[Jungle]

(09-25-2017 08:06 PM)mensch Wrote:  

But the grandeur of Europe came about when all of these (read: European cultures) cultures intermingled and created the European civilisation.

This is what made Europe so wealthy and culturally rich.

You've answered your own question. It was homogenous or semi-homogenous Europeans who made Europe so amazing. Ultimately it will be cultural marxist "multikulti" that will destroy it, it's already happening.

You state that Europe is so great because of "diversity", but what you failed to mention is it was intra-European diversity, not the same type of diversity we see today. Going back hundreds of years these individual European nations had some common values such as ethnicity and religion, also the individual European nations were sovereign, which is not the case nowadays where the decisions of EU nations are made by Brussels and Berlin.

(09-25-2017 08:06 PM)mensch Wrote:  

Maybe I'm too classically conservative for this new nationalism...

Hmmm...

Did you grow up in Germany i.e. complete your schooling in that country?

I've lived there and have many close friends from there, the relentless anti-German pro-globalist indoctrination in this country is truly astounding.

[CJ_W]

(09-21-2017 01:49 PM)mensch Wrote:  

Fair enough. So you think that if you fragment Europe, Hungary will stop puking moslems into Vienna despite Kurz's best efforts, and the Germans and French will see the light of day, or you think we should just sacrifice France and Germany with their Macron and Merkel for the survival of Poland and Hungary?

Sacrifice Germany, France, and Sweden., Poland, Hungary, Maybe the U.K. will survive. Besides Germany has only recently become a country, and even then, for like half of it's life it was divided into two by the soviets (the very power that German's brought Hitler to power to fight against)

Especially France, that country pretty much just voted suicide in getting Macaroni the presidency, so they deserve what's coming to them.

Also someone mentioned that having the countries remain independent is a good hedge for countries that shit the bed.

This is the same reasoning as to why world government is bad, if one country is bad, well just move somewhere else (if you are paying attention and prepared that is) with a world government, if THAT government turns out bad (not"if" but "WHEN") well, you're kinda fucked aren't ya?

[freeuser]

(09-21-2017 01:08 PM)Johnnyvee Wrote:  

-Balkanization and smaller Nations and subunits are historically linked to peaceful relations, as opposed to large centrally controlled empires and nations.
Think of Rome, The British Empire, the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia etc. In fact the former Yugoslavia is a good example of the peace-generating capacity of having smaller autonomous units. The process of break-up might be painful, but`s that`s because these peoples never should have been forced to live under one flag in the first place.
Also study Europe during the middle-ages. It was extremely balkanized and a pretty peaceful era.

Europe has traditionally been a very violent continent. Maybe with the exception of the Roman Empire: Pax Romana. And during the last 70 years withe the EU being quite helpful at keeping peace.

[redpillage]

(09-26-2017 05:49 AM)freeuser Wrote:  

Europe has traditionally been a very violent continent. Maybe with the exception of the Roman Empire: Pax Romana. And during the last 70 years withe the EU being quite helpful at keeping peace.

Correlation does not equal causation. Just because there has been peace doesn't mean the EU was the cause of it. Actually quite to the contrary, everything was working pretty well in post WW2 Europe until the EU started mocking things up by engaging in a massive power grab. It's quite possible that the EU will one day in the far future be remembered as the main reason for the coming pan-European civil war.

[Dalaran1991]

(09-26-2017 12:53 AM)CJ_W Wrote:  

Sacrifice Germany, France, and Sweden., Poland, Hungary, Maybe the U.K. will survive. Besides Germany has only recently become a country, and even then, for like half of it's life it was divided into two by the soviets (the very power that German's brought Hitler to power to fight against)

Especially France, that country pretty much just voted suicide in getting Macaroni the presidency, so they deserve what's coming to them.

I keep hearing moronic arguments like this and to me it's worse than listening to the macaron-cuck here in France.

That faggot won through the popular vote and voter fraud. Remember that Hillary also won the popular vote through voter fraud in the US. So, based on your logic all the good Americans (maybe half of this whole forum) deserves to die because some old thot cheated the voting system? Americans better thank the 9 gods they have the electoral system else they would be fuck over way worse than Europe. Comparing Macaron to Hillary is like comparing a hedge witch to the devil.

Oh sure, sacrifice France, Germany, Italy. Basically all the cultures and power that make Europe Europe? That brought Christendom to power? That makes good wine, fine dining, music, renaissance art? Keep only Hungary and the likes who are traditional with nice girls, but piss poor economy and corruption, so rich UK / USA people can jog over when you like for some sex tourism?

Apparently, some think that to cure the headache you must cut off the head.

Get rid of the EU, not the countries nor its cultures.

[mensch]

(09-25-2017 11:57 PM)Jungle Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 08:06 PM)mensch Wrote:  

But the grandeur of Europe came about when all of these (read: European cultures) cultures intermingled and created the European civilisation.

This is what made Europe so wealthy and culturally rich.

You've answered your own question. It was homogenous or semi-homogenous Europeans who made Europe so amazing. Ultimately it will be cultural marxist "multikulti" that will destroy it, it's already happening.

You state that Europe is so great because of "diversity", but what you failed to mention is it was intra-European diversity, not the same type of diversity we see today. Going back hundreds of years these individual European nations had some common values such as ethnicity and religion, also the individual European nations were sovereign, which is not the case nowadays where the decisions of EU nations are made by Brussels and Berlin.

(09-25-2017 08:06 PM)mensch Wrote:  

Maybe I'm too classically conservative for this new nationalism...

Hmmm...

Did you grow up in Germany i.e. complete your schooling in that country?

I've lived there and have many close friends from there, the relentless anti-German pro-globalist indoctrination in this country is truly astounding.

Why would I be arguing for diversity with other peoples? I am talking about reframing, and rethinking the project of saving the bloody thing.

The multikulti are winning because the conservatives are only fighting for independence from the EU, and thus are seen as bonkers by the larger electorate. Bonkers because they are fighting for something that is largely working, and something that, if gone, would scare people - especially now that the ineptitude of even the British at it is apparent. Perhaps there will be a time for a fight against the EU, or for radical reformation of it (with a fucking workable plan).

I say it's time we oust the likes of Merkel, and form a truly conservative, pro-European (in the broad sense) movement. Like we are seeing in Austria, with Kurz. Whether the EU ultimately stays is a second, less pressing, matter.

And I didn't grow up entirely in Germany. I went to boarding school abroad. Make of that what you will.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^Hilarious.

You seem to be completely ignorant of the whole point of the EU.

A conglomerate organisation that subjugates a whole bunch of nations under the corporate rule of a body of unelected bureaucrats and bankers.

Conservatives are fighting for an exit because there is no "negotiation" with Brussels. Your opinions and democratic mandates are nothing but a joke to them.

As far as they're concerned you will do as you're fucking told. For example, Merkel was able to ignore winning any kind of mandate before unilaterally inviting a million street-shitters into Europe, but if Poland wants to keep said street-shitters out of Poland then suddenly the laws of the EU are utterly relevant and "member states must abide by the rules".

If you're suggesting the global banking cartels running the EU through Brussels could somehow be brought to heel by having a crack at the polls then you're either delusional or a shill.

Your votes can't change a thing. They have rules against it.

IIRC some of those cunts were audacious enough to suggest that the UK was literally "not allowed" to leave, and in fact if they had been willing (and stupid enough) to press the issue I'm sure they would have been contractually correct.

The only reason Brexit is being entertained is because of the implicit threat of nationalist violence that underlies it. They can't force Britain to stay, and they know if they try they'll ignite something far worse than a simple member-state withdrawal.

[redpillage]

(09-26-2017 07:56 AM)mensch Wrote:  

And I didn't grow up entirely in Germany. I went to boarding school abroad. Make of that what you will.

Seems like your boarding school didn't teach you much about strategic thinking. There is no way that one could get away with Austrian style politics anywhere in Germany right now, except maybe in Sachsen. You would immediately shouted down and labeled a racist Neo-Nazi.

Decades of Marxist brainwashing has fallen on fertile ground in Germany and it would take decades of successful nationalist policies to reverse it. There's only one problem: Germany ran out of time last Sunday and the gist is up. I expect Germany to be 50% Muslim by 2040, perhaps a bit earlier if the killing and raping surges over the coming years. It's not going to be a nice place to live in going forward, so if you're still there then I strongly recommend you're starting to consider an exit strategy for yourself and your loved ones.

[redpillage]

(09-26-2017 08:32 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

IIRC some of those cunts were audacious enough to suggest that the UK was literally "not allowed" to leave, and in fact if they had been willing (and stupid enough) to press the issue I'm sure they would have been contractually correct.

I didn't know what IIRC meant (if I remember/recall correctly) and guess what. When searching for it I ran into yet another globalist organization:

https://integratedreporting.org/

Quote:

The International Integrated Reporting Council (IIRC) is a global coalition of regulators, investors, companies, standard setters, the accounting profession and NGOs. The coalition is promoting communication about value creation as the next step in the evolution of corporate reporting.

Mission
The IIRC’s mission is to establish integrated reporting and thinking within mainstream business practice as the norm in the public and private sectors.

Vision
The IIRC’s vision is to align capital allocation and corporate behaviour to wider goals of financial stability and sustainable development through the cycle of integrated reporting and thinking.

The Breakthrough Phase (2014-2017)
The IIRC’s Breakthrough Phase is the move from the creation of the International <IR> Framework and market testing to development and early adoption by reporting organizations around the world. The IIRC’s objective for this phase is to achieve a meaningful shift towards early adoption of the International <IR> Framework. The strategy for the Breakthrough Phase is available here.

How much you bet Soros has his dirty paws all over this?

[Leonard D Neubache]

(09-26-2017 08:51 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

The IIRC’s vision is to:

align capital allocation... = control all investment
...and corporate behaviour... = control all production
...to wider goals of financial stability = total control over monetary sytem
...and sustainable development through the cycle of integrated reporting and thinking. = we are the Borg.
...

This is just politician-speak for "we want control over everything, and when we say everything we mean everything."

[redpillage]

(09-26-2017 08:59 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 08:51 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

The IIRC’s vision is to:

align capital allocation... = control all investment
...and corporate behaviour... = control all production
...to wider goals of financial stability = total control over monetary sytem
...and sustainable development through the cycle of integrated reporting and thinking. = we are the Borg.
...

This is just politician-speak for "we want control over everything, and when we say everything we mean everything."

Yup, my interpretation as well. Fucking scary shit hiding right there in the open. And most likely there are hundreds of these monstrosities being seeded all over the planet.

[N°6]

(09-21-2017 03:17 PM)Extinguished Light Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 12:32 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

America works because we have a common language (English) and a common religious cultural framework (Christianity).

We no longer have those things and thus the American project is doomed to fail.

The American Republic gives suckle to Romulus and Remus.

One of the twin is the Freemasonic, rationalist, liberal who sees "America" as an ideology to spread across the world to oppose "tyrants" (i.e. those who want the state and church to be stronger than finance).

The other twin, is the non-Conformist Christian agrarian who sees "America" as a confederation of republican states which seek no foreign entanglement.

They won't live together.

[Johnnyvee]

(09-25-2017 09:03 PM)mensch Wrote:  

Two things.

Firstly, is that I broadly disagree with your historical assessment.

Yes, genetic similarities are older, but they are only important inasmuch as they manifest in reality. And about the make up of said reality, I'd disagree that Europe was 'more balkanised' before than now, in a meaningful sense.

Even when there was political disunity in the form of Empires, Kingdoms, Dukedoms, Fiefdoms, etc., there was always the Catholic church (and Christian morality) as an element of pacification and unity. The hold of Christian morality, and of the institutionalised church, has been lost.

But secondly, even if I am wrong, and balkanisation helped Europe (or political balkanisation at least), this does not mean that to fight for balkanisation is the best political move *right now*. That is, I can agree that the European Union is not a great second act to the Catholic church (or the Roman empire), but it doesn't matter. Now we are in crisis. The more pressing issue is to stop the fucking bleeding.

Genetic differences do manifest themselves in reality though.
That`s exactly why you always get conflicts when different sub-species share a geographical location. I think you totally underestimate the millions of years prior to civilization, and the impact they had in forming various hominid groups.
Even between say Slavs and Scandinavians you see substantial variation, most importantly when it comes to cognitive function, temper etc. People don`t like to think about how evolution has shaped even our social dynamic and emotional patterns as they associate that with some metaphysical explanation.

I think that you have to see culture as not only secondary, but really more as a superstructure built upon an underlying genetic heritage.
So the culture of a people is limited within the parameters of their genetic heritage. The calm and collected Swede can not (naturally) act like the more outgoing equatorial African man etc. (Doesn`t mean one is better than the other, only different.) They are shaped by their environment, climate and so on.

You can debate just how balkanized or not Europe where during the middle-ages, but as long as the EU generally pushes for more immigration, more surveillance, less freedom and autonomy for it`s member State citizens, and the pushback only comes from strongly Nationalist leaders within those states, I fail to see you`re point.
When did the EU take any initiative by themselves to halt immigration? They are even threatening member nations who try to sort things out themselves.

[mensch]

(09-26-2017 08:45 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

(09-26-2017 07:56 AM)mensch Wrote:  

And I didn't grow up entirely in Germany. I went to boarding school abroad. Make of that what you will.

Seems like your boarding school didn't teach you much about strategic thinking. There is no way that one could get away with Austrian style politics anywhere in Germany right now, except maybe in Sachsen. You would immediately shouted down and labeled a racist Neo-Nazi.

Uhm, you seem to misunderstand Austrian politics. Or at least misunderstand certain specifics of Austrian politics. Kurz is not part of the FPÖ (the party that AfD modelled itself after), he is part of the ÖVP, which is the Austrian equivalent of the CDU (ie, the blacks, the Christian conservatives).

But, unlike Merkel, he is not a completely opportunistic sophist. He's an actual conservative. In the coalition with the Social Democrats he is the Foreign Secretary and Secretary for Integration and he handled the border problem we had, always pushing for less refugees, and a sensible, sustainable policy. Of course, that with the SPÖ controlling the chancellorship he was unable to push his preferred policies through (the full version of his Islamgesetz, his 50-point plan, etc). Things will change though. He is about to become the second youngest head of Government in the world (after the Captain Regent of bloody San Marino), which will be good news for the protection of Europe.

The clowns of the FPÖ only managed to put a fucking Green party, marxist professor in the presidency. Great achievement, guys.

That's what I mean by a better strategy: if you put the conservatives of the AfD into the CDU you strengthen the movement by allying with other conservatives and pushing internally for better immigration policy. This gives the anti-immigration movement the clout it needs.

The AfD will ruffle feathers, but do nothing concrete. They are seen as a pariah party, dangerous, blahblah. The truth ultimately doesn't matter - that's the perception in most of Germany. Worse, they might unite and strengthen the left as they become a pariah party that no other party will ally with. Which essentially means their seats are useless.

Hopefully Petry has a plan, that's the only hope we have.

I take my example from Britain, where UKIP and Nigel fucking Farage were drinking their pints and being good chaps, flying the flag of the British clown high and proud. In the meanwhile the Eurosceptics within the Conservative Party were the ones that actually pushed Dave for the referendum.

[redpillage]

(09-27-2017 12:34 PM)mensch Wrote:  

The AfD will ruffle feathers, but do nothing concrete. They are seen as a pariah party, dangerous, blahblah. The truth ultimately doesn't matter - that's the perception in most of Germany. Worse, they might unite and strengthen the left as they become a pariah party that no other party will ally with. Which essentially means their seats are useless.

They are seen as a pariah party because of people like you who demonize them right out of the gate. They haven't even been in the Bundestag until now and without a mandate they were basically considered 'Nazi Freiwild' by the ruling coalition.

I know Austria well, just visited the South again this May. Beginning of October Austria is going to be actively enforcing its new burka ban. Try to get that one passed in Germany, good luck! ;-) All you need to know about the differences between the two countries. Austria may actually have a shot at survival. All comes down to what'll happen in the October elections. I don't have my hopes high but unlike the Krauts the native Össies actually care about their own country. Oh, and they have a sense of humor, which comes handy in times like these.

[Matt Forney]

(09-27-2017 12:34 PM)mensch Wrote:  

That's what I mean by a better strategy: if you put the conservatives of the AfD into the CDU you strengthen the movement by allying with other conservatives and pushing internally for better immigration policy. This gives the anti-immigration movement the clout it needs.

"Pushing internally for better immigration policy" is pointless if the existing policy is the hill that the leader has chosen to die on.

The migrant situation is the rock that Angela Merkel has built her legacy on, because without it, she'd be an older, uglier version of Theresa May. She will never change it (and she's said as much, multiple times), and the CDU/CSU shows no sign of getting rid of her, meaning either they agree with her policies or they're too cowardly to challenge her on them. In other words, they're useless and AfD's people would have zero hope of changing their minds because they'd be massively outnumbered.

You sound like the cuckservatives in the U.S. last year who were going, "Trump's gonna lose, we better do a deal with Hillary now so we don't get our shit ruined when she wins." Complete loser mentality.

(09-27-2017 12:34 PM)mensch Wrote:  

I take my example from Britain, where UKIP and Nigel fucking Farage were drinking their pints and being good chaps, flying the flag of the British clown high and proud. In the meanwhile the Eurosceptics within the Conservative Party were the ones that actually pushed Dave for the referendum.

You can't be serious. The only reason Cameron agreed to the E.U. referendum was because he was terrified of losing votes to UKIP (which the Conservatives did, in 2014 and 2015). The only reason May has become a firm Brexiteer is because she knows that if she betrayed the referendum results, she'd be looking at Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn or Prime Minister Nigel Farage come the next election.

On the night Brexit won, Boris Johnson, the leader of the pro-Leave campaign in the Conservative Party and one of the "Euroskeptics" you think so highly of, was recorded on camera saying, "Oh, fuck! What do we do now?" Johnson and the pro-Leave Tories were legitimately shocked by the Leave side winning because they had no intention of winning. They expected the Remain side would win and only pretended to support Leave so they could use the publicity to make names for themselves and take over the party. When Leave won, Johnson et al. were caught with their pants down, which is why none of them were able to mount a successful challenge to Theresa May for the prime ministership.

Face it: without Nigel Farage and UKIP, Brexit would not have happened. He's the only voice worth a damn who's been consistently fighting the E.U. since the nineties, when the Tories were spinning their wheels against Tony Blair and the BNP was imploding in mutual recriminations.

[Brother Abdul Majeed]

From the article:

Quote:

“Some British politicians – not to name Boris Johnson – criticise their countrymen and women for wanting to keep their European identity. He accuses them of ‘split allegiance’. I think this is a binary, old-fashioned and reductionist understanding of identity. I think we need to be smarter, more open and more inventive then that,” he said.

The bolding is mine. Where have we heard this sort of crap before?

Edited because I screwed up the bolding.

[Geomann180]

(09-25-2017 08:06 PM)mensch Wrote:  

This is getting everything exactly backwards. Of course there is such a thing as a 'German culture', and its folk manifestation (cakes, Oktoberfest, whatever Americans think of when they read 'Germany') is just fine and perhaps worth preserving.

You say that something of your heritage, your culture, your birthright, is perhaps worth preserving?

How do you even get out of bed every morning?

(09-25-2017 08:06 PM)mensch Wrote:  

But the grandeur of Europe came about when all of these cultures intermingled and created the European civilisation: we, together, developed Western classical music, Christianity, Science, Philosophy, Literature. Our intellectuals and aristocrats spoke and wrote in Latin, then French, for centuries. We had the great Catholic church as the appeaser, pacifier, and unifier of the continent. We took back Hispania from the moors. We took Jerusalem. We intermarried our royal families.

If by together, you mean, separately on your own timelines. The four kingdoms that now comprise Spain took back Spain from the Moors, not Germany. Not England.

That unifying culture was Christianity - which did promote a cessation of infighting amongst members of the Christendom. Also was useful rallying cause to resist Islam which was intent on conquer of Europe.

Quote:

The Hungarian dobos torte, the French baguette and the Cotoletta alla Milanesa might be nice cultural manifestations worth preserving, but they cannot blind us to the fact that that Europe has something deeper connecting all these nations, binding them together. A moral connection. A historical connection. A civilisation. This is what made Europe so wealthy and culturally rich.

That is the whole point. That's what we are trying to protect.

Maybe I'm too classically conservative for this new nationalism...

What is this something? Why can't you speak your mind on an anonymous forum?

All this vague and flowery talk convinces me that on the whole, most of the masculine Europeans died in WW1 and WW2.

G

[Troller]

Nigel Farage never won a parliamentary seat. Never. Even though I enjoy hearing his speeches.
Brexit happened because of conservatives will.

Mensch is right. Europeans elections are orchestraded in a way you only get two options: vote for multicultural garbage. Or leave the EU.

The french election and the way Fillon was grilled by the press. Is an example of this.
As if they couldnt find dirt on maricon.

Europe needs statesmans. And certainly not snakes like Merkel.

[Quintus Curtius]

Spanish nationalists break up a meeting of Catalan separatists:

[url=https://twitter.com/bronzeagemantis/status/912986400093560833][/url]

[Johnnyvee]

(09-30-2017 11:27 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Spanish nationalists break up a meeting of Catalan separatists:

[url=https://twitter.com/bronzeagemantis/status/912986400093560833][/url]

Why not just let them leave?
Once the money runs out they will beg to come back anyway.
Might teach them a lesson. Catalonia is not exactly run like Singapore,
they depend on welfare to a large extent.

[911]

I'm totally on the side of Spanish nationalists, the Catalan separatists have a lot of that red 1930s agenda blended with modern SJW pro-EU leftism. But those types of interventions are very counterproductive and not helpful to the Spanish cause.

In other news, Soros backing Catalan independence:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article198106.html

[N°6]

(10-01-2017 09:27 AM)911 Wrote:  

I'm totally on the side of Spanish nationalists, the Catalan separatists have a lot of that red 1930s agenda blended with modern SJW pro-EU leftism. But those types of interventions are very counterproductive and not helpful to the Spanish cause.

In other news, Soros backing Catalan independence:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article198106.html

Yep 80-90% of modern SJWism derives some sort of lineage from the ¡No Pasarán! Trotskyites of the Spanish Republicans.

[Traktor]

(09-30-2017 11:27 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Spanish nationalists break up a meeting of Catalan separatists:

[/url]

You mean neo Nazis.

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(Spain)]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(Spain)

[Traktor]

(10-01-2017 09:47 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(10-01-2017 09:27 AM)911 Wrote:  

I'm totally on the side of Spanish nationalists, the Catalan separatists have a lot of that red 1930s agenda blended with modern SJW pro-EU leftism. But those types of interventions are very counterproductive and not helpful to the Spanish cause.

In other news, Soros backing Catalan independence:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article198106.html

Yep 80-90% of modern SJWism derives some sort of lineage from the ¡No Pasarán! Trotskyites of the Spanish Republicans.

The slogan of ¡No Pasarán! was used by the Republican side of all shapes and hue as a common slogan against the fascists. I knew a couple of IRA (Irish Republican Army) members who fought in Spain on the Republican side and they told me that slogan was everywhere. The Trotskyites (POUM) were one of the factions of the Republicans and they were not liked by the others - Basques, Catalans, Republicans, Anarchists, pro Moscow communists.

As for Soros, he has his fingers in many pies but his influence here is miniscule.

The Catalans and the Basques (who fought against Franco and suffered for decades in the aftermath of the Civil War) have the right of self determination should they wish to exercise that. The Basques are the oldest extant people in Europe and their language goes back thousands of years, well before that of Greek or Latin.