[wonderman]

I recently had a strange encounter with a girl who's originally from a baltic state.

I met her from tinder, she had huge tits and her body was still quite ok.

At the first date (drinks) she told me she can't accept when guys don't pay, she said it's very unattractive to her (and meant it that way). So I paid. At the end we kissed, she got horny but all of a sudden she said "it's too much too fast for her".

Second date. Went to a thermal bath together. But when we met, she said she was hungry so we visited a restaurant. She didn't take out her wallet so I paid. When we visited the thermal bath, she again didn't want to pay so I paid. I just wanted to see those tits. There was some action in the pool but no sex.

Third date. She came to my place, I thought "yeah, finally I get what I paid for". I undressed her, had her in my bed, her huge tits in my face. Damn I was horny. But then, all of a sudden, she said she's not interested anymore, and she turned away. She put her clothes on and was surprised that I didn't want her to stay.

I was quite disappointed. Invested about 100 dollars in her, several hours, didn't really like her character (and was very surprised she wanted to see me a second/third time) but hoped I could bang her. But no bang.

Asked her whether she already had such issues with other men. She said yes.

Back to your orginal question "who pays": Earlier, in my 20s, I always split the bill. Now, since I'm in my 30s, I usually pay for the drinks. Whenever girls pay, chances to bang are higher.

[BaatumMania]

Yeah they really like sticking to that 3 date rule in Eastern Europe. Thing is most of us are stuck with the 90 day tourism visa and if she's only available on weekends or biweekly then that's like 1/3 of the tourism visa already used up on a chick...

[LatinaLova]

(01-11-2019 12:49 AM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 01:01 PM)LatinaLova Wrote:  

You suggest the place to meet (near your place), girl comes. So you pay. It's common courtesy.

Usually a girl who let's you pay means she's interested. If she pays for hers, it's usually a bad sign.

Disagree. More often that not when I pay for everything, I don't get the notch.

Lemme guess, you either do several drinks or dinner?

I only do 1 drink at some bar or coffee shop, 2 at most. Anything more than that comes off as provider.

[Shimmy]

(01-11-2019 12:45 AM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

I'm legitimately surprised at the responses to this thread, given the RVF group-think I've noticed here since 2017.

Over 2018 I went on roughly 20-25 dates, with 8 ending in the bang. In 6/8 of them the girl contributed to the date. The two who didn't, one was from SA and the other I got one round before bouncing back to my temporary logistics with a $20 bottle of wine and smoked her up.

Mind you, it's not like when the check comes I go "so let's go dutch." On one of the dates the girl offered to split it, I got the notch that night. On four others the girl got a round of the drinks - got the notch that night each time.

However maybe I'm biased - I'm coming from a "blue-pill" place where one of my biggest issues was spending too much money on women, so for me, getting the notch for as little money as possible is part of my frame-development goals. Also I'm in NYC and work for an investment fund, so I probably am already coming from a place of demonstrating high value. (not saying that to brag, just an observation).

banging less than 1/3 of women on first dates is a very low # for a city like NYC. I'm sure not paying has at least something to do with it, and if women are often offering to pay you're doing something wrong in the first place. Especially if you're using SA sometimes, if you come across as the kind of guy that girls don't expect to pay you are giving the wrong impression to have success on SA. Also sometimes girls will offer to pay because they don't want to feel obligated to bang you.

If it's worth it to not get as many notches and save some $ then I wouldn't recommend changing anything. But if it isn't you are really overthinking things.

[Hypno]

If you are going on dates where the cost is of consequence then you are spending too much.

Drinks or drinks and an app and then bounce.

On rare occasions I'll do a dinner but I avoid it not because of the cost but because it's less effective and take s more time. I've gotten the bang but you sort of cock block your self.

Being older with poor logistics my challenge is getting the date. Once I get the date I convert a very high percentage, more than half in less than an hour

[EwartGrogan]

(01-08-2019 10:58 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  

No matter how handsome, inshape, game proficient and wealthy you are it’s perfectly reasonable for a woman to expect you to pay for the first date. You will not be fucking any women with high SMVs doing this Dutch shit. Quite frankly, going Dutch is a waste of your time. Stick to drinks and no food till you get the pussy, exception being appetizers

Wrong. I've been dating a catwalk model who I made deliberately to pay for herself on the first date. She told me later that she was so confused about it that she didn't know what to say as she and her friends are used to have luxurious dinners and private VIP lounges covered fully for them. Apparently it was refreshing for her to see someone doing a reality check from her little princes fairy tale.

[MaceTyrell]

(01-11-2019 10:52 AM)LatinaLova Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:49 AM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 01:01 PM)LatinaLova Wrote:  

You suggest the place to meet (near your place), girl comes. So you pay. It's common courtesy.

Usually a girl who let's you pay means she's interested. If she pays for hers, it's usually a bad sign.

Disagree. More often that not when I pay for everything, I don't get the notch.

Lemme guess, you either do several drinks or dinner?

I only do 1 drink at some bar or coffee shop, 2 at most. Anything more than that comes off as provider.

By "several," two drinks per person. 1 of these roughly 25 dates involved dinner of sorts, and she paid for it (this was after me getting both drinks at the place we were at beforehand and a $20 bottle of wine to accompany the dinner - it was a BYOB place).

[MaceTyrell]

(01-11-2019 03:16 PM)Shimmy Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:45 AM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

I'm legitimately surprised at the responses to this thread, given the RVF group-think I've noticed here since 2017.

Over 2018 I went on roughly 20-25 dates, with 8 ending in the bang. In 6/8 of them the girl contributed to the date. The two who didn't, one was from SA and the other I got one round before bouncing back to my temporary logistics with a $20 bottle of wine and smoked her up.

Mind you, it's not like when the check comes I go "so let's go dutch." On one of the dates the girl offered to split it, I got the notch that night. On four others the girl got a round of the drinks - got the notch that night each time.

However maybe I'm biased - I'm coming from a "blue-pill" place where one of my biggest issues was spending too much money on women, so for me, getting the notch for as little money as possible is part of my frame-development goals. Also I'm in NYC and work for an investment fund, so I probably am already coming from a place of demonstrating high value. (not saying that to brag, just an observation).

banging less than 1/3 of women on first dates is a very low # for a city like NYC. I'm sure not paying has at least something to do with it, and if women are often offering to pay you're doing something wrong in the first place. Especially if you're using SA sometimes, if you come across as the kind of guy that girls don't expect to pay you are giving the wrong impression to have success on SA. Also sometimes girls will offer to pay because they don't want to feel obligated to bang you.

If it's worth it to not get as many notches and save some $ then I wouldn't recommend changing anything. But if it isn't you are really overthinking things.

So many things. Firstly, I never said I was letting girls off Seeking pay for themselves. They I always pay for everything. It's with the girls off Tinder here in NYC, the ones who champion being a "strong independent woman who needs no man." The last date I had that I paid for anything, and went nowhere, the woman flat out admitted to using Tinder because "thirst trapping is fun."

Again, by "going dutch," I am not actually telling them to pay half when the check comes. There are just clever ways to go about it. I've still fucked girls who insist on paying half, and then they try and put me in the LTR category.

[whiteknightrises]

If you have to worry about picking up a check

You have bigger problems than trying to fuck bitches

(And good luck splitting the bill with a girl who is actually hot)

[dream100]

(01-08-2019 10:29 AM)818 Wrote:  

I remember I used to religiously go Dutch. But now for some reason I'm noticing that I reach for my wallet more. Perhaps I feel that it's appropriate for me to pay if I'm the one who suggested we get something to eat/drink. But then, girls rarely suggest it so that means I would be always paying. I don't go on dates but rather a quick bite to eat or drink. Well, it "could" be looked at as a date but I don't set that vibe.

Anyway, who pays? Let's say if you're the one who suggested to go out.

ill pay for drinks depending on how cool and compliant the girl is and If I get pussy that night. Other wise she is paying for her own drink and if she gets food ill walk out on her. Drink meet up is not for food and I am definitely not meeting a girl to eat. Hold your frame and laugh at her If she makes a stink about it.

I once met this hot Asian girl for date at bar I go to in nyc. You could see from the start she had over confident attitude pushing above her weight so I ran my own shit test. I ordered myself one drink a glass of wine red and looked back her to see how she would react the girl got flustered and didn't order herself a drink. Even the bartender thought I was going to buy two drinks. I said no I am paying for my wine she can get her own drink. She got almost angry at me. I laughed at her and went to open different girls. The moral never lose frame make the girl invest in you. You cannot buy pussy your sperm and cock is worth more than her pussy with that mindset you will conquer.

FRAME!

[Hypno]

You cheapskates should do yourselves a favor and just invite them on low cost dates, because its embarrassing. Go to a park for a walk and bring a blanket and bottle of wine. Meet her for a hike.

Doing something that is minimal investment in time and money is best for both of you. There is less pressure on the date. Things are less awkward. You and she can schedule multiple dates for the same night if the first one is a dud. Less is more.

[Player_1337]

(01-12-2019 10:32 AM)whiteknightrises Wrote:  

If you have to worry about picking up a check

You have bigger problems than trying to fuck bitches

(And good luck splitting the bill with a girl who is actually hot)

Many guys have been burned by time raping chicks/serial daters and low quality women who have no intention of anything beyond hosing them for money, attention and time.

I'm more than happy to pick up the check if the girl is feminine/sweet/cool and we vibe (even if it doesn't lead to sex on the first meet).

If the girl is disrespectful, blatantly lies, misrepresents her looks (online prospect), or there's zero chemistry-- I ain't paying for them.

[Bikal]

I think that men should pay during the original dating phase, after you've got the bang it kind of switches and becomes more equal although depending on the girl, you could always be paying, not that it's a bad thing just something to be aware of.

[ThrustMaster]

My style of dating uses a great deal of up front vetting via text or other modalities, I usually have a good handle on their physical appearance and general personality traits. I’ve also typically already made her emotionally invested in me. This means my willingness to bang has to be high for me to even mobilize to a coffee date. It also means she is probably 80% sure she wants the D already.

I also, despite in many ways railing against this in principle, feel that as a male my domain is that of provider, I’m successful and my money is a representation of my efforts in life. If I enjoy a woman’s company I will want to pay for the meal, drink or whatever - it makes ME feel good to do so.

However, a woman that takes this first interaction for granted? That makes no mention of it or makes no move or comment to go Dutch? Yeah, sorry that’s outright entitlement and gets put in the negative column, if she’s hot and I can bang I will, but chances are that I will not pursue it further.

Early in my adult dating career I had a chick in her 40’s maybe a 7 age adjusted visit me for a drink in the lobby of a W hotel (trendy) I was staying at for business. She was kind of rude and entitled, after about 30-40 minutes of trying to break the ice i excuses myself to use the bathroom, spoke to the waitress, paid my half of the bill and walked away and left her ass there. The waitress then, I assume delivered the gal the balance. I just went back out the door to a bar down the street - hoes need to be taught a lesson sometimes. My enhanced vetting process filters people like out well before our first meeting is even suggested (online).

P.s. as an older high value male I’ve taken coeds out for meals and drinks, THEY have offered to pay their own way, even if i so severely out earn them it’s absurd, why can’t a 40-something strong, intelligent and independent woman do so? The world is upside down if ya ask me...if a chick isn’t willing to give ME chase I next them, it’s simple.

[wonderman]

(01-10-2019 01:01 PM)LatinaLova Wrote:  

Usually a girl who let's you pay means she's interested. If she pays for hers, it's usually a bad sign.

It's definitely not that clear. I had multiple hundred dates in my life and although I didn't keep a record of who paid and the outcome, I am quite sure you can't make conclusions in this regard.

If at all I'd have rather claimed the opposite. But again, definitely not clear.

[dream100]

(01-12-2019 01:24 PM)wonderman Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 01:01 PM)LatinaLova Wrote:  

Usually a girl who let's you pay means she's interested. If she pays for hers, it's usually a bad sign.

It's definitely not that clear. I had multiple hundred dates in my life and although I didn't keep a record of who paid and the outcome, I am quite sure you can't make conclusions in this regard.

If at all I'd have rather claimed the opposite. But again, definitely not clear.

true. Hooked up with a jewish board last week. She offered to pay for the drink that was enough for me to pay for both of us. Still got layed that night.

[quaker13]

(01-11-2019 04:13 PM)EwartGrogan Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 10:58 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  

No matter how handsome, inshape, game proficient and wealthy you are it’s perfectly reasonable for a woman to expect you to pay for the first date. You will not be fucking any women with high SMVs doing this Dutch shit. Quite frankly, going Dutch is a waste of your time. Stick to drinks and no food till you get the pussy, exception being appetizers

Wrong. I've been dating a catwalk model who I made deliberately to pay for herself on the first date. She told me later that she was so confused about it that she didn't know what to say as she and her friends are used to have luxurious dinners and private VIP lounges covered fully for them. Apparently it was refreshing for her to see someone doing a reality check from her little princes fairy tale.

No offense broski, but exceptions don't prove the rule. Fact is when i go out with a chick i look like a million bucks and it looks completely absurd and incongruent for me to take a woman out dressed as i am and wearing the watch that im wearing only for me to hit her blindly with the dutch question. Who gives a fuck about a $50 drink tab? Odds are i was drinking most the alcohol anyway. I have an insanely high conversion rate once i get a woman out to a first date and i can think of absolutely no pussy i missed out on by applying reverse psychology in this instance

[dream100]

(01-12-2019 03:39 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 04:13 PM)EwartGrogan Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 10:58 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  

No matter how handsome, inshape, game proficient and wealthy you are it’s perfectly reasonable for a woman to expect you to pay for the first date. You will not be fucking any women with high SMVs doing this Dutch shit. Quite frankly, going Dutch is a waste of your time. Stick to drinks and no food till you get the pussy, exception being appetizers

Wrong. I've been dating a catwalk model who I made deliberately to pay for herself on the first date. She told me later that she was so confused about it that she didn't know what to say as she and her friends are used to have luxurious dinners and private VIP lounges covered fully for them. Apparently it was refreshing for her to see someone doing a reality check from her little princes fairy tale.

No offense broski, but exceptions don't prove the rule. Fact is when i go out with a chick i look like a million bucks and it looks completely absurd and incongruent for me to take a woman out dressed as i am and wearing the watch that im wearing only for me to hit her blindly with the dutch question. Who gives a fuck about a $50 drink tab? Odds are i was drinking most the alcohol anyway. I have an insanely high conversion rate once i get a woman out to a first date and i can think of absolutely no pussy i missed out on by applying reverse psychology in this instance

buddy you miss the point. It's not the 50 dollars its the girl investing in you.

[Axel99]

I dont know what going Dutch means but I would NEVER let the girl pay no matter what. I always pay.

[whiteknightrises]

(01-12-2019 12:22 PM)Player_1337 Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 10:32 AM)whiteknightrises Wrote:  

If you have to worry about picking up a check

You have bigger problems than trying to fuck bitches

(And good luck splitting the bill with a girl who is actually hot)

Many guys have been burned by time raping chicks/serial daters and low quality women who have no intention of anything beyond hosing them for money, attention and time.

I'm more than happy to pick up the check if the girl is feminine/sweet/cool and we vibe (even if it doesn't lead to sex on the first meet).

If the girl is disrespectful, blatantly lies, misrepresents her looks (online prospect), or there's zero chemistry-- I ain't paying for them.

If a girl is wasting your time

That's when you pretend to have a call and leave

[quaker13]

(01-12-2019 07:46 PM)dream100 Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 03:39 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 04:13 PM)EwartGrogan Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 10:58 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  

No matter how handsome, inshape, game proficient and wealthy you are it’s perfectly reasonable for a woman to expect you to pay for the first date. You will not be fucking any women with high SMVs doing this Dutch shit. Quite frankly, going Dutch is a waste of your time. Stick to drinks and no food till you get the pussy, exception being appetizers

Wrong. I've been dating a catwalk model who I made deliberately to pay for herself on the first date. She told me later that she was so confused about it that she didn't know what to say as she and her friends are used to have luxurious dinners and private VIP lounges covered fully for them. Apparently it was refreshing for her to see someone doing a reality check from her little princes fairy tale.

No offense broski, but exceptions don't prove the rule. Fact is when i go out with a chick i look like a million bucks and it looks completely absurd and incongruent for me to take a woman out dressed as i am and wearing the watch that im wearing only for me to hit her blindly with the dutch question. Who gives a fuck about a $50 drink tab? Odds are i was drinking most the alcohol anyway. I have an insanely high conversion rate once i get a woman out to a first date and i can think of absolutely no pussy i missed out on by applying reverse psychology in this instance

buddy you miss the point. It's not the 50 dollars its the girl investing in you.

I understand the investing notion, im suggesting this method does more harm than good.

[EwartGrogan]

To each his own. I find it useful to crush expectations of some spoiled queens as the one I mentioned above or with club/Tinder sluts thinking that I owe them something. On the other hand paying for your date (e.g. when she offers to pay for herself and you ignore her completely) can be also a great power move. Everything depends on how you'll play it out. Paying can be beta, going dutch alpha and vice versa. I don't see a reason to make statements "You will not be fucking any women with high SMVs doing this Dutch shit.". World is more complicated than that.

[lunchmoney]

Poor logistics will cost you far more than meals. If you are going to game, you need premium logistics in your city. I would rather have a mortgage payment a couple hundred a month higher to be in the heart of the action. At least you can write off that expense.

[quaker13]

(01-13-2019 01:27 PM)EwartGrogan Wrote:  

To each his own. I find it useful to crush expectations of some spoiled queens as the one I mentioned above or with club/Tinder sluts thinking that I owe them something. On the other hand paying for your date (e.g. when she offers to pay for herself and you ignore her completely) can be also a great power move. Everything depends on how you'll play it out. Paying can be beta, going dutch alpha and vice versa. I don't see a reason to make statements "You will not be fucking any women with high SMVs doing this Dutch shit.". World is more complicated than that.

I concede, the world is more complicated than that. We are on the same page.

[Mess O.]

Fortunately, my last several dates have cost between $0 & $9, so given how that's what we're aiming for as an ideal, I simply pay and it's not an issue.