[Selembao]

I predict this visa free regime will not change much. Most likely it will bring changes in Kiev which has the two best connected airports in the country.
It will less affect 2nd and 3rd tier cities. The vast majority of ukrainians never left the country, and it will unlikely explode in the near future.

[Rocha]

I was born with a positive mindset. Everything will be allright, vse budit horosho.

Ukraine will still be Ukraine, the hot ones also already traveled all over the world. And for guys like me who spent the majority of time in Western Europe, then it will be a good chance to play the game of "spot the Ukrainian girl".

[Australia Sucks]

Damn it, it looks like I missed out on the golden era of Ukraine!

[Simeon_Strangelight]

There is a simple solution to all the future woes of girls leaving the Ukraine - get them young (18-19), get them in the second and third tier towns.

[Rocha]

(06-13-2017 06:33 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

There is a simple solution to all the future woes of girls leaving the Ukraine - get them young (18-19), get them in the second and third tier towns.

What makes you think they are better/ different than first tier towns ones?

[scrambled]

Quote:

Turkey as an alternative option to Ukraine?

[Rocha]

(06-13-2017 09:11 AM)scrambled Wrote:  

Quote:

Turkey as an alternative option to Ukraine?

There are some hot Turkish girls like in any country...But might as well pick Spain, Portugal or Italy as better alternatives.

[Giacomo Casanova]

@Rocha: I would add Malta at the list

[NewMeta]

Damn look at all those hot Ukrainian's coming to Poland!!!

Pussy Paradise status on Ukraine: Ruined.

[scrambled]

^ How many WB's there? Looks like Pampushka & Babushka

[BangBoy123]

(06-13-2017 11:26 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  

Damn look at all those hot Ukrainian's coming to Poland!!!

Pussy Paradise status on Ukraine: Ruined.

I've seen a bigger stampede for cut price pig's trotters down the local market

[sportbilly]

I got excited at the thought of UK streets being filled with summer students from Ukraine (most ukrainian girls I have ever met dream of the Uk or Us or both), then I re read it, why is the Uk left with the dregs of Europe!

[Rocha]

(06-13-2017 11:26 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  

Damn look at all those hot Ukrainian's coming to Poland!!!

Pussy Paradise status on Ukraine: Ruined.

Well, from the local info I have gathered today locally, this is an everyday scene. It is people who live on the border with Poland doing some daily runs, and smuggling some cigarrettes.

As you guys can see, no one is carrying luggage in this footage except some ladies with their handbags, quite strange for someone who is emigrating to Western Europe)))

As much as I like and praise RT, they also do their best at misinformation regarding Ukraine.

[Matt Forney]

Based on my visit to Ukraine two months ago (I'm going back next month), not a whole lot is going to change.

The War in Donbass has already scared away Brits and other tourists from English-speaking countries. When I was in Lviv, I was the only English-speaking tourist in town. The only one. And as some others have mentioned, most Ukrainians are too poor to travel extensively (the hryvnia's value has collapsed).

Moreover, Ukraine is not like Poland, Hungary or other countries in the region. There's a decided cultural difference between the Central European/Mitteleuropean countries like Poland and Hungary, which were shaped by German influence, and the Russian-influenced cultures of Ukraine, Romania etc. The latter appear to be more resistant to Westernization in general.

Consider something: in Ukraine (or at least in Lviv), there are almost no American franchises or restaurants. There's a lone McDonald's next to the Opera House, but that's all I saw in a week of being there. Not only that, American brands of soda and junk food are hard to find in stores: most of what they have are Russian or Ukrainian brands.

I don't think visa-free travel for Ukrainians is going to do much aside from drive down the cost of prostitutes in Amsterdam.

[Rocha]

(06-13-2017 07:25 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

Based on my visit to Ukraine two months ago (I'm going back next month), not a whole lot is going to change.

The War in Donbass has already scared away Brits and other tourists from English-speaking countries. When I was in Lviv, I was the only English-speaking tourist in town. The only one. And as some others have mentioned, most Ukrainians are too poor to travel extensively (the hryvnia's value has collapsed).

Moreover, Ukraine is not like Poland, Hungary or other countries in the region. There's a decided cultural difference between the Central European/Mitteleuropean countries like Poland and Hungary, which were shaped by German influence, and the Russian-influenced cultures of Ukraine, Romania etc. The latter appear to be more resistant to Westernization in general.

Consider something: in Ukraine (or at least in Lviv), there are almost no American franchises or restaurants. There's a lone McDonald's next to the Opera House, but that's all I saw in a week of being there. Not only that, American brands of soda and junk food are hard to find in stores: most of what they have are Russian or Ukrainian brands.

I don't think visa-free travel for Ukrainians is going to do much aside from drive down the cost of prostitutes in Amsterdam.

Matt, I do not consider your observations regarding Ukraine very accurate, quite the opposite, but at least you mention more than once that this is based on your Lviv experience, a city that I never been to. So let me expose my points of view:

Quote:

The War in Donbass has already scared away Brits and other tourists from English-speaking countries. When I was in Lviv, I was the only English-speaking tourist in town. The only one.

Lviv is 1300 kilometers (or 700 miles) from Donetsk. Very far from any chance of a war related incident, and even if the rebels where blietzkriging the Ukrainian army... a military column moves at around 10km per hour.
So me thinks the lack of English speaking tourists in Lviv must have more to do to lack of direct flights, and knowledge of the city than something else. Besides that Kiev is halfway between Lviv and Donetsk, and I hear English being spoken all the time, seems like we are in Barcelona or Rome.

Quote:

Moreover, Ukraine is not like Poland, Hungary or other countries in the region. There's a decided cultural difference between the Central European/Mitteleuropean countries like Poland and Hungary, which were shaped by German influence, and the Russian-influenced cultures of Ukraine, Romania etc. The latter appear to be more resistant to Westernization in general.

I do not see how Romania fits in this sentence, given that they where enemies of Russia in WW2 and Ceausescu was a maverick in the scope of Warsaw pact countries, and that ultimately was left for dead by the USSR. Romanians are not even Slavic, the only common thing is the religion. You can explain the cultural difference between Ukraine and the other central European countries by being a part and big parcel of Soviet Union, as the second most important former Republic, by also being Eastern Slavs (or even Russians as some historians adhere) and equally Orthodox Christians.

Quote:

Consider something: in Ukraine (or at least in Lviv), there are almost no American franchises or restaurants. There's a lone McDonald's next to the Opera House, but that's all I saw in a week of being there. Not only that, American brands of soda and junk food are hard to find in stores: most of what they have are Russian or Ukrainian brands.

Well, the second busiest McDonalds in the world is just outside Kiev's main train station (number one is i Moscow....)

http://ukrainianjournal.com/index.html?w=...e&id=14001

Coca-Cola and Pepsi products are also produced in Ukraine and readily available at any small corner shop in Ukraine...even in remotely Kharkov, who by the way along with most of Ukraine currently has a boycott on Russian products, so I do not understand how in Lviv, in the heart of Banderastan and Ukrainian nationalism you see those Russian products.

Quote:

I don't think visa-free travel for Ukrainians is going to do much aside from drive down the cost of prostitutes in Amsterdam.

Well, Ukrainian women have their flaws, but one thing they are known for, and that is for not being cheap prostitutes, they leave that for Romanians, Hungarians or Bulgarians.


Finally, I agree with you on your first sentence, not a whole lot is going to change.

[Matt Forney]

(06-13-2017 08:08 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

Lviv is 1300 kilometers (or 700 miles) from Donetsk. Very far from any chance of a war related incident, and even if the rebels where blietzkriging the Ukrainian army... a military column moves at around 10km per hour.

So me thinks the lack of English speaking tourists in Lviv must have more to do to lack of direct flights, and knowledge of the city than something else. Besides that Kiev is halfway between Lviv and Donetsk, and I hear English being spoken all the time, seems like we are in Barcelona or Rome.

You're underestimating how dumb the average British or American tourist is. They think Ukraine is a warzone because all they hear is propaganda from the fake news media back home. My family thought I was insane when I mentioned to them that I was going to be visiting Ukraine. The State Department doesn't help with its insane travel advisories. For example, they were (and probably still are) urging people to avoid Davao in the Philippines because of the Muslim civil war... which is happening on the other side of the island. (Worked for me, I ended up being one of the few foreigners there when I lived there.)

Quote:

I do not see how Romania fits in this sentence, given that they where enemies of Russia in WW2 and Ceausescu was a maverick in the scope of Warsaw pact countries, and that ultimately was left for dead by the USSR. Romanians are not even Slavic, the only common thing is the religion. You can explain the cultural difference between Ukraine and the other central European countries by being a part and big parcel of Soviet Union, as the second most important former Republic, by also being Eastern Slavs (or even Russians as some historians adhere) and equally Orthodox Christians.

Romania may not be the best example (I concede that), but the point I was making is that there's a significant gulf between Central Europe and Eastern Europe in terms of cultural attitudes. This map illustrates what I mean (interestingly, it places western Ukraine as part of Mitteleuropa, which may explain why our observations on Ukraine are so different):

Quote:

Well, the second busiest McDonalds in the world is just outside Kiev's main train station (number one is i Moscow....)

http://ukrainianjournal.com/index.html?w=...e&id=14001

Coca-Cola and Pepsi products are also produced in Ukraine and readily available at any small corner shop in Ukraine...even in remotely Kharkov, who by the way along with most of Ukraine currently has a boycott on Russian products, so I do not understand how in Lviv, in the heart of Banderastan and Ukrainian nationalism you see those Russian products.

Hmmm, those must have been Ukrainian products I saw (I didn't know about the ban and I only just started learning Ukrainian). Point being is that there are far fewer American or even other European brands in Lviv stores. In Hungary, I can walk into any convenience store or supermarket and find a large amount of American candy, chips etc. as well as German brands like Haribo and Mamba. In Ukraine, all I remember seeing is Coke, Pepsi, Red Bull, Kit Kats and Lays: the bulk of what I saw was Ukrainian brands I didn't recognize.

[Nowak]

(06-12-2017 12:30 PM)apolis Wrote:  

Ryanair is pleased to announce that low fares have arrived in Ukraine, our 34th country of operation, with 4 new Kiev routes to Eindhoven, London, Manchester and Stockholm, beginning in October, which will help deliver 250,000 annual customers at Kiev Airport.

This is the bigger issue that should worry us.

[Nowak]

(06-12-2017 04:51 PM)NapoleonDynamighty Wrote:  

Turkey is the answer. If you can brave the political climate Turkey is one of the biggest and most diverse country. Stay away from the Isis regions and hit Istanbul, Ankara, Anatolya and turkish birds are now at that sweet spot where Polish girls were from Roosh's early days. Its been too long that Turkish men have used western girls for disposable pleasure now the roles are beginning to reverse.

Every Turkish girl I have met are sexually frustrated and their men split their legs , pump for a few minutes and zip it up and leave. They are some of the most neglected women sexually and also interms of love, affection and passion. They are extremely feminine , easy to please and would treat you like a sex god if you go down on them.

They are also diverse in looks and some of them have some Bulgarian or Russian in them. Turkey although promised every year they will get in the EU this will not happen under the current government. Even their ex colony Balkan brothers under EU pressure have made it mandatory for them to need visa to travel which few can afford. Bosnia and Serbia being the exception.

Turkey is the absolute last place anyone should go to meet girls.

[Giacomo Casanova]

The Ryanair flight from Manchester to Kiev is the scariest.

[Wander]

(06-13-2017 07:25 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

Based on my visit to Ukraine two months ago (I'm going back next month), not a whole lot is going to change.

The War in Donbass has already scared away Brits and other tourists from English-speaking countries. When I was in Lviv, I was the only English-speaking tourist in town. The only one. And as some others have mentioned, most Ukrainians are too poor to travel extensively (the hryvnia's value has collapsed).

Moreover, Ukraine is not like Poland, Hungary or other countries in the region. There's a decided cultural difference between the Central European/Mitteleuropean countries like Poland and Hungary, which were shaped by German influence, and the Russian-influenced cultures of Ukraine, Romania etc. The latter appear to be more resistant to Westernization in general.

Consider something: in Ukraine (or at least in Lviv), there are almost no American franchises or restaurants. There's a lone McDonald's next to the Opera House, but that's all I saw in a week of being there. Not only that, American brands of soda and junk food are hard to find in stores: most of what they have are Russian or Ukrainian brands.

I don't think visa-free travel for Ukrainians is going to do much aside from drive down the cost of prostitutes in Amsterdam.

You were the only English speaking tourist in Lviv? I thought at first maybe you hadn't been since the 90's, then I saw you were there two months ago

You were there for one week and only saw one McDonalds? there is bigger one right close to Hotel George, it's almost unmissable,

Sounds like you are more disappointed than pleased with the lack of junk food

I agree that not a huge amount will change though.

[369eyedea]

(06-14-2017 03:17 AM)Giacomo Casanova Wrote:  

The Ryanair flight from Manchester to Kiev is the scariest.

It sounds bad, but i can't imagine a lot of guys on a stag party (i presume that's who we're worried about here) choosing Kiev over Prague or Amsterdam. And Kiev is a big place, i'd predict it would absorb a lot of them, and they would just stay in the center.
Of course it's a negative development, but i hope it's not going to be the end of Ukraine. Just the start of the decay.
Like someone wrote before, Poland is still great, even though it's an open country. Have to be optimistic!

[aryavritindia]

(06-12-2017 11:15 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

One of the main factors in making Ukraine a special place has been removed.

Quote:

Ukrainians have celebrated the introduction of visa-free travel to the European Union with special events.

President Petro Poroshenko hailed the "fall of the paper curtain" at a gathering in the capital Kiev.

He also opened a symbolic visa-free door to Europe, and met Slovak President Andrej Kiska, at the Uzhgorod border checkpoint.
However, Ukrainians who want to work in the EU still need to obtain a working visa.

Travellers departing from Kiev's international airport were treated to music and dance.

But in Russia, whose relations with Ukraine are tense, TV news downplayed the significance of the concession - and pushed the idea that the change would result in an influx of illegal labour migrants from Ukraine, and that the EU might eventually suspend the deal.

The visa-free scheme allows Ukrainians with a biometric passport to enter the Schengen area - including some non-EU areas such as Switzerland and Iceland, but not the UK or Ireland - without a visa for up to 90 days.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40241348

Girls still have to get a new passport, but that won't be a serious barrier. I expect Ukrainian girls to do far more extensive travel on the dime of their "internet friends" that they chat with in Italy, Spain, Germany, etc. Within two years, you'll notice a change in the talent available in your trips to Ukraine and the demeanor of the women.

On the bright side, those who live in the EU but not in Ukraine will see more Ukrainian girls around.

Thats a good news for Ukrainian girl

[Nascimento]

^ Lol.

[scrambled]

Quote:

Turkey is the absolute last place anyone should go to meet girls.

Roosh's column from awhile ago mentions to avoid any place where the men leave to find women: which means places like Italy, UK, Turkey

Quote:

The State Department doesn't help with its insane travel advisories.

Tripadvisor recommends using the Australian Consular warnings, as being more connected with reality, than the "don't blame us, we told you 99% of the world is a war zone" U.S. version.

[Leads]

In Lviv for 3 months and can tell you that it's not a problem now. Even those able to afford a bus ticket to the EU won't be able to afford the higher shengen prices. Also, the one girl I banged here said they still have to bring loads of paperwork, so it's not like us americans just popping into these countries. The culture and old ways are stronger here in Ukraine than say Poland, so I don't see it degrading for 5 years.

Heading to Tblisis next, due to the visa-free year, cheapness and heard nothing but good things about it. Taking my tall Nordic self east - just always liked asian/dark looking women better. I've had Armenian, Khazakstatian, Chinese and aside from me finding them more attractive, asian women are more submissive and know they place quite well.


Yes, Turkey is abysmal girl-wise. Polar opposite of Uraine. It's literally all dudes.