[Vladimir Poontang]

Women don't seem to have fixed personalities. Men pride themselves on what they are, whereas women pride themselves on how flexible they can be.

It's very unlikely, to say the least, that a straight man would do anything with another man, because it would create a feeling of going against what you are. It would feel very wrong and inappropriate and therefore disgusting and weird. It would be like speaking in a different accent all day or pretending to be someone you're not, and men find that very uncomfortable.

But women are more capable of doing stuff with another woman, simply because they don't have the same level of disgust at going against what you are, because they really don't have strong personalities. Even if a girl doesn't want to kiss another girl, if she were to do it for whatever reason, she probably wouldn't spend the next few weeks feeling disgusted at herself like a man would. Whenever I see some gay shit in a thumbnail image on a porn site (it happens) I do the sign of the cross and wash my eyes with water and tell myself I never saw anything.

Also women tend to change quite drastically depending on what's going on around them, who they're associating with, their age, life events and so on. Everyone changes somewhat but men tend to retain a certain core of themselves.

Women mostly don't like to debate or argue, because they don't really have convictions like men do. They don't feel strongly about anything much unless it affects them, whereas men pride themselves on standing for principles. It seems that women don't have principles or convictions. Women can say fine and pretend to agree with you but men find it hard because it matters and it's weak to just flop and give in.

Women are amazingly capable of hiding what they really think or feel. A woman can go for years pretending to fine with a certain situation while secretly hating it. Men don't have that kind of patience. In fact it's not even a matter of patience because men have clear ideas about what they want and they have the power to influence situations and people, and so there's no need to tolerate something if you can change it.

Also they don't actually know what they're attracted to. Whether a girl likes you or not can depend on any number of things in that precise moment. You can be a perfectly normal guy and be rejected by a girl for no particular reason at all.

Those are just some thoughts to get the discussion started. This is something that I think about often.

[Disco_Volante]

They evolved social skills and manipulation as their natural weapons since they could never take on men directly. Nature gave them eggs as their value there was never any reason for them to be congruent. They take the shape of whatever society tells them to be.
They need social approval and tribe protection more so than a man so they will always bend to the social situation.

[Johnnyvee]

It`s mostly about sexual selection I think. Women do the selecting, and they do know what they want, although they`re not necessarily consciously aware of it. They go on instinct mostly. (hence shit test etc.)

But the reason that women are more "fluid" as you mentioned is simply due to the fact that they (by biological coincidence) have no advantage to gain by staking a claim in the world/group/society they inhabit. They just conform basically. They already have what they need to survive with their bodies and vaginas. So it`s enough to just sit and wait for someone to come along and reproduce with them. In fact taking risks would be contrary to their survival.

Men on the other hand must risk in order to survive, and hence have evolved more capacity to think abstractly and creatively, and also other traits like aggression, sense of humour, higher intelligence, and so on. Even disgust with homosexuality. (women have less to lose from playing around with that I guess) This is indeed part of the function of gender in a biological context. Men have and are still being forced through a tighter bottle neck than women so to speak. So we are for that very reason better than women, but women have it much easier when it comes to reproduction. (And yet they manage to fuck it up these days.)

[MikeS]

(11-07-2018 06:59 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

...

Women mostly don't like to debate or argue, because they don't really have convictions like men do. They don't feel strongly about anything much unless it affects them, whereas men pride themselves on standing for principles. It seems that women don't have principles or convictions...

We might be spending time with different types of women (I like the ones who can hold up their end of a conversation, although that certainly can come with its own set of issues for relationships), but about the only thing I agree with from that is they what they debate, argue and feel reasonably principled about usually has to be something that plays a tangible role in their life, and rarely some of the more abstract topics men tend to enjoy debating. Although I've certainly met more than a few exceptions to the latter.

[Jefferson]

(11-07-2018 06:59 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

Women mostly don't like to debate or argue, because they don't really have convictions like men do. They don't feel strongly about anything much unless it affects them, whereas men pride themselves on standing for principles. It seems that women don't have principles or convictions. Women can say fine and pretend to agree with you but men find it hard because it matters and it's weak to just flop and give in.

Women are amazingly capable of hiding what they really think or feel. A woman can go for years pretending to fine with a certain situation while secretly hating it. Men don't have that kind of patience. In fact it's not even a matter of patience because men have clear ideas about what they want and they have the power to influence situations and people, and so there's no need to tolerate something if you can change it.

Also they don't actually know what they're attracted to. Whether a girl likes you or not can depend on any number of things in that precise moment. You can be a perfectly normal guy and be rejected by a girl for no particular reason at all.

Those are just some thoughts to get the discussion started. This is something that I think about often.

It's much worse than that, women, wait for it, may not have the kind of depth of feelings we do. Nietzsche said woman is not deep, she is shallow.

[Vladimir Poontang]

(11-07-2018 07:46 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  

(11-07-2018 06:59 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

Women mostly don't like to debate or argue, because they don't really have convictions like men do. They don't feel strongly about anything much unless it affects them, whereas men pride themselves on standing for principles. It seems that women don't have principles or convictions. Women can say fine and pretend to agree with you but men find it hard because it matters and it's weak to just flop and give in.

Women are amazingly capable of hiding what they really think or feel. A woman can go for years pretending to fine with a certain situation while secretly hating it. Men don't have that kind of patience. In fact it's not even a matter of patience because men have clear ideas about what they want and they have the power to influence situations and people, and so there's no need to tolerate something if you can change it.

Also they don't actually know what they're attracted to. Whether a girl likes you or not can depend on any number of things in that precise moment. You can be a perfectly normal guy and be rejected by a girl for no particular reason at all.

Those are just some thoughts to get the discussion started. This is something that I think about often.

It's much worse than that, women, wait for it, may not have the kind of depth of feelings we do. Nietzsche said woman is not deep, she is shallow.

Did Nietzche write a book about women?

[mr-ed209]

Women aren't judged to lose value when they submit to others, if anything they gain value in doing so. The girl acting dumb or asking some dude they wanna bone for 'help' with an easy task. They will manipulate their own character to best suit what they think other people want. Thats why girls seem to dress up in different personas throughout life; usually influenced by whatever narrative of guy they feel hot for in a given environment. 'They don't want to win, they want a winner' - so they adapt behaviour to be complementary to what the 'winner' wants.

While women may be the choosers, its up to men to set the standard - because women don't know what they're attracted to. Because fundamentally they don't know what it takes to be a successful man. For men to influence others they either must do so by force, logic or competency. Men work hard to earn their value and must adopt fixed principles to be successful because we deal with 'the real world' - AKA competition from other men.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

This is a great question.

I think the answer derives from biology and we should try looking at it through that lens. JohnnyVee already covered the sociological elements.

I'm going to focus on sexual fluidity here because I think all of women's fluidity stems from that. Sex tends to be the basis of a lot of what we do.

Physically speaking, humans come out of women's bodies. This is so self-evident that it's easy to miss. But it marks THE big difference between women and men.

The physicality of being able to birth another human means women are "closer" to humans per se. They breastfeed both baby girls and baby boys.

If they were biologically more like men and disgusted by touching people of the same sex, they'd be too grossed-out to get that close to baby girls (or have their vaginas splayed open during childbirth), so a level of "acceptance" (or lack of disgust) is more within their nature.

Conversely, men's mainframe is basically "ejaculate, gather resources, and protect others." There's less of a connection with humans and more connection with the outside world.

This probably also plays into why people in general are turned off by men being gay but like it when women go lesbian. Men with other men signifies they're not doing their biological job (i.e. not being men). But when it comes to women being with other women, that somehow marks them as more female. (I'm talking about fluid straight women who experiment, not the ball-busting Home Depot-type dykes.)

As I grow older, I am more and more coming to the conclusion that most of what we are is biological than environment-based. But you need the perspective of age to come to this conclusion.

You need to be 40 to realize your brother is exactly the same baseball-obsessed jock he was in primary school, only bigger. No one "shaped" him. He was born the jock. Or that you cousin is the same gay kid he was in first grade when he inexplicably wanted to help the old Italian aunts in the kitchen. No one shaped him either. He sang along with Broadway musicals from birth, practically. (These are example drawn from my real life that also show how men tend to be less fluid and more fixed.)

Social pressures can tip people, especially women, one way or the other. But when it comes to their fluidity, my opinion is that it's built into women's mainframe for a reason.

[CynicalContrarian]

Then add in that there are more 'safety nets' for woman today. Despite their constant nagging.

Welfare, pensions, divorce law / alimony etc.

If they 'feel' they can simply flop from one situation to another & someone is bound to provide for them because - vagina.
Doubtful they'll be stoic in anything until a grave threat presents itself.

(11-07-2018 07:41 PM)MikeS Wrote:  

We might be spending time with different types of women (I like the ones who can hold up their end of a conversation, although that certainly can come with its own set of issues for relationships), but about the only thing I agree with from that is they what they debate, argue and feel reasonably principled about usually has to be something that plays a tangible role in their life, and rarely some of the more abstract topics men tend to enjoy debating. Although I've certainly met more than a few exceptions to the latter.

Women do operate from a very, very self-centered (if not outright selfish) mindset.
Tell a British female friend / colleague that all Canadian women are X, & if her response is - "But I'm not like that!".
You know you have a very self-centric individual on your hands.
British chicks not equating to Canadian chicks after-all.

[Vladimir Poontang]

(11-07-2018 08:26 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

Then add in that there are more 'safety nets' for woman today. Despite their constant nagging.

Welfare, pensions, divorce law / alimony etc.

If they 'feel' they can simply flop from one situation to another & someone is bound to provide for them because - vagina.
Doubtful they'll be stoic in anything until a grave threat presents itself.

(11-07-2018 07:41 PM)MikeS Wrote:  

We might be spending time with different types of women (I like the ones who can hold up their end of a conversation, although that certainly can come with its own set of issues for relationships), but about the only thing I agree with from that is they what they debate, argue and feel reasonably principled about usually has to be something that plays a tangible role in their life, and rarely some of the more abstract topics men tend to enjoy debating. Although I've certainly met more than a few exceptions to the latter.

Women do operate from a very, very self-centered (if not outright selfish) mindset.
Tell a British female friend / colleague that all Canadian women are X, & if her response is - "But I'm not like that!".
You know you have a very self-centric individual on your hands.
British chicks not equating to Canadian chicks after-all.

I'm sure most of us have noticed that when discussing an issue, women will primarily talk about their own experience. "Well I don't know any women who do that", "Well I've never done that", "Well not all (aka not me) women". They find it hard to discuss a topic in its abstract form. I'm starting to think that they do really genuinely see things in those terms (I guess I used to think they were being facetious). If it doesn't affect or involve them, then it isn't real. It's meaningless, like when you have a cat or a dog and you point to something, they'll just look at your hand because that's what's in front of them.

Women make good lawyers not because they care about principles, but because their advanced rationalizing part of their little brains can use rules to play chess. Women are certainly intelligent, but not in a noble way. They love going on about how they must have their voices heard, when theirs are the only voices heard ad nauseam. I don't know how that last bit is relevant but I felt that it was when I typed it. Oh yeah I remember now, I was making the point that with women it's all me, me, me.

[Jefferson]

He wrote extensively about women in many of his books, in Ecce Homo for example.

"Women are considered deep - why? Because one can never discover any bottom to them. Women are not even shallow."

"What inspires respect for woman, and often enough even fear, is her nature, which is more “natural” than man’s, the genuine, cunning suppleness of a beast of prey, the tiger’s claw under the glove, the naiveté of her egoism, her uneducability and inner wildness, the incomprehensibility, scope, and movement of her desires and virtues."

Then there is the famous "Though goest to woman? Do not forget thy whip"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_...s_on_women

[Flux]

When you have value and everyone seems to want you, you can afford to be fickle, and enjoy keeping everyone on hold.

I do it all the time, it's quite fun. You want to keep women from getting away, without letting them come too close.

It's the only fun one can have with these broken women, otherwise it's boring.

I suppose women do the same thing with thirsty men.

As far as them not having a fixed personality? Women are not confrontational, and prefer to act to keep the peace. They can't afford to have character because they need other people too much; they depend on their social circles for their well being. It's all in the brain: women's brains are sensitive to emotional trauma, and overall weaker.

It's pretty easy to hurt a woman.

[The Father]

Most things in life are binary: There are two of them, and one complements the other. Nature is ruthlessly efficient; there would be no need to have two identical sexes with the same traits, as one would be redundant. There is no need (or benefit) to having two logical, steady, constant sexes. So you get one logical, steady sex and one sex whose minds are built from a completely different blueprint.

[Rocha]

It's to facilitate penetration.

[Trumps Intern]

I tend to look at these things via the evolutionary lens. First, women have the most important responsibilities of bearing children and raising them within a tribe. Second, women are physically weak. Based on these factors, women must be wary about offending the tribe. They succumb to group-think and social pressure. This is because any social death (and banishment) spelled certain doom for the woman banished, who relied on her male counterparts for survival and protection. This is evidenced biologically in higher estrogen and oxytocin levels, which tend to foster group-think and out-group hostility.

Precisely for this reason, their values seem to "shift" or be "fluid." The truth is, their "values" are likely whatever the prevailing normative values of the tribe are. It is an evolutionarily adaptive response to conform, for women.

Men, on the other hand, can survive alone or in a small group. Also, there are huge gains for a man who is willing to risk being a social-outcast in order to gain dominance within the tribe. Sure, defeat might mean being banished, but victory would mean more power and leadership within the group. Hence the greater testosterone levels.

Finally, just to throw in some theology here because I have been thinking of this recently. The appropriate order is God-Man-Woman-Child. Man is closer to God than woman and has the capacity for greater "spirit." Women are less capable of great spirit. This is again necessity, because spirit draws you away from earth, and women must be as close to the earth, and to their biology, as possible, in order to enable reproduction. The man can exist in his thoughts, goals, dreams, etc. and the woman will always have to force him back to reality. The woman is the limiting creature of mans mind.

For men, the ultimate goal is to become oneself. For women, it is to lose oneself. A selfless woman (either devoting herself to husband/family or to God, i.e. as a wife or as nun) is a beautiful woman.

[Vladimir Poontang]

It's amazing how it is part of a woman's nature to be able to go against her nature, due to peer pressure.

[questor70]

(11-07-2018 09:31 PM)Flux Wrote:  

Women are not confrontational, and prefer to act to keep the peace.

Um, sorry to break it to you, but that ship has sailed.

[Dalaran1991]

Is it necessarily a bad thing?

I would be bore to death if I'm with a girl who is as upstanding as titanium column and is 100% predictable. If I want someone dependable like that I'll go to my best buddies. But a girl to fuck and have fun with? Let her have some fun.

And heh, saying men are dependable is pure science-fiction. I know tons of guys who are bitchier and more moody than a whore on her period.

It's part of the whole femininity package, the tragedy is that the current time has twisted it into something despicable.

[General Stalin]

This is a pretty common sense answer if you think of it from a biological standpoint.

Women have almost zero biological reason to be bold, charismatic, assertive, or heavily character defined. Mostly because men don't find these traits particularly attractive in females. We like women that have a pleasing and attractive body and face, and we like women that are kind, nurturing, helpful, and submissive. Women like men that are bold, confident, strong, charismatic, etc. Women also have a lot of estrogen where men have a lot of testosterone which has a huge factor in governing this behavior.

The only reason men and women stray from these archetypes is social conditioning.

[Oak]

They can't afford to be ostracized from the tribe.

We all have female ancestors who bred, and had loving relationships with men who killed their partners, male children, fathers and male relatives. Often right in front of their very eyes. They then had to adapt to the customs and habits of the new tribe. The one's who did not failed to reproduce. Every women you meet is capable of this.

They're leaves in the wind.

Sometimes I wonder if we should really say women have 'beliefs' when it comes to things like politics and culture since the majority tend to just agree with what's socially acceptable, rather than make a rational decision.

[Vladimir Poontang]

(11-08-2018 01:21 PM)Oak Wrote:  

Sometimes I wonder if we should really say women have 'beliefs'

They do. They believe many things, one after another.

[EndsExpect]

(11-07-2018 07:24 PM)Johnnyvee Wrote:  

It`s mostly about sexual selection I think. Women do the selecting, and they do know what they want, although they`re not necessarily consciously aware of it. They go on instinct mostly. (hence shit test etc.)

This idea that women choose husbands/sexual partners and that's the way its always been is not correct in my opinion.

Most cultures throughout history and I think we can see this also in hunter gatherer societies... women married the man her father told her to marry. If she slept with other guys it was either at her husbands request or she was very sneaky about it because getting caught was a HUGE problem. There was no alimony or divorce rape.

I mean here is the thing. If women were biologically capable of picking good men... then why do the suck so hard at it? I spent a good time joking about this with a female friend who is pushing 40 and is regretting not "settling". I told her that it's only settling to her because she is constantly attracted to complete losers.

Listen... women suck at picking long term mates. Indian people know this... and thats why they have some of the best family structures. Somehow in the West we let women talk us into getting rid of these traditions... and thats the root cause of most of our social dysfunction.

[questor70]

(11-11-2018 01:38 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

women married the man her father told her to marry.

Not going far enough back. Humans evolved before there was anything resembling the institution of marriage and before there was enough semblance of language for a parent to be able to tell his progeny what to do.

(11-11-2018 01:38 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

I mean here is the thing. If women were biologically capable of picking good men...

When women say they are looking for good men they are saying they are seeking happiness. Evolutions selects for genetic strength. It doesn't give a rat's ass about happiness. This is why game exists at all, because tingles are evolution's way of coaxing women into sexual situations that their rational mind would otherwise prevent. It's the rational mind that is busy wondering where the good men have gone or banging out "no hookups" in their Tinder profile. This is why women are so neurotic. They are of two minds, the reptilian brain and the higher order brain (aka the hamster).

[greekgod]

Natural law and primarily the concept of form to function.

Why does a cheetah have a ridiculously long, strong bushy tail? To be used as a rudder for more turning power and agility when it's chasing an antelope at 55 MPH. The form provides the function.

Why does fluidity benefit women? Because fluidity is a codeword for receptiveness and receptive is what they physically are in order reproduce. I don't think a diagram of how they're receptive is necessary, you should catch my drift.

It's incredibly simple at 10,000 feet while being incredibly confusing and complex up close.

Form to function, read up on it and the whole word makes more sense.

[SlickyBoy]

It's a survival mechanism, nothing more. They need to be fluid for when their very existence depends upon them being able to mate switch. Consider this the next time you notice how few homeless women there are in your city versus men, or how few sugar mamas there are versus sugar daddies.

Being fluid is yet another way to describe their habit of adapting and adjusting when circumstances change, and doing so in the most effective way they can, given their innate abilities.

Village gets overrun with barbarians and can't escape? Well, can't fight 'em, better learn to blow 'em - maybe they won't kill your children if you're useful enough. Women have been doing this one way or another for millennia and they're not about to stop, regardless of current political or religious trends.