[rkIE]

(10-10-2015 05:13 PM)Lucky Wrote:  

Still on the fence about this book.

There's something odd about guys who seemingly become "reformed." Tucker Max also went through something like this-- crisis, disillusionment, therapy, monogamy. These guys fuck a ton of women then tell people it's not that great and that relationships are awesome.

I agree, it seems really inauthentic when someone who spends years at peak success in Game to suddenly say "It's a terrible place to be".

Against the advice of this forum I picked up the audiobook of 'Mate', and it's incredibly condescending and hypocritical coming from Tucker. The academic co-author reads it, so hearing him wax incredibly condescending with his nasal academic tones is difficult to stand. Every time I try to listen to it I get annoyed, but I'm slowly suffering through it.

I'll read this book as soon as I can illegally download it (not making the mistake of paying for shit like this again). I don't doubt that it will provide an interesting perspective and good writing, at the very least. The key is having a sense of discernment, and being able to decide for yourself what is true and discard anything that's clearly bullshit.

[Wutang]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/...book-truth

"After its release in 2005, The Game spent a month on the New York Times’ bestseller list. Two years later, and with apparent reluctance, Strauss published a sequel. (First sentence: “I didn’t want to write this book.”) He attended conferences and signings. He endorsed a Game board game. He kept on spending, by his reckoning, “thousands of hours, thousands of dollars” in bars – preying. It was a lifestyle, Strauss says, that fast became “a recipe for self-hatred”.

Around 2010, he met and fell in love with a Mexican-born model named Ingrid De La O. She was perfect, Strauss thought, their relationship together “the best I’d ever had”. Yet he found he couldn’t stop pursuing other women and cheating on Ingrid. When she learned about the cruellest of his infidelities (her best friend, a church car park), Ingrid agreed to forgive Strauss only on the condition he be treated for sex addiction. So he entered rehab for three months. Here his problems really began.

By opening up his psyche to trained therapists for the first time, Strauss learned he had quite an assortment of mental and emotional conditions. In short order, he was diagnosed with anxiety syndrome, depressive disorder, two forms of sexual disorder and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. “It was like a hammer hitting me on the head,” he says. “I really thought I was normal.”

[Spider]

(10-10-2015 05:13 PM)Lucky Wrote:  

Still on the fence about this book.

There's something odd about guys who seemingly become "reformed." Tucker Max also went through something like this-- crisis, disillusionment, therapy, monogamy. These guys fuck a ton of women then tell people it's not that great and that relationships are awesome.

I read The Game and found it hard to put down it was so entertaining, so if this gets some good reviews online and from you guys I will probably get myself a copy.

I do find it weird though going from complete player to fully monogamous. I can't imagine making the transition myself, but I can understand why some guys like Neil may make it.

It's one thing to have a balanced identity; work, friends, family, hobbies, sports etc. but it seems guys like Neil lived and breathed game and that's all their lives were made up of. They become addicted to seeing how successful they can be pulling girls and getting pussy.

No addiction is healthy so if you take it overboard I can see why settling down into a monogamous relationship (even if it isn't the right time) might seem like a good decision. I'm eager to hear how it reads - Amazon says it is will be released the 13th.

At least he married a model...

[Wutang]

I think the drive towards monogamy is a pull many guys, even players feel a pull towards once they hit a certain age. Even Roosh has been effected by it in the last few years even while he still continues the player lifestyle. That conflict is something that's been influencing his writings as well as some of his posts as of late.

[Suits]

I'm reading the new book this weekend and it's definitely far from red-pill. It would even be stretch to call it purple pill.

For example, this quote: "There’s a disparity between the masculine desire for sex, which tends to be carnal and ego based, and the feminine desire for sex, which can be more emotional and spiritual."

That being said, the book is predictably well written and a definite page-turner. There is a lot of interesting material that would be educational to the red-pill man. I'm certainly enjoying it.

[Cr33pin]

My buddy just read this and was raving about it and sent me a pdf of it.... Said it fucked with his head.

I'm not sure I want my head fucked with at this point in my life.

[redbeard]

I'm looking forward to seeing RVF Members' reviews.

The book is picking up attention, even on Grantland:

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectu...-new-book/

[WestIndianArchie]

Three chapters in.

Love his style, no pun intended

The most telling thing that I've read is that a fan sees him at the airport, says he learned the game, that's how he met his wife. And he was a soldier coming back from war, and they were about to have a baby.

Neil thinks "how does this guy have his life figured out". (This is a paraphrase, the real one might lead to a different conclusion)

I don't know if he's going to end up in a different place, but when I've met young soldiers, having a war bride and baby on the way is not having one's life figured out. Often it's quite the opposite.

Most soldiers get married to the chick they were poking right before deployment, and knock her up on leave. The absence of him, stress of war fighting, a baby and a marriage creates a horrible mix for many people. These pairings don't always last, and if the parties could do it over, they'd make different choices. Hindsight.....

If Style doesn't know this, I'm wondering about his life experiences from jump. More likely Style wants to be in that ideal relationship and just overlays his desires on someone else's reality. I honestly see that with a lot of guys here, rarely with the guys who have kids or who have been married.

There's some mention of discovering a vhs tape with his father on it, during a porn quest, and some guilt about banging out his current gf's good friend six hours before introducing the gf to his parents.

I have more than a suspicion about where this is going (thematically, his actual story we already know), but based on the first few chapters how it ends isn't the point. It's going to be the nuggets of human insight that ring true in the reader's own life.

That's often the real proposition of any good writing, giving the reader words to articulate something they only felt before but could not explain much less express.

WIA

[Satoshi]

I'm 15% in and I think it's a good read. Especially for me since I can relate. I want to have serious relationships but still be able to fuck other girls.

THE MALE DILEMMA
1. Sex is great.
2. Relationships are great.
3. Relationships grows over time.
4. Sex gets old over time.
5. So does she.
6. Thus the problem.

[Chase]

I’ve been listening to Neil’s book „The Truth“. I liked it and it also left me with a feeling of dissatisfaction.

I bought the book hoping to get some perspective on the player’s journey when you’re getting older. Being in my mid-thirties now, I feel some weariness and chasing new woman isn’t that alluring any more as it used to be.

The description of his journey goes from being tired of the game, settling down with his girlfriend Ingrid, longing for adventure again, breaking up, going through all kinds of sexual escapades, therapy sessions and efforts to find happiness, eventually coming back to a monogamous relationship and marriage.

They book is sincere, well written, and it gave me inspiration and insights. However, Neil comes across to me like a former drug addict lecturing kids to stay away from drugs only after having indulged in the pleasures way too long. Like the capitalist claiming that money doesn’t buy you happiness only after filling his pockets with loads of cash. Like the former model who turns into an animal rights activist only after her beauty fades away and after she ceases to get male attention.

Is this me just being jealous? As a writer with some fame and good connections in the pop culture, music and entertainment business, Neil has many options most men don’t have.

Neil makes a point throughout the book being open and honest. His insights from therapy are valuable to hear. You must work through your childhood drama; otherwise it will always find a way to fuck you up. I feel he is giving an honest account of his life, yet he always keeps it politically correct. It just feels like he is missing an essential point by not taking into consideration the brutal dynamics of “market value”.

Compare this to Michel Houllebeq who brilliantly dissects those realities in his books (a pessimistic view, unfortunately). Basically: The beautiful people fuck and have fun; the ugly ones die alone and must console themselves with porn. And that is the whole point of game. To bridge this gap. Not only if you are an ugly fucker.

Develop yourself as a man, have integrity, build friendships, built a business if you want, and it will all turn out well? The challenge I see is this: Use game to your advantage and stay in a resourceful, positive state. Stay away from bitter and cynical thoughts, but have a healthy respect for reality.

[Luther]

Excellent and wise comment, Chase.

[PainPositive]

Did anyone else read this?

It seems that many guys here are now settling down, getting married, or are in a relationship.

I'd like to know your thoughts on the book.

He seems to be doing okay. I wish him the best but wanna know if he's gone full PC reformed condescending douchebag like many guys do.

At least Neil married a hot girl.

Tucker Max Married a 6. (On a good day with makeup and photoshoot)

Tuckers wife



Neil's wife (WB)



Respect.

[LeoneVolpe]

I picked up a copy of Neil Strauss' book "The Game" when it first came out. Perhaps I was too young to fully appreciate it at the time, but I remember being disappointed with it. It wasn't that the book was poorly written or anything like that, I was just looking for more of a game manual, like what Erik Von Markovik later released in "The Mystery Method." Maybe I should give it another try now that I'm older and have a different expectation for the book.

I imagine I should probably re-read "The Game" before reading Strauss' new book, which although I am curious about, I am a little unnerved by some of the blue pill stuff mentioned in previous posts on this thread. Before I can do that, I've still got several other books in my queue I'll have to cut through first.

[Nascimento]

I'd like to hear WIA's final impressions on this book.

[weambulance]

(02-24-2015 12:30 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

He's an excellent writer of proven worldwide mass popularity, with I think at least two NYT bestsellers. Another level of accomplishment.

Becoming a NYT best-selling author is like being a fucking NFL quarterback or astronaut. I feel there is usually VERY much to learn about execution from someone who achieves this level of success at ANYTHING.

I realize this is a fairly old comment but it must come from such a fundamental misunderstanding of how the NYT bestseller list (and similar lists) works that I have to address it.

Being on the list doesn't mean you're ultra successful, and not being on the list is not at all indicative of failure. The key points are that the list is curated, and the list is based on sales velocity, with no consideration at all of total sales.

1. Curation. If they don't like what you wrote (genre, content), how you published it (traditional vs indie), etc, they'll simply leave it off the list. Independent authors with extremely high sales velocity have been left off the list plenty of times. There's a fair degree of snobbishness involved.

2. Sales velocity is the metric used to determine which of the "approved" books get on the list. Sales velocity is how many sales you make in a certain period of time, usually a week. It doesn't take into account total sales at all. So to use an extreme example, you could sell 20,000 copies in the launch week and never sell another copy of the book, but make it onto the list. If you sold 1000 copies a week for five years you would never make it onto the list, despite selling 13x more books than the 20k copy flameout.

Because it's based on sales velocity, there are ways to manipulate the list once you're established. You can arrange preorders or get legions of fans to buy all at once (nothing wrong with that), and authors have even been known to buy thousands of copies of their own books in launch week to get on bestseller lists (lame). And for various reasons--more lists, more available titles--the actual sales velocity you need to achieve to make the NYT list is a smallish fraction of what it was 20 years ago.

Bestseller lists are a mediocre-to-poor indicator of writing career success and certainly a poor indicator of the quality of the books in question. I would never buy a book just because it was on a bestseller list, and I would never assume a writer knows what he's doing (let alone is some kind of expert) just because he made a list once. Being a bestselling author means about as much as having won literary awards these days, in my opinion. It's just something to brag about over drinks, and use in advertising from time to time.

-----

I don't have much to say about Neil Strauss. I enjoyed his Emergency book, even though big chunks of it were obsolescent by the time it was published. I haven't read anything else he wrote, but he seemed an entertaining writer. However, seeing how this book is $18 and I see The Game is $28, both for the ebook versions, there's no fucking way I'm going to buy either one. Maybe I'll get used copies someday if they're a decent price.

[Praetor Lupus]

Without The Game I am still sitting alone in the same place I have been for the past 30 years, being pushed around, dressing like a slob and being mystified by the nature of women.

For me, it was the red pill. Everything suddenly made sense. If I wasn't making immediate gains in my success, I at least finally understood human nature.

I'm a principles man first and foremost, so I was looking at why what Strauss did worked, rather than just going out dressed as a freak and expecting results. And as he says himself, he dropped the wild costumes quickly and was able to excel without them.

In this age, I truly believe that The Game could be one of the most important books of our time.

But as for this new release?

Meh.

[Paracelsus]

(11-25-2016 10:07 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

(02-24-2015 12:30 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

He's an excellent writer of proven worldwide mass popularity, with I think at least two NYT bestsellers. Another level of accomplishment.

Becoming a NYT best-selling author is like being a fucking NFL quarterback or astronaut. I feel there is usually VERY much to learn about execution from someone who achieves this level of success at ANYTHING.

I realize this is a fairly old comment but it must come from such a fundamental misunderstanding of how the NYT bestseller list (and similar lists) works that I have to address it.

Being on the list doesn't mean you're ultra successful, and not being on the list is not at all indicative of failure. The key points are that the list is curated, and the list is based on sales velocity, with no consideration at all of total sales.

1. Curation. If they don't like what you wrote (genre, content), how you published it (traditional vs indie), etc, they'll simply leave it off the list. Independent authors with extremely high sales velocity have been left off the list plenty of times. There's a fair degree of snobbishness involved.

2. Sales velocity is the metric used to determine which of the "approved" books get on the list. Sales velocity is how many sales you make in a certain period of time, usually a week. It doesn't take into account total sales at all. So to use an extreme example, you could sell 20,000 copies in the launch week and never sell another copy of the book, but make it onto the list. If you sold 1000 copies a week for five years you would never make it onto the list, despite selling 13x more books than the 20k copy flameout.

Because it's based on sales velocity, there are ways to manipulate the list once you're established. You can arrange preorders or get legions of fans to buy all at once (nothing wrong with that), and authors have even been known to buy thousands of copies of their own books in launch week to get on bestseller lists (lame). And for various reasons--more lists, more available titles--the actual sales velocity you need to achieve to make the NYT list is a smallish fraction of what it was 20 years ago.

Added to this, it's perfectly possible to buy your way onto the NYT list, as weambulance says. It's expensive, but possible. And for celebrities like Amy Schumer, who was paid several million for her books, I can see this being a part of the publisher's advertising expenses to desperately try and recoup some of those losses.

[weambulance]

To talk about the bestseller thing again, Milo is putting out a book in March 2017. In the 15 seconds of research I did, I see he supposedly got a $250,000 advance.

It's already sold so many preorders that it's guaranteed to be a bestseller. It's in the top 100 books on Amazon right now.

The book probably isn't even written yet.

Milo could literally send out a box full of human shit with a pamphlet on common STDs in it to everyone who ordered the book and he'd still be a bestselling author.

What can we actually learn from Milo's success, though? His success is not replicable. A million gay guys with fancy hair could try the same thing and meet nothing but failure. All I see here is "If you're famous and put out a book, it'll be an instant bestseller." Well, I already knew that.

I'm surprised he's going with a traditional publisher. Unless he negotiated a really exceptional deal, he's either gambling that the advance won't earn out or he's throwing away a lot of money.

Or maybe he's doing it because it's a lot easier for a traditionally published book to make it onto bestseller lists.

[slppryslp]

(02-23-2015 02:31 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

https://www.neilstrauss.com/neil/title

Judging by the description under the title, it will be about relationship game.


It's a catchy title & cover. But what I dislike about the title choice here, is it suggests The Game was about lying. And to quote the man himself, "It's not lying. It's flirting".

Personally, I might give it a download. Just hoping it won't be a "bad boy reformed by an honest woman" hollywood trope. Is this book interesting to the RvF?

Game is all about the proper mindset that a man needs to succeed with women and the world. And like many things often you have to fake it to make it. Its not lying to try to be a better person(rather than being a person solely defined by what you have done and where you come from). Anyways after having seen and read enough about Neil, I think much of what he does is overhyped by himself, so it must be taken with more than a grain of salt. I had a friend who had a personal experience with the guy (he won a contest to be able to write a book) and ended up getting burned by Neil. He thinks part of it was because he had been flirting with Neils gf at a party, when he didnt know it was the gf. Sound like a secure pinnacle of trustworthiness and self confidence?

[flaghunter]

Just finished it - some points he raises got me thinking such as why love should be exclusive and that a relationship should be measured by it's depth and not it's length. It hasn't made me want to settle down and become monogamous though.

Can somebody recommend where can I find unfiltered and unbiased discussion on this book?