[TIOT12]

In what areas do you choose to be honest and other areas you do not? What is your standard of ethics that you live by in this area?

Possible scenarios for discussion:
1. She asks you how long you will be in town? or what are your intentions? or other similar filtering questions?

2. She states a viewpoint on some general subject that you patently disagree with. Do you speak your opinion or keep quiet to prevent conflict?

3. How vulnerable do you choose to get with women? For example, do you volunteer information about yourself in order to try to create a deeper bond or do you always avoid this to keep relationships more shallow?

[Noir]

I generally omit things about myself unless asked. It's the mysterious persona but also trying to gauge what kind of a character she is.

It's not being dishonest, it's just leaving out information unless pertinent.

(10-16-2017 09:03 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

Possible scenarios for discussion:
1. She asks you how long you will be in town? or what are your intentions? or other similar filtering questions?

How long? Honest

Intentions? Honest depending on how open she seems to be.

The former comes much earlier in a conversation than the latter so it's just adjusting to the momentum of the interaction.

Quote:

2. She states a viewpoint on some general subject that you patently disagree with. Do you speak your opinion or keep quiet to prevent conflict?

Generally I am quiet but will apply a Socratic method in which I will basically ask questions to lead to where I want the conversation to go. Bonus points for getting contradictions.

The childlike 'why' questions also work in this regard.

This has a following outcomes, some mutually exclusive:

a) learn more about her and why she holds beliefs I disagree with

b) screen her for whether these beliefs are game-breakers, on a given time frame (i.e. could I bang and forget, could I bang and keep her around, is a bang not possible because she is intolerable)

c) not create obstacles towards being intimate with her, provided she passes b

d) if some tension and challenging would be welcomed (if I want to get laid) or worth it just to troll and entertain myself (she fails b)

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3. How vulnerable do you choose to get with women? For example, do you volunteer information about yourself in order to try to create a deeper bond or do you always avoid this to keep relationships more shallow?

The longer I know the woman, the more vulnerable I will be. It's not really about volunteering this information but rather, making it relevant.

I have mentioned this before, your personality can be an array spanning A-Z. If she only is receptive to G-T for example, I will amplify that sub-array of emotions (pull) and occasionally push (A-F) to get a response. Basically, shock the agreeableness of the conversation to stir up some emotions.

It really is a case by case basis and you will be able to gauge this during the interaction.

Generally, I am an honest fella who can be discreet. It's a balance.

[H1N1]

Scenarios:

1. Tell her what she wants to hear - it's fine to lie about this sort of stuff

2. Make fun of her rather than getting dragged into any kind of intellectual discussion with a girl

3. Be absolutely honest emotionally - this assumes you have plenty of strong, masculine traits as part of your general demeanour

[Noir]

@H1N1

Teasing is 100% effective, not buying into their frame.

[MaceTyrell]

I'm honest with every single one I tell I don't want commitment from.

So, 99%.

[DigitalNomad]

(10-16-2017 09:03 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

1. She asks you how long you will be in town? or what are your intentions? or other similar filtering questions?

100% Honest

(10-16-2017 09:03 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

2. She states a viewpoint on some general subject that you patently disagree with. Do you speak your opinion or keep quiet to prevent conflict?

100% Honest

(10-16-2017 09:03 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

3. How vulnerable do you choose to get with women? For example, do you volunteer information about yourself in order to try to create a deeper bond or do you always avoid this to keep relationships more shallow?

100% honest and volunteer stuff

----------------

Was I always like this? No. But the more honest I became, the more success I had with girls (and in life in general). The relationships would be deeper, but not necessarily in a way where she is over committing, because if you are 100% honest she knows what your intentions are and if you are looking for a relationship or just being a fuck boy.

Girls dig a genuine guy and even if you think you are getting away with a lie or whatever, they have a good sense. Sure you might get some bimbo daddy issues slut with some pathetic negging and douchebag game, but you do you.

I can literally see guys squirm when I say the things I say sometimes because they would never have the balls to be that honest, yet they go home and jerk off and I end up with the girl... just for example if a girl was like "why did you come over to talk to us", I'd probably respond "idk, because I thought you were cute and I was hoping to bring you home tonight" or something like that. Obviously tone and body language are extremely important with this, but I basically will always just say what's on my mind.

Regarding feminists who you think this might not work with, I'll say something like "The one thing I don't like about -example sweden- is how feminist it is. I mean I'm for -example equal pay and stuff- but it just gets ridiculous here... there is still a role both men and women need to play naturally." While they might agree, it probably won't hurt you and many times they'll actually agree.

And nothing will feel better than when you full on just walk away from a girl who is spitting nonsense- fuck wasting your time lying to try to get her.

[Mufasa]

I use woman honesty when talking to women--just omit the details that are damning while still being truthful. If she finds out the truth, double down.

So 100%

[Grizwald1400]

(10-16-2017 09:03 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

In what areas do you choose to be honest and other areas you do not? What is your standard of ethics that you live by in this area?

Possible scenarios for discussion:
1. She asks you how long you will be in town? or what are your intentions? or other similar filtering questions?

2. She states a viewpoint on some general subject that you patently disagree with. Do you speak your opinion or keep quiet to prevent conflict?

3. How vulnerable do you choose to get with women? For example, do you volunteer information about yourself in order to try to create a deeper bond or do you always avoid this to keep relationships more shallow?

I NEVER lie. (well at least not anymore lol)
But that's within context.
I tell white lies, like if I'm walking down the street and approach a girl, I might say I just moved here blah blah blah to get the conversation going but as when we go out i'll tell her I lied and i'll tell her exactly why I did it, (to get her attention etc) this is no harm no foul, I'm not ashamed of anything that's why I told her the truth and its not really a big deal

And also I don't tell everything but I wont lie, just a bitch doesn't need to know everything, you gotta protect yourself, there's a lot of crazy people out here

In terms of when she asks things like "what's your intentions" I will flat out say "i want to fuck", I might add in "eventually" but I'm prepared for the response and I always have a philosophical reason for why I want to do something, for instance i'll explain to her its important for me to get what I want and not to parse words about it, just as she is here to get what she wants, now maybe we want different things and that's okay but it would be a travesty for no her but me to lie about my intentions and get strung up in some type of package deal that has all kind of bullshit attached to it because I didn't want to be honest.
Now you don't have to come out and say "i want to fuck" but don't lie, don't say "maybe I want a relationship" if that's not what you want, figure out a way to say what you want but don't straddle the fence, don't compromise your integrity for the sake of (maybe) getting pussy

If she states a viewpoint you patently disagree with, you have to protest it. If you patently disagree I'm presuming you have a well thought out idea about said subject. You have to tell her why she's wrong and if you're really good you can tell her what lead her to think the way she does (size her up), you'll get a bitchy protest but if you hold steadfast then your value shoots way up. But its really not about your value, like I said before its about integrity, that's what being a man is, You are willing to have the pussy taken off the table if the other option is sacrificing your manhood. Also this is why bitches are fucked up in the first place. Other men don't check them, so they run off spouting at the mouth with no filter, we have that gut feeling like "what did this bitch just say?" but we are taught to edit ourselves as men in order to not offend them and because we don't want to risk the puss walking away. This whole shit is about making a stand. All this game/lifestyle shit is about becoming a better man, and the consequence from that is more options of women, but the women precipitate being a man of character, its not about them its about you.

The thing about being vulnerable depends on where you are in your life. Do you have scars that still hunt you and you fear exposing them to people might backfire? Then don't do it. Maybe you need counselling or something but don't share these things with a woman because they will throw it in your face to hurt you. But me personally most of the bad things I've been through I've overcome, and I understand a lot of people have fucked up lives so I noticed when I'm open with people in general what will happen is they will just start spilling their whole life story to me. People in general, but especially women just want to know someone cares, so if you can relate with them and not judge, even give words of wisdom it will go a long way

[questor70]

The judge thing is one of my pet-peeves...

The more they complain that they feel they're being judged by you the more they're really saying they are ashamed of their actions but they want external validation to paper over it.

For instance, when I went out with the nurse who paid her way through nursing school as a stripper, I said something that "triggered" her into feeling as though I was being "judgmental" about it. She was actively going to therapy at the time. Well, if she didn't think her past choices were so shameful, she wouldn't have had to go to therapy to get over it and she would not have kept it a secret until we were in bed together. Objectively speaking she knew it was a slimey thing to do. Those moments where they share private shame are shit-tests along the lines of "do I look fat in this dress"?

I'm sure simply telling women what they want to be told yields more bangs, but boy is it difficult to kiss up like that.

[TIOT12]

(10-19-2017 03:04 AM)Grizwald1400 Wrote:  

I NEVER lie. (well at least not anymore lol)
But that's within context.
I tell white lies, like if I'm walking down the street and approach a girl, I might say I just moved here blah blah blah to get the conversation going but as when we go out i'll tell her I lied and i'll tell her exactly why I did it, (to get her attention etc) this is no harm no foul, I'm not ashamed of anything that's why I told her the truth and its not really a big deal

I haven't done this historically but I think it is fairly common and tend to agree with you. For example, it is a common trope to find out where a girl is from and then say you know someone who just visited it or have a relative that lives there and so on. It is merely a way to build a connection and set her at ease that may even be necessary otherwise a lot of conversations would die off faster without them.

(10-19-2017 03:04 AM)Grizwald1400 Wrote:  

And also I don't tell everything but I wont lie, just a bitch doesn't need to know everything, you gotta protect yourself, there's a lot of crazy people out here

This is a good point too and I probably don't fully appreciate this risk as much as I should.

(10-19-2017 03:04 AM)Grizwald1400 Wrote:  

In terms of when she asks things like "what's your intentions" I will flat out say "i want to fuck", I might add in "eventually" but I'm prepared for the response and I always have a philosophical reason for why I want to do something, for instance i'll explain to her its important for me to get what I want and not to parse words about it, just as she is here to get what she wants, now maybe we want different things and that's okay but it would be a travesty for no her but me to lie about my intentions and get strung up in some type of package deal that has all kind of bullshit attached to it because I didn't want to be honest.
Now you don't have to come out and say "i want to fuck" but don't lie, don't say "maybe I want a relationship" if that's not what you want, figure out a way to say what you want but don't straddle the fence, don't compromise your integrity for the sake of (maybe) getting pussy

This is funny because I invariably end up giving similar types of philosophical reasons. Ex. Life is short. One should go after what they want. Don't you agree? or the one I have been doing more lately is talkiing about travel or meeting someone and then saying I get more value from meeting new people than seeing things. Each experience/connection changes me and so on. I imagine most guys are probably doing something similar because it seems to tap into emotions more which seems to be a bigger hit with women. The eventually tag is an interesting one to add on when you feel the calibration is off. I will have to remember that one.
Reminds me of where you give a compliment to a woman like you are a beautiful woman and she flinches and you say something like do you mind me saying that or perhaps I have been too direct? It is a way to make the statement more palatable to the woman and allow her to respond.

I am curious how you respond with this scenario that I get from time to time. She will make some innocuous comment that I will sexualize and she will make a point to say she is not like those girls. How do you respond to this? So far I saw something like "I know you are not. I like you as you are. But I don't judge other people either for they have a different life experience than me and I can learn from them." But I feel like there is a better response out there that would get her to open up more on this and keep the tension.

(10-19-2017 03:04 AM)Grizwald1400 Wrote:  

If she states a viewpoint you patently disagree with, you have to protest it. If you patently disagree I'm presuming you have a well thought out idea about said subject. You have to tell her why she's wrong and if you're really good you can tell her what lead her to think the way she does (size her up), you'll get a bitchy protest but if you hold steadfast then your value shoots way up. But its really not about your value, like I said before its about integrity, that's what being a man is, You are willing to have the pussy taken off the table if the other option is sacrificing your manhood. Also this is why bitches are fucked up in the first place. Other men don't check them, so they run off spouting at the mouth with no filter, we have that gut feeling like "what did this bitch just say?" but we are taught to edit ourselves as men in order to not offend them and because we don't want to risk the puss walking away. This whole shit is about making a stand. All this game/lifestyle shit is about becoming a better man, and the consequence from that is more options of women, but the women precipitate being a man of character, its not about them its about you.

I'll give you my latest scenario on this. I was at an art museum and talking to a female usher who was an art history major. Cute girl that is a little nerdy like from the Big Bang Theory. She is telling me all about the art and we are having good rapport but then she goes off on a tangent about how some female artist had to deal with men keeping her down and preventing her from doing more work as she couldn't find patrons. This was ok for me but then she continued on down this track to expand it to SJW rhetoric about patriarchy keeping women down. My eyes roll to the back of my head and she sensed this as she stopped talking about it. I don't press this conversation topic because I didn't think I could be calm about it and really it was the last thing I wanted to talk to her about. I wanted to keep it light and flirty. I also recognize she was a college student and was probably only trying to impress me we with what she learned as she was talking a little fast. So I don't know whether I should have had that argument or not? In other situations, I have pushed back especially if it is at a bar but just was caught a little off guard by it and didn't want to have the argument then. I could have had that chat later on but was not feeling it in that exact moment. I was thinking she might be a bit bookish and social awkward and that played into the situation a bit too so didn't want to be too harsh. Do you really think the argument needs to be had immediately or can it be tabled for later?

(10-19-2017 03:04 AM)Grizwald1400 Wrote:  

The thing about being vulnerable depends on where you are in your life. Do you have scars that still hunt you and you fear exposing them to people might backfire? Then don't do it. Maybe you need counselling or something but don't share these things with a woman because they will throw it in your face to hurt you. But me personally most of the bad things I've been through I've overcome, and I understand a lot of people have fucked up lives so I noticed when I'm open with people in general what will happen is they will just start spilling their whole life story to me. People in general, but especially women just want to know someone cares, so if you can relate with them and not judge, even give words of wisdom it will go a long way

When I was saying vulnerable, I didn't necessarily mean for you to say like you were abused as a child or something more serious. I don't think it is a good idea to bring up anything that would make you angry or sad thinking about. If you were to bring up something tough like a divorce or abuse, it should be something you have dealt with and have moved on from emotionally. I was really basically saying to share things about your life like you come from a big family or some experience like your favorite food or toy as a kid or some weird quirk about you. Basically, just sharing things you don't normally tell other people. Something that is a little deeper than usual conversation. The goal being say something that makes you more grounded and real and allows them to connect with you and hopefully get them to share something from their own lives so you have this shared bond. of course, you are basically getting to that point at the end of your statement here.

I imagine the vulnerability aspect can be a double edged sword depending on what you want. If you are looking for deeper relationships, I think it makes more sense as a good filter. But if you are just looking to get more bangs, probably can get in the way as you are causing the woman to see you as more than just a fling. Would be curious to get other people's opinions on this?

[TIOT12]

(10-19-2017 03:56 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

Those moments where they share private shame are shit-tests along the lines of "do I look fat in this dress"?

I'm sure simply telling women what they want to be told yields more bangs, but boy is it difficult to kiss up like that.

I don't like these conversations either because if you go the empathy route, I feel I lose frame. Like the no, baby you are beautiful and so on and then you lose control of the conversation and resent it. Instead, I have been leaning more towards what Tom Torero said when asked some variation of the do you think I look fat question?

His response, is "Massive, Huge. We should go to the gym immediately." In other words, agree and amplify and make the claim absurd.

I am going back and forth on whether I think this is a good idea with more serious things. But it probably is ok here too even if the initial reaction from her will be shock. Because in both cases your response is basically it is not a big deal and get over it because you don't care. Which is ultimately probably the best thing you could do for them.

[birthday cat]

(10-16-2017 09:03 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

1. She asks you how long you will be in town? or what are your intentions? or other similar filtering questions?

Either honest, or vague then honest. I try to let girls do more of the talking. I'll be vague about things and turn the question back around on them. People like people that listen to them and if you get her talking enough she will tell you what you need to do and what you shouldn't do with her.

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2. She states a viewpoint on some general subject that you patently disagree with. Do you speak your opinion or keep quiet to prevent conflict?

Disagree. I might be careful with the way I phrase my words but I will disagree. I think the alpha and beta terms are overused but this is one case where they fit well. Disagreeing when you genuinely disagree is alpha and much more attractive. I also agree with teasing being a good option if the subject isn't too serious. Teasing should be like breathing.

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3. How vulnerable do you choose to get with women? For example, do you volunteer information about yourself in order to try to create a deeper bond or do you always avoid this to keep relationships more shallow?

This completely depends on the girl, how much I like her, how intelligent she is, etc.

[SteezeySteve]

Its called embellishment.
Just make sure you're good at acting honest.

smooth

If you suck at it don't try it. It'll only back fire big time. If you had to lie,steal,and pitch ideas since you were 5 its a lot easier.
If your parents were accountants and you're a computer programmer i'm not sure if i'd try it.