[Pilgrim37]

I guess this is for most of the Yanks's out there.

As a Brit ,when I was in the US I was amazed at how much people were hot on going to college in general, but Ivy League in particular.

It was as if you couldn't get anywhere decent in life without it.For certain professions I know that's true.

Is there an Ivy league old school tie thing going on there?Much like Oxford/Cambridge dominance of certain professions here i.e. journalism,law.

If you went to an Ivy League do you feel that merely attending has eased your way in life and boosted your confidence?

Did more panties go "Ping" when you mentioned to a young lady which college you attended?

Up until the last 5 - 10 years or so,it wasn't that big a deal to go to university here in the UK;until the last Labour government had the goal of sending 50% of school leavers.
Pretty ridiculous ambition...as we're now finding out here with all the Mickey Mouse degrees they're coming out with....Media Studies anyone?

But,I can see now, years later ,how the cache of Oxbridge would have made quite a difference and opened doors which are now firmly barred.

[Pledge]

In many career fields, if you don't go to a Tier 1 / Top 12 grad school, you're wasting your time. If you get an MBA that is not from a Tier 1 school, you've almost definitely pissed money away.

If you have access to an Ivy League education, it is worth it. It would be exceedingly rare (and stupid) that someone who has access chooses not to go.

[Dash Global]

i doubt many ivy league schoolers on this forum... lol

most of them are not the "game" type

[Menace]

I have a graduate degree from an ivy league school. At the time I didn't think it would make any difference, but it does. In professions where prestige is important it definitely helps. Basically it's a high end brand that used as a presumption for intelligence and eliteness.

Might help in places like dc where girls are kind of credentialist, but without good game I suspect it will be of limited benefit.

[Roosh]

(08-28-2011 05:42 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

i doubt many ivy league schoolers on this forum... lol

most of them are not the "game" type

You'd be surprised.

[Vitriol]

(08-28-2011 03:53 PM)Pilgrim37 Wrote:  

Did more panties go "Ping" when you mentioned to a young lady which college you attended?

In the U.S. this definitely does not help at all. It's more likely that a girl's pussy will dry up when you start talking about your education and credentials. It's "boring" to them.

As for ivy leagues in general, a lot of my friends when I was in professional school went to ivy league undergrads and basically ended up in the same situation as me, so I really don't think it makes much of a difference aside from maybe access to better networks.

[Gunner]

In Finance it matters a lot, if you want to do I Banking at a Bulge Bank you need to have a top 10 degree.

[YoungGunner]

(08-28-2011 07:13 PM)bars Wrote:  

In Finance it matters a lot, if you want to do I Banking at a Bulge Bank you need to have a top 10 degree.

for grad school I agree but for undergrad I don't think it would matter that much, no

[Stitch]

Actually, I'm finding that Oxbridge has quite the cachet over here in the states, because it's relatively unusual to meet an American with an advanced degree from a recognizable foreign university like Oxford or Cambridge, so it triggers a sort of "oh, you must be really smart and cultured with that overseas experience" reaction... and it's probably not as unusual-seeming in its home country. Just like being from Harvard in the states generally has the same reaction that Vitriol mentioned, but overseas it probably triggers the "Oh, he's from America and also went to a university I've heard of; he must be wealthy and/or successful" reaction.

At least, I'm finding it useful in that respect, both in the personal and professional worlds.

[UrbanNerd]

In professions where the supply/demand has stiff competition (high finance/I-Banking, etc), YES being from a Top-10/Ivy school matters a lot.

In professions where there are more available jobs than candidates like say software engineering...no it doesn't matter much.

[velkrum]

I was under the impression that the Ivy League schools benefitted lawyers and business /banking folks.

If you didn't want to be in those 2 fields, Ivy League education was no better or worse than any other University.

[UrbanNerd]

(08-28-2011 07:47 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

I was under the impression that the Ivy League schools benefitted lawyers and business /banking folks.

If you didn't want to be in those 2 fields, Ivy League education was no better or worse than any other University.

Exactly, because only Law and High Finance/I-Banking are probably the only fields that would give an Ivy League grad a chance at making the income to get a return-on-investment for the money spent going to any Ivy.

In Engineering/Computer Science, a company "may" pay an Ivy League grad maybe 10%-15% more in starting salary...which doesn't mean anything when you think about the potential amount of tuition debt the Ivy League grad may have.

[Neo]

It depends on the field. I'm sure some people went to Ivy undergrads majored in something pointless and pretty much squandered their opportunities.

In fields like finance or law however it makes a huge difference. Knowing a lot of attorneys, I will say if you don't go to a top 10 law school(some will argue top 5) it's pretty much not worth the debt.

[Menace]

It's important to understand that an Ivy League education is not primarily about what you learn academically, but rather about the available opportunities, social networking, and access to elite organizations/people. Otherwise in terms of academics, any good state school (e.g. UNC) is at least as good.

I TA'ed Ivy League undergrads. There were certainly many smart ones among the bunch, but there were also dead stupid ones. Same as any other place.

[Tuthmosis]

(08-28-2011 07:28 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

In professions where the supply/demand has stiff competition (high finance/I-Banking, etc), YES being from a Top-10/Ivy school matters a lot.

In professions where there are more available jobs than candidates like say software engineering...no it doesn't matter much.

(08-28-2011 07:47 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

I was under the impression that the Ivy League schools benefitted lawyers and business /banking folks.

If you didn't want to be in those 2 fields, Ivy League education was no better or worse than any other University.

I'm afraid both of you are grossly mistaken. I can't think of something that gives you a greater advantage in any field (especially in landing that all-important first job, but all throughout your career) than getting a degree from one of the elite--especially "Ancient Eight"--universities. All other things being equal, the guy with the degree from Yale will beat the guy coming out of the University of Whatever at Wherever nine times out of ten. Elite bias is alive and well in nearly every profession in America. If nothing else, that degree gets your resume an extra minute of reading time from the hiring manager. Sometimes that's all you need. If you've ever been in a position to hire people, you've seen this happen. I certainly have.

Finance/banking and law are no more competitive than academia, publishing, high-level government work, top-notch science firms, entertainment (writing and creative), and a host of other industries. What's more, every industry (regardless of how "competitive" it is) has positions and firms that are more coveted than others.

All of this isn't to say you can't get a job or a build a career--and a good one--with a degree from a "regular" state school. It's to say that an Ivy-League degree is a significant leg-up. Just the networking and connections alone are worth the price of admission. You're rubbing elbows with the children of the American (and often international) elite, instead of regular-ass joes; old people returning to school; and poor, immigrant kids (no disrespect). To use a game analog, think of going to an Ivy-League school as being a 6'3", blonde, athletic, white dude with straight teeth, thick hair, a rich-guy laugh. Sure, you can still get laid if you're a guy--to use Mixx's description--who looks like California Raisin, but you're going to work a lot harder and better have some tight-ass game. But, if the rich white guy has even marginally competent game, you can bet your bottom dollar he's getting first dibs.

When you're all done with your schooling, generations of wildly successful, well-established alumni are willing to meet with you, and often help you--even offering you selective entry-level jobs--for no other reason than you went to the same school they did. Ivy League schools organize networking events throughout the country, paying high-profile speakers to talk at them, which allows alumni to stay connected with the community years after--and states away--from their time on the campus, because high-profile alumni are willing to go to events to hear the high-profile speakers. To make matters worse (or better, depending on how you look at it), their children automatically have a better chance of going to that school because of legacy admissions--creating a sort of American educational aristocracy. They get the benefit of the "extra look" for no other reason than their parents having gone there.

Sure, average schools make an attempt at reproducing these opportunities for their alumni, but they simply can't compete. The Ivies are richer, have deeper roots, and prestige than the others can ever hope to achieve. Moreover, a sizeable majority of the nation's elite went to the Ivies (and the very tiny number of "peer schools"), so the others lack that vital connection.

It's a fucked up state of affairs--it certainly shouldn't be this way--but an Ivy-League degree is a solid, permanent plus in your corner. That shit follows you around for the rest of your life, in a good way. The exceptions (people who squander their top-rate education, or have risen to the very top echelons with a "normal" education) simply prove the rule.

[UrbanNerd]

Ummm....

I think it is known that an Ivy grad vs. a state-school grad will get the nod for a specific "job", but if you are in fields with many more job openings than grads...then the "Ivy grad vs. a state-school grad" doesn't mean as much just because of sheer numbers.

In business, yes, it helps a lot because the first thing that is asked is "which B-School you attended?". In the software field, the Ivy grads will get first "dibbs" on jobs at Google, etc but just how many of those jobs are there when you look at all of the available jobs.

Add in the defense/government sector in somewhere like DC and the first question asked is "what is the level of your clearance?"

Even the "select engineering" jobs for Ivies will not pay much more than a state-school engineering grad.

Now finance and I-Banking...total different story.

[Pledge]

(08-28-2011 07:47 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

I was under the impression that the Ivy League schools benefitted lawyers and business /banking folks.

If you didn't want to be in those 2 fields, Ivy League education was no better or worse than any other University.

Ive League is always better. If you have one position and two similar applicants, one who went to Harvard and another who went to Random State School, guess which one is likely to be partying at SkyBar while the other tries to fuck white trash girls fresh off their shift at Dennys?

[velkrum]

I understand what you are all saying. I have chosen the medical field (doctor) and there is a vast amount of opportunities any and every where in the country. I was looking at things through a small perspective.

If jobs for doctors started becoming scarce then yes I can absolutely see the prestige of a school (and numerous other factors) appearing more desirable in a competitive situation.

[cibo]

(08-28-2011 07:47 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

I was under the impression that the Ivy League schools benefitted lawyers and business /banking folks.

If you didn't want to be in those 2 fields, Ivy League education was no better or worse than any other University.

I work at the London office of a tech firm you've heard of doing market research. It's full of Ivy leaguers and the European equivalent. Just this week, my VP introduced me to the Americans dropping by to check out our offices by saying, "Here's our intern from [top UK school]"

Truth is, brand and network matters. I've had access to some pretty amazing people. I've even had a Duke help me fix my Xbox. If you have the opportunity to go to a top tier school go for it. Even good US public schools like my undergrad really can't compete in terms of opportunities.

Honestly, it kind of annoys me since I was pretty smart without the masters but I couldn't get a job for the life of me during the recession until i dropped some serious cash for grad school. Now, I've been invited meet to with firms who would have used my resume to wipe their asses 2 years ago.

[OSL]

----

[Neo]

(08-28-2011 08:21 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

When you're all done with your schooling, generations of wildly successful, well-established alumni are willing to meet with you, and often help you--even offering you selective entry-level jobs--for no other reason than you went to the same school they did. Ivy League schools organize networking events throughout the country, paying high-profile speakers to talk at them, which allows alumni to stay connected with the community years after--and states away--from their time on the campus, because high-profile alumni are willing to go to events to hear the high-profile speakers. To make matters worse (or better, depending on how you look at it), their children automatically have a better chance of going to that school because of legacy admissions--creating a sort of American educational aristocracy. They get the benefit of the "extra look" for no other reason than their parents having gone there.

Interesting.

[Kona]

I think the college I went to was in the top 12 when I graduated. I learned s lot and could have gone to fancy law schools or whatever, but I didn't. People from there seem to always come to me that need stuff, and it's never been the other way around. The high class school hasn't really effected me at all.

My sister went to Yale and it's gotten her all kinds of shit. She got money from folks for her business.

I have my fishing business advertised through my school and hers for graduates, and I always massively overcharge them. They got money since they went to high-end schools.

Aloha!

[MikeCF]

Sorry guys, but thinking it DOES NOT matter is wishful thinking.

If you're a "Yale man," you can screw up and will always find a good gig. People will assume the problem was your company, as how could a Yale man have failed?

"The greatest trick the Elite ever pulled was convincing the world they didn't exist."

[MrM27]

Dash Global is right that most Ivy guys are not the game type. I'm a Cornell grad. I used to have to drag guys out to be wingman. Cornell was full of so many fugly, entitled princesses that we had to raid Ithaca College when possible. It opens doors. You either network while in college with the rich kids' parents or you network with a professor who happens to like you. All of the Ivies have special study abroad programs that are not the corporate mill type programs. On top of that, companies will always search for summer interns in many fields at Ivy schools that they don't bother offering for anywhere else. Even the kumbaya social justice types get the inside track. An ex of mine is now leading the housing and green redevelopment program for northern California. The incentive is there as even at the Ivy colleges there are entry level job postings only available to certain majors with high enough GPAs. You think they are interviewing the top kids at Ole Miss for those jobs, too? No way. An Ivy degree is to employers, think tanks or whatever like a pre-selection that you are smart and capable or, if you are the trust fund trash legacy kids, the child of someone smart and capable. At 18, when I got the acceptance there, I knew it was a sort of willy wonka golden ticket. Anyone saying otherwise is lying through their teeth.

The best way I can say it makes a difference is looking at my friends from high school (rural middle class) vs. my friends from Cornell. I graduated during the early 2000s recession. I had a job, not my dream (at the time) I-banking job, but a job with a Fortune 500 company that they never would have taken a chance on me for unless my degree had the Ivy stamp of approval. My high school friends who went to other schools are a diverse socioeconomic group. Some are doing well, some are scraping by. My Cornell friends ALL are earning north of 70K with multiple friends over 150K. The name recognition and Ivy cache do go a long way, which I usually hide from women until they ask me about my college days. It does impact people. Move outside of the Boston-Washington corridor, and it is a bigger marker.


There is another difference between my high school friends and Cornell friends. The Cornellians are a spiritually miserable bunch of shits who are caught up in the materialism game that they told me in college they never wanted to do (like their 'evil' parents) with a couple happy guys in there. My friends from high school live happier lives, which is evident in their communication with me. I view money as a ticket to freedom. My Cornell friends have been sucked into that money is the mark of success idea. Some people ask me about why I don't get my MBA. My undergrad college's rep is so strong, I don't need it for what I want in life. For me, an Ivy degree has made a large impact as I have an awesome and comfortable life now thanks to that diploma. Part of that is the opportunity that degree gave me, part is DNA, and part is the home environment I had. You are in charge of how your life moves, which is proven by the number of ski instructors and stay at home moms with Ivy degrees. My years at Cornell weren't everything to my success, but I'm not going to kid myself and downplay its impact.

[BostonBMW]

Without a doubt an Ivy League degree opens up the doors. I didn't go to an Ivy for undergrad but I can definitely attest to the power of the degree.