[subterfuge]

Do you guys still use DHV stories after you open?

Game literature seems to have changed so much nowadays to the point that it's almost just 'be yourself and what you say and do doesn't matter''. It's all INNER GAME!

(I actually saw a video by ToddRSD where he basically spoke about this aswell. He almost took a dig at Max and his 'natural game' - Maybe that's why he got the boot lol)

Anyway, I posted some FR's elsewhere recently, and lots of people were saying that the reason I wasn't ever able to 'hook' the girls and get them asking me questions back etc is because I need to start using DHV stories soon after I open. (make up some story about saving my ex model girlfriend from a bear attack or something!)

Everything 'routiney' kind of makes me cringe a bit, though and like I say, I don't think I ever see them in infields nowadays, so surely they can't actually be necesary?

Coaches seems to be breaking every mysterymethod rule in the book nowadays, but certain people still see him as the god of game, and that if you aren't getting results, it's because you're not following mystery method properly?

[sonderho]

(09-08-2017 04:48 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  

Do you guys still use DHV stories after you open?

Game literature seems to have changed so much nowadays to the point that it's almost just 'be yourself and what you say and do doesn't matter''. It's all INNER GAME!

(I actually saw a video by ToddRSD where he basically spoke about this aswell. He almost took a dig at Max and his 'natural game' - Maybe that's why he got the boot lol)

Anyway, I posted some FR's elsewhere recently, and lots of people were saying that the reason I wasn't ever able to 'hook' the girls and get them asking me questions back etc is because I need to start using DHV stories soon after I open. (make up some story about saving my ex model girlfriend from a bear attack or something!)

Everything 'routiney' kind of makes me cringe a bit, though and like I say, I don't think I ever see them in infields nowadays, so surely they can't actually be necesary?

Coaches seems to be breaking every mysterymethod rule in the book nowadays, but certain people still see him as the god of game, and that if you aren't getting results, it's because you're not following mystery method properly?

I think DHV stories are incredibly important because they are giving the girl a peek into what kind of person you are (your essence and whether she'd want to see you again) and also gets her asking (essentially investing in you) by baiting her to ask questions about you.

There is limited value in being an entertaining clown without a filter and/or substance.

[Fortis]

I think a lot of that stuff goes from conscious to unconscious after a while. Like I tell stories to girls all the time and many times it's DHV or it isn't. It's not always something that I think of beforehand. I talk about business, fitness, money-making schemes and other things that make me look good, but I do it sorta carelessly.

I think starting out, you should think of cool stories from your life that you can tell.

I liked to use a story about how I almost won a game show on TV (real story) but I don't tell it anymore really. I got tired of getting asked for photos and stuff.

More important than the story, however, is the context. You can't just go from "hi, i'm Fortis and I saw you and wanted to talk to you" to "Did you know I was on TV once!"

I might segway into the TV story if she tells me she watches a lot of American gameshows or something.

[Hypno]

You should have two or three stories to discuss on a date, and perfect them. Tell them for a purpose. I have one about having been stalked that I tell because it shows social proof, creates emotional spikes (scary to funny to mysterious) and sexual mastery.

[Mikestar]

Yes, on a date tell stories and exaggerate them a little, e.g. I always tell girls the story of how I quit my job and told my boss to fuck himself and nearly had a fight with him (but I didn't day it like that in reality), the way you say it to has to wow her.

[Remington]

The stories also have to cater to your audience. If you are talking to a woman who is 21 or 22, they are going to usually want to hear about stories from college or parties; because that is what they are currently used to at this point.

If you are going to talk to women from 23-28, you can talk fitness, or funny stories about your roommates, etc.

Just make sure your stories are relatable to the women. It will get them more engaged and they will probably either rattle a story off of their own or ask you questions about your story.

[subterfuge]

Do you go into them straight from the open like mystery?

''Hey, who lies more bla bla bla....anyway, get this. Me and my ex girlfriend who's a top model were hitchhiking in Wyoming when we came across a grizzly bear that I saved her from bla bla bla'' type thing?

[Remington]

I let all the stories happen organically. For example, I was on a date with a Latina girl last weekend, we were talking about how she loves to cook. I told her she needs to make me something. She mentions paella, and I immediately go to this:

"Oh man, I haven't had Paella since I was in Spain a few years ago. I had it in Madrid, Seville, and Marbella. I enjoyed Seville's paella the most because they threw in so many different meats and seafood. The spices they threw in made it taste incredible. They also paired it with a very good Spanish wine in this hole in a wall restaurant that took me forever to find."

She then started quizzing me with places I visited in Spain, we talked about the food and culture and how it differed from South America.

If I try to force a story, it makes me self conscious in that I seem like a try hard.

[subterfuge]

(11-16-2017 12:21 PM)Remington Wrote:  

If I try to force a story, it makes me self conscious in that I seem like a try hard.

Yeah, I kind of agree, but if you cold approach a girl at a bar (instead of a date) then are you not kind of forced to quickly jump straight into a DHV story very fast? Otherwise she might just eject before you've had a chance?
Like, I might have an interaction that's like:
''Hey! I saw you and had to introduce myself. I'm sub
''Hi''
''What are you up too tonight?
'''not much. Anyway. Nice meeting you. bye''

And then people will say that I needed to DHV, but then that would mean forcing the story almost straight away.

[Remington]

Bars are loud due to crowd and/or the music. It's pretty difficult to cold approach a set and screaming your opener to her, then going into a story. It doesn't work too well in that situation.

Now, if you are at more of a lounge where it's a more chill, then you can break out a little bit with stories.

Example,
sub: Hey, I saw you and had to introduce myself, I'm sub.
Her: Hi!
sub: That looks good, what is that (pointing at her drink)?
Her: Oh, its a rum punch!
sub: Oh nice, haven't had one of those since I went spearfishing in the Gulf.
Her: Whoa, spearfishing?
sub: Yea...story time, story time, story time.

[Hazaer]

@remington, how do you then open in bars/clubs?

Had very similar convos to that in subterfuge's post way too much. There has got to be an impactful opener for clubs. Things like 'how is it going/need an opinion about.../jokes' don't seem to work these days.

I suspect its not even about the volume in the venue anymore, the idea that they are in a club brings out a different kind of expectation in a girl and I am not how verbal game fits into that if there is a dancefloor nearby.

[EmotionalGeek]

I often go to club with dancefloor and moderately loud music. Because I'm quickly bored by dancing I talk with girl from get go. Often I can't escalate to much in this club but I aim for dates and FWB relationships.

[Remington]

(11-22-2017 02:48 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

@remington, how do you then open in bars/clubs?

Had very similar convos to that in subterfuge's post way too much. There has got to be an impactful opener for clubs. Things like 'how is it going/need an opinion about.../jokes' don't seem to work these days.

I suspect its not even about the volume in the venue anymore, the idea that they are in a club brings out a different kind of expectation in a girl and I am not how verbal game fits into that if there is a dancefloor nearby.

First off, I avoid clubs like the plague. I've never liked going to clubs, I don't ever want to go to another club.

If I'm at a bar or a lounge, I usually approach based on the atmosphere. If I see a good looking girl at a packed bar trying to order a drink, I'll stand next to her, and I'll open.

You can bet her that you'll get served first because the bartender always sees the people who stand out (height). You can spin it the other way that she will get served first because she is a woman and guys always get the shaft.

Or, you can tell her that you go to this bar all the time and you're surprised it's not crowded/jammed wall to wall.

You don't need to follow a set approach formula that will statistically give you a 67.9573812% success rate.

My openers aren't special, but they work because they are casual.


When I'm at a bar, I'll talk to anyone. People go there to be social. If you can hold conversation with your friends along with random people, you'll be fine.

Put out a fun vibe and people will be more receptive to you starting conversation.

Attitude is everything.

[subterfuge]

(11-22-2017 01:25 PM)Remington Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 02:48 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

@remington, how do you then open in bars/clubs?

Had very similar convos to that in subterfuge's post way too much. There has got to be an impactful opener for clubs. Things like 'how is it going/need an opinion about.../jokes' don't seem to work these days.

I suspect its not even about the volume in the venue anymore, the idea that they are in a club brings out a different kind of expectation in a girl and I am not how verbal game fits into that if there is a dancefloor nearby.

First off, I avoid clubs like the plague. I've never liked going to clubs, I don't ever want to go to another club.

If I'm at a bar or a lounge, I usually approach based on the atmosphere. If I see a good looking girl at a packed bar trying to order a drink, I'll stand next to her, and I'll open.

You can bet her that you'll get served first because the bartender always sees the people who stand out (height). You can spin it the other way that she will get served first because she is a woman and guys always get the shaft.

Or, you can tell her that you go to this bar all the time and you're surprised it's not crowded/jammed wall to wall.

You don't need to follow a set approach formula that will statistically give you a 67.9573812% success rate.

My openers aren't special, but they work because they are casual.


When I'm at a bar, I'll talk to anyone. People go there to be social. If you can hold conversation with your friends along with random people, you'll be fine.

Put out a fun vibe and people will be more receptive to you starting conversation.

Attitude is everything.

Not to get away from the DHV topic, but do you do anything in particular in terms of conversation after opening a girl at the bar in in order to transition and hook the set?

I read so much conflicting info on this.

For example, the RSD crew (in particular, Julien and Max) seem to generally just go straight into what some describe as 'interview mode' or boring chat (name/age/what they are up too/job)

Mystery of course was all about jumping straight into some sort of routine like a palm reading thing or whatever

Guys at seddit say you need to make assumptions (not that you can really assume much about a girl in bar who is dressed like every other girl within 20 seconds of meeting her) and that any questions need to be 'not boring' (im not sure what qould qualify. Maybe 'what would you do if you won the lottery?!' but that sounds super autistic after opening a stranger to me!)

I'm yet to find the trick after a good thousand approaches! If only I could 'hook' easily, I think my results would improve, because my 'mid game' seems to be naturally OK, but I never get a chance to demonstrate it lol

[Remington]

If a girl is truly interested in the conversation, she will lead. If she is the one asking you questions and providing more than one word answers to your questions, the conversation should flow easily.

If I know the conversation is going nowhere or she is responding passively, I will eject.

I don't do that "interview mode" shit because that's not my style.

I'll keep the interaction going with humor because people think I'm funny due to the random shit that comes out of my mouth. When I say something, I don't care how people react. If I find it funny, I'll say it.


Edit: I live in a very liberal cunty area, I offend and piss off a lot of people, that includes friends and acquaintances alike. If they are going to act like sensitive pussies, then fuck them.

[subterfuge]

''If she is the one asking you questions and providing more than one word answers to your questions, the conversation should flow easily.''

Exactly - It's just that this rarely happens to me! It's often an absolute dog fight.

SO i guess after I open, and need to go straight into better 'stuff' than just asking them their name and stuff like the RSD guys do, but I don't really know what.
Do you have any recent examples you can share to help get my brain working?

[Remington]

When I first get into a bar; depending on the size, I sometimes do a once around. I try to gauge interest as well as how the crowd interacts.

When I see the IOIs, I'll engage. Does it always work? Absolutely not. Do I always have something witty to say? Fuck no; I have my good approaches and my lousy ones.

Unfortunately, I don't have a 2+2=4 formula. I pull most of the shit out of my ass.

Example:

I walked up to the bar the other night to order a drink. There was a girl standing next to me bragging about her swimming times.

I used to be a pretty baller ass swimmer from many years ago. I opened with "So Katie Ledecky is your bitch, huh?"

She whipped around real quick and said something like "I never said anything like that!" Or some shit like that, I didn't bother to pay attention to that answer.

"So does that mean YOU are her bitch? I'm so lost."

She laughed it up and said she swam for some school I didn't care about and did some strokes I also didn't care about hearing. Don't really remember.

We ended up talking/arguing about swimming and crap like that and I got her number.

Just find common ground.

[HankMoody]

Story from yesterday...

I took the week off and decided to day drink. Called a plate and told her to meet me at the local jazz cafe, which is a cool spot. There's live music, and it's open for lunch. Plate is a bit older (37). Not to brag, but I have a reputation for dating and socializing with younger women, most of whom are in the service industry. (There's actually a 23 year old sleeping on my couch as I type this.)

So we're sitting and having a conversation, just about general stuff, and all is well. I'm getting close to "let's get outta here", but she starts getting more and more drunk.

"Hank, I think you're insecure."
"Oh."
"You act like a big shot on your phone all the time, talking to all the local politicians and bar owners, but I think you're insecure. That's why you only date younger women."
"Thank you for sharing your opinion."
"And you have terrible manners!"
"..."
"Manners are free! You should use them!"
"Good thing I'm not poor, and I don't really care if you don't approve of how I conduct myself." (said with a grin, not like I'm pissed).
"Now you're on your phone! Who are you texting?"
"I'm calling an Uber."
"Where are we going?"
"I'm going to meet up with some friends. I do not know where you're going."
"See, you are insecure! As soon as a girl gets 'real' with you, you just get upset. You can't handle real women! You just want to hang out with your little poptarts who fawn all over you."
"Honey, I'm not upset, but you'll have to pardon my candor. You're boring me. This conversation is boring me. I'd rather spend my day around pleasant people having pleasant conversation."

I hopped in an Uber and met up with my friends for a day of libations. She texted me immediately after I left.

And of course, she's texted me like 20 times today...

Eventually DHV just becomes a natural thing. Life is too short to spend it with annoying people.

[Hazaer]

(11-22-2017 01:25 PM)Remington Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 02:48 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

@remington, how do you then open in bars/clubs?

Had very similar convos to that in subterfuge's post way too much. There has got to be an impactful opener for clubs. Things like 'how is it going/need an opinion about.../jokes' don't seem to work these days.

I suspect its not even about the volume in the venue anymore, the idea that they are in a club brings out a different kind of expectation in a girl and I am not how verbal game fits into that if there is a dancefloor nearby.

First off, I avoid clubs like the plague. I've never liked going to clubs, I don't ever want to go to another club.

If I'm at a bar or a lounge, I usually approach based on the atmosphere. If I see a good looking girl at a packed bar trying to order a drink, I'll stand next to her, and I'll open.

You can bet her that you'll get served first because the bartender always sees the people who stand out (height). You can spin it the other way that she will get served first because she is a woman and guys always get the shaft.

Or, you can tell her that you go to this bar all the time and you're surprised it's not crowded/jammed wall to wall.

You don't need to follow a set approach formula that will statistically give you a 67.9573812% success rate.

My openers aren't special, but they work because they are casual.


When I'm at a bar, I'll talk to anyone. People go there to be social. If you can hold conversation with your friends along with random people, you'll be fine.

Put out a fun vibe and people will be more receptive to you starting conversation.

Attitude is everything.

(11-22-2017 07:07 PM)Remington Wrote:  

When I first get into a bar; depending on the size, I sometimes do a once around. I try to gauge interest as well as how the crowd interacts.

When I see the IOIs, I'll engage. Does it always work? Absolutely not. Do I always have something witty to say? Fuck no; I have my good approaches and my lousy ones.

Unfortunately, I don't have a 2+2=4 formula. I pull most of the shit out of my ass.

Example:

I walked up to the bar the other night to order a drink. There was a girl standing next to me bragging about her swimming times.

I used to be a pretty baller ass swimmer from many years ago. I opened with "So Katie Ledecky is your bitch, huh?"

She whipped around real quick and said something like "I never said anything like that!" Or some shit like that, I didn't bother to pay attention to that answer.

"So does that mean YOU are her bitch? I'm so lost."

She laughed it up and said she swam for some school I didn't care about and did some strokes I also didn't care about hearing. Don't really remember.

We ended up talking/arguing about swimming and crap like that and I got her number.

Just find common ground.

I agree that clubs are not the best for game, especially verbal. But most guys who are not aware of game, think clubs are better after looking at the girls who just want to show off so if you are rolling with other guys sometimes, clubs become part of the agenda through majority decision.

Nice opener about the 'who will get served first' game. Will try.

Why did you not isolate with the swimmer girl? This might be a drawback about bars/lounges for same night closing, there has got to be another venue change to a club or something and that is not easy to accomplish especially with all her friends.

[Kieran]

I don't tell any DHV stories. Far better to be able to just vibe with her without trying to impress, and then that is the DHV in and of itself. Going into some story kills the vibe between the two of you, better to let things that are impressive come out naturally.

[BadgerHut]

Think about DHV stories in another way:

If you were going to write ~3 quick vignettes that showed you in a good light to the listener, what would they be? How would you express the positives to a listener in a way they would care about?

Likewise, if you imagined your closest friends/crew/wingmen were going to relay a few good stories about you, would they have positive DHV themes, esp hitting the basic attraction markers (physical prowess, leader of men, useful expertise, risk-taking, etc) or would they make you sound like a rube or a simpleton or a jackass or something not-attractive like that?

Don't think about telling the stories. Think about what the stories should express. If you don't like what they express, go "write" some new stories by tweaking how you live.

[HankMoody]

I've come to the conclusion that "DHV stories" do more harm than good. While it's cool that you beat up 50 dudes at one time to protect your girlfriend, took home two strippers after they were being harassed by a local politician, and single handedly saved Gothem City from the Joker, it also comes off like you're trying too hard to impress her.

Make her do most of the taking, which puts the impetus on her to impress you. Put the entire conversation on her. Don't ever talk about yourself.

Relying on mystery to build attraction is far more interesting to her than telling stories of your greatness.

I keep using clips from this movie (which is generally worth watching), but it's awesome game advice -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ms1YK5cvi8

[Kieran]

^ Agreed.

If she's not attracted by how you look, move, speak, and make her feel through conversation, then logical facts about you from some story aren't going to make her attracted (in fact the harder you try, the less attracted she becomes usually). I'd rather tell a story that's either funny, makes me relatable for comfort purposes, spikes her emotions in some way, and maybe even makes me look bad if anything because trying to impress is weak.

Even more, let's say a girl brings up a topic where you could say something impressive about yourself. Let's say she tells you she speaks some foreign language, and you happen to speak several foreign languages. Far better not to mention that you do and just dig deeper with her, e.g. how she came to speak it, and so on (this is also where you get the material out of her that you can use to play with her emotions, build a connection, or qualify her). She should be trying to impress you, not the other way round, and to be honest taking the spotlight off her, when she obviously wants to impress you and have her moment, is just bad social skills.

[Mountain Man]

(11-24-2017 09:11 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Relying on mystery to build attraction is far more interesting to her than telling stories of your greatness.

I keep using clips from this movie (which is generally worth watching), but it's awesome game advice -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ms1YK5cvi8

Except for that "always buy her a drink" stuff, this is gold! Anyone divorced should see this move. Actually, everyone should see this movie. Haven't seen it in a while, thanks for the nudge!