How to call women out on their bullshit and stop enabling them to treat you like shit
08-03-2017, 03:44 PM
Hey so this is my first post here and I decided to start it off with a very, very long read, so bear with me.
Last week I ended a fwb relationship that had been going on for about 6 months. Ever since I ended it, I’ve undergone a various post-hoc analysis’ of the situation and as a result the true nature of the relationship has started to unravel, and I’ve started to realize the immense amount of horseshit I was that I was not only putting up with, but enabling. The reason I got rid of her, however, was because I had started catching feelings and she wanted to keep things casual, and I knew I’d just get more hung up on her if I didn’t leave. I believe this attachment to her may have been the main reason as to why I was blind as to how she was treating me at times. You may think that a lack of abundance was my problem, but I had sex with a few other women while seeing her, and had another FWB thing going for the past couple of months. The attachment essentially came from nowhere and I think it was because I wasn’t cognizant about how this girl was torturing me with her bullshit.
Look - I know that ultimately this girl doesn't matter at all, but there have been many times in my life situations like these have happened with women and I was always a doormat who put up with their shit and I don't think I was aware even subconsciously of how much shit I was enabling by not putting my foot down. I believe there are some things to be learned from this situation, and I would like some help in uncovering them.
This girl (who is 20 years old btw) did not value my time. She was late to our first date, late to our second, and generally always took forever to show up. We had a set day and time that we’d generally hang out, and she would always drive over to my place since I lived alone. But there were many occurrences where she would text me and say "I just woke up (she worked 3rd shift, slept in until late afternoons), I have to shower quickly then I'll come over." Then 2 hours would pass and she would be saying she's on the way. (what was she doing this whole time you ask? I don’t know, she didn’t wear makeup or own a lot of clothing). And i'd be sitting around in my home expecting her to show up and not committing to anything big knowing she would be getting here "soon" except often I'd end up idling around for a long period of time.
So enough of a preamble, I'm going to lay out all the BS she did in sequential order, and you’ll notice it only gets worse over time because I enabled it ever since the first few dates.
Example 1: One day we had intended to hang out, she texts me saying she had made plans with her coworker (black lady in her late 20s) to go to lunch with some guy and his uncle for dinner, and that it “might” have been a double date. So she insisted that I join them, and even though I thought it was weird af, I agreed anyway. So guess what? She arrives there perfectly on time. Perhaps the only time she was ever on time to something with me is when she was going to meet some other dudes and compete for her attention (I can only assume this is how it would have gone). But long story short, the two guys never showed up. Make of this what you will, but the entire situation rubbed me the wrong way and it felt very strange. My uncomfortable feelings were mostly due to the fact that she showed up on time for someone else. A few weeks later we incidentally ended up going to the same restaurant again, I arrived on time and she responds with “how punctual.” and shows up almost half an hour late. But I said nothing about either of these instances and instead buried it all inside.
Example 2: I had mentioned wanting to go hiking somewhere next time we hung out to which she agreed, and it was a far enough drive that she would have needed to come over at a reasonable time so it wouldn’t be dark when we arrived. Well lo and behold she shows up an hour and a half later than the time we agreed on, with some story about being at the zoo, her friend yelling at her, and losing her keys and all sorts of shit. When she finally showed up she didn’t apologize and made no mention of how we didn’t get to go hiking to the place I mentioned.
Her excuse about why she was late was puzzling, though, and I didn’t find these details out until a few days afterwards. She said she had taken Adderall to help with her 3rd shift at work, only slept for a short while and then went to the zoo with a friend who wanted to wanted to have a few shots before going (even though it was like noon). Apparently she made a huge ass of herself, falling on the ground, cursing, zero self-awareness, apparently her friend yelled at her a lot and she apparently had a phone call with him afterwards that she didn’t remember at all.
Just like the last scenario, I found all of this puzzling it and distracted me from how shitty her behavior was towards me. While I did express that I was annoyed about her behavior, I was a total chickenshit about it and minced my words without really expressing how much it upset me, and in any case she was not apologetic in the slightest and acted like she did nothing wrong. It really bothered me she went to the zoo in the daytime (I could NEVER get her to hang out with me during the daytime, god forbid we actually do something besides having sex and watching Netflix for hours), then showed up to my place an hour and a half late, completely ruining our plans. She claimed she had left her keys in this dudes car and had to meet him at the mall where he worked, but this was obviously BS because the mall was quite close to where I lived and literally on the way towards my place anyway. Maybe she had make up sex him or maybe had been talking/fighting with him and lost track of time, but the excuses were paper thin and this really fucking hurt me and took a while to get over. I am angry just thinking about it.
Examples 3-5: We had made plans for her to come over around the "usual time" which lately had been around 6ish (we had a pattern of hanging out once a week on the same day and time). We had made plans to go out for dinner, so I didn’t eat anything that evening since I knew we’d be eating out. Just before 6 she sends the usual “just woke up, gonna shower and head over”. An hour and a half later she says she just got out of the shower, and is about to head out. Then another hour passes before her finally fucking shows up. So in other words, I spent 2 ½, hours waiting for her to go to dinner, on an empty stomach because it didn’t even occur to me how useless she was. And when she finally shows up, no apology at all …………no explanation about why she was even late.
The very next week she pulls the same shit - mentions around 6 she "just woke up" and would get some food on the way over. Doesn't end up showing up until fucking 8:30, somehow...
Even the next time we hang out, yet again similar thing happens... around 5:30 she messages me asking what time to come over, and I say come over now. 1 hour and 15 minutes then goes by without a response and then she says "omw" - only to not actually show up for another 45 minutes.
In addition to all this shit, there would be little things. On a few occasions she would cancel the one day of the week we had planned to hang out. She would sometimes take days to text me back even though we hardly texted at all as is. Occasionally I would ask her to blow me, and I always sensed this annoyance or lack of enthusiasm about doing it (even though I ate her out basically every time we fucked), put no effort whatsoever into it (although she claimed she had never given a blowjob before).
Her life seemed pretty unorganized and she definitely didn’t have her shit together. I don’t know if she was truly someone who didn’t value my time or feelings, or if she was just a young and naïve 20 year old who was genuinely too disorganized to keep her shit together. Either way, I never brought any of this up and a lot of this got buried deep, and it was only after ending things with her that I realized how I’ve put up with shit like this before.
And you may have already guessed it, but I’m not super experienced with women, I’ve only had sex with 10 and half of those were just this year. But I’m sick of dealing with this shit and I’ve started to believe that it’s worth listening to your gut and saying exactly what’s on your mind without editing yourself, without being afraid to yell at them and make them upset, even if your intuition may not always be correct. It shows them that you won’t enable their bullshit, keeps them on their toes. Again, I always thought that this sort of behavior was needy and controlling, but this is wrong. I’m also generally a fairly calm and easy going person, but this may be my downfall as it blinds me to the sort of shit that women do to us without any remorse.
So to wrap this up, here are my questions I want to raise for discussion?
How do you handle yourself around women when dealing with situations like this? Do you introduce logic in a calm way and carefully explain their behavior, or do you just let them have it and yell at them? What is your strategy about following your gut/intuition and speaking your mind with total honesty? I find it so hard to recognize the difference between neurotic thoughts that come from self-doubt, anxiety, etc and genuinely real insights about a woman’s behavior in the relationship. Does this come with experience?
Last week I ended a fwb relationship that had been going on for about 6 months. Ever since I ended it, I’ve undergone a various post-hoc analysis’ of the situation and as a result the true nature of the relationship has started to unravel, and I’ve started to realize the immense amount of horseshit I was that I was not only putting up with, but enabling. The reason I got rid of her, however, was because I had started catching feelings and she wanted to keep things casual, and I knew I’d just get more hung up on her if I didn’t leave. I believe this attachment to her may have been the main reason as to why I was blind as to how she was treating me at times. You may think that a lack of abundance was my problem, but I had sex with a few other women while seeing her, and had another FWB thing going for the past couple of months. The attachment essentially came from nowhere and I think it was because I wasn’t cognizant about how this girl was torturing me with her bullshit.
Look - I know that ultimately this girl doesn't matter at all, but there have been many times in my life situations like these have happened with women and I was always a doormat who put up with their shit and I don't think I was aware even subconsciously of how much shit I was enabling by not putting my foot down. I believe there are some things to be learned from this situation, and I would like some help in uncovering them.
This girl (who is 20 years old btw) did not value my time. She was late to our first date, late to our second, and generally always took forever to show up. We had a set day and time that we’d generally hang out, and she would always drive over to my place since I lived alone. But there were many occurrences where she would text me and say "I just woke up (she worked 3rd shift, slept in until late afternoons), I have to shower quickly then I'll come over." Then 2 hours would pass and she would be saying she's on the way. (what was she doing this whole time you ask? I don’t know, she didn’t wear makeup or own a lot of clothing). And i'd be sitting around in my home expecting her to show up and not committing to anything big knowing she would be getting here "soon" except often I'd end up idling around for a long period of time.
---
So enough of a preamble, I'm going to lay out all the BS she did in sequential order, and you’ll notice it only gets worse over time because I enabled it ever since the first few dates.
Example 1: One day we had intended to hang out, she texts me saying she had made plans with her coworker (black lady in her late 20s) to go to lunch with some guy and his uncle for dinner, and that it “might” have been a double date. So she insisted that I join them, and even though I thought it was weird af, I agreed anyway. So guess what? She arrives there perfectly on time. Perhaps the only time she was ever on time to something with me is when she was going to meet some other dudes and compete for her attention (I can only assume this is how it would have gone). But long story short, the two guys never showed up. Make of this what you will, but the entire situation rubbed me the wrong way and it felt very strange. My uncomfortable feelings were mostly due to the fact that she showed up on time for someone else. A few weeks later we incidentally ended up going to the same restaurant again, I arrived on time and she responds with “how punctual.” and shows up almost half an hour late. But I said nothing about either of these instances and instead buried it all inside.
Example 2: I had mentioned wanting to go hiking somewhere next time we hung out to which she agreed, and it was a far enough drive that she would have needed to come over at a reasonable time so it wouldn’t be dark when we arrived. Well lo and behold she shows up an hour and a half later than the time we agreed on, with some story about being at the zoo, her friend yelling at her, and losing her keys and all sorts of shit. When she finally showed up she didn’t apologize and made no mention of how we didn’t get to go hiking to the place I mentioned.
Her excuse about why she was late was puzzling, though, and I didn’t find these details out until a few days afterwards. She said she had taken Adderall to help with her 3rd shift at work, only slept for a short while and then went to the zoo with a friend who wanted to wanted to have a few shots before going (even though it was like noon). Apparently she made a huge ass of herself, falling on the ground, cursing, zero self-awareness, apparently her friend yelled at her a lot and she apparently had a phone call with him afterwards that she didn’t remember at all.
Just like the last scenario, I found all of this puzzling it and distracted me from how shitty her behavior was towards me. While I did express that I was annoyed about her behavior, I was a total chickenshit about it and minced my words without really expressing how much it upset me, and in any case she was not apologetic in the slightest and acted like she did nothing wrong. It really bothered me she went to the zoo in the daytime (I could NEVER get her to hang out with me during the daytime, god forbid we actually do something besides having sex and watching Netflix for hours), then showed up to my place an hour and a half late, completely ruining our plans. She claimed she had left her keys in this dudes car and had to meet him at the mall where he worked, but this was obviously BS because the mall was quite close to where I lived and literally on the way towards my place anyway. Maybe she had make up sex him or maybe had been talking/fighting with him and lost track of time, but the excuses were paper thin and this really fucking hurt me and took a while to get over. I am angry just thinking about it.
Examples 3-5: We had made plans for her to come over around the "usual time" which lately had been around 6ish (we had a pattern of hanging out once a week on the same day and time). We had made plans to go out for dinner, so I didn’t eat anything that evening since I knew we’d be eating out. Just before 6 she sends the usual “just woke up, gonna shower and head over”. An hour and a half later she says she just got out of the shower, and is about to head out. Then another hour passes before her finally fucking shows up. So in other words, I spent 2 ½, hours waiting for her to go to dinner, on an empty stomach because it didn’t even occur to me how useless she was. And when she finally shows up, no apology at all …………no explanation about why she was even late.
The very next week she pulls the same shit - mentions around 6 she "just woke up" and would get some food on the way over. Doesn't end up showing up until fucking 8:30, somehow...
Even the next time we hang out, yet again similar thing happens... around 5:30 she messages me asking what time to come over, and I say come over now. 1 hour and 15 minutes then goes by without a response and then she says "omw" - only to not actually show up for another 45 minutes.
In addition to all this shit, there would be little things. On a few occasions she would cancel the one day of the week we had planned to hang out. She would sometimes take days to text me back even though we hardly texted at all as is. Occasionally I would ask her to blow me, and I always sensed this annoyance or lack of enthusiasm about doing it (even though I ate her out basically every time we fucked), put no effort whatsoever into it (although she claimed she had never given a blowjob before).
---
Little things like this, as well as the total disregard for valuing and respecting my time, were never brought up. Why did I put up with this shit, you ask? Well, she was cute, and I was afraid that yelling at her or calling her out on this bullshit would be needy or controlling. I thought that due to the casual nature of the relationship, I was just supposed to just tolerate more than I would in a real relationship, that fighting about these things would somehow be inappropriate because she wasn’t my girlfriend but just a sexual object. Her life seemed pretty unorganized and she definitely didn’t have her shit together. I don’t know if she was truly someone who didn’t value my time or feelings, or if she was just a young and naïve 20 year old who was genuinely too disorganized to keep her shit together. Either way, I never brought any of this up and a lot of this got buried deep, and it was only after ending things with her that I realized how I’ve put up with shit like this before.
And you may have already guessed it, but I’m not super experienced with women, I’ve only had sex with 10 and half of those were just this year. But I’m sick of dealing with this shit and I’ve started to believe that it’s worth listening to your gut and saying exactly what’s on your mind without editing yourself, without being afraid to yell at them and make them upset, even if your intuition may not always be correct. It shows them that you won’t enable their bullshit, keeps them on their toes. Again, I always thought that this sort of behavior was needy and controlling, but this is wrong. I’m also generally a fairly calm and easy going person, but this may be my downfall as it blinds me to the sort of shit that women do to us without any remorse.
So to wrap this up, here are my questions I want to raise for discussion?
How do you handle yourself around women when dealing with situations like this? Do you introduce logic in a calm way and carefully explain their behavior, or do you just let them have it and yell at them? What is your strategy about following your gut/intuition and speaking your mind with total honesty? I find it so hard to recognize the difference between neurotic thoughts that come from self-doubt, anxiety, etc and genuinely real insights about a woman’s behavior in the relationship. Does this come with experience?
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