[J_Sway]

This is not a troll post. It's sad to have to say that but, given the trajectory of threads here lately, I feel like it's necessary.

With all the focus on the "exceptional male", it seems that there is little creedence given to those that choose to be exceptionally average. Most of us spend a great deal of time learning and pontificating on how to be exceptional, while statistically we will remain insignificant unto our deaths. Should we not be aiming more towards statistical significance, rather than to be extreme outliers on a bell curve?

Simply put, how many of us would be better suited, and are better equipped to be above average men, than what we "might" possibly achieve from following and adhereing to the sage advice of statistically far and above average men?

There's nothing wrong with being a great average man.

Pushing and expecting all men to be leaders is just as bad as the Western higher education ideology of "You are all born awesome, capable of anything you put your mind to".

No, sorry, as the Chinese say, some are snakes, and some are dragons. A world full of dragons is nothing but unmitigated chaos. A world full of snakes is meant to be devoured. There needs to be a balance of both.

There are leaders, and there are followers, and I feel like this current wave of motivational speaking and positivity is encouraging and moving men who were meant to be exceptional snakes into dragon territory, with disastrous results.

[J_Sway]

Mobile mis-post. This should be moved to Lifestyle or Everything Else

[RIslander]

You are on the wrong forum.

[Repo]

If you only strive to be above average, youll probably end up only average.

[Corollary]

What are the disastrous results that come from failing to become exceptional?

[Steelex]

You're on the wrong site bro.

[SamuelBRoberts]

You want maybe 4chan, I think, not this forum?

This isn't very insightful or interesting.

[churros]

(06-17-2017 01:35 PM)J_Sway Wrote:  

There are leaders, and there are followers, and I feel like this current wave of motivational speaking and positivity is encouraging and moving men who were meant to be exceptional snakes into dragon territory, with disastrous results.

Why? You don't explain the need for average man, or why one might desire to be one. This is all pretty abstract.

I think American exceptionalism is bullshit, but so are your premises. So I don't get what we're talking about.

[Repo]

Lord knows you don't want to end up with the average female these days.

[Steelex]

I smell a ban hammer a comin

[Polniy_Sostav]

I disagree with the OP and his opinion , but I understand what he means. There is a culture coming from the USA , which always pushes people "to be the best" , " to achieve" etc
You can be the best at writing sci-fi stories or analysing geopolitics , without lifting weight and being skinny , that doesn't make you weak.

[Steelex]

I think a big part of the overall red pill is rising up to become your very best. It's a choice. It's rooted in the belief that you can live a better life, fuck hotter women, and live more of the life you want to live. Will you be the next Dan Bilzerian? Probably not, but by chasing perfection we can find excellence.

Fuck average.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

It's entirely possible for an average man to increase his level of achievement in every area of life. Look at it in terms of percentiles.

If your income is at the 50th percentile in your nation or region, you can focus on your career skills, master the social interactions needed to do better at work, and manage your finances wisely to build a nestegg and continue growing it over time. Every man in every station of life can do this and should. Nobody is saying you have to be the next Donald Trump. I know many factory workers who paid off their homes and contributed the max to their company's retirement plans, who now have several hundred thousand in net worth. This is well above the 50th percentile. Substantial gains are within every man's reach.

If your fitness level is in the 50th percentile, you can exercise and watch what you eat, and develop a substantially better body. You don't have to be Connor McGregor to do this. Every man can substantially improve their body and become above average.

If your overall attractiveness to women is in the 50th percentile, you can do the two things above, and you can improve your clothing style, and you can learn to talk to women in a way they find attractive. You may not be able to go to a Vegas pool party and pull ten hotties back to your room for an orgy, but you can learn to attract prettier women, and manage them so they act sweet and sexy for you, rather than frigid and bitchy. Every man can improve in this area. It's like learning sales, or teaching, or how to manage workers that you are supervising. All social skills have a learning curve. Even if you are not a natural, you can certainly learn to do better.

Nobody on this site is saying we all have to be super elite in every area of our lives. What we are saying is you should believe that you can improve, and you should put in effort to improve.

Once you start doing this, you'll often find yourself looking at exceptional men for inspiration and examples. You'll find even these exceptional men often started out as average men, or even as losers. These men are admirable, and worthy of discussion.

You want advice on how to be a better level of average, to move up the scale without expecting to become a superman? That's exactly what this site is. However, don't be surprised if you start seriously down this path, and 10 years later find yourself at an elite status you now consider unrealistic.

[dknightbro]

Seek not to better yourself for others' validation, but for yourself.

[J_Sway]

(06-17-2017 10:15 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

It's entirely possible for an average man to increase his level of achievement in every area of life. Look at it in terms of percentiles.

If your income is at the 50th percentile in your nation or region, you can focus on your career skills, master the social interactions needed to do better at work, and manage your finances wisely to build a nestegg and continue growing it over time. Every man in every station of life can do this and should. Nobody is saying you have to be the next Donald Trump. I know many factory workers who paid off their homes and contributed the max to their company's retirement plans, who now have several hundred thousand in net worth. This is well above the 50th percentile. Substantial gains are within every man's reach.

If your fitness level is in the 50th percentile, you can exercise and watch what you eat, and develop a substantially better body. You don't have to be Connor McGregor to do this. Every man can substantially improve their body and become above average.

If your overall attractiveness to women is in the 50th percentile, you can do the two things above, and you can improve your clothing style, and you can learn to talk to women in a way they find attractive. You may not be able to go to a Vegas pool party and pull ten hotties back to your room for an orgy, but you can learn to attract prettier women, and manage them so they act sweet and sexy for you, rather than frigid and bitchy. Every man can improve in this area. It's like learning sales, or teaching, or how to manage workers that you are supervising. All social skills have a learning curve. Even if you are not a natural, you can certainly learn to do better.

Nobody on this site is saying we all have to be super elite in every area of our lives. What we are saying is you should believe that you can improve, and you should put in effort to improve.

Once you start doing this, you'll often find yourself looking at exceptional men for inspiration and examples. You'll find even these exceptional men often started out as average men, or even as losers. These men are admirable, and worthy of discussion.

You want advice on how to be a better level of average, to move up the scale without expecting to become a superman? That's exactly what this site is. However, don't be surprised if you start seriously down this path, and 10 years later find yourself at an elite status you now consider unrealistic.

That's kind of the point I was trying to make, but it was late and my head was swimming in words and I couldn't sleep. Exceptionally average is still above average. Elite does tend to happen to those that practice long enough.

However there's nothing wrong with being average in the sense that not everyone can or will be a high powered CEO or what have you. There needs to be more men who are pushing themselves to excel where they are, be they a garbage man, mill foreman, etc. They don't need to be billionaires, but they can be great employees, fathers, husbands, community leaders, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I watch the motivaional videos and read the books and find them all to be quite moving. I'm just kind of reminded of being in school when they started pushing the "everyone must go to college" agenda.

[The Beast1]

OP's got an honest topic gents. No trolling here.

He's onto something. Instead of telling children to go off and, "chase their dreams" which dreams for most people are fame, riches, easy life they should go and be a tradesmen.

Average has a negative connotation. Salt of the earth is a softer way of putting it.

[Corollary]

After reading the post a couple of times, I can see what the OP is getting at. The strange use of several terms made it difficult to understand, but what I think he saying is it's OK to strive to be above average, which is the goal of most self-improvement. He's just saying there's danger is striving to become more than above average, i.e. elite, since it's very unlikely that anyone will actually succeed at that goal. Aiming to become above average though is within the possibly for any man, especially for one who finds this forum.

My problem with the OP is I don't see where men are being pushed to attempt to become elite--at least I don't see it this forum, elsewhere on the Internet, or in my everyday life.

I've never read or heard anyone say:

Men should strive to become millionaires or even billionaires.
Men should strive to become politicians or CEOs in powerful positions.
Men should strive to have a harem of 10s.
Men should strive to be in elite physical condition and compete at the highest level of a sport.
Men should strive to be A-list celebrities.
Or anything else one could consider to be elite.

But I wish I did. I wish there was more talk about those things. I wish more men were encouraged to at least think about what it would take to become elite, even if the chances were slim.

Why don't we try to become elite? What do we have to lose?

[Simeon_Strangelight]

This is not helpful thinking.

It is never about everyone of us to become the world-class pussy-slayers, billionaires or stars.

You simply become a better man than you are now and by golly most men can improve so much, that there is no comparison between the two. Even if you do the same job, make the same amount of money, your life with Game, Red Pill, frame-change and workout/lifting/no-fap is fundamentally different to anything you had before.

You may still clock in the "average" scale on some metrics, but you will know that you are not average. And many people will know so too.

[slowpoke]

While there does need to be leaders and followers for society to function, it is within the power of any one individual to become a leader/exceptional

As Edison said "genius is 99 perspiration and 1 inspiration"

The only thing that prevents the "average male" becoming exceptional is he doesn't have a strong enough reason why he needs to do it

[Slam]

(06-18-2017 04:53 PM)slowpoke Wrote:  

While there does need to be leaders and followers for society to function, it is within the power of any one individual to become a leader/exceptional

As Edison said "genius is 99 perspiration and 1 inspiration"

The only thing that prevents the "average male" becoming exceptional is he doesn't have a strong enough reason why he needs to do it

I use to think something like this, with humans being 'equal' and equally able to do various things... but as time has gone by, I've come to think it more has to do with genetics than we are ready to admit, and people have different capacities.

Right now I'd say it's probably an 80/20 ratio like so many other things. 80% of people simply aren't capable of leading.

[Steelex]

I doubt it has much to do with genetics, and more to do with the natural hierarchy of the world.

Not everyone gets to be a leader, it's a mathematical impossibility. However, it's not some predetermined type of thing. Rather, there are steep entry barriers to functioning in the elite of anything. Thats why they are perceived as superior in some aspect. Some folks lack the intelligence, drive, or whatever to get there, but I don't think you can attribute it to genetics.

Success is really just a shit ton of little things you do that add up to a bigger end result, nothing really that special. But if I explained to you guys the steps I took to build a lawn care business i ran several years back and sold for a good chunk, 99% percent of you would be too lazy to print out and distribute the fliers. That's not genetics.

(06-18-2017 05:28 PM)Slam Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 04:53 PM)slowpoke Wrote:  

While there does need to be leaders and followers for society to function, it is within the power of any one individual to become a leader/exceptional

As Edison said "genius is 99 perspiration and 1 inspiration"

The only thing that prevents the "average male" becoming exceptional is he doesn't have a strong enough reason why he needs to do it

I use to think something like this, with humans being 'equal' and equally able to do various things... but as time has gone by, I've come to think it more has to do with genetics than we are ready to admit, and people have different capacities.

Right now I'd say it's probably an 80/20 ratio like so many other things. 80% of people simply aren't capable of leading.

[J_Sway]

(06-18-2017 01:11 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

OP's got an honest topic gents. No trolling here.

He's onto something. Instead of telling children to go off and, "chase their dreams" which dreams for most people are fame, riches, easy life they should go and be a tradesmen.

Average has a negative connotation. Salt of the earth is a softer way of putting it.

Yeah, "average" was probably the wrong word. Salt-of-the-earth types are precisely the types I am referring to. Normal fellows who are successful in their own little corner of the world that people see as upstanding, reliable, pillars of their family/community. Basically, red-pill types that were red-pill long before the term ever even came into existence.

(06-18-2017 03:33 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

This is not helpful thinking.

It is never about everyone of us to become the world-class pussy-slayers, billionaires or stars.

You simply become a better man than you are now and by golly most men can improve so much, that there is no comparison between the two. Even if you do the same job, make the same amount of money, your life with Game, Red Pill, frame-change and workout/lifting/no-fap is fundamentally different to anything you had before.

You may still clock in the "average" scale on some metrics, but you will know that you are not average. And many people will know so too.

RIght, and that final statement kind of ecapsulates the meaning of the message in it's simplicity. When I hear people say something like "striving for perfection", I cringe a little, as it's such a rediculously unattainable thing. Better the man who knows his lane and tries to be better today than he was yesterday at what he does well, and knows himself well enough to outsource what he doesn't to those who can, than the man who strives for perfection in all things and becomes slightly better than half-assed at all of them.

(06-18-2017 07:03 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

I doubt it has much to do with genetics, and more to do with the natural hierarchy of the world.

Not everyone gets to be a leader, it's a mathematical impossibility. However, it's not some predetermined type of thing. Rather, there are steep entry barriers to functioning in the elite of anything. Thats why they are perceived as superior in some aspect. Some folks lack the intelligence, drive, or whatever to get there, but I don't think you can attribute it to genetics.

Success is really just a shit ton of little things you do that add up to a bigger end result, nothing really that special. But if I explained to you guys the steps I took to build a lawn care business i ran several years back and sold for a good chunk, 99% percent of you would be too lazy to print out and distribute the fliers. That's not genetics.

(06-18-2017 05:28 PM)Slam Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 04:53 PM)slowpoke Wrote:  

While there does need to be leaders and followers for society to function, it is within the power of any one individual to become a leader/exceptional

As Edison said "genius is 99 perspiration and 1 inspiration"

The only thing that prevents the "average male" becoming exceptional is he doesn't have a strong enough reason why he needs to do it

I use to think something like this, with humans being 'equal' and equally able to do various things... but as time has gone by, I've come to think it more has to do with genetics than we are ready to admit, and people have different capacities.

Right now I'd say it's probably an 80/20 ratio like so many other things. 80% of people simply aren't capable of leading.

I believe it boils down, as many arguments that seem to pop up on here do, to the whole "nature vs nurture" argument, which we all know is absolute garbage in that there is no either/or, and that it is an ever changing ratio of both, and that their relationship is symbiotic.

[Slam]

(06-18-2017 07:03 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

I doubt it has much to do with genetics, and more to do with the natural hierarchy of the world.

Not everyone gets to be a leader, it's a mathematical impossibility. However, it's not some predetermined type of thing. Rather, there are steep entry barriers to functioning in the elite of anything. Thats why they are perceived as superior in some aspect. Some folks lack the intelligence, drive, or whatever to get there, but I don't think you can attribute it to genetics.

Success is really just a shit ton of little things you do that add up to a bigger end result, nothing really that special. But if I explained to you guys the steps I took to build a lawn care business i ran several years back and sold for a good chunk, 99% percent of you would be too lazy to print out and distribute the fliers. That's not genetics.

It has been shown that IQ is in part genetic. If a person does not have sufficient IQ, he cannot lead.

You can't take a 70 IQ person and have him be a CEO, even of a modest-sized lawn care business.

There is more research being done all the time on genetic influence on behavioral outcomes. I'm not saying necessarily that it is ALL genetic, but more than we'd like to think, including our own sense of ourselves.

[realologist]

The genetic vs. hard work, the nature vs. nurture arguments are annoying as hell. They are codependent and work together. Genetics determine your top limit and starting place, everything else is to see whether we reach that.

I would bet most people never even come close to reaching their genetic potential so why is it always an argument.

[RatInTheWoods]

The older I get the more sense I see in balance.

You don't want to be lazy, but you don't want to be a workaholic.
You don't want to be poor, and you don't want to be mega rich.

Life is short, resources finite. Spend your time, efforts and dedication wisely to deliver you the highest returns, in the areas that you want.

Don't listen to others tell you what to do, don't let others set their standards for you, and don't listen to others excuses for mediocrity.