[Heuristics]

I have been reading the forum for a while, and Central Europe/ Eastern Europe appeals to me, for several reasons: alcohol, cheap prices, white women, more conservative culture etc.

I'm wondering about how all the places stack up. My takeaways from reading various forum threads, although I haven't visited any:

Russia: remains under-rated, but at the expense of required Russian knowledge and visa for many Americans. First tier cities (which would include moscow, and probably St. Petes) are really materialistic so western culture is seeping in, but nonetheless many great opportunities. Second and third tier russia are basically untouched. My thing I get, is that the gender ratio makes it a great place to game. It may take 1st for this region of the world.

Ukraine: it follows in close second after Russia. It has many similarities with Russia, but it seems to be more game saturated, and susceptible to geopolitical instability. The characterizations I get out of it, is that it is a bit provincial compared to Russia, but maybe better luck with english.

Poland: would probably be the forum favorite, but is probably taking third all things considered. Women are more open, little to no language knowledge required, but a huge tourism (PUA and non pua) destination. It would probably be the top EU country for gamers. It is also fairly big, but nowhere near the size of Russia. The first tier and even 2nd tier cities seem to be on the radar of many already, although the Poland thread has been pretty dead recently.

Hungary: I suspect in solid fourth place because of beauty of Budapest and love of Western European/ American dudes. It sounds like a great starting point.

Romania and Czech: they seem to have a lot in common, but women are probably of similar quality and both open to Westerners.

Baltics: they need to be grouped together because of how small they are, but I see conflicting opinions of them, they looked awesome a few years ago, but I don't see much praise for them right now. I wouldn't know where to rank them.

Belarus: this is a niche destination and not many have visited. Sounds like a harder ukraine, or a niche proto-russia.

Balkans (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Montenegro): Mixed bag but Croatia looks like it easily takes first place. There are very polarizing reactions on these countries and I haven't been able to figure out much. Albania and Kosovo look like they're getting almost zero gamers.

Moldova: looks provincial as fuck, and it would look like no one wants to deal with the trouble of gaming in such a small place.

Greece, not really EE/CE, but included because of geography: Maybe off the radar for gamers, but i've read positive accounts in gaming in resort areas.

[pelicanto8888]

As your summary points out - there isn't a huge difference from place to place in central/eastern europe.
The big difference is the countries you listed vs western europe (UK, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc).

If you are planning your first trip to eastern europe just go to the country which interests you the most - you're chances with the ladies will be much the same in each location.

[Heuristics]

(01-07-2019 03:52 PM)pelicanto8888 Wrote:  

As your summary points out - there isn't a huge difference from place to place in central/eastern europe.
The big difference is the countries you listed vs western europe (UK, Scandinavia, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc).

If you are planning your first trip to eastern europe just go to the country which interests you the most - you're chances with the ladies will be much the same in each location.

I have to wonder though, some guys make it out like they arrive in Ukraine and easily secure a bang, while other guys go to the Balkans (Bulgaria, Bosnia, Macedonia) and are either lying their ass off, or having a lot of difficulty getting flags, maybe because they are scared of the men there?

Then I get the impression that places like Warsaw and Budapest which look nice enough, are overrun with gamers and tourists. Is there really a place good for first timers to Eastern Europe?

Running into game-aware women, or anti-PUA types actually scares me in a lot of these destinations.

[jselysianeagle]

(01-07-2019 12:17 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  

I have been reading the forum...

...My takeaways from reading various forum threads...

...It may take 1st for this region of the world...

Poland: ... The first tier and even 2nd tier cities seem to be on the radar of many...

Hungary: I suspect...

Romania and Czech: they seem to...

Baltics:...opinions of them...

Belarus: ... Sounds like a harder ukraine...

Balkans...Croatia looks like...Albania and Kosovo look like...

Moldova: looks provincial as fuck...

Greece...i've read...

Too much analysis, not enough action. Why don't you book a ticket to at least one of these destinations and see for yourself? Your individual experience will likely vary quite a bit compared to reports you've read about a place, for most if not all places anyway.

You sound like that guy 'a beer is enough'.

[RawGod]

Putting Romania and Czechia in the same basket...? Totally different countries in every way. Seems like you need to get some experience for yourself.

[Heuristics]

(01-07-2019 10:29 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 12:17 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  

I have been reading the forum...

...My takeaways from reading various forum threads...

...It may take 1st for this region of the world...

Poland: ... The first tier and even 2nd tier cities seem to be on the radar of many...

Hungary: I suspect...

Romania and Czech: they seem to...

Baltics:...opinions of them...

Belarus: ... Sounds like a harder ukraine...

Balkans...Croatia looks like...Albania and Kosovo look like...

Moldova: looks provincial as fuck...

Greece...i've read...

Too much analysis, not enough action. Why don't you book a ticket to at least one of these destinations and see for yourself? Your individual experience will likely vary quite a bit compared to reports you've read about a place, for most if not all places anyway.

You sound like that guy 'a beer is enough'.

This all breaks down to advantages of EE over South America, that is my other interest, and I am much closer on heading down there than EE. I am asking how the top destinations in EE stack up, and whether they are fitting of me, someone new to game in EE.

I guess what I’m asking, is if someone that has visited a few of these destinations, can tell me their thoughts.

Some of the data sheets are old, so I thought creating a meta-EE thread would create an optimal place for discussion on EE destination positives and negatives.

[BaatumMania]

The grand debate would be which country has the best 2nd tier cities for meeting women? I've only been to 2nd tier Ukraine but in those places the # of foreign men is lower, Tinder isn't overran by escort spam and I found getting dates was easy (although that wasn't my intent of going there). Also every 2nd tier city in Ukraine seems to be on Uber but I'm not sure if that's true for Hungary or Poland.

Sadly most of these countries limit people to 90 days so that discourages me from going again on a long term. And I don't want to spend $5,000 on fake classes or some loophole to stay when that could fund 10 months of apartments elsewhere. I don't want to fall in love with a country only to be forced to leave after 90 days. Then Winter also sucks in most of Europe too.

I'm a long term expat and only a few countries let foreigners stay a long time and Georgia was Incelstan, Taiwan to me is pretty neutral (a little bit better than the West but it's a super liberal place that almost legalized LGBT marriage) and then I'll try the Philippines next.

[travolta]

(01-07-2019 04:06 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Running into game-aware women, or anti-PUA types actually scares me in a lot of these destinations.

lols.

Don't come across like a PUA. There's your solution.

[Buddydowrongright2]

I visited and gamed in two of the countries mentioned, Poland and Moldova, in 2018. I spent three weeks in Moldova and almost three months in Poland. They're both still full of cute girls who will talk to you and be friendlier than girls in the USA. Although if you use online dating your results will still depend heavily on your looks and how soon the girl has gotten out of a relationship - like many Western countries. The rest is up to you.

My results, in case you're interested. I only banged one girl in Moldova who I picked up at a nightclub. Classic nightclub game and it went as smooth as in a textbook. Four hours from saying hello to banging her at my place. You need to have good logistics and be staying in Chisinau. Plenty has been written about Moldova. She was a Russian MILF who was in her early 30s but looked 22. Hot as fuck and fun in bed. She made me laugh. In Poland, I banged a bunch of girls who ranged in appearance and personality from svelte blonde dream girls to bitches that resembled runaway pierogi who didn't want to be boiled. Still overall much higher average quality than the USA. I wrote a datasheet back in August - search for "Buddy's Poznan"

[Heuristics]

(01-08-2019 12:49 AM)Buddydowrongright2 Wrote:  

I visited and gamed in two of the countries mentioned, Poland and Moldova, in 2018. I spent three weeks in Moldova and almost three months in Poland. They're both still full of cute girls who will talk to you and be friendlier than girls in the USA. Although if you use online dating your results will still depend heavily on your looks and how soon the girl has gotten out of a relationship - like many Western countries. The rest is up to you.

My results, in case you're interested. I only banged one girl in Moldova who I picked up at a nightclub. Classic nightclub game and it went as smooth as in a textbook. Four hours from saying hello to banging her at my place. You need to have good logistics and be staying in Chisinau. Plenty has been written about Moldova. She was a Russian MILF who was in her early 30s but looked 22. Hot as fuck and fun in bed. She made me laugh. In Poland, I banged a bunch of girls who ranged in appearance and personality from svelte blonde dream girls to bitches that resembled runaway pierogi who didn't want to be boiled. Still overall much higher average quality than the USA. I wrote a datasheet back in August - search for "Buddy's Poznan"

This actually helps a lot. What would you say are the biggest drawbacks to moldova, and is lack of Moldovan/Romanian and/or Russian a problem?

Poland sounds like a great place, and I'm considering a visit; sounds like a great entry-point to Eastern Europe.

[BaatumMania]

Thing is Russians and Ukrainians tend to be the most sexually liberal in the former USSR. Even moreso than ethnic Latvians and Estonians too I feel. Until I see more guys talking about it I just assume Moldovans are like Georgians or Armenians in terms of putting out. So really if the women don't put out then nobody has a reason to visit Moldova unless they're getting paid by the U.N. or some NGO there.

And ofc there are some partially conservatively areas of Russia and Ukraine (such as Russia's North Caucuses, some argue West Ukraine) but it's pretty easy for a foreign traveler to avoid those places or take a bus / train to another region.

[Ouroboros]

(01-07-2019 11:38 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

The grand debate would be which country has the best 2nd tier cities for meeting women? I've only been to 2nd tier Ukraine but in those places the # of foreign men is lower, Tinder isn't overran by escort spam and I found getting dates was easy (although that wasn't my intent of going there). Also every 2nd tier city in Ukraine seems to be on Uber but I'm not sure if that's true for Hungary or Poland.

Sadly most of these countries limit people to 90 days so that discourages me from going again on a long term. And I don't want to spend $5,000 on fake classes or some loophole to stay when that could fund 10 months of apartments elsewhere. I don't want to fall in love with a country only to be forced to leave after 90 days. Then Winter also sucks in most of Europe too.

I'm a long term expat and only a few countries let foreigners stay a long time and Georgia was Incelstan, Taiwan to me is pretty neutral (a little bit better than the West but it's a super liberal place that almost legalized LGBT marriage) and then I'll try the Philippines next.

Have you considered teaching English? It seems a decent way to extend your time in a country while also financing your stay to a modest extent.

[hellogoodbye]

(01-07-2019 12:17 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  

I have been reading the forum for a while, and Central Europe/ Eastern Europe appeals to me, for several reasons: alcohol, cheap prices, white women, more conservative culture etc.

I'm wondering about how all the places stack up. My takeaways from reading various forum threads, although I haven't visited any:

Russia: remains under-rated, but at the expense of required Russian knowledge and visa for many Americans. First tier cities (which would include moscow, and probably St. Petes) are really materialistic so western culture is seeping in, but nonetheless many great opportunities. Second and third tier russia are basically untouched. My thing I get, is that the gender ratio makes it a great place to game. It may take 1st for this region of the world.

Russia/FSU space was very materialistic since before the big bad evil west started influencing it

[BaatumMania]

(01-08-2019 07:04 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 11:38 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

The grand debate would be which country has the best 2nd tier cities for meeting women? I've only been to 2nd tier Ukraine but in those places the # of foreign men is lower, Tinder isn't overran by escort spam and I found getting dates was easy (although that wasn't my intent of going there). Also every 2nd tier city in Ukraine seems to be on Uber but I'm not sure if that's true for Hungary or Poland.

Sadly most of these countries limit people to 90 days so that discourages me from going again on a long term. And I don't want to spend $5,000 on fake classes or some loophole to stay when that could fund 10 months of apartments elsewhere. I don't want to fall in love with a country only to be forced to leave after 90 days. Then Winter also sucks in most of Europe too.

I'm a long term expat and only a few countries let foreigners stay a long time and Georgia was Incelstan, Taiwan to me is pretty neutral (a little bit better than the West but it's a super liberal place that almost legalized LGBT marriage) and then I'll try the Philippines next.

Have you considered teaching English? It seems a decent way to extend your time in a country while also financing your stay to a modest extent.

Couldn't really find any big leads except British Council who wants a CELTA (which I don't possess) and wages are low in Ukraine too. Then eventually it'll hit winter and based off the Ukrainian chicks I've talked to they have to put up with subpar heating and sometimes no water (they may had been exaggerating but based of what I encountered in Georgia maybe not).

[Buddydowrongright2]

Half of Moldova is ethnically and culturally Russian. The other half is ethnically and culturally Romanian. Gaming either group of women should not be significantly different than gaming said women in their respective countries, except that Moldova is slightly poorer than Romania and an ass load poorer than Russia. There is also only one real city in Moldova so you have to be there. The city itself is pretty small, but there is a great tram system though featuring rickety, 100-year-old tram cars that don’t have ticketing machines, where you must purchase tickets from ancient ticket ladies with whispy mustaches and more moles than Redwall. A thirty-minute ride across town costs $0.15.

[hellogoodbye]

Moldova is much poorer than both Romania and Russia, which are almost at the same level at per capita numbers, their economy is basically african tier, most of their old soviet industry being concentrated in the breakaway Transdniester enclave and in the hands of ex-kgb gangsters.
Most of the cities, towns, villages, etc, in Moldova are almost deserted since most of them(even those of russian ethnicity) can claim romanian ancestry and thus get romanian passports which allows them to move to greener pastures towards western europe.. its pretty hard to find hotties that arent tied up to local boyfriends that are well-off and also they aren't russia-ukraine in the nineties desperate for a foreigner because its 100% certain they have relatives abroad that support them with usd/euros.

[Polniy_Sostav]

(01-07-2019 11:38 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

The grand debate would be which country has the best 2nd tier cities for meeting women? I've only been to 2nd tier Ukraine but in those places the # of foreign men is lower, Tinder isn't overran by escort spam and I found getting dates was easy (although that wasn't my intent of going there). Also every 2nd tier city in Ukraine seems to be on Uber but I'm not sure if that's true for Hungary or Poland.

Sadly most of these countries limit people to 90 days so that discourages me from going again on a long term. And I don't want to spend $5,000 on fake classes or some loophole to stay when that could fund 10 months of apartments elsewhere. I don't want to fall in love with a country only to be forced to leave after 90 days. Then Winter also sucks in most of Europe too.

I'm a long term expat and only a few countries let foreigners stay a long time and Georgia was Incelstan, Taiwan to me is pretty neutral (a little bit better than the West but it's a super liberal place that almost legalized LGBT marriage) and then I'll try the Philippines next.

Just find an official work there and you will bypass the 90 days rules .The process is usually the same in every country :
- apply to Get the visa type D through work. (you must be selected by the locals in places where few multinationals are)
- With this type D visa then apply for a residence permit
- Repeat .

But even if you are just moving for a 1 or 2 months , the main issue is that people are not ready to accept the lack of services/organization and corruption. They want same services but cheaper. You may have almost the same life in countries rather developed and supported by multinationals like Poland , Czech Republic , Croatia etc but for the rest , you have to be accepting to live differently

[BaatumMania]

(01-08-2019 09:50 AM)hellogoodbye Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 12:17 AM)Heuristics Wrote:  

I have been reading the forum for a while, and Central Europe/ Eastern Europe appeals to me, for several reasons: alcohol, cheap prices, white women, more conservative culture etc.

I'm wondering about how all the places stack up. My takeaways from reading various forum threads, although I haven't visited any:

Russia: remains under-rated, but at the expense of required Russian knowledge and visa for many Americans. First tier cities (which would include moscow, and probably St. Petes) are really materialistic so western culture is seeping in, but nonetheless many great opportunities. Second and third tier russia are basically untouched. My thing I get, is that the gender ratio makes it a great place to game. It may take 1st for this region of the world.

Russia/FSU space was very materialistic since before the big bad evil west started influencing it

Eastern Europe was wealthier than the West during certain eras. They also experimented with democracy before USA existed as well (Hetmanate, Novgorod Republic and Poland-Lithuania had an elected Monarch).

Anyway this is why Polish and Ukrainian folk outfits today tend to feature a lot of really bright colors like red & pink (which require expensive dyes). In contrast to German and Scandinavian outfits of the same era that possess more black and brown colors (cheaper to produce).

It's a laughable to compare a Lederhosen to a Vyshyvanka + Sharovary. It's like comparing a Ford Fiesta to a Ferrari.

But of course Eastern Europe really declined so sudden during the Industrial era. The same likewise happened to Spain and Portugal.

So at least this is my answer for why Mediterranean and Slavic cultures tend to be more materialistic than Britain / Germany / Scandinavia. The other Europeans were wealthier and obviously carried some smugness forward into the contemporary time.

[BaatumMania]

(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  

(01-07-2019 11:38 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

The grand debate would be which country has the best 2nd tier cities for meeting women? I've only been to 2nd tier Ukraine but in those places the # of foreign men is lower, Tinder isn't overran by escort spam and I found getting dates was easy (although that wasn't my intent of going there). Also every 2nd tier city in Ukraine seems to be on Uber but I'm not sure if that's true for Hungary or Poland.

Sadly most of these countries limit people to 90 days so that discourages me from going again on a long term. And I don't want to spend $5,000 on fake classes or some loophole to stay when that could fund 10 months of apartments elsewhere. I don't want to fall in love with a country only to be forced to leave after 90 days. Then Winter also sucks in most of Europe too.

I'm a long term expat and only a few countries let foreigners stay a long time and Georgia was Incelstan, Taiwan to me is pretty neutral (a little bit better than the West but it's a super liberal place that almost legalized LGBT marriage) and then I'll try the Philippines next.

Just find an official work there and you will bypass the 90 days rules .The process is usually the same in every country :
- apply to Get the visa type D through work. (you must be selected by the locals in places where few multinationals are)
- With this type D visa then apply for a residence permit
- Repeat .

But even if you are just moving for a 1 or 2 months , the main issue is that people are not ready to accept the lack of services/organization and corruption. They want same services but cheaper. You may have almost the same life in countries rather developed and supported by multinationals like Poland , Czech Republic , Croatia etc but for the rest , you have to be accepting to live differently

Even the simple things are hard to get. I don't recall seeing that much fresh meat in Georgia or even in Kiev unless I went to a French chain like Carrefour. I wonder how many western princesses would cry their eyes out if the supermarket only sold salted sausage and frozen chicken (not precut).

[scrambled]

(01-09-2019 11:09 AM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

Anyway this is why Polish and Ukrainian folk outfits today tend to feature a lot of really bright colors like red & pink (which require expensive dyes). In contrast to German and Scandinavian outfits of the same era that possess more black and brown colors (cheaper to produce).

You should post in the new fiction-only forum, lot of rep points there for you.

[RawGod]

(01-10-2019 10:08 AM)scrambled Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 11:09 AM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

Anyway this is why Polish and Ukrainian folk outfits today tend to feature a lot of really bright colors like red & pink (which require expensive dyes). In contrast to German and Scandinavian outfits of the same era that possess more black and brown colors (cheaper to produce).

You should post in the new fiction-only forum, lot of rep points there for you.

The both of you should take your beef to the Historical Textiles subforum.