[jcardial]

(08-02-2018 02:39 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 12:31 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Hobbies and books make you smarter and more successful. I've never met a successful man who didn't read books or have hobbies.

Being successful is pussy dynamite.

Ehhhhh...

Look at Anthony Bourdain. Educated, well traveled, wealthy, interesting... and he had a lot of issues with women cucking him.

I know a lot of doctors, lawyers, architects, accountants, engineers, professors, and businessmen who are awful with women. In contrast, I know a lot of "internet CEOs", bartenders, and DJs who clean up. Candidly, I've found the latter does better on the whole.

There are a lot of issues here...

- The most successful men spend their time mostly around other men. My clientele is about 90% men, as are other lawyers who make it in this profession for ten years.
- Most women don't want to actually be intellectually challenged, nor do they have an interest. For the most part, your "smart, independent" women just post stuff about Trump on Facebook and wear pussy hats to protests. Rah rah, abortion good, Trump bad, love trumps hate! Put a picture of us protesting on Instagram! So intellectual.
- Women want excitement and passion. "I drafted these sweet documents" or "I closed a big deal today" just isn't "sexy." "I wrote a new song on my guitar, lets smoke some weed and I'll sing it to you" is.
- Given the amount of variety out there and rise of swipe apps, Instagram, etc., women are favoring good looks over success and well rounded interests. "Wow, he has a good job" isn't as important as how cool his Instagram is. This isn't a complaint, it's simply an observation. Most of my attractive female friends are "industry", and they date other industry guys (with some exceptions).

Roosh put it very well when he said getting women comes down to being a modern day clown. This article pretty much sums it up:

http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-be-a-good-clown

Quote:

"What women want from men is excitement, entertainment, and passion—the things that hit her most primal buttons. Being well-read with philosophy or history doesn’t make her wet, but teasing does. Being a prudent businessman who can close important deals doesn’t turn a girl on, but making her laugh does. Being a balanced human being without any mental disorders won’t get you laid, but having the skill to cold approach random women and display dark triad traits will."

Bourdain is not a great counterexample because he was in a position to get laid way more easily than over 99% of guys his age and from a wide range of women. His problems were arguably more a result of his taste in women (or lack thereof). If he really cared about fidelity he would have just dated a good girl fan rather than a tatted up feminazi poster girl for "me too". Regardless, his level of world fame is way too much of a confounding variable to draw any meaningful conclusions about how being worldly affects your love life.

[The Golden God]

Unrelated but I'm pleasantly surprised at the amount of guys on here in combat sports and BJJ. I train in Muay Thai and BJJ with the intent of fighting MMA soon, there's nothing that tests your will more than fighting.

Early on in an encounter with a woman you're going to have to rely on your game and your looks to get your foot in the door. Plenty of guys on here will tell you that you need to game up until you get the bang, and then after that you'll be able to get some points down the road by slowly revealing these interesting parts of your life.

What do you find more interesting; the girl with the motor mouth who tells you her whole life story while sitting at the bar, or a sexy mysterious girl that leaves you wanting to know more about her?

No girl wants me to walk up to her in the club and talk on and on about my hobbies and all of the things I do that display value. Instead I'm going to pander to her, ask her questions about herself and steer the conversation to topics that arouse her interest. When they have to ask you about your life, which they will eventually do, then drop small bits of info about yourself but DO NOT be an open book thinking that her getting to know all about you will help you out.

[JekyllAndHyde]

I found it is more being at the right place at the right time.

[Belgrano]

In the end, I think what it comes down to is access.

If your hobby or job increases your access to hot girls, it will increase your chances to get laid with hot girls.

Comparing the guys I know who bang 5s and 6s with the guys who bang 8s and 9s, I don't see that much of a difference in terms of looks or game. What I see is a very obvious difference in access. (Same is true for number of notches overall.)

A girl who doesn't know you and has never met you is a girl who won't sleep with you.
A bit like in sales, where a potential customer who doesn't know you exist most certainly won't buy from you.
Obviously. Hence marketing, advertising and PR.

You want to get with more girls?
Go where girls are.
You want to get with hot girls?
Go where hot girls are.
You know where they are, but you can't get there?
You don't have access.

Think of a way or a plan to get access and do it.

When it comes to getting laid, your job and your hobbies are useless if they don't bring you into a situation where you can leverage your looks and your game to your advantage.

[birthday cat]

(08-02-2018 11:33 PM)Tex Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 11:08 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

Guys are getting rejected and rationalizing that these rejections are occurring because women are so dumb.

I think it's more that no girl wants to have a conversation about fucking Socrates when you do a cold approach. Hobbies and interesting things like that don't get you very far is game is what you're worried about, because those things are hard to leverage early on. I can't blame women for that. It's not they're dumb.

(08-02-2018 11:08 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

But if it was so easy to get laid as a bartender with ripped jeans then why wouldn't most of you get a part-time bartender job and buy some ripped jeans?

Because some of us don't want to make a giant life decision solely on if it will get us more net pussy. If you make a lifelong career decision based only on that then you're stupid.

Quote:

What you guys aren't realizing is that all DJs and bartender aren't getting laid. Some of them are doing well and those guys are probably either more attractive than you or have better game than you. And being a professional athlete isn't a hobby.

Here's what everyone is actually saying: you will get more pussy on average working in certain areas.

I guarantee you that DJ me gets more overall pussy than lawyer me, and it would be irrational to just assume a DJ is getting more ass than an attorney because that attorney has worse game.

And yes, being a professional athlete isn't a hobby, which is almost exactly the point of some of these posts.

You seem real concerned with the question these guys are answering.

What you're missing is that while you are answering the basic question, a lot of these guys are answering the basic question and the underlying mindset behind the question, which isn't just will books and hobbies help me get laid, but should I decide to spend my time reading books and having cool hobbies if I am primarily concerned with increasing my game.

So people saying it would be better to be a pro athlete are saying that there are other life choices and things to do besides cool hobbies that will increase the odds for you.

And if you think working in a club gets you less ass than working in an office, you don't know anything about either. That's just a fact. Sure lots of bartenders get no pussy, but if you have anything that even looks like game, you can at least bang a few chicks just from being around them all the time.

Try openly hitting on the nearest sober 35-year-old single mom with the black asshole at your next board meeting and tell me how that is.

I think you misinterpreted a couple of my points.

I didn't say to make a giant life decision and change your career. I said if it is so easy to get laid as a bartender with ripped jeans then why wouldn't most of you get a part-time bartender job and buy some ripped jeans?

The point isn't even to get that job. The point is that stuff isn't binary. Of course being around more girls makes things easier. That is obvious but it's not the only factor. Plenty of bartenders don't get laid and plenty of office guys do get laid. There is a difference in the social skills / game of bartenders versus office guys and there is a huge difference if we are talking about bartenders who get laid and office guys who don't get laid. If an office guy quits his job and becomes a bartender then he is still going to struggle if his social skills and game are lacking.

The bottom line is that being a bartender or DJ is not a panacea and guys need to stop with that bullshit because it's just an excuse and a justification for them to complain about women.

Tex - I wasn't even talking about your previous post in this regard. I understand that you are just going beyond the original question and I've got no problem with that. I'll admit that some of my reasoning for being so harsh is due to what I've read in other threads also so I can understand why I may have seemed to be overreacting.

And it's definitely true that I'm concerned with the specific question these guys are answering because their standard operating procedure is to twist words and sentences in a way that gives them an opportunity to make excuses and complain.

They whine about bartenders and DJs getting all the pussy and how girls aren't interested in their """deep""" conversations which really means that girls aren't interested in their lame ass conversations because those guys don't know how to talk to a girl differently than talking to a man. It's in this thread and other threads. It's always the girl's fault.....and let's also complain about how all western women are all whores and how we can't get laid as if that isn't contradictory.

You guys got to stop trying to make everything binary. Nothing is binary. It's all nuanced. It all depends. Obviously finding new hobbies and reading books isn't a primary activity to focus on if you want to get laid in the short term, but it doesn't hurt either.

However, my experience is that "being interesting" is one of top two things that have given me a lot of success with much younger girls. A lot of that relates to what Golden God said here. You've got to know how to present things. You can't be a douche who tries too hard to prove himself. I've got a good bit of experience with this now and from what I've seen 18-22 year old girls who date guys in their mid-30's and older are specifically looking for guys who are more mature, intelligent and interesting than guys their age so that is another reason that I'm so quick to shut down this nonsense about hobbies and books making precisely no difference whatsoever.

[mr-ed209]

Hobbies can define you and can be useful to leverage status in certain environments - and completely remove your value in others. Converting that into lays is all dependent on how you leverage your qualities. For example a surf instructor guy is going to be treated a lot more casually than the professional lawyer/doctor guy. Surf instructor guy is going to have more value and access to pretty white wanderlusters in say Bali; than lawyer guy would have in the same circumstances. Likewise lawyer guy is likely a hit at the corporate happy hour, lording his wealth and professional status to chicks in HR. The surf instructor is likely to get patronised in this environment.


Mens value is fluid dependant on location and the female group think will collectively decide what is vogue or not in certain environments. You can have all your Freudian philosophy on lock but it's not even going to get you a 2 minute conversation at a beer pong tournament. Likewise your ability to shotgun a beer and do keg stands won't be much use in wooing a girl you've met at some coffee shop book meet. It's important to asses objectively what 'guy' you are to women in certain environments, play to your strengths and you'll get the most success.

[Bluto]

The hobbies portion has been discussed before as Brother Hank as alluded to here. I wanted to put some thought on this before I posted, as I think that hobbies are important to men in that they portray a man's personality more than most. Hobbies by my definition are things that you do in your spare time for yourself. What you do and what you collect in that spare time says a lot about your personality, and interests more than just saying that you are intelligent, strong, or into sports. We as men also bond over activities more than anything else, which is important for a man's sanity.

My perspective is that people confuse hobbies with jobs,(DJ, Bartender, Surfing Instructor, etc.) as well with lifestyle decisions.(lifting weights, running, etc.) Working out in my mind is done so that you can perform at your peak level on hobbies that require a high level of fitness. Lifting weights don't count to me as a hobby, unless you are entering into bodybuilding contests. Likewise being a DJ is not a hobby if you are doing that every weekend at the same location, and getting paid. Side jobs that you think will get you laid are still side jobs. Jobs that get you laid are a different topic, and have their own threads.

Having said that, I have a hobby that bleeds into a paid performance on occasion. When I am at a performance, I am working not doing my hobby. When I am doing my hobby it has a different feel than when I am working. I get into "work mode" when I am at a performance, and not when I am at a hobby event. That difference in modes between working using my hobby and doing my hobby on my time changes my personality and perspective a bit for me. The thing about performances that I have noticed, is that you do get attention from girls because you are displaying confidence and competency in front of them if you perform well. That is my opinion why DJ's and Musicians get the reputation of being drowned in pussy. They can display that confidence and competency at will, and in real time in front of the audience.

(08-02-2018 11:48 AM)birthday cat Wrote:  

If your hobbies and books help you become more physically attractive, confident, intelligent, interesting, and successful - then how could they not help you get laid?

Obviously some of these are going to have much more of an effect with finding a quality girl for a relationship than finding sluts to bang but there are still some examples such as lifting weights and athletics that directly help you get laid.

In most cases there probably needs to be some authenticity in regards to why you are involved in the hobby. Many girls will see through you if you are involved in the hobby just to get laid and many girls will be very attracted to you if you are genuinely passionate about the activity. Good game involves taking a girl through a range of emotions and her feeling the passion and excitement you have for things in your life is an excellent emotion for her to experience.

I don't think it can be repeated enough on this forum that game/women/life isn't binary. Don't oversimplify things. There are guys that will have a lot of great hobbies and do poorly with women but that doesn't mean hobbies can't be influential for you. In most cases that specific guy probably has some other aspect or aspects of his game that are creating problems for him.

I am of the same opinion as birthday cat. It is not the hobby directly that will get you attention of the girl generally. It is the ancillary factors of your hobby that will get the attention. Those ancillary factors demonstrate higher value, not specifically the hobby itself.

It is not the fact that you are someone who likes to go out hiking, fishing, etc. We have the factor that you appear successful in completing the hike, or actually catching fish. The factor that you are competent enough to do those things without having someone to hold your hand while you are doing it. The factor that doing those activities require a certain level of physical fitness in order to so. Finally the factor that by doing a hobby like that gives you general confidence in your life, and those are the ones that I can think of. I think that it was in Mystery's first book where he had as one of his canned material to tell some bullshit story about you facing off with a bear when you were camping. I think that he was on to something, but my critique is to have your own damn stories, not canned stories from him.

[Kid Twist]

(08-03-2018 10:23 AM)Belgrano Wrote:  

In the end, I think what it comes down to is access.

If your hobby or job increases your access to hot girls, it will increase your chances to get laid with hot girls.

Comparing the guys I know who bang 5s and 6s with the guys who bang 8s and 9s, I don't see that much of a difference in terms of looks or game. What I see is a very obvious difference in access. (Same is true for number of notches overall.)

A girl who doesn't know you and has never met you is a girl who won't sleep with you.
A bit like in sales, where a potential customer who doesn't know you exist most certainly won't buy from you.
Obviously. Hence marketing, advertising and PR.

You want to get with more girls?
Go where girls are.
You want to get with hot girls?
Go where hot girls are.
You know where they are, but you can't get there?
You don't have access.

Think of a way or a plan to get access and do it.

When it comes to getting laid, your job and your hobbies are useless if they don't bring you into a situation where you can leverage your looks and your game to your advantage.

I've been echoing this for over a year now. The last two things you say are indeed the key. Travel is probably still the best overall endpoint for this, since you can pull a few end arounds with way more feminine quality women. Western women tend to not be worth more than just "fun" sadly. Thank the coddling culture.

I suspect Belgrano is more right than wrong when he states access trumps xyz rating 6-8 for a guy when it comes down to the 7+ women.

[Bikal]

(08-01-2018 07:11 PM)SteezeySteve Wrote:  

Do you guys think hobbies/sports that make you more well rounded (bjj surfing tennis etc) help you get laid. As in you meet a girl I'm the day/night and you mention you do x not do you think that doing x actually makes you more interestesting and likely to get laid?

I think it's more about the ability to enjoy your hobby with girls as well as become an interesting cultured person.

For example, I read the standard English Literature requirements through school but I've also read various books from French and Russian authors as well as more contemporary works, by no means am I an expert on any of these authors/books but I can talk about them in enough detail to sustain a conversation with a book lover and boy, do they love their books and get turned on by guys who known their stuff!

Likewise I started doing pilates and yoga in order to help with my back issues as well as flexibility, I'm the only guy in the yoga class and the only available guy in the pilates class, the access to women through those classes as been immensely better than any I could expect from day gaming for example.

[wellrockthecity]

(08-25-2018 10:32 AM)Bikal Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:11 PM)SteezeySteve Wrote:  

Do you guys think hobbies/sports that make you more well rounded (bjj surfing tennis etc) help you get laid. As in you meet a girl I'm the day/night and you mention you do x not do you think that doing x actually makes you more interestesting and likely to get laid?

I think it's more about the ability to enjoy your hobby with girls as well as become an interesting cultured person.

For example, I read the standard English Literature requirements through school but I've also read various books from French and Russian authors as well as more contemporary works, by no means am I an expert on any of these authors/books but I can talk about them in enough detail to sustain a conversation with a book lover and boy, do they love their books and get turned on by guys who known their stuff!

Likewise I started doing pilates and yoga in order to help with my back issues as well as flexibility, I'm the only guy in the yoga class and the only available guy in the pilates class, the access to women through those classes as been immensely better than any I could expect from day gaming for example.

I have had the idea of picking up yoga for a while now, mainly to improve my flexibility which is declining as I get older.

What's the game plan like in this environment? Is the classic chat after class and invite for a coffee/outdoor lesson/whatever for another day?
I guess you have to be careful to not be the creepy guy that hits on all the girls as its always same people taking classes?

[tr1cky]

Hard to pickup at yoga. Everyone leaves directly after and if you try to flirt after class everyone knows. Better off day gaming outside a yoga studio, assuming walkers.

Only other option is to be the instructor. I

[Bikal]

(08-25-2018 02:04 PM)wellrockthecity Wrote:  

I have had the idea of picking up yoga for a while now, mainly to improve my flexibility which is declining as I get older.

What's the game plan like in this environment? Is the classic chat after class and invite for a coffee/outdoor lesson/whatever for another day?
I guess you have to be careful to not be the creepy guy that hits on all the girls as its always same people taking classes?

I played it by ear, I didn't attempt anything aside from casual chats with the girls here and there before and after classes, it gradually grew into being able to make it more suggestive without coming across as the creep who took it up for gaming girls.

It was a long game, a real long game before I got my first bang but then I also had an entire new set of girls opened up to me through those girls I did pilates/yoga with and became friends with, strange but it worked although I wouldn't wait so long next time to escalate with girls I'm vibing with.

[DonnyGately]

IMHO chicks dig guys who read books. Girls who read are pleasantly surprised to find a guy who reads, esp if you read more/better than they do.

Girls who don't read feel inferior when they find out you do, and the hamster implores them to find ways to 'prove their worth' to you.

Besides, you don't wanna spend much time with a THOT who netflixes Real Housewives all day.

[beachbum]

Agree with DonnyGately.

Many of my recent hookups have discussed books with me. I can see the attraction increase when they see/hear what I read. I also recommend books and have girls read them, which works especially well when I'm out of the picture for a while, as it keeps me in their mind even if we're not in constant communication.

When I needed more aids I used to leave rough drafts of stories I was writing somewhere a girl I pulled back to my place would notice. Have her read a few lines and it was an instant turn on. This is especially true if you come off as a jock-type, as I do, because girls see you as complex.

Hooking girls is all about building emotional connections. Connect with a girl about philosophy or soccer or anthropology or whatever hobby and you've got something solid to connect with. From there it's not hard to escalate.

And it doesn't matter if girl is smart or dumb, she'll appreciate you for having hobbies and interests.

[The Black Adder]

I would say that any good hobby can get women more aroused in an indirect way, especially if you are a newbie. Women prefer guys who are distracted by various activities in their life and don't hang around all day on Whatsapp/Facebook Messenger/whatever in order to answer their messages immediately, and from my experience, it can be hard to ignore their advances and play cool early on. Having a hobby or side activity that you genuinely enjoy and spend time on makes you a more interesting person AND occupies you so that you don't pay too much attention to women.