[The Beast1]

I get a kick out of our players in the NFL who are so clear HGH/Roid use, it makes me laugh.

However, I'm of the belief that sports, especially professional ones, are purely entertainment. And as such, I want to be entertained with absolutely mind-blowing performances by the players.

So when it comes to performance-enhancing drugs, I say why not? Let players dope and become guinea pigs for an otherwise nascent area of medical study that may help improve the lives of so many human beings.

I bet if two sports leagues came out, with one allowing performance-enhancing drugs and the other not allowing them, we would see more people flock to the one where it's allowed. Why? Because more crazy records, plays, and feats of "enhanced" human ability would take place and that is what people want.

Personally, I think performance enhancing drugs should be on the table for a consenting adult to partake in. The keyword here is "adult". People under the age of 18, probably up to 25 should not be permitted on the basis that one shouldn't mess with the endocrine system until the growth plates fuse. After that, by all means, though an endocrinologist should be the ultimate arbiter when this should be done.

What's your take on this?

[Elster]

Can't say I have much of an opinion as most olympic performers are pretty much race horsed bred and doped for the sport (its very common from what a couple mates o mine who were personal Trainers for athletes to dope up on "not allowed in competition but not necessarily illegal" until a year or two before the actual competition to arrive detoxed.

But on the vein of the entertainment concept you bring up, I am reminded of this fine french movie.
If you can get a version with subtitles or you are good with french I'd reccomend it if only for the brutal scenes

[kaotic]

I mean let's be real, we're already seeing tons of players in all sorts of sports in some sort of gear.

Some are just better at hiding it than others.

NFL doesn't give a shit, while MLB clutches it's pearls.

It's a very open secret and owners and officials look the other way.

[The Beast1]

(02-05-2018 02:24 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

NFL doesn't give a shit, while MLB clutches it's pearls.

Nothing infuriated me more than the congressional hearings on steroid use.

Those feckless do-nothings in Washington really had to waste time on such a non-issue?

Steroids would probably make the Nationals a significantly better team.

[Sherman]

"The proper excellence or virtue of man will be the habit or trained faculty that makes a man good and makes him perform his function well.”
-- Aristotle

Doping is wrong at least in the Olympics where when you are comparing the quality of men you are also comparing their habit of training. Shooting up a drug does not make the body better through the virtue of training, but actually weakens the body over the long term. If it is accepted, then you are forcing every athelete to take drugs to be competitive. So, in order to compete you will have to damage your body. The best athletes who don't want to destroy their bodies won't compete.

However, for American football, it fairly represents the gutter values of the degenerate American culture where entertainment is the highest good.

[Razor Beast]

They almost all use. I've talked with former players who have been out of the league long enough that they'll talk about it. Really shouldn't be much of a surprise though. They are still the best athletes in the world regardless of steroid use.

[Cr33pin]

It makes for more entertaining sports

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

Doping is similar to allowing practices known to have high risks of permanent injury, like concussions. If you take it to the extremes, you end up with gladiators. I accept that individuals can choose to do daredevil stunts and get killed, but organized sports should limit risk. Prohibiting PEDs is part of this kind of restraint.

[spokepoker]

I voted yes, with the caveat that I don't watch any sports.
I look at it as entertainment, and the more entertaining it is, the more people will watch it, the more money it generates, and to those putting on the show, more power to them (good thing).
So in my eyes, if it increases the value of that product, do it.

I don't watch sports because it's not entertaining to me personally, I could use that time for what I need to do, instead of watching someone else do it.

[The Beast1]

(02-05-2018 03:30 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

Doping is similar to allowing practices known to have high risks of permanent injury, like concussions. If you take it to the extremes, you end up with gladiators . I accept that individuals can choose to do daredevil stunts and get killed, but organized sports should limit risk. Prohibiting PEDs is part of this kind of restraint.

Derailing my own thread, but I have a bloodlust that is only partially satisfied by MMA.

I would totally be into watching and betting money on a sport where two men duke it out till death.

No rules, no ref. I'm a barbarian savage and i'm only partially ashamed of it

[Rocha]

   

[Sidney Crosby]

The MLB likes to pretend their game is so clean because they are so in love with stats. I don't care about who had the most home runs in 1924, I want to sit down and watch an exciting game, whether it is baseball, NFL, NHL or whatever.

Some of the guys in the NFL are just too huge to not be using PED's, they also need it for recovery. Look at what those guys go through every weekend then they have practice and they are back at it next week. Their bodies get so beat up.

[realologist]

Allow it. Then athletes could be open about their use and take better safety precautions so they doesn't have the negative long-term problems associated with them from jumping on and off and trying to get away with it.

Plus the game will be better. Throughout time athletes have been trying and been getting away with any advantage possible. Anybody that doesn't know or see that hasn't played sports at a high enough level.

[PapayaTapper]

(02-05-2018 03:44 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(02-05-2018 03:30 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

Doping is similar to allowing practices known to have high risks of permanent injury, like concussions. If you take it to the extremes, you end up with gladiators . I accept that individuals can choose to do daredevil stunts and get killed, but organized sports should limit risk. Prohibiting PEDs is part of this kind of restraint.

Derailing my own thread, but I have a bloodlust that is only partially satisfied by MMA.

I would totally be into watching and betting money on a sport where two men duke it out till death.

No rules, no ref. I'm a barbarian savage and i'm only partially ashamed of it

To continue the derail...Using death row or prison lifers in "to the death" gladiator sports would make the prison system a revenue producer rather than the economic burden that it is.

As far as the PED question I can see both sides so I'm ambivalent.

They should however stop suspending NFL players for smoking weed. There's definitely no competitive advantage gained so...why? I'm not a pot smoker myself but I see no difference in terms of recreational use between pot and alcohol

[PapayaTapper]

dupe delete

[heavy]

I'm torn on it. A big part of me thinks they should try to keep it clean.

That said, I don't give a shit if an athlete...or whole hoards of athletes...gear up and fuck up their bodies more than simply playing professional sports already fucks up their bodies.

UFC is doing a pretty good job using USADA. I'm sure much of the calculated decision making is cost-benefit run by lawyers.

That's said, to The Beast1 point, there's no way in hell our Federal government should ever tell us which substances are legal vs not legal.

(02-05-2018 02:42 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(02-05-2018 02:24 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

...
Nothing infuriated me more than the congressional hearings on steroid use.
...

Of course that's a separate topic, whether a private organization allows substances vs giving the Federal government the ability to come with guns and throw you in jail for having relatively harmless substances.

Given that MLB has a special exemption from from antitrust laws, I've always suspected this the reason for congressional hearings

[TigOlBitties]

They should have tables full of blow on NFL sidelines/NHL benches. A bump before every series/shift, a fat line for things like field goals/getting an assist/killing a penalty, two fat lines for scoring a goal/touchdown/defense getting a turnover, an eight ball for getting in a fight. Goalies and kickers have to smoke crack.

Patrick Kane would heavily endorse this.

[vinman]

No PEDs in fighting/ martial sports. These sports are hard enough without i. I think it detracts from the sport when you're juiced. It allows you to dish out punishment that you may not be able to do otherwise.

[blck]

PED are obsolete, like others already said it make sport more entertaining but soon it won't be necessary anymore but for the new type of ehancing drugs and ehanced behaviors the militaries are still way ahead

[monster]

(02-05-2018 05:08 PM)blck Wrote:  

PED are obsolete, like others already said it make sport more entertaining but soon it won't be necessary anymore but for the new type of ehancing drugs and ehanced behaviors the militaries are still way ahead

True, another 2 decades they'll be designer babies from genetic manipulation.

[monster]

Related sports gossip today about Anna

Quote:

One of my favorite stories from this whole thing is that this foreign born female A+ list athlete who also models and much prefers women to men had a change of heart when she got into bed with the leader of the country. He said fine, but a week later a drug sample came back showing she was dirty. The scientists who had been helping her were told not to by the leader of a different country as payback for her actions.

link

[Saccade]

If you don't really care about baseball you might be better off skipping this. Or not.
***
The PED question is a very interesting question that floats on the minds of everyone involved in the baseball community. Baseball meaning the MLB, the "show" is in the process of figuring this out. Laugh at it, think it's stupid, but tradition and number culture in baseball is deeply engrained in the game. The way I see it, it'll take 25+ years for guys like Bonds/Sosa/McGwire to make it into the hall, barring massive American societal mindset upheavel.

The question is so interesting because both sides have so much merit. I've played ball for all my life, I've still yet to make my mind up on this. It's almost like both sides are considered and accepted in the culture, like two different spheres of thought that exist within the same realm. It's so goddamn arbitrary it's hilarious. I sincerely think baseball players/lovers want this question to remain. It will change, but how long will it take? It's just two sides of a coin, and ball players got there pockets full of fuckin' change.

Examples:
- DH or no DH?
- Do you let Pete Rose in the hall of fame?
- The game's 'unwritten' rules, where do they end, begin, degenerate?
- Hell, Wilson or Rawlings? Socks up or down?

Anyway, I think baseball will drag its feet with this issue, because it's the only way it knows. Everyone knows Bonds was one of the greatest hitters of all time... if not the greatest hitter of all time. It's just baseball won't readily admit it, because it can't.

[MMX2010]

In baseball, there's a corrective surgical procedure called Tommy John surgery that removes a knee ligament, and reattaches it to the elbow. Pitchers develop repetitive stress injuries on their elbows, and knees ligaments are stronger than elbow ligaments, so some pitchers come back with faster velocity after Tommy John surgery.

That sounds amazing, until you read a story about Little League pitchers having elective Tommy John surgery. Elective means there's nothing wrong with their elbow ligaments, but they decided to have surgery anyway to give themselves a competitive advantage.

Legalizing PEDs will absolutely trickle down to children's sports, will absolutely flood the market with ever more dangerous PEDs, and will absolutely get children killed. In an ideal world where only 30+ year old athletes use PEDs, I'd support them. But knowing they'll be sold to children means I never will.

[Moto]

Ironically I think allowing PED's, at this point, is the only realistic way to level the playing field. Right now, from major sports like football to motorcycle racing, PED's are rampant. Especially in smaller sports like motocross and supercross, only the very top who guys can afford the "trainers" (many who come from cycling) can stay ahead of and beat the tests while still using.

[Saccade]

(02-05-2018 06:02 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

In baseball, there's a corrective surgical procedure called Tommy John surgery that removes a knee ligament, and reattaches it to the elbow. Pitchers develop repetitive stress injuries on their elbows, and knees ligaments are stronger than elbow ligaments, so some pitchers come back with faster velocity after Tommy John surgery.

That sounds amazing, until you read a story about Little League pitchers having elective Tommy John surgery. Elective means there's nothing wrong with their elbow ligaments, but they decided to have surgery anyway to give themselves a competitive advantage.

I've heard this before, it sounds like it would make sense, but the recovery times of Tommy John surgery lasts over a year. This is including therapy, rehab, the works. With a 12 year old kid? I guess it would be faster because he's a growing kid, but it wouldn't make sense to commit to invasive surgery, to take surely over a half a year of recovery. I've never personally heard something like this, only an odd rumor.

Quote:

Legalizing PEDs will absolutely trickle down to children's sports, will absolutely flood the market with ever more dangerous PEDs, and will absolutely get children killed. In an ideal world where only 30+ year old athletes use PEDs, I'd support them. But knowing they'll be sold to children means I never will.

I agree.