[Design Engineer]

Hey guys,

Flake = date was agreed upon, but then cancelled. Next date is pending or rescheduled or no go.

Drop-off = talking to a girl for a awhile but no reply back (sometimes this is probably my fault because I don't text these bitches back in a timely window--busy life)


I'm in Charlotte, NC. Not sure what the hell is going on, but I'm dealing with a high flake/drop-off rate, among ~15 girls I've talked too, 2-3 are serious date potentials, the rest are iffy. Of the 2-3, one girl I really want to bang so I guess quality over quantity. Most of the communication is over text.

My goal is try and seal the deal with more girls to go on dates. My opinion of myself is I'm a smooth talker, good openers, know how to progress the conversation, demonstrate some value, my closing is ok.


Any advice you guys have is much appreciated. I'll provide more info as needed.

[LINUX]

Confidence, Masculinity and Physique is what matters in 2019.

Smooth talking, openings, kino, negs, the "your so pretty" comments don't.

We live in a ADHD generation controlled by smart phones, likes, tinder, and instagram, stop making dates more than 12 hours in advance or she'll find something more interesting to do than going out with her 1,000th dude. And if you do make a date, do something worth her "attention span".

[Design Engineer]

(01-28-2019 11:00 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Confidence, Masculinity and Physique is what matters in 2019.

Smooth talking, openings, kino, negs, the "your so pretty" comments don't.

We live in a ADHD generation controlled by smart phones, likes, tinder, and instagram, stop making dates more than 12 hours in advance or she'll find something more interesting to do than going out with her 1,000th dude. And if you do make a date, do something worth her "attention span".

Quote:

We live in a ADHD generation controlled by smart phones, likes, tinder, and instagram, stop making dates more than 12 hours in advance or she'll find something more interesting to do than going out with her 1,000th dude.

I think thats a good point. I try to make most dates 1-2 days prior, other dates I've done 3-5 days and yeah those 3-5 days prior have higher flake-rate.

[The Beast1]

Everything Linux said is correct.

Unfortunately, in my experience the flake rate is directly inverse to the value you brought to the table. In this case it's what Linux said.

Do more to maximize it and the ratio will decrease.

[Design Engineer]

(01-28-2019 11:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Everything Linux said is correct.

Unfortunately, in my experience the flake rate is directly inverse to the value you brought to the table. In this case it's what Linux said.

Do more to maximize it and the ratio will decrease.

Do you think perceived value is the only factor at play?

Could it be other factors such as external situations, lack of my own responses, maybe some girls just are seeking attention and were never really interested in dating. Perhaps a combination.

Here's the thing, my value relative to majority of these girls I would say is far higher socioeconomically. There are some lower grade girls I could get much easier, but not worth the ROI. One girl even texted me "oh so you're a big money maker ;-)", that was acknowledgement of my value to some degree. Ironically enough that is one of the girls I have a potential date with tomorrow...

[Azlan]

When did we get to the point where everything we do is about trying to prove we deserve her?

" do something worth her attention span" seriously?
Everything we do now has to be about catering to her?
Men have forgotten that women need us far more than we actually need them.

The value we bring to the table is simply that we're men. We are bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, we discover, invent, conquer, explore, think and do. Women do nothing and are capable of nothing. No matter how hot a chick is her "value" will never match that of a mans. They were created to cherish us and be used by us...not the other way around.

[JackinMelbourne]

(01-29-2019 01:13 AM)Azlan Wrote:  

Men have forgotten that women need us far more than we actually need them.

The value we bring to the table is simply that we're men. We are bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, we discover, invent, conquer, explore, think and do. Women do nothing and are capable of nothing. No matter how hot a chick is her "value" will never match that of a mans. They were created to cherish us and be used by us...not the other way around.

LOL.

This is femenist hamster type self-talk (and no action).

Just like "you're the prize" etc.

My wannabe femenist younger girlfriend used to tell me that's what the older femenist cat women told her to believe, and this was several years ago... and now "men" are saying this same shit. WTF?

NOBODY "needs" anybody.

But when you offer value to each other, good things happen.

If you set up a date, make it good for yourself and good for her. Also, you have LOTS of competition... so at least have the basics of being a man covered: Confidence and physique are BASICS. Value is a strong third and value is entirely dependent on what is needed for each interaction, each situation and each girl. Find out what that is and use it to exchange for what you want.

[RatInTheWoods]

(01-29-2019 01:13 AM)Azlan Wrote:  

They were created to cherish us and be used by us...not the other way around.

Great speech, except she has the pussy.

That fold of skin has driven men crazy since the dawn of time.

Kings have been deposed over it, fortunes lost, wars fought and many a good man ruined.

The thirst is real my friend.

[jselysianeagle]

(01-29-2019 01:13 AM)Azlan Wrote:  

No matter how hot a chick is her "value" will never match that of a mans.

The hamster is strong with this one, I see.

Listen bud, what JackInMelbourne said is 100% true - nobody needs anybody. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you can get to work building up yourself into a better, more attractive prospect.

[Hypno]

(01-28-2019 11:30 PM)Design Engineer Wrote:  

Here's the thing, my value relative to majority of these girls I would say is far higher socioeconomically.

Its not your value relative to the girls, its your value relative to her other options.

What Charlotte has a bunch of rich dudes in banking, etc. Also, you don't really have an abundance mindframe. You have to fake it until you make it.

What it doesn't have an abundance of are the qualities LINUX lists.

Try to demonstrate your masculinity in your texts. I sometimes say something like "If you are late, don't be surprised if I bend you over my knee and give you some spankings." You have to have the right context to pull that off. But it vaults you up on the masculinity scale. All the other guys are probably still pedastalizing her. She'll sense that you are different if you communicate with her differently.

[Design Engineer]

Update:

Guys I ended up dating the sexy cougar MILF I wanted the most. Happy with what I saw and cannot wait to bang her. Please give me some feedback and advice.

Date set over text. We meet up at a place and time of my choosing but convenient to both. She talked a lot, expressed interests in getting to know me and my background and it was mutual. The date lasted about 2 hours. Took her to a good place for dinner and drinks. I texted her can't wait to see the sexy dress.

Beginning of the date: Started off with a smile, hug, easy going conversation.

During the Date:

1) She commented that now her daughter is grown up she wants to travel and experience more things, I told her about my coming trip to Vegas and she took interest in my other trips and inquired.

2) I think I demonstrated a lot of high value, far more than any other options she probably has. She had said to me earlier "oh so you're a big money maker ;-)" and she complimented my car (end of date).

3) I did notice she had Tinder on her phone, she was showing me selfies she took of her hair. The fact that she has Tinder, but still made time to come date me--I thought was a positive indicator of my standing compared to other dudes.

4) I got her so comfortable she started sharing personal information about her job, career, daughter, family, etc.

5) She did 65% of the talking during the date, not a dull moment, made her laugh, and again I focused on making the connection strong and get her comfortable around me. Ice melted fast.

Towards the end of the date:She mentioned she was about 12 years older than me, but she said she cares more about the personality and maturity not age...She said I guess it's "in" that younger guys want to date older women.

We stood outside by her and mine car, I grabbed her by the shoulder pulled her close to me, rubbed her back as we talked outside, winding down the date. I did NOT grab her ass, although I badly wanted too-- I was thinking it could come off as unclassy and low value to do so outside a restaurant. She invited me to sit in her car and talk more.

After little more than 2 hours, I ENDED the date sending her off with a hug.



So with that said, please share any insights you guys have for me. One question I have is, how long should I wait to text her, or should I wait for her to text me? I am not 100% certain but it did not sound she'd be interested in more dates.

I hope after this date, she views me as a top high value sexual partner.

[Design Engineer]

I forgot to mention. Not sure how but the topic of my bed came up. Told her I had a large comfy bed, she asked about the thread count lol

[Delta]

I've experienced much of the same, despite having almost all of the girls beaten by a mile in terms of both physique and socioeconomic status. I'm convinced that these women who are still single into their late 20's and beyond are, for the most part, fundamentally broken and incapable of appreciating a man, even one who would easily be considered "dating up" by any objective measure. Their conscious mind is telling them you're a good option, but their unconscious/emotional side can't bring itself to give a shit about you or anyone really.

What I've noticed is that the ones who flake are always the ones who weren't all that enthusiastic to begin with, which describes the overwhelming majority of those you'll come across. Stop using dating as a way to fill up your evenings, get involved with shit you actually enjoy, lose the "as long as she's responding it's GAME ON BRAH" mentality, and only focus on the ~5% of female prospects who actually show genuine interest in you. That is the only way to avoid serial flaking.

[818]

(01-29-2019 01:13 AM)Azlan Wrote:  

When did we get to the point where everything we do is about trying to prove we deserve her?

" do something worth her attention span" seriously?
Everything we do now has to be about catering to her?
Men have forgotten that women need us far more than we actually need them.

The value we bring to the table is simply that we're men. We are bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, we discover, invent, conquer, explore, think and do. Women do nothing and are capable of nothing. No matter how hot a chick is her "value" will never match that of a mans. They were created to cherish us and be used by us...not the other way around.

^ This!

I agree with you %110. Funny I came across this post right now too because earlier today while driving back from a flake, I was thinking the exact same thing. And in the conversation I had with my analytical self, I realized the reason this happens is quite simple...

Supply and demand. 

Just like oil prices, when oil producing countries flood the market with oil, prices go down. They go down because the value of oil becomes less. They reduce production=prices increase=oil more valuable.

You see... The market is flooded with dick. Dick has no value. It's easily attained. A women does not have to put much effort to get dick. Hell, if she's above 5, no effort is required. All she needs is a pulse.

Unless you change this dynamics and make dick harder to get, flakes are here to stay.

[Design Engineer]

The flake rate continues to be bad, I have had over a dozen numbers but girls flaking out or making excuses "Can you pay for my uber?" "family situation", and other excuses or they go silent.

Talking to some other girls now (one is banging hot) I'll see what pans out. I think going out is too much effort for some women. One woman I met but she lives out of town I think she is in the bag, has openly told me she wants sex, problem is she lives 4 hours away so I would need to take a special trip to go visit her.

Suppose to have a date tonight with a MILF we'll see what happens.

[Design Engineer]

(01-30-2019 03:23 AM)818 Wrote:  

(01-29-2019 01:13 AM)Azlan Wrote:  

When did we get to the point where everything we do is about trying to prove we deserve her?

" do something worth her attention span" seriously?
Everything we do now has to be about catering to her?
Men have forgotten that women need us far more than we actually need them.

The value we bring to the table is simply that we're men. We are bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, we discover, invent, conquer, explore, think and do. Women do nothing and are capable of nothing. No matter how hot a chick is her "value" will never match that of a mans. They were created to cherish us and be used by us...not the other way around.

^ This!

I agree with you %110. Funny I came across this post right now too because earlier today while driving back from a flake, I was thinking the exact same thing. And in the conversation I had with my analytical self, I realized the reason this happens is quite simple...

Supply and demand. 

Just like oil prices, when oil producing countries flood the market with oil, prices go down. They go down because the value of oil becomes less. They reduce production=prices increase=oil more valuable.

You see... The market is flooded with dick. Dick has no value. It's easily attained. A women does not have to put much effort to get dick. Hell, if she's above 5, no effort is required. All she needs is a pulse.

Unless you change this dynamics and make dick harder to get, flakes are here to stay.

I've been thinking one thing that really attracts a woman is if she feels the guy can provide her with new experiences in life or teach them something new. I've been using that kind of game on some women, but it takes time to apply that game. I gradually reveal high status things about me which lure them further and further in.

But you'll always be up against the short attention span of many women.

[Graft]

I've definitely noticed that women grossly overestimate their options in the dating market.

When I look at what I bring to the table, in terms of income/looks/lifestyle/fitness/dress/etc there are only a sliver of guys who are in my situation.

I get ghosted/faded out regularly by five figure girls/students living in working class areas.

Their perception of having multitudes of guys like me as options is different than the reality. The statistics just don't back it up. It takes about 172k income to be in the top 1% of earners my age. Once you factor in not looking like an ugly chode, having some balls/game, and a dope lifestyle backing it up, statistically I am a lottery ticket for the majority of women who don't have six figure financial future.

Likewise, if I'm talking to 10 girls who are hot and low notch count, I know that I'd be lucky to grab one of them and make it work. There simply aren't enough of them for me to have full abundance.

It's the same thing with these women. They may be talking to ten guys like me-but it's like a game of musical chairs. Eventually guys are going to be taken off the market by themselves or other women. Most women in the 6-8 range are just not realistic with the type of guy they will eventually end up with.

[Elmore]

(04-16-2019 10:02 PM)Graft Wrote:  

It's the same thing with these women. They may be talking to ten guys like me-but it's like a game of musical chairs. Eventually guys are going to be taken off the market by themselves or other women. Most women in the 6-8 range are just not realistic with the type of guy they will eventually end up with.

Yep. Modern western woman is addicted to novelty and validation. That rush of novelty they get when they meet a new man (or swipe, more to the point) fills them full of 'what ifs' along with the duplicitously planned dopamine rush that the platform will have designed into their app. While they still possess some form of sexual value, this supply will seem never-ending. Why not just get hooked on it. The rug gets pulled into their mid to late thirties, but by then it's getting near dark, and all that awaits is angry feminism and cats to fill the hole that all that attention and validation once did.

[griffinmill]

I posted this in the Travel section but I think it's worth mentioning here too. I dated around 3 girls the last time I was in Warsaw. Two from Tinder, one from daygame. One of these girls I even went on a mini-break to Munich with, and all of them let me stay for a few days in their apartments when I needed a place to crash; trusting me in their place when they went to work.

I went away for about 2 months. I tried to maintain communication with them but I felt like it was always me initiating. When I returned last week they all expressed interest but ghosted or gave non-committal answers when the meet was suggested.

To reiterate, these were girls I ate with, travelled with, stayed with, and foolishly rawdogged - and precisely none had any inclination to see me again when I returned.

The flake / drop-out rate is real.

[Tinder Scientist]

(04-17-2019 09:03 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

I posted this in the Travel section but I think it's worth mentioning here too. I dated around 3 girls the last time I was in Warsaw. Two from Tinder, one from daygame. One of these girls I even went on a mini-break to Munich with, and all of them let me stay for a few days in their apartments when I needed a place to crash; trusting me in their place when they went to work.

I went away for about 2 months. I tried to maintain communication with them but I felt like it was always me initiating. When I returned last week they all expressed interest but ghosted or gave non-committal answers when the meet was suggested.

To reiterate, these were girls I ate with, traveled with, stayed with, and foolishly rawdogged - and precisely none had any inclination to see me again when I returned.

The flake / drop-out rate is real.

I don't mean this in a bad way, but how well did you satisfy them sexually?
I find it really weird they all flaked on you.

Usually if you already had sex regularly with a girl then she might stop seeing you because she drops the "what are we?" talk or if she knows it isn't serious she moves on to someone else or talks to her ex bf or whatever.

But if it was clear that it was a no strings attached deal the only things I can think about is you either became too boring/clingy for them or the sex was not good enough.

Maybe it was bad luck, since women are extremely flakey. But in my experience they are less flakey after you already fucked them, since they know you already got what you wanted. In fact, the whole chasing dynamic should go in reverse after you have sex.

[Design Engineer]

Update on post #15

The MILF and I actually dated last Saturday night, good conversation over drinks, went for a walk had my arm around her (the first few touches I like to think of as warming her up), then as we were walking I asked if she was hungry. I then decided to get Chinese food, we walked over to the Chinese takeout place grabbed food, but now we need a place to eat the food. So at first I suggested we find a place outside to eat, when that wasn't a possibility I then slyly said "We can just go eat this at my place, I'm like 5 mins away" she replied positively like 'yeah I'm down for that"... Long story short whole date time lasted 4 hours took her back to my place had dinner and pussy.

Since that night neither of us have texted each other LOL

At the end of the date I said "On a scale of 1-5 how good was it?" ... "I'm taking surveys"

The funny part is, there were dudes messaging her on her dating app while I was dating her and pounding her LOL those dudes have no idea.

[Design Engineer]

(04-16-2019 10:02 PM)Graft Wrote:  

I've definitely noticed that women grossly overestimate their options in the dating market.

When I look at what I bring to the table, in terms of income/looks/lifestyle/fitness/dress/etc there are only a sliver of guys who are in my situation.

I get ghosted/faded out regularly by five figure girls/students living in working class areas.

Their perception of having multitudes of guys like me as options is different than the reality. The statistics just don't back it up. It takes about 172k income to be in the top 1% of earners my age. Once you factor in not looking like an ugly chode, having some balls/game, and a dope lifestyle backing it up, statistically I am a lottery ticket for the majority of women who don't have six figure financial future.

Likewise, if I'm talking to 10 girls who are hot and low notch count, I know that I'd be lucky to grab one of them and make it work. There simply aren't enough of them for me to have full abundance.

It's the same thing with these women. They may be talking to ten guys like me-but it's like a game of musical chairs. Eventually guys are going to be taken off the market by themselves or other women. Most women in the 6-8 range are just not realistic with the type of guy they will eventually end up with.

I feel you man. One of guys posted earlier it's not our value relative to the woman's value but to the value of other men she can potentially have. Thus the current sexual marketplace is very lopsided and screws over successful young men, although our chances are still better than the average guy.

I've been exploring one idea is that, in order to attract more beautiful women, gradually make friends with girls who are 6s, 7s, and 8s. I think as guys we always try to go for the dates and bangs but we forget the networking aspect of getting girls; and that is to get hot girls it helps being friends with a lot of girls. In theory, those girls should open up more opportunities for you to meet attractive women.

Now this obviously requires good inter-personal skills and those girls will have to value you enough to introduce you to their friends.

[Repo]

(04-20-2019 10:41 AM)Design Engineer Wrote:  

Update on post #15

The MILF and I actually dated last Saturday night, good conversation over drinks, went for a walk had my arm around her (the first few touches I like to think of as warming her up), then as we were walking I asked if she was hungry. I then decided to get Chinese food, we walked over to the Chinese takeout place grabbed food, but now we need a place to eat the food. So at first I suggested we find a place outside to eat, when that wasn't a possibility I then slyly said "We can just go eat this at my place, I'm like 5 mins away" she replied positively like 'yeah I'm down for that"... Long story short whole date time lasted 4 hours took her back to my place had dinner and pussy.

Since that night neither of us have texted each other LOL

At the end of the date I said "On a scale of 1-5 how good was it?" ... "I'm taking surveys"

The funny part is, there were dudes messaging her on her dating app while I was dating her and pounding her LOL those dudes have no idea.

Yes those dudes do have an idea. It seems you dont though, because I can guarantee when you "hug closed" her she banged another guy within 24 hours of that. While it's good you finally banged her, its troubling that it took you this long to bang a girl who has Tinder on her phone. The fact that she invited you to her car and you ended with a hug tells me your not escalating enough. All backseat car bangs start with an invitation to the car.

Also, 12 years older than you, come on what are you doing with your life

[Design Engineer]

(04-20-2019 01:38 PM)Repo Wrote:  

(04-20-2019 10:41 AM)Design Engineer Wrote:  

Update on post #15

The MILF and I actually dated last Saturday night, good conversation over drinks, went for a walk had my arm around her (the first few touches I like to think of as warming her up), then as we were walking I asked if she was hungry. I then decided to get Chinese food, we walked over to the Chinese takeout place grabbed food, but now we need a place to eat the food. So at first I suggested we find a place outside to eat, when that wasn't a possibility I then slyly said "We can just go eat this at my place, I'm like 5 mins away" she replied positively like 'yeah I'm down for that"... Long story short whole date time lasted 4 hours took her back to my place had dinner and pussy.

Since that night neither of us have texted each other LOL

At the end of the date I said "On a scale of 1-5 how good was it?" ... "I'm taking surveys"

The funny part is, there were dudes messaging her on her dating app while I was dating her and pounding her LOL those dudes have no idea.

Yes those dudes do have an idea. It seems you dont though, because I can guarantee when you "hug closed" her she banged another guy within 24 hours of that. While it's good you finally banged her, its troubling that it took you this long to bang a girl who has Tinder on her phone. The fact that she invited you to her car and you ended with a hug tells me your not escalating enough. All backseat car bangs start with an invitation to the car.

Also, 12 years older than you, come on what are you doing with your life

I think you're confused. In post #15 I'm referring to a different lady altogether. The most recent MILF I banged was in a 4 hour date, and she does not have Tinder AFAIK but other dating app.

[Repo]

Ah got it. Well I think the point still stands about the hug close, but it sounds like your making improvements.