[Echovoid_52]

(12-30-2018 04:29 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

Dudes making fun of OP have never lived in a fraternity.

I did. It was the most productive time of my life. As mentioned, domestic tasks can be divided or outsourced.

The biggest advantage is that you live in a house with zero drama. No females = no bullshit.

Women come over to sleep over and fuck off after breakfast, when the men get to work.

The drama leaves with them.

The only thing that lacks is obvious: living with someone who provides that "female energy": someone to take care of you, someone to balance you out emotionally.

As men get older, they desire this energy more and more. That's why they tend to leave the house.

About the competitive aspect: don't live with competitors, live with your friends. Just because you are in the same peer group doesn't mean that you are friends.

Look at the forum. Plenty of dudes who have no interest in collaboration because they see everyone as a potential competitor or because they are too concerned about their own status.

That type of lone wolf behavior disqualifies you from functioning properly within a fraternity, where collaboration is the driving force behind success.

The best summer of my life was spent in a tight knit group of men who were on the same page, working hard towards their goals and were supporting each other. We all made progress and had a blast while doing it.

Male support isn't "gay", it's the way of the gang. (Read that book)

It sounds ideal, but since men at their core ARE competitors, doesn't group collaboration at some point become betrayal? Every male organization I was ever a part of there was always guys fucking each other over and back stabbing. And that's because when you join a frat you're indoctrinated into thinking you'll be joining for life long comradeship, but in actuality every member is competing under the false myth of "brotherhood"

Sorry I'm one of the loners you're talking about. I know some guys on here are very PRO-frat as they see it as the last beacon of masculinity in the west, but most of the frat guys I've met today strike me as sadistic sociopaths who listen to degenerate music like xxxtentacion.

[Shemp]

By default, I've lived for many years in mostly male environments. Weekly low rent hotels/motels in the seedy sections of town, in particular. Not exactly a high class group of men, but I must say, I'd much rather argue about noise and other neighbor disputes with men than women.

One time in my life I really nearly shitted in my pants was when I knocked on the neighbours door in an apartment complex to complain about boob tube sounds at 3am and some lesbian answered. "Call the fucking police on this asshole. He's threatening me," she says to her girlfriend. The look of hate in her eyes was like nothing I've ever seen before. I backed down hard, almost groveling for forgiveness. Next morning asked management to be moved to another apartment and gladly paid the $200 or whatever they required for this. I've been the only white guy in a jail cell full of mean blacks and hispanics but that was nothing compared to the fear that lesbian inspired in me. Two female witnesses again 1 man: I didn't stand a chance.

As someone else noted, these manosphere forums are something of a substitute for all male clubs. Advantage is you just scroll forward to avoid annoying guys. Disadvantage is guys know their statements can't be verified, so they aren't careful to tell the truth and otherwise look out for their reputation.

[The Father]

(12-30-2018 01:52 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

In a further education college in the UK, I lived in a collective together with 14 guys. A fraternity with own rooms but shared living room.

Days of practical jokes, working out together, learned to chase tail in the weekends and some very deep intellectual discussions. I had a complete blast there and so did everyone else!

Fast forward about ten years they're all now in relationships and seem to live the same type of life as every other guy; Ford Fiesta, dog, boring 9 to 5, below average girlfriend/wife and about to have kids or have kids and a house in a boring neighborhood. They don't look happy on their photos anymore (notice how all guys on fraternity photos are smiling). It's like they're bored of life and the energy isn't there anymore.

You think they wouldn't be happier living in a big fraternity again for grown men playing pool, poker, drink, practice hobbies and have intellectual discussions after work instead?
I can understand some wanting female company at times, so sometimes they could be allowed to come over too, like the conjugal visits they have in prisons. Wouldn't this be a better solution?

If people heard that I was planning my life in order to share a future with a male buddy I would just be considered "gay" even though I'm sure every guy knows that he would have much more fun together with me and some buddies, but he can't say anything because it's not socially acceptable.
So instead they rather ditch me and settle for a lesser relationship with a woman.

But isn't it more beta to center your entire life around a woman? Especially today when a girl worthy LTR is not easy to find. This marriage arrangement doesn't make much sense to me.

Do you guys agree? Why is it not more common with men living in this type of fraternity arrangement instead even after education?

My dad lives in a place like that. A fraternity, for adults. It's called a "nursing home"....

[The Father]

(12-30-2018 01:52 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

In a further education college in the UK, I lived in a collective together with 14 guys. A fraternity with own rooms but shared living room.

Days of practical jokes, working out together, learned to chase tail in the weekends and some very deep intellectual discussions. I had a complete blast there and so did everyone else!

Fast forward about ten years they're all now in relationships and seem to live the same type of life as every other guy; Ford Fiesta, dog, boring 9 to 5, below average girlfriend/wife and about to have kids or have kids and a house in a boring neighborhood. They don't look happy on their photos anymore (notice how all guys on fraternity photos are smiling). It's like they're bored of life and the energy isn't there anymore.

You think they wouldn't be happier living in a big fraternity again for grown men playing pool, poker, drink, practice hobbies and have intellectual discussions after work instead?
I can understand some wanting female company at times, so sometimes they could be allowed to come over too, like the conjugal visits they have in prisons. Wouldn't this be a better solution?

If people heard that I was planning my life in order to share a future with a male buddy I would just be considered "gay" even though I'm sure every guy knows that he would have much more fun together with me and some buddies, but he can't say anything because it's not socially acceptable.
So instead they rather ditch me and settle for a lesser relationship with a woman.

But isn't it more beta to center your entire life around a woman? Especially today when a girl worthy LTR is not easy to find. This marriage arrangement doesn't make much sense to me.

Do you guys agree? Why is it not more common with men living in this type of fraternity arrangement instead even after education?

One reason this doesn't work beyond age 27 or so is that men start to "branch" off by financial strata. In college, everyone is in the same financial position - broke. Even if your family is wealthy and you are in one of those elite chapters of an Ivy League school (say, DKE), you are still dependent on Dad's largess.

Fast forward 10 years or so. Some young men are lawyers working until 10pm every night and making $200K. Some are n'er do wells who can't hold down a job because of their disagreeable personality. The idea that they are all going to live in a shared space is unrealistic. The higher-earning guys will want their own house, where NO ONE tells them what to do or how to do it, where they can indulge their own tastes in every way.

But yes, a group of similarly-situated men could try this. But men (and maybe people in general) get less agreeable as they get older, in the same way a middle-aged dog is less playful than a puppy. I'm not sure the idea of a bunch of men living together is practical. BUT, as others have observed, men socializing primarily with other men - in clubs dedicated to that practice - has been the norm from classic times to relatively recently. Only in the west, and only in the lat 40 years or so, has it become verboten for men to want to socialize in a male-only space. Though i have no idea why!

[PapayaTapper]

(12-30-2018 04:22 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 04:15 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

That's just feminist shaming tactics. The irony is that most men are only conditioned this way by society and the feminine imperative to believe that they should value a relationship with a female above his buddies. But every guy knows (and even some women will admit this) that men are far more interesting than women.

Since like 2012 or so, I've never seen anybody who used the words "the feminine imperative" and had anything useful to say.
It's like a giant red flag that you're talking to a weird autist.

Anybody got any theories as to why this is?

Spergs gonna sperg...its the sperg imperative

[Dusty]

[Rhyme or Reason]

(12-30-2018 01:52 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

Fast forward about ten years

This is what the OP is missing.

There's a reason it's appropriate in your teens / early 20's.

It's beyond ridiculous to think you could prolong this sort of living arrangement indefinitely.

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(12-30-2018 04:38 PM)travolta Wrote:  

OP how old are you? This would have been a good idea until my mid 20's, but in my 30's now I value privacy too much. No way I'd want to be woken up by other people at 3am.

30's soon.
I'm pretty sensitive to noise myself but rarely did I have to wake up or get disturbed by other teenage guys even back then when I lived in a fraternity unless there was a big night and some went out.
And I lived in a pretty small house so if you live in a bigger house or building it's unlikely that you're going to be able to hear people in another room further away.

And if you would live with men your age or even slightly younger, they're not going to be as loud and unreasonable. We're talking about adult males that are supposed to be your friends after all, they should know to give each other respect.
Rules could be made that music wouldn't be allowed to be played above a certain decibel or you would have to play a fine. Not much different if you were living in an apartment in the center.

[Rob Banks]

(12-30-2018 01:52 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

In a further education college in the UK, I lived in a collective together with 14 guys. A fraternity with own rooms but shared living room.

Days of practical jokes, working out together, learned to chase tail in the weekends and some very deep intellectual discussions. I had a complete blast there and so did everyone else!

Fast forward about ten years they're all now in relationships and seem to live the same type of life as every other guy; Ford Fiesta, dog, boring 9 to 5, below average girlfriend/wife and about to have kids or have kids and a house in a boring neighborhood. They don't look happy on their photos anymore (notice how all guys on fraternity photos are smiling). It's like they're bored of life and the energy isn't there anymore.

You think they wouldn't be happier living in a big fraternity again for grown men playing pool, poker, drink, practice hobbies and have intellectual discussions after work instead?
I can understand some wanting female company at times, so sometimes they could be allowed to come over too, like the conjugal visits they have in prisons. Wouldn't this be a better solution?

If people heard that I was planning my life in order to share a future with a male buddy I would just be considered "gay" even though I'm sure every guy knows that he would have much more fun together with me and some buddies, but he can't say anything because it's not socially acceptable.
So instead they rather ditch me and settle for a lesser relationship with a woman.

But isn't it more beta to center your entire life around a woman? Especially today when a girl worthy LTR is not easy to find. This marriage arrangement doesn't make much sense to me.

Do you guys agree? Why is it not more common with men living in this type of fraternity arrangement instead even after education?

Because men are hard-wired to (eventually) want to find a good woman and start a family. Even if finding a truly good woman is not a realistic proposition for most men these days, men are still hard-wired to want to start a family and pass on their genes.

There is nothing "beta" about living according to your nature.

The "marriage arrangement" doesn't make sense to you? Throughout civilized human history, men did not marry out of convenience or for fun. The point of the "marriage arrangement" was that it was the best way to raise a family. Do you think that a man would be able to effectively raise a kid while living with his frat bros and only seeing his woman (his children's mother) for "conjugal visits" every now and then?

[Hypno]

The Father dropping some wisdom a few posts back.

Come to think of it The Hollywood Project had a lot of infighting. The rich guy was snaking everyone s girl, Style ended up in a LTR, and Tyler Durden started his competing business and had a half dozen orbiter s living in his closet

[BlastbeatCasanova]

Sounds good on paper. I look back on my days of living with my boys and all the craziness involved with a smile. Now that I’m older I really enjoy my solitude and shutting myself off from the world when I get home. What would be ideal IMO would be having a compound with a bunch of nice apartments and then a big common area. Beat of both worlds.

[Easy_C]

Male only clubs do still exist. Various fraternal secret societies (Masons, Knights of Columbus) and any motorcycle org will be what you're looking for.

[debeguiled]

If you are willing to follow the rule of St. Benedict, this is a breeze.

[JackinMelbourne]

As long as it's not in the same house it wouldn't be a bad idea. For example, an apartment complex where everyone still has their personal accommodation and privacy but with a communal floor where everyone can hang out when they feel like hanging out. Sure, that could work. And a basement, it would definitely need a basement where nobody but the residents are allowed. This basement would be used for fight club, gym, workshop, meetings/voting etc...

[asdfk]

The book The Game is a bad example. What should have happened is that everyone went their own way once they started competing.

[RIslander]

My ideal living situation would be Kramer from Seinfeld.

[Kaligula]

(12-30-2018 05:09 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 01:52 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

Fast forward about ten years

This is what the OP is missing.

There's a reason it's appropriate in your teens / early 20's.

It's beyond ridiculous to think you could prolong this sort of living arrangement indefinitely.

They did so in Sparta, your mini-club was called syssytia. They build it up to your real family, i.e. a group of people with whom you bonded for life whereas your wife was just economic and procreation arrangment on the basis of ownership (well, economy comes from oikos, essentially, just a household, property).

The point is, however, your syssytia was your local fighting group, a clan essentially.
As it was Sparta, fighting was your mission and your life.
So, to live together you must have the same mission. In fact, the idea of monastery is build on the same basis.
In a remote sense, Spartans were like fighting monks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syssitia

[EndsExpect]

So, frats artificially create a sense of togetherness. The guys are all the same age, attending the same school, and sharing a similar social circle. This ends with college and it would be very difficult to recapture the things that bind frat brothers together.

While that time period of my life was perhaps the most exciting and fun... we should aspire to grow up. I know that the Peter Pan lifestyle is what most millennial guys want, but delayed maturity isn't really good for anyone. From age 18 to 25, I learned how to be an adult, a leader, someone that people can depend on. I believe you are supposed to use your mid to late 20's as a time to gain the skills and competence to be the leader of a family. By some point in your 30's... hopefully earlier than later you form a family and begin producing and raising the next generation... teaching them the skills and knowledge you have gained.

[Shemp]

>>Do you think that a man would be able to effectively raise a kid while living with his frat bros and only seeing his woman (his children's mother) for "conjugal visits" every now and then?

Yes, that's the norm throughout human history. Children belong to the mother until 8 or so and are raised by her and the other women and village elders of both sexes. Able bodied men have better things to do. Starting around 8, the boys start spending time around the men. About 13 (puberty) they mostly hang out with boys their own age, with some adult male supervision, occasionally popping by to say hello to mom and sponge off her for food, sewing work, etc.

The nuclear family, where fathers are closely involved with young children, is a recent innovation. It might be why European/Chinese/etc civilisation flourished. The older way is good for producing warriors for hand to hand combat, where athletic ability and bravery are what count, but maybe not so good for producing men capable of inventing and using higher technology weaponry (underground mining, advanced metal working, gunsmithing, ocean navigation, etc).

Whether the nuclear family benefits children and society or not, it only benefits fathers if the father has absolute power, but that ended with women's suffrage and feminism. We aren't going back to the days of patriarchy either, so stop daydreaming about it. Men who want to keep their balls intact AND want children of their own, need to figure out a way to have children without living with the mother. Living with a woman and children in today's society is emasculating.

[MongolianAbroad]

(12-30-2018 04:39 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

This sort of arrangement can be very productive, and it can even be greater than the sum of its parts.

In the book The game, those dudes set up something in the Hollywood hills that they called the project. basically it was the rich guy rented a big ass house and rent it out rooms to everyone to cover the rent.

getting a place is really the biggest impediment to doing this. You basically have to have someone with assets put their name on the line and vouch for everyone else. Once you have a house, you can have parties etc and reap the benefits that are greater than the sum of the parts. But that is the obstacle, the main obstacle

I've done it, I was the guy in charge, it's awesome. The drawback is that you're also the guy with legal ramifications when things go wrong, like you said.

Also, the majority of men in their 20's and 30's in the U.S. aren't aware that dishes don't wash themselves, that the restroom doesn't clean itself, etc. By and large, it's a nation of men-children. You can hire a maid, but again, the pizza box doesn't tear itself into pieces and put itself in the trash, etc.

Men that are actually conscientious, responsible individuals are the exception in the West, not the rule. Maybe it's like that in the rest of the world also for most men of that age, I don't know.

[Jozi]

Having moved around a lot during the last 5-6 years, having a real social life with male friends is something I am deeply missing. I have all the female company I need, but I miss the days of my teens when we'd get the crew together after school, talk shit and come up with things to do (which usually involved something stupid or dangerous - but always fun nonetheless).

Hence I have now started putting some roots into the current country I live in. Starting to get to know more and more guys, but good male relationships takes time to develop in adult age.

I wouldn't want to live with other men however. I tried sharing an apartment with a childhood friend once, never again.

[Repo]

(12-30-2018 04:22 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 04:15 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

That's just feminist shaming tactics. The irony is that most men are only conditioned this way by society and the feminine imperative to believe that they should value a relationship with a female above his buddies. But every guy knows (and even some women will admit this) that men are far more interesting than women.

Since like 2012 or so, I've never seen anybody who used the words "the feminine imperative" and had anything useful to say.
It's like a giant red flag that you're talking to a weird autist.

Anybody got any theories as to why this is?

Because when the way they live their life doesnt speak for itself, they compensate with flowery language.

Nothing is stopping OP from just doing his idea, but instead he created this thread.

[PapayaTapper]

They made a movie about this

"Blue...youre my boy!"

[Fortis]

The only way something like this would work is if they were all in the same industry or were united by some purpose like an all-male justice league.

[HornyRamone]

(12-30-2018 02:20 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Quote:

But isn't it more beta to center your entire life around a woman? Especially today when a girl worthy LTR is not easy to find. This marriage arrangement doesn't make much sense to me.

Is it beta to center your life around a family -- no. Some would argue that this is the most self-less and masculine thing that a man can do

As far as me coming home to a house full of dudes, no thanks. I want to come home to a hot plate of food, a sink with no dishes in it, a bathroom floor that lacks piss on the linoleum, and when I sleep, I want silence, not the sounds of gunshots on the nintendo or tops popping on beer cans.

My sentiments exactly. Living with a bunch of dudes, or a bunch of people for that matter, sounds great when you're 22. Once a man hits his thirties he's set in his ways and is accustomed to his home the way he and his woman or he alone designed it. Not to mention living with one person is grating on your nerves. A group of loud, messy guys will send you to an early grave.