[Mufasa]

Solid article my Alan Roger Currie

Quote:

Last year, I wrote an article on this site about the sexually duplicitous nature of women (click here). The reality is, women are not the only ones who publicly attempt to give others the misleading impression that they are innocent, wholesome, prudish or semi-prudish, and only willing to engage in sex with lovers within the context of a long-term strictly monogamy oriented romantic relationship or marrige.

....

The main ‘crime’ of some of these men … if you want to refer to their libidinous exploits as such … is that they gave mainstream America and the general public the very misleading impression that they were ‘polite gentlemen’ who were either married, engaged to be married, involved with a long-term girlfriend, or at minimum, an eligible bachelor waiting to be ‘snatched up’ by the right woman … all the while, attempting to hide their more hedonistic and promiscuous tendencies.

While we all know nice guy game doesnt work and that nice guys are not actually nice I think the sexually duplicitous part is worth talking about. I think a lot of peoples red pill game gets translated into more losses than wins because we are not presenting the frame of a sexually driven man when hitting on girls.

Quote:

I say, never give women “plausible deniability.” Put a woman in a position where she has to be accountable for her choice and consent to engage in sexual activities with you.

Even when running indirect game the underlying tone needs to be that of a man that is looking for sex--body language, the way you dress, eye contact, kino, etc. If the 20% of verbal communication is indirect game then the 80% needs to be sex driven to force the issue of her consent. If you have presented the proper frame she will likely comply. Those who won't comply usually will be gone before it gets to this step because they will have read your frame and decided they are not interested.

thoughts?

[kaotic]

It's kind of a "duh" reaction for seasoned player's reading that article.

The big difference is that hollywood men HAVE TO play nice in order to be accepted into the limousine liberal group.

Being an asshole or a funny one at best is typically for comedians and those guys are a different breed - unfortunately it's painfully obvious some of them don't have game.

Setting the frame is a given, plausible deniability is a bit of a gray area.

Some guys do better not making a move until she's in bed, others like to make out in bars, some dudes will fuck a girl at said bar.

Personally I like keeping girls guessing, I don't do much kino or PDA, and girls get giddy when I finally kiss them at the end of the night.

However, I've had some girls be surprised and hardly kiss me back because they didn't think I liked them. (But got second dates)


The best mix is a guy whose funny, a dash of asshole, and is sexual.

It shows a confident man, who knows what he wants, and keeps the girl laughing.

[Mufasa]

I disagree on the plausible deniability part only because if the frame is set she knows what your agenda is. When Alan says PD he I think is referring to women wondering: "is this guy looking at me as a sexual partner or not." When your frame as a man is set to "I'm considering fucking you" she must decide to play ball or not. The tighter your game and frame the more clear that message is conveyed.

We present "game plausible deniability" as a way for her not to feel like a slut for complying with our frame. "lets get out of here", "lets grab wine at my place", etc. She is warm to the possibility of sex we just have to keep her comfortable with her disney seduction--I think that is what you are referring to?

In your case Kaotic: you are presenting yourself as a romantic opportunity to be won over and not a friendzone opportunity correct?. Even if you keep her guessing what does your body say (style, body language, eye contact, etc) How direct your romantic opportunity is up for each individual ya know.

I think that typical red pillars practicing game are maybe too afraid to establish a frame, don't know how to establish a frame, or don't really understand what a frame is and that lack of ability leads to losses.

What I'm trying to get at for those that know what they are doing and then lose what they thought was a hot lead: is that frame control and who you present yourself as has to be established in accordance with your desires. When you do this you can screen girls better, girls can screen themselves better, and it just makes game easier for everyone.
What you are trying to get out of a girl at the present time is up to each person.

Or did I misinterpret?

[General Stalin]

What it comes down to is that most men these days have been brow-beaten by society to be ashamed of being men, so they feel the need to hide their sexual desires under the guise of being harmless, sexless, and innocent. This can get dudes into hot water because while they are trying to play nice, deep down they don't actually want to and it ends up being ingenuous.

Misleading people can lead to trouble, and this is especially true with misleading women into sex. It gets inflated when you're a famous person because your private business becomes public business, and in this super information age, average people can become over-night mini-victim-celebs for crying rape/assault/harassment.

The moral of the story is to let your intentions be clear (if you have any).

A lot of guys on here like to play the indirect game - I don't. If I see a hot bitch on the street I know damn well what I want from her and it certainly isn't directions to a damn pet store.

[kaotic]

(01-16-2018 07:46 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

I disagree on the plausible deniability part only because if the frame is set she knows what your agenda is. When Alan says PD he I think is referring to women wondering: "is this guy looking at me as a sexual partner or not." When your frame as a man is set to "I'm considering fucking you" she must decide to play ball or not. The tighter your game and frame the more clear that message is conveyed.

We present "game plausible deniability" as a way for her not to feel like a slut for complying with our frame. "lets get out of here", "lets grab wine at my place", etc. She is warm to the possibility of sex we just have to keep her comfortable with her disney seduction--I think that is what you are referring to?

Yes this is what I was referring to, obviously slightly different from the original definition in the post.

Quote:

In your case Kaotic: you are presenting yourself as a romantic opportunity to be won over and not a friendzone opportunity correct?. Even if you keep her guessing what does your body say (style, body language, eye contact, etc) How direct your romantic opportunity is up for each individual ya know.

Correct I'm making it obvious that I'm flirting and want to bang her, just in not so many words.

Quote:

I think that typical red pillars practicing game are maybe too afraid to establish a frame, don't know how to establish a frame, or don't really understand what a frame is and that lack of ability leads to losses.

What I'm trying to get at for those that know what they are doing and then lose what they thought was a hot lead: is that frame control and who you present yourself as has to be established in accordance with your desires. When you do this you can screen girls better, girls can screen themselves better, and it just makes game easier for everyone.
What you are trying to get out of a girl at the present time is up to each person.

Or did I misinterpret?

Yes I absolutely agree - newbies might be afraid to "scare the cat" as they say.

Sometimes you HAVE to be dominant and if you have good enough frame/game can relay you want to fuck and to pull them back to your pad.

[PapayaTapper]

"Plausible deniability" is for her not for a man.

A mans intentions should always be artfully conveyed. By artfully I mean as direct as possible while calibrated to the girl and the context. Staking out the correct ground between sexless chode and inelegant brute in her mind is the art

She didnt expect to get fucked when she went to your place because since you hadnt even made out prior.

Plasuible deniability is what a player affords her so that she tells herself shes not a hoe...it just happened.

[kaotic]

(01-17-2018 01:16 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

She didnt expect to get fucked when she went to your place because since you hadnt even made out.

Plasuible deniability is what a player affords her so that she tells herself shes not a hoe...it just happened.

This is exactly my mindset and strategy on dates.

[General Stalin]

Good stuff in here.

A lot of game is cultivating an environment for a women to be comfortable doing whatever you'd like to do with her. Even if you're a good looking male specimen, most girls don't want to feel like a cheap hoe so you don't want to make them feel like one even though they may be willing to fuck you in bar bathroom.

[questor70]

(01-16-2018 08:24 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

The moral of the story is to let your intentions be clear (if you have any).

Unlike women who are duplicitous by nature and whose motives change with the wind.

[heavy]

Let your intentions be clear...sort of.

Women want the perfect amount of subtext. Perfect game is knowing the perfect amount of subtext. It's a combination of skill and luck. The more experienced the player, the more skill and less luck.

Zero subtext would be let's go back to my place and fuck.

Full subtext would be not approaching. Or if that's too extreme for you, would be approaching and asking how she's doing.

[jabba]

With all the #Metoo hysteria, let's look at groupies.

Merriam-Webster
: a fan of a music group who follows the group on concert tours

: a fan of an athlete or celebrity who tries to see the athlete or celebrity as often as possible

: an enthusiastic supporter or follower of something

urbandictionary
groupie
A young woman who seeks to achieve status by having sex with rock musicians, roadies, security, and other band-related guys. See Suzy Creamcheese.
She was a groupie for Nirvana, but she never got past blowing the roadies.

Dictionary.com
groupie
: The ''groupie'' syndrome, personified by adulatory novices of science flocking around the luminaries

noun
A young woman who seeks to share the glamour of famous persons, esp rock musicians, by offering help and sexual favors; bunny: No fool, no groupie, no teeny-bopper, she takes rock music, rightly, seriously

1. an ardent fan of a celebrity, esp a pop star: originally, often a girl who followed the members of a pop group on tour in order to have sexual relations with them

Granted she was 18+, she gave 150% consent and she received no financial transactions = Everything was legal.

What would be the public's reaction when groupies from previous generations come out and #metoo their once beloved Rockstars?

She willingly followed the band, she consented, she got pumped from a rockstar...She bragged about it to her closest friends and wore it as a badge of honor in her 20's.

Imagine all the legal and financial landmines living Rockstars from the 70's, 80's, 90's who can be accused of sexual assault or rape if the (empowered) groupies just don't feel the tingles from that encounter (decades later)?

I'm bracing for this trend to reach new heights against straight men, e.g. insurance companies to market policies to straight men for #metoo insurance.

Congratulations Son! You're 18 years old today! Mom and Dad just bought you a metoo policy just in case you get falsely accused of doing something you didn't do. We don't want to risk your university education or job prospects in the future. We always taught you how to respect girls and to walk away when she says No. You know, being a straight male in Western society is too risky these days.

[questor70]

"Imagine all the legal and financial landmines living Rockstars from the 70's, 80's, 90's who can be accused of sexual assault or rape if the (empowered) groupies just don't feel the tingles from that encounter (decades later)?"

Gene Simmons is already catching some of that.

https://www.refinery29.com/2017/12/18551...ry-lawsuit

Life is full of regrets. Beyond a certain point you have to view your decisions in the past as teachable moments and not something you can dredge up to score victim-points and receive a get-out-of-slut-shaming-for-free card.

[jabba]

My post was about groupies in particular.

Gene Simmons‘ case is more about over-alpha, cocky, entitlement. The women didn’t beg to be treated that way. They were at work trying to do their job.