[joost]

Hello guys!

I'm moving to a gym that offers martial arts. My plan is to get strong lifting weights and train MMA as much as possible without risk of injuries/exhaustion.

I plan on doing:
Muay Thai > twice a week [classes Mon, Tue, Fri]
BJJ > twice a week [classes everyday]
Lifts > three times a week [opens everyday]. How would my routine be?

How can I arrange this on my schedule (monday to Friday?

[monster]

(06-29-2017 08:35 PM)joost Wrote:  

My plan is to get strong and train MMA without risk of injuries/exhaustion.

no one plans on getting injured. But you're pursuing heavy lifting and combat. I can't think of much else that has more injuries by the nature of the sport than those.

Alls i'm saying is have a contingency strategy for all those weeks you're gonna need to heal. You should plan for things like yoga as well as your risk-mitigation strategy while you're NOT injured.

[Rocha]

There is no such thing as "no risk of injuries" when doing sport martial arts like Muay Thai, BJJ, or MMA.

[Mayhem]

Monday : Lifts + BJJ
Tuesday : Muay Thai
Wednesday : Lifts
Thursday : BJJ
Friday : Lifts + Muay Thai
Saturday : BJ
Sunday : Bang

[JayD]

If you are in an actual serious gym muay thai and bjj will be brutal on your body. I would probably suggest progressive training and making sure you have pre-recovery and after-recovery training methods (stretching, eating, cold showers, sauna) on point. You can do all at once but if you are a beginner you will most likely burn yourself out. You'll minimize the risk of injuries if you have good recovery methods and know your limits.

Talk to a few people who actually train how you want to and ask for advice and help. Check how the fighters train and their methods and learn from that. It's doable, you won't really get injured from muay thai unless you're an idiot.

Also with this routine, you'll be spending a considerable amount of time in the gym, so think about that as well.

[Kangaroo]

I currently do all three, its very hard to manage.

I do:
Mon: Muay Thai
Tues: BJJ
Wed: Rest/Gym
Thurs: BJJ/Gym
Fri: Gym
Sat: Bjj
Sun: Rest/Gym

I'm 30 so maybe my recovery is slower then yours but i recommend taking at least 1 days off a week and never doing 2 of them in one day. Also make sure you eat carbs during the day as losing when you roll because you lack energy is no fun.

[WanderingSoul]

Honestly, you won't progress very much at all only training MT or BJJ 2x per week. Especially not in BJJ.

You're better off picking one and training it 3-4x per week, and lifting 3x.

Or if you can handle it and not burn out, do both 3x per week and lift 3x per week. Training 9x a week gets old quick though for most of us.

Once you get some experience under your belt and your body adjusts, you'll be able to lift and train on the same day no problem.

[HOD]

I have in the past tried to incorporate all three activities at once.

Let me be frank and honest.

Those three things should not go together,

the brutal punishment of sparring of Muay Thai, in combo with the heavy cardio of Muay Thai, kills muscle growth. That is why you see lot of Thai fighter that are quite thin and not thick. Muay Thai emphasize speed and agility over size.

Lifiting weight creates a lot of contraction in muscle, in order to produce power and strength or size, and would kill your speed and agility and footwork in Muay Thai, not to mention your quickness in rolling in BJJ.

You may want to incorporate a day of rest with yoga. To allow for healing of mind and body.

I'm guessing your lifting for strength and power, but that doesn't really help you in May Thai and BJJ. Skill and experience is more important. Time working of footwork, pad work, shadow boxing, heavy bag work and light sparring is more important.

If your a Middle weight to Heavy weight, than size does matter, in terms of sparring and professional fights.

Not sure what is your goal, but those three training programs should be separated.

I would train in BJJ for 2 weeks, than 2 weeks in MT, just to give your body a break and perhaps use the weekends as weight lifting days.

Your body can only accept so much stretching and pounding. Its like paying full contact football everyday. That's not going to work even in the NFL, who have access to trainers, a lot of ice and steriods, it will only lead to injuries, which leads to not training, and not fun.

[WanderingSoul]

(06-30-2017 01:44 AM)HOD Wrote:  

I have in the past tried to incorporate all three activities at once.

Let me be frank and honest.

Those three things should not go together,

the brutal punishment of sparring of Muay Thai, in combo with the heavy cardio of Muay Thai, kills muscle growth. That is why you see lot of Thai fighter that are quite thin and not thick. Muay Thai emphasize speed and agility over size.

Lifiting weight creates a lot of contraction in muscle, in order to produce power and strength or size, and would kill your speed and agility and footwork in Muay Thai, not to mention your quickness in rolling in BJJ.

You may want to incorporate a day of rest with yoga. To allow for healing of mind and body.

I'm guessing your lifting for strength and power, but that doesn't really help you in May Thai and BJJ. Skill and experience is more important. Time working of footwork, pad work, shadow boxing, heavy bag work and light sparring is more important.

If your a Middle weight to Heavy weight, than size does matter, in terms of sparring and professional fights.

Not sure what is your goal, but those three training programs should be separated.

I would train in BJJ for 2 weeks, than 2 weeks in MT, just to give your body a break and perhaps use the weekends as weight lifting days.

Your body can only accept so much stretching and pounding. Its like paying full contact football everyday. That's not going to work even in the NFL, who have access to trainers, a lot of ice and steriods, it will only lead to injuries, which leads to not training, and not fun.

This is terrible advice.

Alternating 2 weeks on 2 weeks off is going to KILL any growth in BJJ or MT. Seriously, anyone who has ever really trained will tell you this is a terrible idea, especially for a beginner.

Strength and power doesn't help you in BJJ or MT? Nearly EVERY top level MMA, BJJ or non Thai MT fighter lifts. The reason Thai's don't is because their training methods are 50 years behind the modern world and they're not very bright.

Seriously, you need to walk yourself out of this thread and stop talking about things you don't know about.

[JayD]

Depends on the lifting workout. I'll give an example of Buakaw where he incorporates traditional muay thai training and various lifts that help with power and explosiveness. Doing a bodybuilder routine wouldn't really help with muay thai in this regard.
If you are actually serious, train one discipline four to five times a week, that's the only way you will become better. And this is over a period of years before you actually get good.

What are your goals hasn't really been explained in this thread. Are you looking to train in general for the sake of it or are you aiming to reach competency. Realistically you can train all three at once but it will depend on your output and dedication to each sport. Like I said before, ask the fighters that train how you would like.

Don't alternate training 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, getting better at something is consistency.

There are fighters in muay thai that don't lift weights, but they do huge amounts of cardio and repetition with 6-10 hours of training a day. Muay thai is a niche in that regard. MMA fighters in flyweight to heavyweight all lift weights but their routines are suited to movement, power and explosiveness.

[HOD]

(06-30-2017 02:13 AM)JayD Wrote:  

Depends on the lifting workout. I'll give an example of Buakaw where he incorporates traditional muay thai training and various lifts that help with power and explosiveness. Doing a bodybuilder routine wouldn't really help with muay thai in this regard.
If you are actually serious, train one discipline four to five times a week, that's the only way you will become better. And this is over a period of years before you actually get good.

What are your goals hasn't really been explained in this thread. Are you looking to train in general for the sake of it or are you aiming to reach competency. Realistically you can train all three at once but it will depend on your output and dedication to each sport. Like I said before, ask the fighters that train how you would like.

Don't alternate training 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, getting better at something is consistency.

There are fighters in muay thai that don't lift weights, but they do huge amounts of cardio and repetition with 6-10 hours of training a day. Muay thai is a niche in that regard. MMA fighters in flyweight to heavyweight all lift weights but their routines are suited to movement, power and explosiveness.

Don't alternate training 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, getting better at something is consistency?

Have you tried this? No you haven't, give it a try, its a different idea.

It isn't inconsistent, taking two weeks off from training can do wonders. It allows your body to heal. Have you tried alternating, it works. To each his own.

There is no perfect training method. The only method, is one that works for you and more importantly the fact that you are improving and winning your matches.

Give it a try before you form an opinion. I have tried both training method. Have you?

[JayD]

[CynicalContrarian]

If you're just doing it all for your own benefit, sure what ev's.

However, if you plan to spar or compete, you'd be better off with a routine that aides flexibility, endurance & dynamic movement.
Perhaps research what the top MMA competitors do for training & then slowly ease into a similar routine.

[joost]

Thanks for all triples and sorry for not giving my background.
I'm on my mid thirties and I do lift 4 times a week currently. Been lifting for +15y.
Already trained boxing (+1y) and BJJ (+1y). Both in different years and not more than three times a week (couldn't recover faster).

I'm more concerned about exhaustion since I only had one injury during all that time (arm during BJJ).

I was hoping some MMA trainers here could give me some advice on how to add lifting weights to their routines.

I'm guessing you could focus on big lifts (i.e. bench press, squat) and avoid ones that uses few muscles.

My aim is to:
⁃Be in good shape as somebody who lifts. Nothing beats the gym.
⁃Be healthy as somebody who does cardio. I could do it at the gym but I hate it. Doing martial arts is fun and a must-have for men. Extra points for confidence and self defense.

[heavy]

That's a lot on your plate. I commend you. I do BJJ 2-3 times per week, and lift probably 2 times per week.

In the colder months that's not much of a problem, but in the summer that's tough to keep up.

I assume you don't have anything else going on? (side projects, side business, career change or moving up, etc)

Like I said, I commend it. If you don't have anything else going on, keep busy with this stuff. Better to be busy than not.

[Ringo]

Rio hit it on the head - you can do whatever, you just won't progress fast/at all.

In my experience (almost 3 years BJJ, 2 years Judo), unless you practice at least 3x/week you spin on your wheels.

Lifting can be done concurrently but you should gauge your volume not by how much you can do, but by what the minimum is to get the results you want. Like pick only 2 lifts to go heavy (reverse pyramid or standard 3x3, 3x5, etc) and maybe 2 accessories/prehab with light weights and higher reps.

You could do:
MT Mon/Tue/Fri (night classes)
BJJ Wed/Thu/Sat (night classes)
Lifting Mon/Wed/Fri (morning)

To try to fit everything in just weekdays, specially at your age, will make you burn out mentally and be prone to injury, unless you really know what you're doing - which if you're a begginner you don't.

[ScrapperTL]

My advice is to play it by ear.

When I first started getting into training Martial Arts, I was already very much into Bodybuilding and Powerlifting.
Fast forward to right now and I am training MMA 5 to 7 days a week, with some Yoga and Bodyweight exercises thrown in for good measure.

Follow your passions and know that sometimes your passions will change.

Right now BJJ and Judo are my favorites.
I am getting between 5 to 10 hours a week of Mat Time in, based on how busy I am.
It is amazing the progress you can make, see and feel in grappling.

If you stay dedicated to BJJ and Judo, you will realize real quick (within 6 months) that an untrained person who is not armed with a weapon - will be quick and easy work for you regardless of their size.

Also, expect to be humbled by how shitty your "grappling" cardio is immediately.
As long as you stick with it, this will improve every single week too.

[Satoshi]

I was lifting three or four times a week. Then I started doing muay thai once a week. It slowly progressed and now I'm only doing muay thai three times a week and no lifting at all. At this point I not even have a gym membership anymore. Muay thai gives me so much more I don't even see the point in lifting anymore. I probably won't get jacked but it does not matter, I get good physics anyway.

edit: similar to what ScapperTL wrote just above me.

[joost]

I guess the best advice would be to lift in the morning (7am) and train martial arts at night (7pm).

Problem to lift in the morning is that you're supposed to sleep early the night before but at 4x/week it is fine. It's like it doesn't count on your spare time.

The gym is a few blocks from my place so I'm not wasting time (thus screwing "going on things").

[WanderingSoul]

Trust me, once you get used to it you can lift right before BJJ or MT if you want. I used to lift and then go train BJJ all of the time. It's not ideal, but it isn't that big of a deal. Probably easier to lift and train BJJ after than it is MT though.

You're overthinking this. Play it by ear like said above.

[birthday cat]

I agree with picking two instead of trying to do all three.

BJJ is a mental game and you won't progress much if you are training only twice per week or taking two weeks off.

I think lifting can help with MT if you are lifting explosively and doing some power lifts.