[Barney]

I'm very socially awkward. Can't keep eye contact with people. Very nervous in all social situations and people make me uncomfortable.

I've overheard random strangers mockingly call me awkward to their friends in public many times and laugh about it and it really hurts. Sometimes called weird or creepy. And I do or say nothing to them.

This really hurts to be dehumanized like this and one of the main reasons I'd never even go on a date because why would I subject myself to ridicule like this?

Feels like women are extremely unforgiving to socially awkward guys. It seems like any man who's not a suave player is treated as subhuman who deserves nothing but scorn and mockery. If I go on a date it feels like I'd be photographed by my date and made fun of on social media.

Is there any truth to this or am I just generalizing the most shallow women to all women? Should an awkward guy avoid the extroverted methods of meeting women like Tinder and online dating and try to meet them through less superficial avenues?

[nek]

(12-03-2018 06:55 PM)Barney Wrote:  

I'm very socially awkward. Can't keep eye contact with people. Very nervous in all social situations and people make me uncomfortable.

I've overheard random strangers mockingly call me awkward to their friends in public many times and laugh about it and it really hurts. Sometimes called weird or creepy. And I do or say nothing to them.

This really hurts to be dehumanized like this and one of the main reasons I'd never even go on a date because why would I subject myself to ridicule like this?

Feels like women are extremely unforgiving to socially awkward guys. It seems like any man who's not a suave player is treated as subhuman who deserves nothing but scorn and mockery. If I go on a date it feels like I'd be photographed by my date and made fun of on social media.

Is there any truth to this or am I just generalizing the most shallow women to all women? Should an awkward guy avoid the extroverted methods of meeting women like Tinder and online dating and try to meet them through less superficial avenues?

I'll save you time from further postulating. They're doomed in all dating markets. And it doesn't make women "shallow", it makes them attracted to masculine traits and repellent to feminine traits. Just like you liking softer, feminine women doesn't make you shallow.

[travolta]

(12-03-2018 06:55 PM)Barney Wrote:  

This really hurts to be dehumanized like this and one of the main reasons I'd never even go on a date because why would I subject myself to ridicule like this?

This statement is why you're actually doomed in the dating market.

If you're socially awkward you can always go to Southeast Asia. It's a level playing field out there.

[Donfitz007]

Its natural to feel the way you feel, But you have 2 options! Either be the person you want to be, go out and get ladies. Or 2 continue to Live the unhappy life you're living.

I know you hear about self-improvement all the time but it's a great thing, especially if you do it for yourself. Nerdy i know but I like to treat it like a video game.

Working out not only builds my physique (making me more attractive) it helps me take on more challenges and give me the energy to overcome obstacles.

Learning about game and charisma doesn't only help me get women but help me maintain friendships, pursued others, and get more things in life. Plus its a good feeling to smooth talk yourself out of trouble.

Getting a side gig and making side money is self-explanatory.

I can go on and on about the benefits of self-improvement but the best part about it is. YOU FEEL MORE CONFIDENT. You'll notice yourself walking around with your head up, you'll notice more people ENJOY talking to you, You'll notice that people are now shy to look you in the eyes because the massive amounts of respect they have for you. You're doing this or yourself not for them.


THink of it as your cocoon stage. Batman, James bond, hell alot in real life people have had this stage. The stage in your lfie when you're tired of the BS and you want to improve your life.


Women are not shallow. They're masters of body language and can tell the difference between a nervous guy and a player. A woman can tell the difference between a guy who's faking being an alpha and a guy who IS an alpha. Every great man put hours and hours and hours of work into being great. So start putting in work.

[kaotic]

Barney you have to adapt or die.

Don has the right idea - by adapting you're improving yourself with more than just girls, your making your life better in general.

I'll tell you have was a total introvert with one small group of friends who were dorks in high school, it was a total 180 right when I got out of high school.

You want to know what helped me? Getting a retail job right out of high school that catered to teen and young adults.

[Moma]

(12-03-2018 06:55 PM)Barney Wrote:  

I'm very socially awkward. Can't keep eye contact with people. Very nervous in all social situations and people make me uncomfortable.

I've overheard random strangers mockingly call me awkward to their friends in public many times and laugh about it and it really hurts. Sometimes called weird or creepy. And I do or say nothing to them.

This really hurts to be dehumanized like this and one of the main reasons I'd never even go on a date because why would I subject myself to ridicule like this?

Feels like women are extremely unforgiving to socially awkward guys. It seems like any man who's not a suave player is treated as subhuman who deserves nothing but scorn and mockery. If I go on a date it feels like I'd be photographed by my date and made fun of on social media.

Is there any truth to this or am I just generalizing the most shallow women to all women? Should an awkward guy avoid the extroverted methods of meeting women like Tinder and online dating and try to meet them through less superficial avenues?

How are you when it comes to relating to social awkward lizards? Remember every society is different. Maybe go to a comic convention, there are a lot of offkey lizards there. Or go to a Marvel meetup. Whatever you like, you may find some lizards there who are into what you are into. Hopefully, they also match up physically to what you like.
Quote: Get in where you fit in.

[Fortis]

No.

If they dedicate themselves to being better men they can do quite well. Half this forum was probably socially awkward starting out. I sure as fuck was. I remember some of the texts I used to send and I cringe. Now? I'd say most people can't tell I'm a weirdo unless they're pretty enlightened or named Suits.

[Barney]

(12-03-2018 07:56 PM)Moma Wrote:  

How are you when it comes to relating to social awkward lizards?

Not great. I'm a homebody and rarely go out to socialize. Guess I have to get my life in order before I even think about dating anyone.

I'm into more mature women and cougars. Are they more forgiving of a lack of confidence? I'm assuming not. Would love it if an older woman showed me the ropes but I guess that's just some Mrs. Robinson fantasy that only exists in movies. If it sounds like I'm looking for a quick fix, sorry but I kind of am. Feels that if a milf just taught me the ways I could throw out all the self-doubt and finally break the ice in life. I just need a bit of water in the pool before I can swim.

[droughtmeat]

they were always doomed, but now there are more of them than ever. Video games, cell phones, the internet etc. are just making it harder for guys to wake up and easier to live vicariously

[Veloce]

You can be a weirdo and still get laid. Why do you think this entire forum exists? You think this is a forum of extroverts that get laid all the time?

This reminds me of that Curb Your Enthusiasm clip, it was posted on the forum a while ago.

Chick asks Larry, "You're not one of those creeper guys are you?"

Larry, with a shit eating grin, "I'm a total creeper. The creepiest". Go read some old school game theory and look at a little thing called "Agree and Amplify".

Dread for the future is always far, far worse than the actual reality. Your issue isn't social awkwardness, it's crippling self-doubt. Here's something to think about: The worst thing in life is inaction. Not because of regret, not because of letting other people down, inaction just makes you feel BAD. And I think some people get so used to conditioned to feeling bad that to them it's just normal, they don't even realize they feel bad.

On the opposite end of that, is going out and taking a risk and succeeding. There's no better feeling, and that's as close to being a man as you can get. But another thing that also feels great, if you've got your head screwed on straight, is going out and taking a risk and failing. Being able to say, "I went out, I tried, and I failed." Being able to say, "At least I tried" also makes you a man. Because success or failure, both make you better.

Inaction just makes you one of "them". And also a gigantic pussy. So whatever you think your "thing" is, be it short, bald, small dick, broke, unemployed, awkward, you're just using that a self limiting belief.

Now, if you're on the short end of the genetic lottery or were dealt a bad deal in life, it's important to manage your expectations, especially in America. But at no point should your social awkwardness prevent you from doing the things that everyone else is doing. Hit the gym, read some books, listen to some storytellers, take an acting class. Not to be something you're not, but because doing those things can be FUN and can make you feel BETTER and that's what life is all about.

Editing to add some personal anecdotal experience:

I was painfully socially awkward as a teen. Most of my high school lunch periods was spent by myself in a library reading Kurt Vonnegut. Yeah, that bad. Very few friends, and when I'd make a friend some shit would happen like they'd move away. I finally established a best friend and we built a bond over how much we hated everything. We listened to Marilyn Manson and Depeche Mode and sat in the quad drawing gory pictures of people being decapitated. Then he transferred to home school and I was alone with Kurt Vonnegut.

The ONLY way things got better was taking what I thought was a huge risk. I was invited, god knows why, by a friend of a friend to some Drama Club party. I decided to show up and there's tons of people, I'm kinda freaked out but there's so many people it's easy to get lost in the crowd. I walked around, drank all the free booze I could, and found myself loosening up, found myself enjoying this high vibrational energy of youth and sexual tension, something opened up. All the dread disappeared. At some point there was a makeshift mosh pit and I threw myself in, got tossed around, elbowed, shoved on my ass. I didn't care, I was drunk, laughing, loving all of it. It was freeing, leaving the old me behind.

Sometime later after a lot of kids had left, a group had gathered to play spin the bottle in the middle of a living room. The kid that invited me to the party, I wound up making out with his girlfriend right in front of him. We were all wasted, it was weird. But there was a girl next to her, a girl that I thought was fucking perfect, the girl of my dreams. Long brunette hair, porcelain face, all 16 and perfect and flushed from alcohol. Somehow, through sheer luck of the universe, the bottle landed on the two of us and we went at it. I quickly realized she wanted me as much as I wanted her, the chemistry was explosive, and everyone in the circle was laughing and cheering, like "Ok you two the game's not over".

That was the first girl I ever kissed, at the age of 17. I didn't bang her until a year later and she became my first serious gf.

The awkwardness never totally went away, I probably still have some now, but that night at the party was a major turning point, and it was because for some reason, I just decided to say "Fuck it" and throw myself into the mix. I mean, you think everyone out there is just a smooth talker and naturally smooth? Why do you think so many people drink? Not saying that's the answer, but you're clearly not the only one out there being awkward. Shit I go to company parties that are like nails across a chalkboard until we get a few drinks in us and then the mood lightens considerably and the shit talking and dirty jokes come out, someone fucks someone else and the species keeps on going somehow.

You have to go out and try.

[Philosopher]

Why are you afraid of eye contact? Have you been abused as a child?

[Fortis]

Get on Testosterone. That should cure you of this insufferable need to whine about everything, OP.

[Barney]

(12-03-2018 08:39 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Get on Testosterone. That should cure you of this insufferable need to whine about everything, OP.

Where's the empathy brother? And who's whining?

[Donfitz007]

This forum is great for many men because many posters tell the harsh truth without sugar coating it. However sometimes being harsh doesn't work

In this case, I say be harsh to yourself and dig deep into the red pill.

Right now you have women on a pedestal. You see women as queens and you're merely a peasant IF NOT dirt or a worm. You have to open yourself up to the truth that in 2018 the average woman is shit. Women aren't shit, and they CAN NOT complete a man, only complement a man. They ARE a cheat code to happiness only a potential cause of happiness.

You have to live for yourself. Get rich so you can do things YOU enjoy, Get in shape so you can have the energy to do things YOU enjoy. Like I said women are made to complement a man, HELL they know it. A woman doesn't want to build for a man, only enjoy the things men build, and men feel pride when they see that woman enjoying herself.

Realize you're player 1 in this game of life. You can either die level 100 full of experiences and no regrets or die level 1 still scared to approach or look a woman in the eyes.

Women are going through so much right now and this "shallowness" is a defense mechanism. Women preach Unity but they have never been in war with each other like they are now. its a sad bitter passive-aggressive war. Irrational and narcissistic.

Learn from that and take them off this pedestal. Live your life and enjoy your life.

[Shemp]

@OP: this is your second thread, first being the one about escorts. Based on your writing style, you are indeed very awkward. A little awkwardness is no obstacle to relationships with older woman. That's what I did when I was younger. But I wasn't nearly as awkward as you, just something of a loner.

I think you need to carefully observe how calm older men act and talk, and then imitate them as best you can. No, you don't need to be suave, and you would fail miserably at this point even attempting to be suave. Also try not to be too influenced by some of the younger loudmouths on this forum and definitely don't try imitating them because you'd fail miserably there too. And you might want to back off on reading manosphere and red pill internet sites, since you seem to be overdosing.

Have you read Roosh's Game? I'm reading it now. Roosh has matured considerably since his earlier books. Try reading that and see if you can absorb some of his calmness, along with some sound advice about women that will be useful eventually. Make yourself as physically attractive as possible while working on your awkwardness. Once you are less socially awkward and maximally physically attractive, you can make your availability known to older women. But right now you just going to scare everyone off.

Don't delay, since older women's willingness to overlook awkwardness in younger men is predicated on precisely that youth. An awkward older man wth no sexual experience is not going to receive indulgence from any women. Even escorts will barely tolerate him.

[chicane]

Yeah, the dating scene today really, really sucks for a socially awkward guy. 40 years ago it wasn't like this.

The Private Man would always say "Just be yourself is bullshit, what if you aren't very likeable?"

It is really tough in today's world. It's a lot of work to be even marginally attractive. I've done Toastmasters, it has helped a lot. I've gotten involved in politics, getting up and speaking in front of crowds helps a lot. I've started lifting, I'm not sure if it helps, but I've made friends at the gym. Study body language.

Learn to juggle. Just because.

If you can find somebody to help you develop your game, more power to you. Self study is really hard.

[RDF]

Yes, being socially awkward is going to hurt your chances with women. We can debate for hours whether it has always been like this (its hard for me to believe that socially awkward dudes ever had it easy with women, barring extenuating factors like wealth/status) but it is definitely like this now.

You're in luck though. You can change being socially awkward.

Some things like height, facial aesthetics, and crippling disabilities are not within your control. If a guy is a quadriplegic, he cannot do anything about that. You CAN change aspects of your personality. I urge you to remove the "I am who I am" junk from your head. If you are unwilling to, nobody's advice in this thread will help.

Veloce already gave a great personal anecdote but I'll throw mine in as well.

I was never particularly attractive facially and used to be extremely self conscious about it. In high school and college, I can recall the number of times a girl called me "cute" very easily: Zero. This made me particularly nervous to talk to girls, and after my girlfriend and I broke up, I would go to parties and just stand awkwardly while my friends got laid with women that I wanted. When I'd try to pursue a girl after knowing her for some time, typically I'd get hit with the "you're a nice guy, I just don't like you like that". To this day, the words "nice guy" make my skin crawl.

At a certain point, it really hit me that I was stuck inside of my own head, and if I didn't get out of it, I would never fuck another woman. So I got out of my comfort zone and just began to talk to women at bars and parties. Sometimes I'd ask a few indirect questions and end it there. Later, after a decent conversation, I learned to hand my phone to a girl and say "you seem cool, give me your number, we should hang out again" (shout out to McQueen on this tip, shit works like a charm). Simultaneously I improved my look by finding a haircut that suited me, crafting my own style, and hitting the weights a bit more.

Through each positive experience, my confidence built up further and further, and eventually, I began to go on dates, and even get some one-night stands. Now, 4 years later, I look back on my lack of confidence with amazement.

Beyond the obvious things that you should do (improve your look + go out and talk to women), you need to change your mentality. It is easy to read a lot on the internetz about how all women are vapid sluts, but if you're interested in pursuing them, it is the wrong attitude to go with (unless you've internalized game, which only happens from experience).

I've learned to genuinely enjoy meeting new women, and even some drunk slutty one-night stand from a dive bar creates a fun memory for the both of us. And I go into each interaction with a curiousity about her, what cool shit has she done, how fun would it be to fuck her, and so on. Going in with the attitude of "here's approach #5 for the night, looks like another typical white girl slut", it will be very difficult to get anywhere.

[tugofpeace]

Hard truth: depends on how attractive you are.

[LINUX]

Consider throwing away your coffee pot.

Now, every morning, you are forced to walk to the coffee shop where you sit down around other people, instead of hiding out inside your home. Start with this.

Also you may also consider moving to Boulder or Austin. People in very liberal, left-leaning cities, are usually more accepting of people who are strange and awkward.

Are you doomed when it comes to women? Absolutely not.

[chicane]

(12-03-2018 10:56 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Consider throwing away your coffee pot.

Now, every morning, you are forced to walk to the coffee shop where you sit down around other people, instead of hiding out inside your home. Start with this.

Also you may also consider moving to Boulder or Austin. People in very liberal, left-leaning cities, are usually more accepting of people who are strange and awkward.

Are you doomed when it comes to women? Absolutely not.

Not Austin. It's full of insane SJWs & feminists. They despise awkward men and will attack you for it.

[Sisyphus]

(12-03-2018 11:20 PM)chicane Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 10:56 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Consider throwing away your coffee pot.

Now, every morning, you are forced to walk to the coffee shop where you sit down around other people, instead of hiding out inside your home. Start with this.

Also you may also consider moving to Boulder or Austin. People in very liberal, left-leaning cities, are usually more accepting of people who are strange and awkward.

Are you doomed when it comes to women? Absolutely not.

Not Austin. It's full of insane SJWs & feminists. They despise awkward men and will attack you for it.

Nor Boulder. Superficial, phony, whatever. Choose your adjective but the idea is the same. What plays well there is weirdness as an affectation put on by basic mainstream people. Possibly the worst place imaginable for the OP.

You have a lot of work to do, but you need to start slow. I say address the eye contact issue first. Even a nice or understanding girl is going to be put off by someone who can't maintain eye contact. Same goes for potential employers in a job interview.

You haven't talked about what your interests are. What is something you'd be excited to have a conversation about? People here rag on professional sports and video games but if these are what excite you then find a way to connect with people with similar interests. The point is that it doesn't matter if your interests are "nerdy" - what matters is if the interest is genuine.

It'll be awhile before you can tolerate listening to some basic bitch prattle on about trivial gossip regarding people you don't know, her cat, pumpkin spice beverages, singing shows, etc. so make reasonable short term goals, achieve them, and then make them more challenging. Just maintaining eye contact for the duration of a simple transaction might be one such goal if this is something you find challenging now. Get a good night's sleep and try to do it tomorrow. Don't sweat it if you don't succeed the first time.

[quaker13]

The OP sounds like he had a father that worked a lot or was just lazy and inactive. Not only that, his mother must've been in a malaise as well. This never happens to children being raised actively by their parents. Those are probably the facts.

Guess what OP? Doesn't matter now and the world don't give a damn. Time to stop feeling sorry for yourself and do what all the gentlemen except for a few assholes above me said and that's improve yourself. This person you are right now isn't your best self. You fucking know it. You're better than this. First things first, start exercising. I don't mean lifting, I mean physical activity starting with at the very least a 30-60 minute walk outside. Start in a relative quiet area then start walking in a more populated area and observe how folks interact. This is fixable, you know it is. Just don't be complete nothing and quit the process. Starting tomorrow, shave and wear some decent clothes to where ever the hell you are going. Get your haircut by an experienced stylist. These are just basics, read the forum for more.

Good luck brother!!!

[HankMoody]

(12-03-2018 08:25 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

You can be a weirdo and still get laid. Why do you think this entire forum exists? You think this is a forum of extroverts that get laid all the time?

This reminds me of that Curb Your Enthusiasm clip, it was posted on the forum a while ago.

Chick asks Larry, "You're not one of those creeper guys are you?"

Larry, with a shit eating grin, "I'm a total creeper. The creepiest". Go read some old school game theory and look at a little thing called "Agree and Amplify".

Dread for the future is always far, far worse than the actual reality. Your issue isn't social awkwardness, it's crippling self-doubt. Here's something to think about: The worst thing in life is inaction. Not because of regret, not because of letting other people down, inaction just makes you feel BAD. And I think some people get so used to conditioned to feeling bad that to them it's just normal, they don't even realize they feel bad.

On the opposite end of that, is going out and taking a risk and succeeding. There's no better feeling, and that's as close to being a man as you can get. But another thing that also feels great, if you've got your head screwed on straight, is going out and taking a risk and failing. Being able to say, "I went out, I tried, and I failed." Being able to say, "At least I tried" also makes you a man. Because success or failure, both make you better.

Inaction just makes you one of "them". And also a gigantic pussy. So whatever you think your "thing" is, be it short, bald, small dick, broke, unemployed, awkward, you're just using that a self limiting belief.

Now, if you're on the short end of the genetic lottery or were dealt a bad deal in life, it's important to manage your expectations, especially in America. But at no point should your social awkwardness prevent you from doing the things that everyone else is doing. Hit the gym, read some books, listen to some storytellers, take an acting class. Not to be something you're not, but because doing those things can be FUN and can make you feel BETTER and that's what life is all about.

Editing to add some personal anecdotal experience:

I was painfully socially awkward as a teen. Most of my high school lunch periods was spent by myself in a library reading Kurt Vonnegut. Yeah, that bad. Very few friends, and when I'd make a friend some shit would happen like they'd move away. I finally established a best friend and we built a bond over how much we hated everything. We listened to Marilyn Manson and Depeche Mode and sat in the quad drawing gory pictures of people being decapitated. Then he transferred to home school and I was alone with Kurt Vonnegut.

The ONLY way things got better was taking what I thought was a huge risk. I was invited, god knows why, by a friend of a friend to some Drama Club party. I decided to show up and there's tons of people, I'm kinda freaked out but there's so many people it's easy to get lost in the crowd. I walked around, drank all the free booze I could, and found myself loosening up, found myself enjoying this high vibrational energy of youth and sexual tension, something opened up. All the dread disappeared. At some point there was a makeshift mosh pit and I threw myself in, got tossed around, elbowed, shoved on my ass. I didn't care, I was drunk, laughing, loving all of it. It was freeing, leaving the old me behind.

Sometime later after a lot of kids had left, a group had gathered to play spin the bottle in the middle of a living room. The kid that invited me to the party, I wound up making out with his girlfriend right in front of him. We were all wasted, it was weird. But there was a girl next to her, a girl that I thought was fucking perfect, the girl of my dreams. Long brunette hair, porcelain face, all 16 and perfect and flushed from alcohol. Somehow, through sheer luck of the universe, the bottle landed on the two of us and we went at it. I quickly realized she wanted me as much as I wanted her, the chemistry was explosive, and everyone in the circle was laughing and cheering, like "Ok you two the game's not over".

That was the first girl I ever kissed, at the age of 17. I didn't bang her until a year later and she became my first serious gf.

The awkwardness never totally went away, I probably still have some now, but that night at the party was a major turning point, and it was because for some reason, I just decided to say "Fuck it" and throw myself into the mix. I mean, you think everyone out there is just a smooth talker and naturally smooth? Why do you think so many people drink? Not saying that's the answer, but you're clearly not the only one out there being awkward. Shit I go to company parties that are like nails across a chalkboard until we get a few drinks in us and then the mood lightens considerably and the shit talking and dirty jokes come out, someone fucks someone else and the species keeps on going somehow.

You have to go out and try.

Yay, somebody said something smart and I don't have to write anything.

[Repo]

(12-03-2018 11:20 PM)chicane Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 10:56 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Consider throwing away your coffee pot.

Now, every morning, you are forced to walk to the coffee shop where you sit down around other people, instead of hiding out inside your home. Start with this.

Also you may also consider moving to Boulder or Austin. People in very liberal, left-leaning cities, are usually more accepting of people who are strange and awkward.

Are you doomed when it comes to women? Absolutely not.

Not Austin. It's full of insane SJWs & feminists. They despise awkward men and will attack you for it.

Man I was in Austin a couple months ago it was chill as fuck and everyone was super friendly

[LINUX]

(12-03-2018 11:41 PM)Sisyphus Wrote:  

Nor Boulder. Superficial, phony, whatever. Choose your adjective but the idea is the same. What plays well there is weirdness as an affectation put on by basic mainstream people. Possibly the worst place imaginable for the OP.

That's just not accurate.

I assure you if anyone on this forum is an expert on Boulder, it would be me, since I live here and have lived here for a very long time.