[sauron]

The past few months I've been approaching like there's no tomorrow. I am able to deal effectively with approach anxiety using the three second rule. I've had some great moment but the past few weeks I've been getting stuck at keeping the opening convo going past the 10 min mark. In the past, its not something I consciously had to think about but now its my major sticking point. I feel like once I hit the 10 min mark every question I ask feels forced and all my conversations just feel unnatural and my target starts withdrawing. Anybody have good tips on how to keep convo going in a club/party setting? I really want to avoid getting to a point where I have to start asking convo killers like "where are you from? where do you work? etc".
I don't face this problem much in daygame as there is usually stuff happening in the street or cool books in the bookshop to talk about.

[Sooth]

Instead of spending all you free time approaching go do something interesting that you can talk about later.

I recently took a week off and drove 1000km visiting all the typical tourist attractions around two major cities close to where I'm currently living. Come up with a small story about each location. I stayed in a different air bnb every night and experienced enough in that week to talk for days.

If she hasn't been there, shes heard about it and probably wants to go. Give her tips etc. If that's too much do a weekend or even day trip. Go to a beach or river, take your camera, take some photos. Gives you something to show her in your bedroom.

[firat113]

Look up "conversation threading" and practice it. It boosted my conversational skills so much. I could barely speak for 5 minutes, but now I can't stop once I'm started. Also, make sure to have a DHV story or two ready to get the conversation flowing when it gets stale. DHV story stands for (demonstration of higher value) story. Something interesting that happened to you, a memorable experience you've had. A prepared story you tell which helps with building attraction. For instance I tell about the time when I went on my first tinder date and the girl didn't look like her pictures at all, and the events that followed, and how I am scared to ever do online dating again after being cat fished. It always makes the girls laugh, so it's my go to story.

Conversation Threading looks like this.

Scenario A:
A) So where do you work?
B) In a bakery.
A) Nice, do you also study or just work?
B) I study to be a doctor. I just work on the weekends.
A) Wow. Is it hard?
B) Yeah, it is.

Scenario B:
A) So where do you work?
B) In a bakery.
A) Seriously? How do you stay in such a good shape lol, i would have ate so much cake if i worked there... they would have to fire me.
B) *laughs* it's not so bad, you just have to have a strong willpower. Trying to lose some weight, summer is around the corner, gotta get ready.
A) Tell me about it... But don't even say that word in front of me, there's like three exams to pass first. I have been so lazy this semester. I just want summer vacation already.
B) Haha you poor guy, what do you study?

An actual conversation i had with a girl 2 days ago during day game. Just an example on how conversation threading works. Pick up on important things she says and build further on it. Make her invest. Keep her curiosity up. See if she plays along. Listen carefully, hold eye contact and nod to show you're interested. Get her to do the talking, people love talking about themselves, it makes them feel important. It builds comfort. And comfort + attraction is the recipe for success. Remember non-verbal communication is also very important, your body language signals a lot. Eye contact, facial expression, tone of voice, posture and gesture. A big part of my success is not actually what I say, but how I say it and I think it applies to a lot of people.

“60% of all human communication is nonverbal body language; 30% is your tone, so that means 90% of what you’re saying ain’t coming out of your mouth.”– Alex “Hitch” Hitchens

You see how the conversation switched all of a sudden? She's the one asking the questions now. She's invested. Don't just ask questions, girls don't like to be interviewed, instead assume. For instance, instead of asking her where she's from, tell her "you look like you could be Eastern European, i'd guess Lithuania" it shows you've put thought into her and you don't come out as boring. If she asks your age, don't tell her you're X age. Let her guess. If she asks what you do for a living, don't make up the usual boring story, make up a funny sidetrack story. Tease her.

Don't make the mistake of agreeing with everything she says. Give her opponent. If she loves one kind of music and you hate it, don't be afraid to tell her.

A) Oh god, you're one of those people. I hate that kind of music.
B) Noooo it's really good, people just don't give it a chance.
A) Change my mind about it. I dare you.
B) Alright, so, you have to listen to this song, and tell me what you think. It will change your perspective. It puts me in such a good mood.

She will spend time and energy trying to convince you about something, if she likes you, she wants you to like the same things as she does.

But it's not such a big problem that you can't get past the 10 min mark, usually during day game 5 min is enough to make a connection, if you're vibing she will give you her number within that timeframe. Actually that's what I like about day game, you train yourself to be the most interesting version of yourself within such a short time span. 5 minutes are all you need. Setup a date and then you can go on for longer. You just want to give her the impression that you're a cool guy in the first 5 minutes, and you're not coming off as a creep. If you come off as a cool dude, she will remember you when you say goodbye. And the chance of you picking it up later will be much higher. You must make a good impression in the short time frame you have.

EDIT: I noticed you're talking about night game, not day game. Conversation threading and DHV still applies. But if you can't get past the 10 min mark, get moving, go to another approach in the club and come back to your "target" when you have more things to say. What i do is i stir up a conversation of 5-10 min with a girl or her group, make myself noticed, then go on minding my own business, dancing, having a good time with my friends, etc, and come back later to talk further. It keeps them interested, once you made your presence known. Everything runs smoothly from there. You go from "that random guy" to an interesting guy, there will be curiosity about you, if you make an impression in a short time frame, and especially if she sees you having a good time, and/or with other girls, she will wonder what's up with this guy, am i missing out? When you get back to her, ask her if she wants to dance, if she wants to change venue, if she wants to go somewhere else. It's easier during night game i'd say. And she will be more likely to than if you randomly approach her and bore her with a 15-20 min average conversation.

This post by Ice Man will help you a lot. Less questions, more statements and observations.

(04-17-2018 04:45 AM)Ice Man Wrote:  

I see a lot of talk about questions, which I think is not an ideal way to create a comfort and interest building conversation.

In my experience, a good natural conversation involves very few questions, and only in a peripheral way. Think about how you talk with someone you are comfortable with, an old friend. You are making statements, observations etc, and then the other person volleys back with a related thought. There are very few "What do you think about...?" "Do you like..." type back and forth. The stuff you want to know and share is fleshed out by both of you just talking, not asking questions.

I find girls, everybody really, becomes much more comfortable when you skip all the "where are you from", "you got any siblings", "oh what is your favorite store here" type filler questions. I just start talking, making an observation that I know will likely elicit them to talk more about whatever it is, then I return a thought, back and forth etc. That is how two people who are comfortable talk. If you can "fake it till you make" for a couple minutes you will get this natural back and forth going. Not only is that just good conversation and good for comfort's sake, but it also subconsciously builds intrigue in her, as well as not coming off too interested and needy. It's win-win-win. I have got many girls extremely interested in a short amount of time by doing this, to the point that they have come after me after I walk away to give me their number, because we just had a real familiar and comfortable back and forth and I didn't ask her anything.

Often times I don't even ever ask their name. You ever watch how some dudes approach girls? Yo whats yo name? Just tell me your NAME girl!?, like her name holds the key to her vagina and if you just get her to SAY HER NAME then you are home free.

Forget about her name, forget about where she's going, does she live around here/shop here often/like this store.. these are filler questions and instant tells of your interest anyway.

Try an experiment of just dropping questions altogether. Put yourself in a position (physically and opportunity wise) that you can just start making an observation about something when next to a girl. If you do this correctly without being a weirdo it is a very powerful way to build interest and comfort quickly.

[sauron]

(05-10-2018 05:57 AM)firat113 Wrote:  

Look up "conversation threading" and practice it. It boosted my conversational skills so much. I could barely speak for 5 minutes, but now I can't stop once I'm started. Also, make sure to have a DHV story or two ready to get the conversation flowing when it gets stale. DHV story stands for (demonstration of higher value) story. Something interesting that happened to you, a memorable experience you've had. A prepared story you tell which helps with building attraction. For instance I tell about the time when I went on my first tinder date and the girl didn't look like her pictures at all, and the events that followed, and how I am scared to ever do online dating again after being cat fished. It always makes the girls laugh, so it's my go to story.

Conversation Threading looks like this.

Scenario A:
A) So where do you work?
B) In a bakery.
A) Nice, do you also study or just work?
B) I study to be a doctor. I just work on the weekends.
A) Wow. Is it hard?
B) Yeah, it is.

Scenario B:
A) So where do you work?
B) In a bakery.
A) Seriously? How do you stay in such a good shape lol, i would have ate so much cake if i worked there... they would have to fire me.
B) *laughs* it's not so bad, you just have to have a strong willpower. Trying to lose some weight, summer is around the corner, gotta get ready.
A) Tell me about it... But don't even say that word in front of me, there's like three exams to pass first. I have been so lazy this semester. I just want summer vacation already.
B) Haha you poor guy, what do you study?

An actual conversation i had with a girl 2 days ago during day game. Just an example on how conversation threading works. Pick up on important things she says and build further on it. Make her invest. Keep her curiosity up. See if she plays along. Listen carefully, hold eye contact and nod to show you're interested. Get her to do the talking, people love talking about themselves, it makes them feel important. It builds comfort. And comfort + attraction is the recipe for success. Remember non-verbal communication is also very important, your body language signals a lot. Eye contact, facial expression, tone of voice, posture and gesture. A big part of my success is not actually what I say, but how I say it and I think it applies to a lot of people.

“60% of all human communication is nonverbal body language; 30% is your tone, so that means 90% of what you’re saying ain’t coming out of your mouth.”– Alex “Hitch” Hitchens

You see how the conversation switched all of a sudden? She's the one asking the questions now. She's invested. Don't just ask questions, girls don't like to be interviewed, instead assume. For instance, instead of asking her where she's from, tell her "you look like you could be Eastern European, i'd guess Lithuania" it shows you've put thought into her and you don't come out as boring. If she asks your age, don't tell her you're X age. Let her guess. If she asks what you do for a living, don't make up the usual boring story, make up a funny sidetrack story. Tease her.

Don't make the mistake of agreeing with everything she says. Give her opponent. If she loves one kind of music and you hate it, don't be afraid to tell her.

A) Oh god, you're one of those people. I hate that kind of music.
B) Noooo it's really good, people just don't give it a chance.
A) Change my mind about it. I dare you.
B) Alright, so, you have to listen to this song, and tell me what you think. It will change your perspective. It puts me in such a good mood.

She will spend time and energy trying to convince you about something, if she likes you, she wants you to like the same things as she does.

But it's not such a big problem that you can't get past the 10 min mark, usually during day game 5 min is enough to make a connection, if you're vibing she will give you her number within that timeframe. Actually that's what I like about day game, you train yourself to be the most interesting version of yourself within such a short time span. 5 minutes are all you need. Setup a date and then you can go on for longer. You just want to give her the impression that you're a cool guy in the first 5 minutes, and you're not coming off as a creep. If you come off as a cool dude, she will remember you when you say goodbye. And the chance of you picking it up later will be much higher. You must make a good impression in the short time frame you have.

EDIT: I noticed you're talking about night game, not day game. Conversation threading and DHV still applies. But if you can't get past the 10 min mark, get moving, go to another approach in the club and come back to your "target" when you have more things to say. What i do is i stir up a conversation of 5-10 min with a girl or her group, make myself noticed, then go on minding my own business, dancing, having a good time with my friends, etc, and come back later to talk further. It keeps them interested, once you made your presence known. Everything runs smoothly from there. You go from "that random guy" to an interesting guy, there will be curiosity about you, if you make an impression in a short time frame, and especially if she sees you having a good time, and/or with other girls, she will wonder what's up with this guy, am i missing out? When you get back to her, ask her if she wants to dance, if she wants to change venue, if she wants to go somewhere else. It's easier during night game i'd say. And she will be more likely to than if you randomly approach her and bore her with a 15-20 min average conversation.

This post by Ice Man will help you a lot. Less questions, more statements and observations.

(04-17-2018 04:45 AM)Ice Man Wrote:  

I see a lot of talk about questions, which I think is not an ideal way to create a comfort and interest building conversation.

In my experience, a good natural conversation involves very few questions, and only in a peripheral way. Think about how you talk with someone you are comfortable with, an old friend. You are making statements, observations etc, and then the other person volleys back with a related thought. There are very few "What do you think about...?" "Do you like..." type back and forth. The stuff you want to know and share is fleshed out by both of you just talking, not asking questions.

I find girls, everybody really, becomes much more comfortable when you skip all the "where are you from", "you got any siblings", "oh what is your favorite store here" type filler questions. I just start talking, making an observation that I know will likely elicit them to talk more about whatever it is, then I return a thought, back and forth etc. That is how two people who are comfortable talk. If you can "fake it till you make" for a couple minutes you will get this natural back and forth going. Not only is that just good conversation and good for comfort's sake, but it also subconsciously builds intrigue in her, as well as not coming off too interested and needy. It's win-win-win. I have got many girls extremely interested in a short amount of time by doing this, to the point that they have come after me after I walk away to give me their number, because we just had a real familiar and comfortable back and forth and I didn't ask her anything.

Often times I don't even ever ask their name. You ever watch how some dudes approach girls? Yo whats yo name? Just tell me your NAME girl!?, like her name holds the key to her vagina and if you just get her to SAY HER NAME then you are home free.

Forget about her name, forget about where she's going, does she live around here/shop here often/like this store.. these are filler questions and instant tells of your interest anyway.

Try an experiment of just dropping questions altogether. Put yourself in a position (physically and opportunity wise) that you can just start making an observation about something when next to a girl. If you do this correctly without being a weirdo it is a very powerful way to build interest and comfort quickly.

Very solid advice. Thanks

[AceP]

@OP may I ask where you are gaming at bro?

I've read a PUA book before, its an interesting read. The guy advocates trying to find women who are somewhat-similar to you. You can ask the general "what are some of your interests" and talk about it. The rule of thumb is you can make a long- convo if you're talking about something you love or have interest in too.

And for nightgame I believe the vibe is different. You need to tease more in nightgame compared to day/social game

[JekyllAndHyde]

(05-15-2018 03:20 PM)AceP Wrote:  

@OP may I ask where you are gaming at bro?

I've read a PUA book before, its an interesting read. The guy advocates trying to find women who are somewhat-similar to you. You can ask the general "what are some of your interests" and talk about it. The rule of thumb is you can make a long- convo if you're talking about something you love or have interest in too.

And for nightgame I believe the vibe is different. You need to tease more in nightgame compared to day/social game

I think so too.
I usually think of the most random things. Then I guess what she does and poke some fun or drama at it and hopefully relate to it and raise her curiosity. For example:
"You're a nurse? Don't you deal with old perverts lying in bed all day? I admit I did want to be a nurse but then I became an engineer."
She would have to get talking to prove there really aren't always seedy old guys leering at her. Then that would pique her curiosity about my choice in career so the ball is in her court.

At the end of the day it relies me on thinking fast.

I do daytime approaches in my spare time and my hobbies are very intriguing to her sometimes as a backup as I don't want to reveal too much about myself upfront before a date.

[AceP]

(05-16-2018 07:21 AM)JekyllAndHyde Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 03:20 PM)AceP Wrote:  

@OP may I ask where you are gaming at bro?

I've read a PUA book before, its an interesting read. The guy advocates trying to find women who are somewhat-similar to you. You can ask the general "what are some of your interests" and talk about it. The rule of thumb is you can make a long- convo if you're talking about something you love or have interest in too.

And for nightgame I believe the vibe is different. You need to tease more in nightgame compared to day/social game

I think so too.
I usually think of the most random things. Then I guess what she does and poke some fun or drama at it and hopefully relate to it and raise her curiosity. For example:
"You're a nurse? Don't you deal with old perverts lying in bed all day? I admit I did want to be a nurse but then I became an engineer."
She would have to get talking to prove there really aren't always seedy old guys leering at her. Then that would pique her curiosity about my choice in career so the ball is in her court.

At the end of the day it relies me on thinking fast.

I do daytime approaches in my spare time and my hobbies are very intriguing to her sometimes as a backup as I don't want to reveal too much about myself upfront before a date.

That's a good observation line + with some tease. If you can pull this sort of teases off you'll be a master flirt in no-time. Altho for starter, just keep a normal conversation going as you would with friends and keep your nerves. Usually for beginners its not that you're an un-interesting guy, its just that the nerves gets in the way of you carrying out your speech.

If you can do observation and teases (also called Stacking and vibing) great. But for starters just do whatever you're comfortable doing when talking to cold-approach girls