one.

[yang2287]

Are you looking for pussy or you looking for an LTR? they are not same.

In my expireience it's very difficult in a relationship with a modern feminist woman to hold Alpha frame in an LTR.

You basically have to accept to be a beta to keep the peace. i.e like someone posted Restaurants, cinema, paying for vacations, taking insults nagging, cheating, keeping in touch with exes, girls night out, having the man doing the cooking and cleaning etc. the Modern feminist woman expect their LTR to be like this, basically a foot mat they can walk over as they like.
In a hypocritical way she wants to stay with the beta for power and protection while they still long to bang the alpha since she detests what a beta the guy has become even though she wanted this.

For banging it's a totally different story, of course she will bang the alpha she is attracted to.

Again are you looking for an LTR with a modern feminist woman? Why would you wanna do that

This shit comes from the concept they call equality of sexes. It's also reinforced by propaganda written on magazines like causette and relationship pages on the internet. Basically in an LTR with a modern feminist you are at war and she is here to win and based on advice she gets in a magazine or on the internet or worse still from her girl friends.

I've had an ex tell me she was always sad when she had to cook for me while we were dating. I was shocked, remember this is a French girl who I cook better than her, but she always insisted we cut the onions together, I'm like wtf, you do the cooking, you cut the onions. When I wanna cook I do everything. For her cooking while I watch TV made her feel like a housewife which feminist abhor, can you believe this shit.

Same last week, a French plate told me last week she didn't like the idea she was cooking for me while I was on the couch.

The beta will happily share these tasks just to keep peace and keep getting laid. Me I refused all this and I broke up with many girls because of this. I can cook and clean my place thank you very much.

what's the point of having a girl around all the time if she would not take over these tasks.

Then no point in an LTR with someone who refuses to cook, clean, wash dishes or insists we always go shopping together.

The current arrangement for all plates is she brings the pussy, we bang and she goes back to her place until next time I'm horny.

Now there is a simple metric to find an LTR does she enjoy cooking, cleaning, taking care of the home, cuts off all exes, doesn't cheat, worships you, doesn't go into a power struggle or start trying to convert you to a beta? If the answer is yes, you know what to do otherwise, keep as a plate and bang.

In conclusion a part of me says yes, to go in an LTR with a modern feminist woman, you have to go full beta, she will attempt to convert you, the choice is yours then to go full beta to "win" her
(And lose your soul) or to be yourself and gain the world

[jcrew247]

In LA it seems most of the men are skinny hipsters who are very metro. Maybe those girls are attracted to those type of beta men?

[TheFinalEpic]

(03-09-2019 04:20 AM)scheme00 Wrote:  

in Los Angeles

Well there's your fuckin' problem.

[Disco_Volante]

Most women need the security of a stable schmuck who adores them and provides. She gets to be the valueble one with all the leverage in the relationship.

Their base needs are kind of a separate from what theyre attracted to. Yes they want the top 10% but they also need that base security. The beta is blissfully unaware how little control he has.

If youve seen the movie "casino", Sharon stone's character is a good example of this. She fucks a deadbeat gangster on the side while married to a successful businessman.

[jcrew247]

I think there is also an over-estimation on the HB girls.
There's plenty of beta girls with low confidence that don't want to date alpha males or cheaters if they are sick of being cheated on and just want a monogamous LTR.
Betas men and beta women generally want LTR monogamy.

I think an alpha woman will eventually get sick of a beta man.
But there are plenty of HB 7 that have a beta mindset and want a beta man and are happy within their relationship. With makeup, most girls can look like a HB 7 but without makeup they are a 5, especially if she is over 30, then she has no power in the dating market.

[Graft]

Interesting post. The validity of it depends on what you consider an "alpha" and a "beta."

I've definitely noticed that the 1950's "alpha provider" type who wants his LTR to stay home and cook for him and give up everything else is dying an accelerated death in the West, especially in metropolitan areas.

You have to understand that a young, beautiful girl living in NYC or LA or any large city is basically living the dream. She's independent, making money, going out to brunch/bars with her friends, being chased by hundreds of different alphas. Getting her to give up her soap opera life to stay home and take care of you is near impossible unless you have astronomical value.

It's an incorrect assumption in manosphere type places that "alpha" guys all think like Roosh. Almost all men have adopted some form of modernity in their thinking and there's absolutely no shortage of men at the top of the sexual hierarchy who prefer a career oriented late 20's chick with sexual experience as opposed to a cute 19 year old who can cook but can't financially fend for herself.

There's also no reason why a woman would choose an aloof man who doesn't pay attention to her when she can get a good looking, successful, and popular guy who will make her his queen. Alphas will always have expectations, the problem for us is that most modern alphas will choose a woman based on how well traveled, financially successful, and sexually experienced a woman is.

I'll go over some problems that we have with women in metropolitan areas and my take on solving them:

1. Women are preferring to focus on their careers instead of their domestic duties.-Think for a second why you like a woman cooking for you or doing your laundry. Is it because you desperately need a meal or don't want to pay for laundry service? No. You just like seeing a woman who is not a selfish piece of shit and goes out of her way to do things for you. Instead of adopting a "cooking or breakup" mentality, take a little tally of things that she goes out of her way to do for you, whether its cooking or laundry or buying you something.

Guys also need to get it out of their heads that women are never going to have a career. For a young woman 17-22 entering/exiting college, this isn't an option to her by her parents, her friends, and society at large. Even if she's able to withstand all of these pressures, she's not going to want to feel completely powerless when she's living with a guy who provides for all of her needs.

It's really not that we don't want a woman to have a career. We just don't want her to lose that femininity and become second priority in her life. I need for my woman to have a career, because I want that 80-120k extra in order to live an upper middle class life. In my experience, it's fairly easy to tell which women have career as a middle priority in their life vs a "hustler" woman who is trying to get to the top at all costs.

If you want a wife instead of a career woman, you absolutely have to walk the walk by making a lot of money. A lot of guys skirt around the uncomfortable truth when talking about being a provider. Should a woman give up her career for a guy making 80k? Unless she is completely useless, absolutely not, you need to make at a bare minimum 250k for her (or me) to even consider it. Even if you make 250k and she makes 100k it's a tough sell. In my opinion, you need to make 350-500k in a major metropolitan to even be talking about a modern woman completely giving up a high five figure or six figure career.

2. Women want to live an exciting life filled with parties, friends, drinking, and clubbing instead of a more domestic home life

-Again, very difficult to combat the social media highlight reel that is often a modern urban woman's life. Why do we hate this lifestyle? It's not that we hate our women having fun, it's just that we don't want them in risky club type situations with their demonic bad influence friends.

I love commenting on this because I speculate that it's a major weakness for RVF guys. You aren't going to get a woman to completely get off the sex and the city train to watch movies and cook for you. The only solution is to create your own lifestyle that is superior and gives you control.

When a woman leads a party lifestyle that I don't like, I view it as competition. Instead of wailing on and on about social degeneracy in society (I have done plenty of this btw), I know that I have to provide a better highlight reel for her than her friends and current lifestyle. This is why I'm so focused on exotic travels, baller dinners/brunches, fun nights with friends. If I can show her that my social life is superior to her current social life, I can bring her into mine and get the same power and control that I would have if she sat at home and waited for me.

This is why guys have to focus on socializing and having fun experiences, even if it doesn't appeal to them. For the most part women are going to want to have fun and party, you just have to make sure it is with you and within your circle instead of their own.

3. Women don't want to give up their exes, friends, and other sexual options that they have on their phones

Another tough pill to swallow and it takes a significant amount of effort to combat this. This is why I hammer home building a dope social media profile and keeping all of your leads on here. I haven't gotten far enough with a girl to be concerned about her other sexual options, but I can guarantee you that plenty of women look at my social media profiles and are scared shit at the amount of girls that are blowing me up. You have to fight fire with fire in this scenario, the only way to gain leverage in this situation is if she knows that you have hundreds of options at your fingertips like her. If I were to catch a girl talking to an ex, I would simply casually hit up ten girls hotter than her on my social media profiles, subtly implying that "Hey, I can do this too."

It took me years of trial and error, lots of complaining on ROK to figure all of this stuff out. If you want to gain that power and control over a modern woman, you simply have to fight fire with fire by making lots of money, having an awesome social life and always having your options open on social media.

[Savonarola]

Something sounds off with OP.
However, in all fairness ... I lived, worked, dated, fucked, got engaged, got married, and got divorced in Los Angeles.
Dating women in that city is DIFFERENT, particularly on the West Side and in the Valley.
I never totally figured out how they made decisions. It's like they had two different internal processors running at all times.
Maybe more details from OP will help.

[RWIsrael]

Beta is about 80% of the male population, so it makes sense to me they would "win", since they are the backbone of a functioning society.

Beta doesn't automatically mean incel, or weak, effimate or unattractive, it just means not a leader, not ZFG alpha, not a highly ssuccessful player.

AFC, Beta, Blue-pill are all slightly different concepts.

They may not win the hottest girl most of the time or have access to tons of high quality poon, but that doesn't mean they don't get laid or find a girl. Sure they are more likely to lose the girl or get divorce-raped but it's not like super alpha players are the only ones capable of getting a girl.

As was stated earlier - it also depends on your definition of alpha or beta.
The "leader of men" alpha type may be terrible with women, while the "smooth talking player" type can get plenty of pussy but might not get any respect from his fellow men.

[Savonarola]

(03-09-2019 04:10 PM)RWIsrael Wrote:  

Beta is about 80% of the male population, so it makes sense to me they would "win", since they are the backbone of a functioning society.

I'd say
Omegas = 40%
Betas = 50%
Alphas < 10%

[Rhyme or Reason]

What's the actual basis for your assertion that "betas win the talent"?

What have you actually observed and seen for yourself to support that statement? I think you're probably taking some things for granted and likely filling in your own gaps.

Quote:

I’m a secure successful man out there conquering the world

What's with people who say stuff like this...?

[Donfitz007]

I get it many guys want to be betas when it comes to women because they find anecdotal evidence that support betas win but why would any man want to be beta in general?

It's easy to text a girl over and over and over again and blow up her phone because you HAVE TO TALK TO HER-it's hard to not give a fuck
Its easy to give a girl everything she wants and avoid problems-Its hard to Call her bluff and show your worth.
It's easy to give your all to a woman and go to the first girl that gives you a chance-it's hard to go without sex until you're good enough to get whoever you want
It's easy to bitch out and be a cuck just to keep your girl-Its hard to man up and know your worth and leave without notice.

TRUST ME IT'S EASY because i've been that type of guy. I hated every second of it. My whole life I've been friendzoned by the hottest girls waiting for a chance, and once I got that chance yes I felt great but she didn't value me.

Being alpha isn't about getting girls, it's about being so confident in yourself that EVERYBODY WANTS to be you, WANTS to follow you, WANTS to be with you, and respects you. Its not about chasing after admiration nor validation it's about living your life the way you want to live it without caring what others think. You think James bond or batman would say "man I wish I was Beta"? You think Teddy Roosevelt or Winston Churchill would say "Dang the beta guys are the best".

Here's the thing bro. Most guys aren't beta's nor alphas. Most guys are just simple guys. Most guys have both alpha and beta tendencies but VERY FEW ARE ALL the way on either side.

[flyinghorse]

Just saw this definition of Omega:

omega: you are the polar opposite of the alpha male, but in a good way. like the alpha male you are confident, intelligent and have a sense of charisma about you, but unlike the alpha male, you are completely your own person. you do not need anyone, and you can even be emotionally distant due to your complete self-possession. you trust few people and foster even fewer intimate relationships. omegas do not care for leadership by others as they are perfectly capable of leading themselves

That's relatable. I'd imagine more men are like this as a lot of us don't want to rule over other people, we just don't want anyone trying to rule over us (it seems like the personality version of libertarianism)

[RDF]

Graft basically nailed it.

I’ve learned a ton about the world in this part of the internet over the years and it has shaped my life in a positive way. However, the one thing that I will never understand is the constant discussion of the “alpha-beta” shit and applying that dynamic to every situation. Real life is far more complicated and rarely boils down to just alpha/beta.

I’ll just say this. If you are consistently struggling to meet and retain an attractive woman (or women), you aren’t an “alpha”. Sorry to break it to you. Conversely, if another guy is regularly meeting, fucking, and keeping attractive women long-term, then he isn’t a “beta”, even if he wears skinny jeans and looks like a piece of soy. Finally, I don’t think real alphas refer to themselves as “alpha” on the internet or imply that they are.

It’s very important to discuss male-female dynamics, how they’ve changed, and how we can adapt to that (or not), but trying to frame it as “betas win” is ridiculous.

[Repo]

(03-09-2019 04:42 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

What's the actual basis for your assertion that "betas win the talent"?

What have you actually observed and seen for yourself to support that statement? I think you're probably taking some things for granted and likely filling in your own gaps.

Quote:

I’m a secure successful man out there conquering the world

What's with people who say stuff like this...?

I imagine it usually means going to a spanish speaking country and being able to ask in spanish "where is the bathroom", or something along those lines

[Savonarola]

(03-09-2019 10:09 PM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

Just saw this definition of Omega:

omega: you are the polar opposite of the alpha male, but in a good way. like the alpha male you are confident, intelligent and have a sense of charisma about you, but unlike the alpha male, you are completely your own person. you do not need anyone, and you can even be emotionally distant due to your complete self-possession. you trust few people and foster even fewer intimate relationships. omegas do not care for leadership by others as they are perfectly capable of leading themselves

That's relatable. I'd imagine more men are like this as a lot of us don't want to rule over other people, we just don't want anyone trying to rule over us (it seems like the personality version of libertarianism)

That makes absolutely no sense.

[Donfitz007]

(03-09-2019 10:09 PM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

Just saw this definition of Omega:

omega: you are the polar opposite of the alpha male, but in a good way. like the alpha male you are confident, intelligent and have a sense of charisma about you, but unlike the alpha male, you are completely your own person. you do not need anyone, and you can even be emotionally distant due to your complete self-possession. you trust few people and foster even fewer intimate relationships. omegas do not care for leadership by others as they are perfectly capable of leading themselves

That's relatable. I'd imagine more men are like this as a lot of us don't want to rule over other people, we just don't want anyone trying to rule over us (it seems like the personality version of libertarianism)

That's a sigma male from my understanding....All these different types don't matter. I believe an alpha is somebody who COULD be a leader, has all the traits of a good leader and has the choice wheter or not to be one. A person confident within themselves.

Gaft, however, makes a great point. Feminism won and the modern alpha has changed.

[jselysianeagle]

(03-09-2019 07:47 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  

Most guys aren't beta's nor alphas. Most guys are just simple guys. Most guys have both alpha and beta tendencies but VERY FEW ARE ALL the way on either side.

Preach!

[flyinghorse]

Omega/sigma men are purported as better leaders than alpha men as they are more interested in getting the job done then they are about being 'in power'.

[JakckieDanger437]

(03-09-2019 04:20 AM)scheme00 Wrote:  

Hey dudes, please chime in on the following. I’m 38, well-traveled and living in Los Angeles. About an 8 at chasing tail and pretty good looking on the looks scale. Run my own buisiness and been single about five years now for the most part with a few micro relationships here and there.

This is what I’ve noticed: Betas win the talent. I’ve been putting in work for over 12 years now, consistently gaming and have been a member of the conservative red-pill for the past 3 years or so, so I’m pretty aware of the alpha/beta dynamic. What I’ve seen over and over is that women want betas these days. The average woman that I am sexually attracted to and interested in ends up dating AND sleeping with the chumpy beta. Guys that blow up their phone consistently and who worship them consistently. I let it go for years, thinking I was just seeing an off sample size, but I’m convinced after data I see every single day that women want betas.

I rarely see a man these days in Los Angeles that’s an alpha male with a woman. Hell, I barely even see them. It seems these days women want a beta that worships them and is happy to be second priority. The only women I see that are turned on by an alpha male are the older women who are past the wall. I’m finally approaching a point of AFC because I’m a secure successful man out there conquering the world and my success with women is losing statistically to the standard beta chump that’s drooling over his attractive female companion. Do I have to move out of this place and move somewhere that is still in the old world? Or should I just play shotgun to these Insta-obsessed women that want to be the ones in control of the sexual dynamic?

I don't think it's that they "want betas" but they just end up with betas in a LTR because they're easier to control.

Also keep in mind that social conditioning might have something to do with this.

[JoeSomebody]

@ Graft, you absolutely nailed it. Gave you a rep point.

On a personal level, I do pretty well for myself considering I have zero social media, don't care for most people (men and women), and have an old-school outdated way of thinking (especially for being in the NYC area). Problem is, I largely refuse to take part in clown world. I take part in it as little as possible and it no doubt hurts me when it comes to pulling the hottest of the hot on a CONSISTENT basis. The modern woman doesn't want equality, she wants SUPERIORITY. They want to be the director, lead actor, and supporting actor of their movie, which they call their life. They'll let you in into their life if they deem you "worthy". Why are they going to want someone who thinks like Roosh, when they can basically have someone who validates everything they do, their very existence, who, oh by the way, makes 6 to 7 figures, is popular, and good looking to boot and has shit tons of social proof? Exactly. They aren't. I find tattoos on women disgusting, they automatically fall into a pump and dump category, but guess what? Most guys out there don't give a shit. For every one of me, theres 40 to 50 guys who could care less. Slept with 60 guys? You won't be my wife. But guess what? Most men don't care. I can go on and on for hours, but just read Grafts original post, he fuckin nails it....

[Incubus]

I think the OP should learn to adapt because the LA beta disease (all big cities) has spread to the country side (anywhere there is a smartphone)

Face it women are unaccountable to society (western) Women get a free pass into jobs/promotions and accepted into schools (post secondary is mostly women getting useless degrees)

Why would any woman want to be accountable to a alpha?
When she can continue to be unaccountable ...with a beta male a male that she puts on the same level as her lapadoodle.
The insulting part for Alpha males is that woman would rather have empty sex with a beta male than risk "having feelings or an emotional experience" with a good catch. That's the hard part too swallow "shunned" shutout ..overlooked...avoided

Every woman today thinks there is something ugly about themselves (even the 10's) women's self esteem is in the toilet. Most women I find need to be told over and over you like them or love them. They need constant reassurance

Yes that tattoo'd chick that has fucked boys/girls in her short past and doesn't want to grow up and likes being unaccountable (in control of her life?) will definitely not go to alpha males. Best pick a lap dog and get her face licked every 2 minutes (did I also mention millions of narcissistic women out there now)

I adapted "out of the country" and it has worked out very well.