[Freebird Flying]

For a girlfriend, and possibly a LTR, how important would you rate high IQ or Height?

I have a girl with a nice disposition, she's not really super deep into conversation usually but she has great interpersonal skills and is very reliable. I was playing these audiobooks earlier and she's like kind of spacing out and I can't get her to read a book around me.

Also, she's around 5 foot. A little short.

But, she's very feminine, a great listener, and an all around likeable girl. She's also attractive and very loyal.

I guess, if I want a deep conversation, I can just go elsewhere. She's able to have mid level conversations alright. Very down to earth girl

Maybe it's better that she's just down to earth than a girl who's perhaps smarter but has other downsides.

Who has good or bad experience with the very smart girls? Any stories or opinions?

The height question is an optional one. The intelligence subject seems more interesting. About how that affects relationships and how important of a factor it is in choosing the girls you want to be around.

[pazuk123]

It depends. Do you possibly want to have kids with this chick? If so, remember that both her intelligence and height will play a factor in your child's life. If it's just a fun thing with no future, who cares?

I dated this HB9 for about 18 months, and things were starting to get serious (read as she wanted to progress the relationship). She was in her final year of school, and was student teaching at the time. We were driving and she was telling me how she was so excited for the lesson plan she was teaching next week on "The Sixteenth Chapel." I paused, and asked her what she said, as maybe I misheard her. She again muttered "The Sixteenth Chapel." I laughed and said I don't think I'm familiar with that. She looked at me in awe and said "Are you serious? It's in Rome and Michelangelo painted it." I said hmmm. I had her come over later that night to talk and broke up with her on the spot. I knew she wasn't a rocket scientist, but not this dumb. This is someone who would eventually be teaching our youth!

Point of the story is regardless of how hot the girl is, for me if you want an LTR or even more, the intelligence has to be there. Non-negotiable.

[Hypno]

height and intelligence have a strong genetic correlation, but it doesn't really matter unless you're planning to have kids.

As I have gotten older, I value a woman's attitude and disposition more than anything else. Big tits helps too.

[lunchmoney]

(11-10-2018 01:01 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

height and intelligence have a strong genetic correlation, but it doesn't really matter unless you're planning to have kids.

As I have gotten older, I value a woman's attitude and disposition more than anything else. Big tits helps too.

+1
I only truly have paid attention to genetics if I was thinking about starting a family/marriage etc with a woman. If she is a plate, not a dealbreaker if she is ditsy or 5'1.

[John Michael Kane]

Taller girls tend to have higher IQ, but they also have higher T-levels, making shorter girls more feminine on average. Everything is a trade-off.

It sounds like you have a great girl overall. If your intention is marriage and kids, ask yourself if you want her to be the future mother of your children? Does she have the qualities to pull it off? Also, is she teachable? Having a higher IQ past a certain point isn't really a plus if you don't have a teachable spirit. If she follows your lead and her IQ is enough to learn from you, do you really benefit by considering trading her in when she has other great qualities? Think carefully, but it sounds like you already have a great woman, providing she checks all your other boxes.

Really deep conversations are best had with men. Most women tire of deeply intellectual subjects. Women want comfort and a sense of humor. The more feminine the woman, the more childlike they are in many ways, and that is a good thing, as they wish to be around and have and raise children. The number one filtering item you should have on your list is "does she have the stuff to pull off being the mother of my kids"? Everything else is secondary, to a significant degree.

[ChefAllDay]

(11-10-2018 12:17 PM)Freebird Flying Wrote:  

I have a girl with a nice disposition, she's not really super deep into conversation usually but she has great interpersonal skills and is very reliable. I was playing these audiobooks earlier and she's like kind of spacing out and I can't get her to read a book around me.

Also, she's around 5 foot. A little short.

But, she's very feminine, a great listener, and an all around likeable girl. She's also attractive and very loyal.

I guess, if I want a deep conversation, I can just go elsewhere. She's able to have mid level conversations alright. Very down to earth girl....

Sounds almost perfect to me. As mentioned deep conversation with women is not really all that possible, and IMO would be a detriment to a LTR.

[Laner]

Genetics from the mother do play a factor, but you should also look at her father and see what kind of man he was. Its crazy how much kids take after grandparents. In many ways, even more so than parents.

When people mention how much your kid looks like you, a lot of it has to do with mannerisms. Kids mimic their parents. But grandparents spend far less time with their grandkids, yet many have traits specific to them.

[66Scorpio]

Kids is where height and intelligence factor in. Still, if it's an LTR then personality and disposition, as well as looks generally, are the keys.

If you are trying to make it in business, politics or media, having a tall partner gives you more cred. It's like a halo effect. If you are out at a party or other function, few things say status more than a 6-foot blonde on your arm.

In terms of sex, the short-ass girls tend to be more fun, unless I suppose that you yourself are 6 ft+ and a well-muscled 200+

In terms of kids, having a short wife means you are rolling the dice for your kid. It's not a tragedy to have a daughter who is built like a pixie, but a son? Or you need to luck out either through regression to the mean or genetics skipping a generation. My grandfather was 5'7" or so, my uncles were 6'2" and 6'4", and I am 5'10".

Intelligence is a bit harder to pin down. There is IQ, there is intellect, and there is education. Then there is common sense and emotional intelligence. As well, practical intelligence and informal logic.

The first three are rarely all found together. In the modern west, high IQ people can get themselves a good education but it doesn't mean they are "intellectual"; they don't necessarily like to think about things for the sake of thinking about things or getting into "deep" discussions. Most of the objectively smartest girls I dated used their smarts to pursue a career: medicine, pharmacy, business. However, none were intellectual. On the other hand, I attended a left coast law school. So there I was, trapped in a building with 100 women between the ages of 21 and 25 for 3 years. . . and I didn't date a single one. They were insufferable.

[zamfir112]

intelligent girls tend to be hypergamous and also unloyal. they also tend to be the girls that do not stick around in a LTR.medium intelligence is enough. no need for those university girls.. also the educated girls tend to be more masculine

[Bucephalus]

Great thread, enjoying the read.

I rate loyalty and disposition much more highly than intelligence. As well as other character traits like work ethic. If she happens to be a math or linguistics whiz then that is a massive bonus. If she is truly dim then I'd stay away, but I wouldn't evaluate this based on her intellectualism alone – plenty of people are intelligent without a dot of "intellect".

A few of my reasonings.

Although intelligence is highly genetically determined, it is no guarantee. Ever meet a smart couple with a not-so-smart kid? Happens all the time. You can have an unlucky roll of the dice. Temperament is even more of a lucky dip.

Intelligence alone is insufficient. Determination, work ethic, and other attitudinal characteristics are important too. Some of this is temperament, some of this is role-modelled etc. I'd like a girl with work ethic but little career ambition.

I think chemistry and social cohesion between parents is important. I'd put money on a untalented kid in a stable home versus a talented kid from a broken home, although we are more likely to read about the exceptions. I'd rate loyalty and positive disposition more highly than rote intelligence for this reason alone. You want the bond between you and her to be strong enough to deal with whatever the genetic lottery brings to the table.

Intellectualism doesn't equate to intelligence. If she is sociable then that is a good sign. I would be more hesitant with a girl who was dim to the point of missing out on understanding more complex social dynamics. Another yellow flag would be if she wasn't interested in what I had to say. If you are passionate about a certain intellectual pursuit, try to convey that passion – I find most girls get interested if you can break things down for them and explain in layman terms. If she is uninterested I think it is more a disposition/chemistry issue, but yes there needs to be a certain level of intelligence.

Height I just don't care about. I'm attracted to girls of various heights and when she's petite that hits the override button fairly hard.

On paper I think she sounds like a winner.

And if you're not in the LTR for potential kids down the line, I wouldn't be concerned about these issues at all.

[Flux]

Usually when a player gets into a LTR it's because he's not thinking straight, and just fell in love.

You usually fall for women that have character traits you love in your mother. You really can't control or choose who you fall in love with.

The best trait a man can have for relationships is a resistance to falling in love, because women thrive on the stupidity that arises out of a man in love.

[MikeS]

I get bored quickly in a relationship - hell, I'm unlikely to go past fucking her for more than a few weeks or months at the most - if the girl isn't intelligent enough for at least good casual and fun conversation, as well as being able to debate and have her own, preferably researched, opinions on concrete subjects like nutrition, exercise, health, whatever else is relevant in daily life.
I don't need her to be interested in abstract topics - I haven't even had guy friends in years that I have regularly engaged in the finer points of philosophy, ethics, faster-than-light travel and other very important topics - I'm usually satisfied with acquiring a satisfactory degree of knowledge of such matters by reading.

This does however mean that my medium and long term relationships have been with more or less well educated women, above average IQ (my own level or a bit lower), working "good" (ie. usually fairly well paid, obnoxiously stressful) office jobs, which obviously comes with some potential... well, concrete relationship problems. Overall though my few genuine LTRs have primarily been good, while most of my medium term relationships have suffered more. But I guess that's why they didn't go to LTR.

As far as her height goes I've dated some girls taller than me. Didn't care much for it. My height or shorter.

[MongolianAbroad]

(11-10-2018 07:31 PM)Flux Wrote:  

Usually when a player gets into a LTR it's because he's not thinking straight, and just fell in love.

You usually fall for women that have character traits you love in your mother. You really can't control or choose who you fall in love with.

The best trait a man can have for relationships is a resistance to falling in love, because women thrive on the stupidity that arises out of a man in love.

And a good mother.

Because if you had a shit mother, you're going to keep falling in love with shit women.

You're basically fucked from the start and won't understand why.

[Freebird Flying]

(11-10-2018 06:31 PM)zamfir112 Wrote:  

intelligent girls tend to be hypergamous and also unloyal. they also tend to be the girls that do not stick around in a LTR.medium intelligence is enough. no need for those university girls.. also the educated girls tend to be more masculine

This is interesting. Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

[BlastbeatCasanova]

I probably wouldn't listen to an audiobook with a girl, but for there to be any long-term potential she can't be a dumbass, that's for sure. A chick with decent smarts and a good attitude can be a real breath of fresh air

[Freebird Flying]

(11-10-2018 07:31 PM)Flux Wrote:  

Usually when a player gets into a LTR it's because he's not thinking straight, and just fell in love.

You usually fall for women that have character traits you love in your mother. You really can't control or choose who you fall in love with.

The best trait a man can have for relationships is a resistance to falling in love, because women thrive on the stupidity that arises out of a man in love.

I've been dating her for awhile now. A few years.

It's not too late to walk away but she's been an amazing girlfriend...

I still game, but only outside of my city.

[Tiger Man]

Oh, the stories I could tell you about "smart" girls.

First off, on height. I don't really care and neither should you. If she's a pixie, something is attracting you to her and vice versa. The same idea applies if you're dating a WNBA player. If she's hot, and she doesn't see it as a problem, why do you? The only issue, as stated, is with kids. Assume the potential range for kid's heights will fall somewhere between the two of you and act accordingly. If you end up with a freakishly small son, you can always have him put on hormonal treatments during puberty (not ideal, but neither is being a 5 ft guy).

But back to intelligence/IQ/smarts. This can be a bit of a minefield to walk through with women. The only upside to this story is that (as I'm sure we all know) women cluster about the mean. So, it's far more likely that you will encounter several women of the same general intelligence than you will men of the same general intelligence.

The issues you may encounter are both absolute and relative to your own intelligence.

As far as the absolute ones go, women with higher IQ scores correlate (in almost all testing done on these matters) with two problems - higher infidelity rates and lower sexual interest. Oddly, these two points don't have to be mutually exclusive. And, the higher the IQ, the more likely the woman is to report one or both of these.

Relative to you, you have another suite of issues. I will speak more from personal experience here - over a decade working in university settings nets you a lot of experience with intelligent women (or women who think they are intelligent). So, let's start with that. I have met women with PhD after their names that couldn't tell me the capital of their home country. Education, especially now, is no indicator of IQ or intelligence. I will qualify that a bit by pointing out that, obviously, if she has a degree in higher mathematics from Caltech, that is something else entirely. Most women, even the very well educated, studied weak majors.

Another thought is that you want a girl who has an IQ within a small range of your own. Dating a girl thirty points lower on the scale is going to get old, fast. But, it will be the same for her if you are dating way up the scale. And, a person with a 145 IQ honestly does think differently from a person with a 100 IQ. It's just how it is.

Also, there is a "trap" area that I have noticed of girls who are just smart enough (and often expensively educated). Girls in the 110-120ish? area (I'm guessing) seem to be walking examples of the Dunning–Kruger effect (see most of my posts for an example of this effect ). Seriously though, you do not want a girl who thinks she's a genius when she is just mildly more intelligent than the median.

If I had complete control over the attributes of a girl I was going to LTR/marry, I would want one slightly less intelligent than me, who was not terribly interested in formal education, and who's natural inclination was to direct her intelligence towards either "traditionally feminine" activities or something lonerish and technical. I once dated a girl for a little bit who was quite smart and had taken a short course in graphic design. She worked from home doing technical drafting for sales manuals. So, the specs for reinforcing rebar slabs or scopes for a new sniper rifle - that sort of stuff. She was awesome to talk to and quite well read. But, she wasn't sullied by either the ideological indoctrination of modern universities, nor the attitude of status signalling that they gift their students.

On a final note, I have been "studying" couples and the like for quite a long time (I still do it - It's just unofficial now). Within the scope of what we are talking about, temperament and commonality of interests seem to trump all other areas for successful and contented LTRs and marriages. It is probably much more important that she can stand listening to you tell the same stupid joke 20,000 times than it is that she can discuss the finer points of plasma physics with you. That is, unless you are some sort of aspie with a hard on for plasma physics. But, that's your problem, not her's.

[RatInTheWoods]

I don't care about her height, just hotness.

She has to not be stupid. I mean you only spend so long in the bang, after that you actually have to talk to her, so being able to converse with a non dummy very important.

But far, far more important is "the happiness gene" as papa calls it. So she is positive, happy and fun to be around.

[TravelingBodybuilder]

intelligence is pretty important for LTR. Broke up with a girl because she was low intelligence I had to do all the thinking for her. IF i let her think she would screw everything up. for example(1 example out of many... because i dont want bore you guys with stories nor think about her)

I gave her a simple job to find out where this tourist attraction was... and she took me to the wrong spot..(she was a local in that city . like why tell me you know where it is and not just use gps if you were unsure...). And would bring her passport everywhere when i took out of the country because she was not smart enough to realize that she can take a picture of it and she would tell me its the law to carry it everywhere or you can get in trouble in some 3rd world country shit hole..... just stupid like this pissed me off.... as if the cops check random people for passports, and wont accept a $10 bribe or not accept a picture of the passport with passport stamp on the phone.. She also was slow with everything.... Something that should take 10 minutes would take 30 minutes..... she was slowing me down . she was sexy, but whats the point of arm candy when your life is miserable lol. i couldnt deal with it. towards the end everytime she opened her mouth just something inside of me would get annoyed...

[flyinghorse]

Intelligence and being well read is essential to me. Spending a lot of time with someone who cannot talk about books, culture, and ideas would grow incredibly boring after a month or two.

Height wise - I wouldn't go out with anyone over 5'10 because I am 5'11.

[Freebird Flying]

(11-11-2018 04:05 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

But far, far more important is "the happiness gene" as papa calls it. So she is positive, happy and fun to be around.

Ya she definitely has this going. It's a great attribute and much appreciated.

That's generally the default state of most hot girl in their prime though, with all of the validation they are constantly getting though, correct?

What age does this kind of default kind of state start to change with a lot of girls? I think, around 27 or 28 things can change fast haha

[zatara]

Intelligence is incredibly important. I've dated stupid girls and I've dated smart girls in the past, and I'd never go back to a stupid girl for anything more than a fuckbuddy. Both because the prospect of having stupid kids is absolutely horrifying, and just for my own sanity. You spend more time with your significant other than any other person. Spending all of that time with someone you can't have intelligent conversations with is just such a waste.

There are a lot of intelligent girls with awful aggressive feminist attitudes unfortunately, but the key is just not settling for one of them.

[pitt]

If her IQ is lower than 100, she is out of question, higher than 145 she is out of question too. I was seeing this chick mid this year and I gave her this IQ test 123test.com/iq-test/ (It's a short test and most of my friends and acquaintances have done it), she scored around 85, this IQ test is not even a ''real'' one and she scored really low, after that, I knew 100% that I wouldn't be in a serious relationship with her. As the relationship progressed her IQ really started to show, dumb girls is out of question.

Also, your kids will pick up more your wife genetic IQ than yours, that's just how nature works. I am not planning to find a woman as smart and well read as I am, likely that it won't happen, considering that I am marrying a black non western born woman. Other traits are more important for me (feminine, from stable home, writes and reads well her native language and knows how to listen).

[The Golden God]

Not short enough that my friends think I have a thing for midgets, I'm around 6' 1" and girls that are around 5'0" are really pushing it, but all height has to potentially do with is how it would factor into your kids.

Smart enough to hold a conversation but dumb enough to know her place. Personally, I'm an independent, cerebral person and it irritates me when I have a dumbass who always needs clarification on things. But, on the other hand I've dated Ivy league girls that are just as annoying with the high levels of anxiety & drama that comes with smart girls (they will ALL have psychosis of some sort).

Once again, unless you're having kids with this girl then it doesn't matter that much.

With that said I would prefer a girl who is about 20 points on the IQ scale below me... and about 4"-9" shorter than me if I'm really cherry-picking.

[Freebird Flying]

(11-12-2018 10:07 AM)pitt Wrote:  

If her IQ is lower than 100, she is out of question, higher than 145 she is out of question too. I was seeing this chick mid this year and I gave her this IQ test 123test.com/iq-test/ (It's a short test and most of my friends and acquaintances have done it), she scored around 85, this IQ test is not even a ''real'' one and she scored really low, after that, I knew 100% that I wouldn't be in a serious relationship with her. As the relationship progressed her IQ really started to show, dumb girls is out of question.

Also, your kids will pick up more your wife genetic IQ than yours, that's just how nature works. I am not planning to find a woman as smart and well read as I am, likely that it won't happen, considering that I am marrying a black non western born woman. Other traits are more important for me (feminine, from stable home, writes and reads well her native language and knows how to listen).

Great idea on the IQ test!

I was thinking of running this on my dates as a "game"

I don't know what stage. Probably the comfort phase (Date) or after I already closed her to help see if I want to throw her in rotation or not. If you do it on the date it can also be a strong qualifier and if she scores low you could fuck with her about it. Anyone like my idea or dislike it?