[SamuelBRoberts]

Yeah that's what you always hear. I can't count how many times I've had this conversation.

"These idiots got caught with a nasty security flaw in their code. When they got caught out they said it was 'a security measure'. When Vitalik Buterin called them on this they said he didn't know about cryptocurrencies to criticize him."

"Dude you just don't understand the TANGLE!"

You have not the slightest idea who I am, what my background is, what I've read about IOTA or its team, what I know about Directed Acyclic Graphs, the Internet of Things, cryptography, formal proofs, game theory as it relates to cryptocurrencies, centralized control, security through obscurity or a billion other relevant fields. You just know that I think your coin is a joke, and because of that I must "have no idea".

IOTA is an idiot coin, made by idiots, sold by idiots, and touted by idiots. It is going up because it uses lots of shiny buzzwords that are attractive to idiots, (Ternary Computing!) and there are a lot of idiots in the world. But it's nothing more than that.

[yaku]

(11-28-2017 11:28 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

You have not the slightest idea who I am, what my background is, what I've read about IOTA or its team, what I know about Directed Acyclic Graphs, the Internet of Things, cryptography, formal proofs, game theory as it relates to cryptocurrencies, centralized control, security through obscurity or a billion other relevant fields. You just know that I think your coin is a joke, and because of that I must "have no idea".
.

Microsoft and the dozens of other companies involved in IOTA disagree with your arguments. And your unhinged posts show me who you are, I don't give a shit about your background.

You sound exactly like the "bitcoin is a ponzi" crowd.

[JayJuanGee]

(11-28-2017 10:48 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

I love it. Multiple paragraphs laying out in detail the problems with IOTA, and the response is "Oh yeah? Well they've partnered with Thondheim Kommune and the Enexis group!"

It's an idiot coin, built by idiots and sold to idiots. Doesn't mean you can't make money off it, because of course you can make money off of any coin in this ridiculous bull market. But it's an idiot coin.

You can make money as long as you ensure that you have a way to liquidate on your own terms, and perhaps have more than one way to liquidate because you don't want some nutjobs who are controlling the various issues with the coin to be impeding your possible only way to liquidate if shit seems to be hitting the fan.

[JayJuanGee]

(11-28-2017 11:23 AM)yaku Wrote:  

Oh no, Fujitsu obviously doesn't read Samuel's posts. Tell them it's a scam coin, Samuel!

Quote:

“The possibilities of applications based on Blockchain and especially Tangle (“next generation Blockchain”) are immense. Providing public access to valuable data is one of the most pressing challenges within IOT. The Data Marketplace of the IOTA Foundation is one of the most innovative initiatives in this area. As one of the world’s largest IT companies, Fujitsu is strongly supportive by developing Blockchain and Tangle-based offerings and actively integrating them as scalable solutions into the ecosystems of our customers.”

Microsoft didn't either.

Quote:

Up-and-coming cryptocurrency startup IOTA has partnered with Microsoft, Fujitsu, and twenty more companies to launch the first publicly accessible data marketplace for the Internet of Things. What makes this undertaking especially intriguing is that the marketplace will be entirely powered by a distributed ledger.

The initiative, which will allow stakeholders to share and monetize their data in a secure way, aims to demonstrate a proof of concept for a tamper-proof data marketplace. Once uploaded to IOTA’s decentralized ledger, all data is distributed to countless nodes in order to ensure immutability.

In summary, yaku, what you are doing is called appealing to authority. If you have a case, then probably it is better to attempt to put it in your own words, and certainly juxtaposing in the claims of authorities can help your factual and argument renditions in various ways, but blanketly asserting that x authority says this and y authority says that does not do a very good job of giving perspective that might be your attempt to set forth what they are saying while putting it a context from your perspective (if you have one besides merely believing that IOTA is the greatest thing since sliced bread).

By the way, I did see that you asserted that IOTA is in its early stages, and therefore suggesting that part of it's value is possibly getting in before others and realizing price appreciation - but surely, it seems important to address the possible ways that you might avoid getting scammed out of your money, which seems a bit difficult too, based on some of the IOTA history that has been outlined by SamR.

[yaku]

Jay, showing the comments of major companies who are working with IOTA is not "appealing to authority".

It does, however, show that whoever says "IOTA is an idiot coin, made by idiots, sold by idiots, and touted by idiots" has self-identified himself as an uninformed idiot whose idiotic opinions can safely be ignored.

[JayJuanGee]

(11-28-2017 04:35 PM)yaku Wrote:  

Jay, showing the comments of major companies who are working with IOTA is not "appealing to authority".

It does, however, show that whoever says "IOTA is an idiot coin, made by idiots, sold by idiots, and touted by idiots" has self-identified himself as an uninformed idiot whose idiotic opinions can safely be ignored.

Perhaps you are having some difficulties understanding the concept of "appealing to authorities." Of course, I have had some beefs with SamR; however, he engages in much more factual representation, analysis and attempts at grappling with the issues as compared to some news spin-offs coming from supposed experts (namely fujitsu and microsoft, in your earlier referred to posts).

I think that we also tend to give some appreciation to the renditions and guys on the forum, and especially if they are attempting to grapple with the issues rather than spitting out blurbs from other supposed experts who we don't know but we are just supposed to take the word of Microsoft or Fujitsu.. seems to be a text book definition of appealing to authority.

As I had suggested in my earlier post, it is possible that you could overcome some of the "appeal to authority" criticism by going through some of your own analysis that grapples with the facts and perhaps addresses several of the issues that had been brought up by SamR in his earlier posts... without necessarily getting caught up in the conclusions that SamR reached (regarding the idiot matters) but instead discuss some of the issues that he presented regarding the seemingly lack of transparency of the IOTA folks and is there any way that you can rest assured that IOTA is a longer term investment, rather than something that you hope to be able to get in and out of without getting caught on the short end?

[yaku]

Jay, it appears you are having your own difficulties understanding how these forums work. You cry like a little girl every time someone brings up an alt-coin in the bitcoin thread. Now you come over here demanding I make my points the way you think I should make my points. It doesn't work that way. You don't get to decide how one makes an argument.

You seem to think I owe you answers because I don't buy your arguments. I don't. Your points on IOTA outdated, over the top, hysterical, and un-informed. You've shown an amazing unwillingness to listen to other viewpoints regarding alt-coins. So why should I, or anyone, bother explaining things to you?

Let's make a deal. You and Samuel are free to call IOTA an idiot coin pushed only by idiots. I'm free to use real world examples why it isn't an idiot coin pushed only by idiots. Agreed?

[JayJuanGee]

(11-28-2017 06:45 PM)yaku Wrote:  

Jay, it appears you are having your own difficulties understanding how these forums work. You cry like a little girl every time someone brings up an alt-coin in the bitcoin thread. Now you come over here demanding I make my points the way you think I should make my points. It doesn't work that way. You don't get to decide how one makes an argument.

You seem to think I owe you answers because I don't buy your arguments. I don't. Your points on IOTA outdated, over the top, hysterical, and un-informed. You've shown an amazing unwillingness to listen to other viewpoints regarding alt-coins. So why should I, or anyone, bother explaining things to you?

Let's make a deal. You and Samuel are free to call IOTA an idiot coin pushed only by idiots. I'm free to use real world examples why it isn't an idiot coin pushed only by idiots. Agreed?

You come off as a bit presumptuous if you really believe that I am struggling to understand how this particular forum works, and really I see no purpose in making any kind of deal with you regarding how you present your tangled mess of IOTA or how I discuss your seeming lackings in such regard.

If there were any merit to IOTA, which, currently, I am having considerable doubts, then perhaps some RVFer would be able to step up to the plate to explain matters, because it surely is not clear on its face or from any of the discussions that I have seen so far, including what you have said, but it does seem like there continue to be more than just you (amongst) RVFers who are willing to invest in (or perhaps pump and dump) this particular project... and hopefully they are hedging properly or at least more clear about how they are NOT going to get screwed over by something that seems to be a tangle of a mess (pun intended).

[yaku]

Reposting this since the Bitcoin fanboys FUDed up the waters over here today.

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2017/11/...ocurrency/

Microsoft and IOTA launch first cryptocurrency market for the Internet of Things

Up-and-coming cryptocurrency startup IOTA has partnered with Microsoft, Fujitsu, and twenty more companies to launch the first publicly accessible data marketplace for the Internet of Things. What makes this undertaking especially intriguing is that the marketplace will be entirely powered by a distributed ledger.

The initiative, which will allow stakeholders to share and monetize their data in a secure way, aims to demonstrate a proof of concept for a tamper-proof data marketplace. Once uploaded to IOTA’s decentralized ledger, all data is distributed to countless nodes in order to ensure immutability.

IOTA is currently the ninth biggest cryptocurrency by market share on Coin Market Cap, boasting a market cap of $2.95 billion. What is notable is that IOTA uses an interesting new technique to distribute and decentralize its ledger. Unlike standard blockchain technology used by most companies, IOTA relies on a method it calls Tangle.

Compared to blockchain, IOTA co-founders Dominik Schiener and David Sønstebø claim Tangle offers free transactions and much better scaling opportunities.

Those curious to see how Tangle works in practice can check out this visual demo of how the network scales.

“We are very excited to announce the launch of our data marketplace,” said Sønstebø. “This will act as a catalyst for a whole new paradigm of research, artificial intelligence, and democratization of data.”

In addition to Microsoft and Fujitsu, a number of other high-profile companies – including Deutsche Telekom, Bosch, Accenture, and PwC – will also participate in the demo.

“We are excited to partner with the IOTA Foundation and proud to be associated with its new data marketplace initiative,” said Microsoft blockchain specialist Omkar Naik.

“This next generation [sic] technology will accelerate the connected, intelligent world and go beyond blockchain that will foster innovation real world solutions, applications and pilots for our customers,” he continued.

The marketplace demo will run until January. IOTA has promised to release a series of blog posts and case studies to showcase the various ways in which companies and individuals can benefit from using its technology.

Ordinary netizens will also have a chance to sell their data on the marketplace by connecting their IoT devices to the IOTA ledger. This will enable them to cash in on various data like weather station statistics and more.

[semibaron]

Guys, can we stop the unproductive fighting? i mean, in the end we all care about our returns in fiat. Fucking cryptocurrencies aren't religion. The whole market is going up and the only difference among the projects is if you are going to make a 3x or 10x return over a period of time.

This thread has been started by me, because I think IOTA has a better risk:reward ration than other projects and I want fellow forum members to educate about the possibility. Then lets's go over the current pros, cons and controversies of IOTA again.


Controversies

IOTA has one master node and is centralized

In the current state, this is true. There is a master node, called Coordinator (Coo), which helps verify every transaction and issues milestones / timestamps. The source code is not public yet, but the foundation said to make it open source in December.

Let's remember how IOTA works. There aren't miners, blocks or a block issuing service as in traditional blockchains. Instead every user serves as a validator and verifies two previous transactions with every transaction made. If you aren't familiar yet with IOTA continue to read here. Important to note, that PoW isn't artificial high nor does the difficulty adjust dynamically, so even a Raspberry Pie can do the required PoW within a couple of seconds. This however does open a door for a Sybill attack during the protocols infancy state (currently) as an malicious actor could introduce many cheap nodes and overtake the network. That's what the Coo protects against right now.


IOTA uses a ternary base, which is fucking stupid as all currently available hardware only handles binary code. Even more, they roll their own cryptography

IOTA is programmed using a ternary base and needs to be compiled to binary by a custom compiler written by the team. This causes performance loss and makes development more difficult. On the other hand, ternary code executed by ternary hardware has slightly better performance, and more importantly requires significantly less power consumption. This is critical for those resource restricted IoT devices. Consequently, Curl, a new, lightweight and ternary based cryptography has been developed by the IOTA team.

The answer to this is Jinn, a hardware project for distributed computing. Jinn was actually already long in the works before the team decided to launch IOTA. A couple of days ago, CfB (the brain behind) stated that one Jinn will cost $0.99. It's speculated that Jinn will be manufactured by Bosch in their new semiconductor fabric in Dresden.

Further explanations: https://blog.iota.org/the-transparency-c...aa5bb8e260



Pros

Major exchanges still to list IOTA

IOTA is a top 10 coin with substantial daily trade volume. Such a major coin obviously is very attractive for any exchange to list. There are still a lot of major exchanges to list IOTA in the upcoming weeks and months. Bittrex, Bithumb, BitFlyer, Bitstamp and so on. The potential increase in demand speaks for itself.


IOTA data marketplace will increase demand for IOTA tokens

The IOTA foundation announced the IOTA data marketplace in collaboration with many of the largest companies just a couple of days ago. Data on the market place can only be purchased with IOTA tokens, which in return will increase the demand for those. You know, a real world use case...


Building your own hardware is crazy? Maybe, but if it takes off than it really takes off

The general purpose CPU Jinn, which is build for distributed computing and the IoT, will have an ASIC for IOTA's PoW integrated. In case, Jinn really gains some traction, IOTA would be all over the place. To be fair, this is speculative, but RoI would be out of this world.


Inventor of PoS on the team

In late 2013, a mysterious guy named BCNext announced the first PoS coin NXT. It has beenproved that CfB (again, the brain behind Jinn & IOTA) is BCNext.



Cons

Security holes in the source code

Yes, there has been at least one security hole in the Curl code, which was detected by the MIT. Worse, the IOTA foundation claimed that the security hole has been introduced on purpose and there might be even more.


The current wallet

The current desktop wallet sucks big time, no question about that. There is nothing more to say about it just that's nothing more than a Minimal Viable Product. Nevertheless, there is light at the end of the tunnel. The University College London (UCL) is about to build a complete new wallet from the scratch. Look it up here and here.


Ok, that's it. I hope my post clarified a couple of things and controversies around IOTA. As I said, I think IOTA is a superior investment in the crypto currency space and therefore one should have an eye on it. As always, make your own mind!

[yaku]

An IOTA article from Germany, translated into English. IOTA tokens will be needed to buy data from the digital marketplace.

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/...04379.html

The group that developed the cryptocurrency IOTA is currently testing a marketplace with over 20 well-known companies as participants. There sensor data of devices are to be available for purchase.

The IOTA Foundation is testing a digital marketplace for the sensor data of Internet of Things (IoT) devices. Participants in the project include more than 20 well-known companies , including Deutsche Telekom, Fujitsu and Microsoft. The marketplace should allow users to sell sensor data and buy.

According to a McKinsey study referred to in the announcement by the IOTA Foundation, only 1 percent of data generated by IoT devices is currently being used - 99 percent are unused. The marketplace should therefore make it possible to monetize this unused data and to make it easily accessible to others. Specific application examples are not yet available from the IOTA Foundation. These should follow in the next few weeks and be discovered by the testers of the platform.

Another proof of concept
Currently, the marketplace is in a proof-of-concept phase that runs until the end of January and is freely accessible to everyone . In the coming weeks, the IOTA Foundation also wants to publish an API to make its own sensor data available.

However, the first sensor data are already available and can be paid for with a virtual wallet. Currently, the users do not incur any real costs, the information is only for illustrative purposes during the experiment. However, it can already be guessed that the preferred currency will be the in-house crypto currency IOTA , on whose technology the marketplace is also based.

The cryptocurrency IOTA
The IOTA Foundation has developed the cryptocurrency IOTA, which, in contrast to better known cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, does not rely on blockchain but on a concept called Tangle . While the blockchain is structured as a sequential chain, the tangle is a so-called directed acyclic graph (DAG, from English for "directed acyclic graph"). With this concept, the validation of the transactions can run in parallel.

As a result, with a growing number of participants, the confirmation times for a transaction should decrease. Unlike Bitcoin, for example, every participant in the network participates in the validation process - whoever executes a transaction first has to validate two others. As a result, the network remains decentralized, transaction fees should be avoided.

Fast transactions
This will enable IOTA to be able to execute transactions very quickly and without transaction fees. Because IoT device data is needed in real-time, a marketplace based on block-of-work with proof-of-work mining would be impractical: transactions would take too long and costs would be too high. With the Tangle, however, large amounts of transactions should be carried out very quickly and at no cost, which is ideal for the rapid reuse of the sensor data.

The digital marketplace of IOTA is likely to be another reason for a growing cry for cryptocurrencies. The price of IOTA rose in November from 30 cents to currently 1.30 US dollars . Only a few days ago Bitcoin cracked for the first time the $ 10,000 mark . ( bbo )

[SamuelBRoberts]

Who's going to be putting data on this marketplace, and who will be buying it?

[yaku]

It says it right in the article.

Quote:

Participants in the project include more than 20 well-known companies , including Deutsche Telekom, Fujitsu and Microsoft. The marketplace should allow users to sell sensor data and buy.

[SamuelBRoberts]

What's some sensor data that they're going to sell, and who's going to buy it?

[yaku]

Here's a good wrapup of upcoming news for Iota.

https://www.crypto-news.net/december-loo...ilestones/

IOTA enthusiasts and investors have a lot to be thankful for coming out of the Thanksgiving weekend. At the beginning of November, IOTA was trading at just ~$0.33 on many major exchanges, but experienced an increase to nearly $1.00 a few weeks later. At the time of writing, the cryptocurrency has an average valuation of $1.26 after surging to an all time high of $1.56 on the 29th.

The recent wind in IOTA’s sails comes from a gust of positive developments and promising partnerships. Trading momentum began building after a November 27th tweet announced that the popular Korean exchange “Coinone” would begin listing IOTA/KRW trading pairs. Western investors reacted favorably to the news, as IOTA’s valuation pumped above the $1.00 threshold. The exchange now accounts for almost 5% of the crypto asset’s overall trading volume, dwarfing OkDex, IOTA’s other Korean host, which accounts for 0.53%

Many would attribute this price increase to pure speculation, as the positive response revolves around trading dynamics and exchange listings. But IOTA’s recent collaboration with the world’s top tech companies shows that there are plenty of reasons to believe that IOTA has a bright future on its horizon.

In another November 27th announcement, Crowdfund Insider tweeted at 10:09pm EST that the world’s largest Finetech Hub, Lattice80 will partner with IOTA to help its team launch their new innovation lab. The following morning, IOTA kept the good news rolling, announcing joint partnerships with Microsoft, Fujitsu, Bosch, and 19 other companies. The collaboration’s goal is to establish a platform for the first ever Internet of Things marketplace. This marketplace will be publicly accessible and powered by a distributed ledger, and they hope to launch a demo in January of 2018.

The Lattice80 partnership and Internet of Things marketplace are impressive milestones in their own right and they could mark the beginning of a stellar end-of-the-year stretch for IOTA’s development. A leaked screenshot of a November 12th #Slack conversation indicates as much. In the chat, IOTA founder David Sønstebø implied that only 10% of the company’s 2017 news had been released. Disregarding the recent Lattice80 and marketplace news, this would mean that 90% of 2017’s announcements are set for December.

If you doubt December will mean a monsoon of news for IOTA, a November 30th AMA on The Next Web may dispel those doubts. In the Q&A, David Sønstebø and Dominik Schiener offered a brief peek into the promising developments coming in December. When asked by an investor what the public should expect in terms of future partnerships and announcements, Dominik responded with a succinct “Quite a lot,” and in an earlier answer, he conveyed that these “strategic partnerships” will aim to “help the network grow.” He also revealed that IOTA plans to meetup with Microsoft in Paris on December 14th.

As if IOTA didn’t fill its plate after the Thanksgiving holiday, December looks like it has even more goodies in store for the company and its fanbase. As we move into December, expect further news and optimistic developments. It may seem like Christmas has come early, but there are plenty of stockings left to be stuffed.

[NewMeta]

Congratz to anyone holding IOTA right now, you have made some serious gains, I hope no one here was convinced otherwise and dropped their bags too early. IOTA is now the #5 cryptocurrency in market CAP just under Ripple.

[yaku]

Up to $3.40 now.

Nearly $6 at Coinone, the Korean exchange.

Apparently lots of demand in Korea.

[gework]

(12-05-2017 02:19 PM)yaku Wrote:  

Up to $3.40 now.

Nearly $6 at Coinone, the Korean exchange.

Apparently lots of demand in Korea.

Thanks. I didn't know of this hot arbitrage option.

What are your takes for the next big pumps? I've ridden Cash (4X), IOTA (5X), EOS (8X), SAN (10X). Now looking at pumps for EDO, AVT, maybe DATA. Just sent more $, but I don't know what to choose.

[yaku]

I don't do day to day trading so I'm the wrong one to ask. But I am big on OMG, think it's going to get hot once they actually start putting their product out to the public. Hopefully that will happen by the end of the month.

Nice score on the other pumps. Kicking myself for not going harder on IOTA when it was clear to me it was going to explode.

[Fortis]

IOTA at 4.82 on binance right now. Kicking myself for not snapping it up when it was at like $.80 a few days ago. Ah well, live and learn. I hope some of the bros in this thread snapped it up.

[semibaron]

Gentlemen, right now there is only one question left:

Which color should be my new lambo?


black

-or-


yellow

[gework]

(12-05-2017 05:28 PM)yaku Wrote:  

I don't do day to day trading so I'm the wrong one to ask. But I am big on OMG.

Seems you have to have Korean papers to make use of those heady IOTA pumps. I am also looking at OMG. A lot has gone up of late and that is due a pump.

Good pumps on EDO, AVT and DATA in the last 24 hours; all up about 50%.

(12-05-2017 11:14 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

IOTA at 4.82 on binance right now. Kicking myself for not snapping it up when it was at like $.80 a few days ago.

IOTA went down to about $0.50.

[Genghis Khan]

I know Iota is pumping and all - so I'll refrain from telling people not to buy/trade/whatever. But this is something I feel everyone should read:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KyleSamani/st...3803065345

[yaku]

He's talking about a bug that was fixed in August. His Microsoft claim is laughable. And the management team has no problems firing back at its critics, as an earlier exchange with Vitalik showed. Maybe be a bit unprofessional, but I don't see any problem with that.

A functioning IOTA is a threat to the blockchain community. In the future, the PR battle between blockchain and tangle will make the Bitcoin/Bitcoin Cash battle seem like a quaint little argument between friends.

[yaku]

The two founders did an AMA a few days ago. Still a long ways to go for it to be ready, so I imagine the price will slowly bleed down in the coming months. I'm not selling what I have, but I certainly am not going to buy any more while it's above $2.00.


https://answers.thenextweb.com/s/dominik...ebo-d0XXq0

Highlights:


Companies using the IOTA data marketplace will all use the IOTA token - [1];

IOTA founders interested to talk about IOTA to Carl Zeiss AG, German manufacturer of optical systems, industrial measurements and medical devices (~€4.8B revenue 2015/2016) - [2];

Microsoft/IOTA meeting in Paris on December(?) 14th - [3];

No fixed number of TPS needed to shut down coordinator, but said coordinator set to be phased out in favor of a distributed one 'soon' - [4];

Tangle algorithm optimization, security audits, live network pilots deployments and standardization of individual IOTA components are major improvements required before IOTA can be deemed production ready - [5];

IOTA should be close to 'production ready' within 2018 - [6];

IOTA is a part of the "democratization of data" and may be used in the remittances market - [7];

IOTA partnerships will be announced during the month of December - [8];

Founder confident IOTA will function as intended, does not think Ethereum solves same problems as IOTA - [9].

Data Marketplace will run for 2 months before thorough analytics is to be performed, use cases focus to be in: supply chain, mobility, energy, agriculture, insurance and health care - [10].

[/list]