[Steve McQueen]

Ask yourself this, if you were a Leo Di Caprio would it be hard for you to move on?

Women live different lives to us, we are props in their world view, like a pet dog that needs to be put down, they just go out and buy another.

We are expendable in every way, much like young models are to Leo.

Options, its the one envy of women I do have.

[Nascimento]

- Women on average are better players at the game than men
- Women are more used to emotional turmoil
- Most men are either too blue pill or still a little beta at heart (can't be perfect)
- Alpha widows do not move on quickly because they have plenty of options (trying could make them feel worse)
- How hard it is for a man to move on is correlated to his options and experience (most are lacking, 80/20 rule, also explains why women are better players on average)
- I disagree that women love transactionally to the extent that's suggested. Since in most places of the world their baseline needs are met, women can adapt their sexual strategies to securing the best mates, resources aside.

[Dantes]

[quote='Nascimento' pid='1575274' dateline='1495373660']

- Women are more used to emotional turmoil

Yes, to expand on this point- women create drama in their daily lives with friends, colleagues and family members. A breakup is an extension of the emotional turmoil they seek and desire. Emotional highs and lows are an essential part of their constitution. They are better equipped at dealing with the feelings of loss and grief from the end of a relationship, as they have a psychological immunization towards it. Men as rational beings, seek to avoid emotional turmoil and achieve harmony in their relationships.

As a young college student I studied social exchange theory, the idea that relationships are not predicated on love and commitment, but rather and equal change of relational benefits. As a romantic, I remember feeling disillusioned and disappointed. It wasn't until later, with more experience with women that I accepted this principle as a sad reality.

I think the most difficult red pill to accept is that women will never fully commit to us in the way we expect or tantamount to our commitment to them.

As others have mentioned, women have more support from their community just as they do when they become sick. Observe how their community rallies around them when they experience illness, grief, and emotional duress. Men on the other hand, are expected to deal with it quietly and not to burden others with their trauma.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

There are 2 main reasons why this is easier for most women:

A) Women are psychologically built for this - War Widow mentality (mentally ready to marry the man who killed her husband) - women can adjust to that, though be careful - women can keep a grudge, 99 will marry you and adapt and one will kill you

B) Sausage Fest in the West - dick is easy to come by nowadays. Keep in mind that women who get dumped by super high value men don't do so well - since their Hypergamy has to step down a few notches they are usually in deep depression. Also if you took for example the US in the 1940s with a glut of women vs men due to WWII, then you certainly had plenty of women being far more obedient, traditional - also those that got dumped were far more desperate.

In essence women react to market forces, though their nature helps them to move on. But of course we know that an Alpha can imprint a bitch for life - only a bigger Alpha will break through that and often this is impossible to her.

[debeguiled]

Women aren't as deep as men, and they can't love as completely. Especially that first time. A good argument can be made that this simple fact is what creates civilization and culture, dudes trying to prove themselves to some skank, or pining for some woman and pouring all of that unrequited passion into making something of themselves.

That alpha widow stuff is bullshit. Women move on fine. A guy who doesn't move on never has a girlfriend again. An alpha widow has plenty of relationships and uses the alpha in the past to control the men in the present. To you or me, this wouldn't be moving on. To a woman this is fine. She is perfectly happy to be in a comfortable relationship with some clearly defined thing to complain about for the rest of her life.

I'm telling you, some of them are happy being unhappy. They have moved on. They are fine.

The reason it surprises us guys is that we don't know the depths of emotion and loyalty and love we are capable of until it hits us, and then it is too late. Look at Dante, writing brilliantly for that thot Beatrice. If he had game, we would never have gotten to read the Inferno.

Our problem is, like we expect to be taken at our word, we take women at their word, and they are always talking about love and relationships, so, like idiots, we think they really care about love and relationships.

A recent study came out concluding that the people who talk the most about morals and social justice and love are actually less loving and moral and concerned with actual justice than everyone else. Did we need a study to know that? Is the person with the bumper sticker more likely to embody the sentiments of the bumper sticker than the decent person just going about their business?

So why should love be any different?

Women are just relationship signaling.

[scenicway]

I also disagree about the Alpha widow.

It is dependent on the woman. After dealing with an "Alpha" some women (especially ones that are ready for children) are more then happy to go the "beta provider" route as they can't gamble again with the wall fast approaching. They reframe you as an asshole (reinforced by social circle), bury the emotions and move on. And I'm sure this manifests in problems for the new guy down the road. Don't be that guy.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Heh - Alpha widow is not referenced about the men they marry. The concept is solid and haunts many women. They compare their Beta provider with them on some level even if they themselves dumped him, because he is a violent psycho.

That is why virgin girls (unless only suppressed wannabe sluts) are so stable in marriages with a 10% divorce rate. Virginal girls have no reference points and imprint with the man they first are paired. (But I might add - they are often not really imprinted by Alpha husbands, just have lack of comparison.) Of course in the West there are massive pressure as to how a man should be. But I still think that most men with mid-level Game and frame could easily make a marriage with a virgin work and have very low risk of divorce.

Ah - another thing - many women had no Alpha in their sexual history who left an imprint on them. Also Alpha is something that is very specific and it takes some perception to recognize it in the woman - usually a combination of her own mental engrams, sexual chemistry, dark triad traits or Game, correct timing etc.

I know some women who had zero Alpha imprint and others who were ruined for life by one man (usually a Dark Triad one). You can even observe this with women in your family, ex-girlfriends etc. It is really funny to observe it when you see a 60yo still pine over the Dark Triad former husband who is a total loser in financial terms now (though still rock-solid in Alpha Frame and Game).

My estimation is that many girls get no imprint whatsoever. The world is filled with ageing fatties who import themselves a hot Jamaican or Muslim man because they never had someone close to an Alpha in her life (neither in Alpha frame nor high market value attractiveness). And they fall head over heels for that man despite everyone telling them that he is after the Green Card. At that moment they don't care, because that is the strongest man they ever had and even a 0.001% chance of keeping that man is good enough for women. Of course this would work not at all on hot girls.

[debeguiled]

(05-21-2017 01:28 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Heh - Alpha widow is not referenced about the men they marry. The concept is solid and haunts many women. They compare their Beta provider with them on some level even if they themselves dumped him, because he is a violent psycho.

I am not saying the concept doesn't exist. I am saying that there is no comparing a man not moving on and a woman not moving on. When a man doesn't move on, he really doesn't move on.

The women move on fine, and though they may be haunted by some out of their league stud from their past, they are fine, really, some of them are even happy with the situation, and all of them are especially happy to have some sort of leverage from the past over their current man.

There is no comparison between a man's pain and a woman's pain. This seems to me to be self evident.

[Jetset]

Consider the possibility that it is evolutionary.

History tells us that women who couldn't learn to be happy with the invading men who murdered their husbands fared poorly.

Thinking too hard about this is a bit like meditating on the old saw that your cat will supposedly eat you if you die.

[onering]

i believe that women have different minds to men which are specialized in different areas. while a man has more brainpower (or even processing power) in logic, reason and mechanical thought, teamwork and problem solving , women have a more developed processing power in body language, emotional signalling / processing and manipulation and arguing.

that's why its easier for women to move on because they are more likely in control of the relationship and more likely they make the decision to move on not the guy.

its also a factor of the world today. its common knowledge there is a glut of men thanks to china 1child policy (google if you dont know it). many of these 200m surplus chinese men have now moved out of china to the west, affecting the dating market for all men. they are also super ambitious since they know money is their only hope. lets not forget also the hordes of old men who in years gone by would not still be alive but thanks to medicine are still eyeing/flirting/dating younger women since women there own age are past their prime. then we include the indian/black/middle eastern men now in the west who all want a young white girl. and so it really is a womens market now more than ever and women know that.

however on the bright side look at the world . too many people there is less of a need for new humans on a planet of 7bn. however there is a shortage of scientists and people who can think logically so despite the crappy dating market for men i do think its a man's world. i actually feel sorry for women who cant do science knowing how brutal the world is today. there are too many people on the planet and too few that can do science and logic. look at the problems with the oceans, species dieing out etc. and look at the mediocrity in society these days (eg. justin bieber). look at the type of families breeding, black and muslims. are these all linked SURE. the world does not need any more people and that is what the female mind specializes in , families and breeding. so being a woman today is very difficult more difficult than a man. trust me ive met quite a few women my age (late 20s) and i see how they are living. even worse for families. supply and demand. there is no demand for minds that specialize in breeding and manipulation. what is needed is invention, people that can do math and science and that is what men bring to the table more than women.

you know in life always play to your strengths. so if u are a guy you are better off focusing your attention on business, science and logic rather than trying to play women at a game they are naturally better at. sure this cannot be popular on a pua forum but u guys would have better results if u focus your life on things you can do better than others. fact is 90% of women can do better at dating than u especially in todays world.

also i am not anti women far from it but there are many happy older guys out there with a ton of money who have steered clear of women. better to be them than one of the many guys who ended up in bad circumstance due to divorce or wasting his life chasing women.

ps. i have been involved with the pua world for 6 years now also done a few bootcamps.

[LeoneVolpe]

Women seem to move on from relationships faster than men because they initiate breakups more often than men. Essentially, whoever is the "breaker-upper" and not the "breaker-upee" is going to have an easier time dealing with the aftermath of a failed relationship. A breakup is always easier to deal with when it's your idea.

When a woman isn't happy in a relationship, she doesn't usually leave her man right away. Instead, she continues to stay with him all the while continuing to build resentment toward him until she can hardly stand to see his face. Once that happens, she's out the door. The man is caught off guard by her leaving since to him it seems to have "come out of left field" but in reality he just wasn't observant enough to read the writing on the wall.

[General Stalin]

Lots of great points in here. The biological evolution bit is a great and likely accurate concept, and scarcity/abundance is certainly accurate from my observation. Men being more the "romantic lover" is also true.

Another reason is that women are not loyal like men are. This goes along with the biological and romanticism points.

[Felix88]

Different from my experience, from what I have seen, many girls here are devastated for years after break ups.

And these are good looking girls I'm talking about.

[Matrixdude]

^That reminds me, what about Alpha-widows?

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(05-22-2017 01:31 AM)Felix88 Wrote:  

Different from my experience, from what I have seen, many girls here are devastated for years after break ups.

And these are good looking girls I'm talking about.

Alpha Widows - also women past a certain age can never recapture a man coming close to that level of infatuation with her.

[Felix88]

Actually, more than alpha windows, I think the culture has something to do with it.
In Vietnam, couples are expected to get married at some point and girls who date around are shame mercilessly by society and their own family, chances don't come to girls here easily like in western countries.

I've never had any experience with western women though.

[killjoy]

(05-22-2017 02:05 AM)Felix88 Wrote:  

Actually, more than alpha windows, I think the culture has something to do with it.
In Vietnam, couples are expected to get married at some point and girls who date around are shame mercilessly by society and their own family, chances don't come to girls here easily like in western countries.

I've never had any experience with western women though.

Is Tinder & other dating apps popular in Vietnam?

[Felix88]

Most girls I know don't know what dating apps is. They can't speak English.

[Dalaran1991]

Felix must be from an older generation. I was born in the 90s and hypergamy is all the rage in Vietnam. Back in high school girls openly mock guys who date them but dont have the money to take them to fancy restaurants and stuff. They also jump from one guy to another pretty quickly, no remorse no shame. It can happen that a girl going on date with a guy would bring her whole harem of girl friends with her and expect the guy to pay for it.

There are the more homely girls who would cook you dinner and be generally feminine, but they move on just as quick as over here. Beta orbiters are a real thing in Vietnam.

Note that I'm only talking about the cute / pretty girls. Dont know dont care about 6s or below. Still charting this up to a matter of having option. Nobody shames girls for dating around anymore. They shame guys who dont have the means to "provide" for the girls they date.

Good news is that Western "Game" is coming to Vietnam, championed by a Viet redpiller who studied in USA.

[Bluesunrise]

A few things :
■ Chemistry : If the chemistry is not fully there she wont care she ll move on. By chemistry I am talking about the bubble you create with her...
■ Evolution : A woman can all the time be less caring and less "down" cause from an evolutionary stand point she is designed to choose the best so she doesn t feel the urge as we men do to go for the close immediately.
■ Feminism : This aspect is very important esspecialy for women who have leadership kinds of jobs. Their TRUE NATURE is broken by the feminism so they will slowly but surely continue to act as alpha males and they will realy don t care even If your game is on point. These women may not be hardcore feminists themselves but as they are exposed to the feminist ideas and they can have a fucked up feminine side. It depends how she was raised and what kind of life experiences she had. There are women who are less affected by feminism and some are very affected. But the feminism is ALWAYS there like a streaming communist radios in Nord Korea and it is continuing the propaganda with an agenda which is designed to kill the family and the heterosexual mating....

[Felix88]

(05-22-2017 03:31 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Felix must be from an older generation. I was born in the 90s and hypergamy is all the rage in Vietnam. Back in high school girls openly mock guys who date them but dont have the money to take them to fancy restaurants and stuff. They also jump from one guy to another pretty quickly, no remorse no shame. It can happen that a girl going on date with a guy would bring her whole harem of girl friends with her and expect the guy to pay for it.

There are the more homely girls who would cook you dinner and be generally feminine, but they move on just as quick as over here. Beta orbiters are a real thing in Vietnam.

Note that I'm only talking about the cute / pretty girls. Dont know dont care about 6s or below. Still charting this up to a matter of having option. Nobody shames girls for dating around anymore. They shame guys who dont have the means to "provide" for the girls they date.

Good news is that Western "Game" is coming to Vietnam, championed by a Viet redpiller who studied in USA.

I'm not much older than you and I live in the south.
The thing though, I screen people very carefully so I don't generally hang around with shitty people and people with bad families, my experiences are very much filtered.

[e-smile]

(05-22-2017 01:31 AM)Felix88 Wrote:  

Different from my experience, from what I have seen, many girls here are devastated for years after break ups.

And these are good looking girls I'm talking about.

I agree. Although I previously gave some reasons that helps women move on faster than men I'm not actually sure they do. They make it look like they did move on but you can't judge a book by it's cover.

[H1N1]

Girls don't necessarily move on that quickly, I don't think. They can become infatuated and addicted to a guy with an almost endearing predictability, and recovering from that when it is ripped away from her, when noone else has made her feel like that, can do enormous damage to her long term self-esteem and cause great unhappiness.

They can be quite ruthless and self-serving of course when dealing on their own terms - much more so than most men, but they are creatures of the here and now and can often make tremendously sensible short term choices that none-the-less go against their longer term interests.

Make a girl give her self to you, mind, body and soul - really take everything she has to give as a walking embodiment of sex and then strip that away from her, and you can cause a hurt from which she won't recover for years, if ever.

It is vanishingly rare for a woman to be able to find a man who can really totally satisfy every aspect of her nature. Once experienced, all other lovers will suffer by comparison. Whereas for a man it is rather easier to take consolation in the company of some impossibly succulent young pussy that goes some way towards satisfying the majority of his sexual requirements. It's not a total fix, but I would say our lot is rather better, if we'd only let it be.

[Jean Valjean]

(05-21-2017 08:08 AM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

Ask yourself this, if you were a Leo Di Caprio would it be hard for you to move on?

It depends on if she convinced you that she was such a special snowflake that even a Leo DiCaprio would have a hard time replacing her. People are always commenting on happy-looking celebrities with unattractive wives. It COULD just be that the guy really did find his soulmate and therefore even though she's not all that beautiful by conventional standards, she seems beautiful to him. I'm sure the money helps, but not every woman who's with a rich guy is with him because of the money. Didn't Priscilla Chan, for instance, start dating Mark Zuckerberg before he got rich?

I've noticed, even people who are well-off often have only a few really close friends. If there's a girl who was awesome in the sack, plus she was a friend you were particularly fond of, even if you're rich, it can seem like a loss when she's gone.

I'm not entirely convinced of the premise of the thread. There have been times when I had no other girls lined up, yet I still dumped a girl and she was the one who was devastated. Or she dumped me, and I still shrugged and thought, "Whatever," despite not having other options lined up.

I think one-itis is not so much about thinking, "Oh, that was the ONLY girl I could get." It's about thinking, "I'll never find a girl whom I could be as fond of as I was of that girl, because she was special." Maybe you can find a girl who will be more loyal to you than that girl was, but you won't feel the same fondness toward her, so it won't be the same.

Now, maybe you can distract yourself with the next girl to the point that the pain from the loss is only 1% of what it was. But from time to time, that 1% will still gnaw at you a little bit and remind you of what you wish you could have, if it were possible. Unfortunately, the light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

The remaining 1% of what was the most intense grief you've ever felt in your life is still enough to be noticeable. The memory of what you went through makes you promise yourself, "There's no way in hell I will ever open myself up to be hurt like that again." But the damage is already done.

Girls get infatuated with guys, guys get infatuated with girls, and they're both capable of pining till the day they die for one who seemed special. I would even say that the psychological effects of getting dumped are similar in both sexes. Guys become bitter, untrusting, guarded, and angry just like girls do, after getting betrayed, and then that affects future relationships. Maybe it's just me, but I also think that my early sexual experiences shaped my preferences of what I like a woman to do in bed. That could be considered a form of imprinting.

I also noticed, even though my sister has had a lot of boyfriends, and has never been someone I would think of as lacking in options, if she met a guy at a party and banged him that night and then he didn't call later like she expected, she could spend weeks analyzing the situation and speculating about what happened. She would go round and round in circles saying, "It seemed like we hit it off so well, and really resonated with each other, and had a deep connection, and great sex. But he still hasn't gotten back in touch with me." She would come up with a theory to explain his behavior, and say that she was putting the matter to rest and moving on, and then later come up with another theory, and another.

In one particular instance, the guy finally wrote to her and apologized for disappearing, and said that he was way too busy working on himself to have a relationship at the moment. She took it at face value and said, "See, this is the problem with living in a higher-consciousness community like this. I keep meeting awesome guys, but it's so hard to find one who's ready for a relationship because they're all so busy working on themselves!" (She likes to hang out in New Agey communities like Boulder, Sedona, etc. and bang spiritual gurus and Sensitive New Age Guys, aka SNAGs.)

[questor70]

It's not that women don't suffer from breakups, just that they appear to bounce back quicker/easier. There are studies that back this up:

http://www.binghamton.edu/inside/index.p...ore-fully/