[rw95]

Turkey has fallen.

[SamuelBRoberts]

When was the last time it was standing up?

[nomadbrah]

I don't really blame the Turks, Erdogan is sort of a Putin character, the Kurds are their Chechens, Putin is for traditional christianity, Erdogan is a muslim traditionalist, both resent American and CIA involvement and they just had a likely CIA backed coup fail. Non westerners are wholesale rejecting liberal democracy and who can blame them. We have nothing to offer except broken families, sexual deviancy and abstract ideas.

It is sort of ironic that the Turks reject the heritage of Ataturk because they wouldn't even exist without him.

[911]

(04-16-2017 02:56 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  

"Islam, this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives."

-- Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

He's right and his legacy is forever tarnished now.

If you dig a bit deeper into his legacy and that of the Young Turks, you'd find that they're responsible for the massacre of Armenians and Greeks on a genocidal scale. The Young Turks and Ataturk were backed by the same people who financed the Bolcheviks.

The main goals were the elimination of Greek influence and commercial power in the Eastern Mediterranean, as they, along with Armenians, were the main rivals of the Donmeh and their kin in Europe. Access to oil in Baku and the Middle East, and the creation of the state of Israel meant the destruction of the Ottoman Empire.

There was also a question of ideology, those who pulled the strings and planned WW1 wanted to destroy the Ottoman Empire for the same reasons they wanted to destroy the Russian and Austro-Hungarian empires.

Ataturk was a Sabattean domneh from Salonika (much like Sarkozy's mother) who was into wife swapping and young men. He married an upper class Turkish woman who quickly divorced him (a huge deal back in the 1920s) because she couldn't put up with his lifestyle. To this day, her diaries and personal correspondence are off-limit. He's cited in year zero French and Belgian schools textbooks as a homosexual along with Alexander the Great and other famous homos.


"As opposed to the current situation, journalists were much more independent in the past, and diplomats were much more straightforward. The press and diplomatic correspondence of the time is replete with information on the massacres of civilian Armenians by Kemalists in the territory of the Republic of Armenia (September, 1920 to April, 1921) and Cilicia (February, 1920), as well as the massacres of Greeks and Armenians in Smyrna (September, 1922). It is not without reason that in 1921, the body of Kemalist leadership – the Grand National Assembly of Turkey – granted the title of ghazi, the “Destroyer of Infidels” or the “Destroyer of Christians” to Mustafa Kemal."

http://asbarez.com/90321/wikileaks-befor...n-ataturk/

Further readings on the subject:

Another researcher said: "The Donmeh showed great public affection with Islam but amongst themselves entirely rejected and even despised Islam." There is no need to say that they also in secret hated and despised more the Christians of the Ottoman Empire. Those same "Turkish" Donmeh were the ones that were in power in Turkey during WW1 when the Armenian Genocide occured. They were the visible rulers of the Ottoman Empire and they carried out and gave orders for the slaughter --in a most unimaginable barbaric way and according to plans they had-- of almost the whole Christian population of Asia Minor: One and half million Armenians, half a million Greeks and Greek Pontians, and half a million Assyrians and Caldeans.

http://www.rense.com/general64/zzzio.htm

http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/03/t...ean-roots/

https://www.henrymakow.com/2015/11/moder...onist.html

[LEMONed IScream]

911, Ataturk was not without his faults. I know about most of that already.

Even considering that, the bottom line is that Ataturk, with all his faults, is a knight in shining armor compared to Islamic rule of Turkey. At least in my opinion.

[Rossi]

They found 1.8 million votes illegal votes today and all of them were for "Yes."

When you vote, you get a stamp, you stamp it on either "Yes" or "No" but stamp itself prints out "Chose"

But these 1.8 million votes had stamp of "Yes", when you stamp it, it doesnt print "Chose", it prints as "Yes"

Apparently, no official stamps print out "Yes" when you stamp it.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(04-16-2017 09:12 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

Turkey has fallen.

That country had fallen when the Ottomans conquered Constantinople and destroyed the last post-Roman civilization.

In return this is the beginning of the end of the Neo-Ottomans. I expect them to become ever more radical and Islamic in the next years and decades. They will die in the fires of WWIII.

[YossariansRight]

(04-17-2017 08:50 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 09:12 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

Turkey has fallen.

That country had fallen when the Ottomans conquered Constantinople and destroyed the last post-Roman civilization.

In return this is the beginning of the end of the Neo-Ottomans. I expect them to become ever more radical and Islamic in the next years and decades. They will die in the fires of WWIII.

Yes. As they say, “There are no atheists in foxholes.” When Europe finds themselves staring into the abyss, they’ll find religion and their will to live and survive.

[Rossi]

Erdogan: "Honor the agreement we signed last June or we won't also keep our promises, you'll have to pay the price and deal with 4 million refugees by this summer."

Just an hour ago.

Merkel is one of the worst deal-maker in whole Europe. Let's see how she'll clean up this mess now.

[Foolsgo1d]

^ Link?

Can't find it on sites.

[Rossi]

It was on EuroNews Tv.

It's also on here but it's Turkish: http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/erdogandan-ab...n-40429935

[scrambled]

(04-16-2017 09:08 PM)Once Was Not Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:13 PM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  

Democracy dies with thunderous applause. Ataturk is rolling in his grave. Having Turkey in Nato is a complete joke.

They're in entirely because of their strategic geographical positioning. Maybe if the victorious empires of WW1 would have sacked up and taken Constantinople back like they should have done we could've let the Turks rot over in Anatolia. Of course, Europe hasn't done much right since that war to begin with. Now we have to play nice with a new emerging caliphate that's still in control of the damn straits.

1453 worst year of my life

They tried to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_...man_Empire

but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Wa...dependence

Gotta give credit for ferocity and tenacity, they can fight

[Khan]

(04-17-2017 03:39 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

Erdogan: "Honor the agreement we signed last June or we won't also keep our promises, you'll have to pay the price and deal with 4 million refugees by this summer."

Just an hour ago.

Merkel is one of the worst deal-maker in whole Europe. Let's see how she'll clean up this mess now.

She'll make some half-arsed attempt at cleaning up, which will only make things worse in the long-term. And that's only because elections are due in September - if this wasn't an election year, she probably wouldn't even bother.

[47R]

(04-17-2017 07:31 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

They found 1.8 million votes illegal votes today and all of them were for "Yes."

When you vote, you get a stamp, you stamp it on either "Yes" or "No" but stamp itself prints out "Chose"

But these 1.8 million votes had stamp of "Yes", when you stamp it, it doesnt print "Chose", it prints as "Yes"

Apparently, no official stamps print out "Yes" when you stamp it.

Resource ?

[Rossi]

United States %84 No
Australia %59 No
UAE %89 No
China %76 No
Russia %73 No
Greece %73 No
New Zealand %82
Italy %62


France %64 Yes
Holland %70 Yes
Austria %74 Yes
Denmark %60 Yes
Germany %63 Yes
Belgium %75 Yes

These Turks from Holland-Belgium-Germany always vote for left parties in those European countries but when it comes to Turkey, they end up voting for dictatorship.

I hope Germany, Holland, Belgium, Austria will have to make those Turks either pick Turkish passport or Dutch/German/Belgian or Austria.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

No surprise - the countries with huge Turkish population coming from the most backwards regions of Turkey are predominantly pro Caliphate. The less there are of them and the more secular they are, the better it gets.

The radicals and the backward part of Turkey will drag the entire country into a war with the West/China & India that they cannot possibly win. They have just honor-killed themselves just like the Europeans commit suicide via voting for pro-refugee parties.

[911]

Erdogan is playing a murky game, one week he's shooting down Russian planes, the next he's shutting down power in a NATO base, he's all over the place.

(04-18-2017 10:59 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

United States %84 No
Australia %59 No
UAE %89 No
China %76 No
Russia %73 No
Greece %73 No
New Zealand %82
Italy %62


France %64 Yes
Holland %70 Yes
Austria %74 Yes
Denmark %60 Yes
Germany %63 Yes
Belgium %75 Yes

These Turks from Holland-Belgium-Germany always vote for left parties in those European countries but when it comes to Turkey, they end up voting for dictatorship.

I hope Germany, Holland, Belgium, Austria will have to make those Turks either pick Turkish passport or Dutch/German/Belgian or Austria.

Zel is right, middle-class college educated urban Turks in N.America or Oz are anti-dictatorship and, by and large, a good bunch, I've dated one from Toronto a few years ago.

[rottenapple]

(04-18-2017 10:59 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

United States %84 No
Australia %59 No
UAE %89 No
China %76 No
Russia %73 No
Greece %73 No
New Zealand %82
Italy %62


France %64 Yes
Holland %70 Yes
Austria %74 Yes
Denmark %60 Yes
Germany %63 Yes
Belgium %75 Yes

These Turks from Holland-Belgium-Germany always vote for left parties in those European countries but when it comes to Turkey, they end up voting for dictatorship.

I hope Germany, Holland, Belgium, Austria will have to make those Turks either pick Turkish passport or Dutch/German/Belgian or Austria.

Biggest right wing party in Belgium (NVA) just put this on the table. But even if you implement it on a national level, you can't exactly oblige Turkey to not accept them as citizens anymore when they choose Belgium. It becomes complicated legally, don't see it happening anytime soon.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

And the best is that truly highly-intelligent secular Turks living in the West like the German Akif Pirincci are called racists and Islamophobes, because they are warning about Islam and about the receding secularization in Turkey:


(here with his book - Germany going crazy)

He is a bestseller author who got his recent book-deals cancelled because he does not play ball with the Merkel-establishment. Erdogan would have killed him and he likely could not go to most parts of Turkey, so at least that is an improvement.

Guys like him openly say that they love Germany and love the culture. But that is beh to most Muslims - you are Muslim first, Turk second and are told to hate the Western Whites, so no wonder that they vote for Sultan Erdogan.

[Rossi]

(04-18-2017 11:54 AM)rottenapple Wrote:  

Biggest right wing party in Belgium (NVA) just put this on the table. But even if you implement it on a national level, you can't exactly oblige Turkey to not accept them as citizens anymore when they choose Belgium. It becomes complicated legally, don't see it happening anytime soon.

Germany did this in past. For example, if I can give you example from football, Mehmet Scholl, Mesut Ozil, Ilkay Gundogan who are born in Germany but they opted out for German passport to be able to play for Germany National team. They don't have Turkish passport.

I think Germany recently have changed this law around like 2008 or something.

20 years ago, it wasn't possible to have Turkish passport and German passport at the same time. Luckily, we don't have these uneducated ones in Italy a lot. We have Albanians and Romanians instead.

Most terrible Turks I've ever seen are from Holland-Belgium-Denmark-Austria. Most of their parents never ever been in Istanbul before they fled to these European countries. Terrible people. We should force them to pick either European passport or Turkish passport.

If they love Erdogan and dictatorship so much, they should all go back there and leave Europe anyhow.

[Rossi]

Congrats to Austria and Holland.

By June 1st, they are basically telling Turkish people in those countries, either to keep Dutch/Austrian passport or Turkish passport. They have to make choices. Dual-citizenship won't be allowed anymore.

But Germany and France have to do it as soon as possible too.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Steyn giving a breakdown for the uninitiated like myself.

Quote:

So the "moderate Islamist" turned out to be not so moderate. Hey, why would that be? Answer (as it usually is with me): demography. From that April 16th 2007 column:

Quote:

Since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, there have been two Turkeys: the Turks of Rumelia, or European Turkey, and the Turks of Anatolia, or Asia Minor. Kemal Atatürk was from Rumelia and so were most of his supporters, and they imposed the modern Turkish Republic on a somewhat relunctant Anatolia, where Atatürk's distinction between the state and Islam was never accepted. In its 80-year history, the population has increased from 14 million in 1923 to 70 million today, but the vast bulk of that population growth has come from Anatolia, whose population has migrated from the rural hinterland to overwhelm the once solidly Kemalist cities. Atatürk's modern secular Turkey has simply been outbred by fiercely Islamic Turkey. That's a lesson in demography from an all-Muslim sample: no pasty white blokes were involved.

I returned to the theme in my 2010 "Who Lost Turkey?" piece, and I suppose I could rewrite the same sentiment sideways yet again. But, as readers have noticed, I'm beginning to despair of having to say the same thing over and over to no effect until the day I expire.

After so long being right, Steyn is largely reduced these days to quoting himself. The upside is that if you read him for long enough then you can stop and you won't miss anything new, because there's nothing new in the world to miss.

p.s. If Zel isn't Steyn in disguise then I'm certain they'd find each other in good company.

[911]

(04-19-2017 09:30 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

Congrats to Austria and Holland.

By June 1st, they are basically telling Turkish people in those countries, either to keep Dutch/Austrian passport or Turkish passport. They have to make choices. Dual-citizenship won't be allowed anymore.

But Germany and France have to do it as soon as possible too.

That move is largely symbolic, because Turkey will always recognize their citizenship...

(04-19-2017 10:08 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Steyn giving a breakdown for the uninitiated like myself.

Quote:

So the "moderate Islamist" turned out to be not so moderate. Hey, why would that be? Answer (as it usually is with me): demography. From that April 16th 2007 column:

Quote:

Since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, there have been two Turkeys: the Turks of Rumelia, or European Turkey, and the Turks of Anatolia, or Asia Minor. Kemal Atatürk was from Rumelia and so were most of his supporters, and they imposed the modern Turkish Republic on a somewhat relunctant Anatolia, where Atatürk's distinction between the state and Islam was never accepted. In its 80-year history, the population has increased from 14 million in 1923 to 70 million today, but the vast bulk of that population growth has come from Anatolia, whose population has migrated from the rural hinterland to overwhelm the once solidly Kemalist cities. Atatürk's modern secular Turkey has simply been outbred by fiercely Islamic Turkey. That's a lesson in demography from an all-Muslim sample: no pasty white blokes were involved.

I returned to the theme in my 2010 "Who Lost Turkey?" piece, and I suppose I could rewrite the same sentiment sideways yet again. But, as readers have noticed, I'm beginning to despair of having to say the same thing over and over to no effect until the day I expire.

After so long being right, Steyn is largely reduced these days to quoting himself. The upside is that if you read him for long enough then you can stop and you won't miss anything new, because there's nothing new in the world to miss.

p.s. If Zel isn't Steyn in disguise then I'm certain they'd find each other in good company.

Steyn is mostly right here, but it's not quite a continental divide between Europe and Asia Minor, it's more about the sharp divide between the cities and remote rural areas. Turks whose families are originally from cities like Izmir or Adana are a lot more "civilized" than those who have filed in from the countryside, the two settings are worlds apart. When you visit older middle or upper class neighborhoods in Istanbul or Izmir, you can see that those places have had a high degree of civilization for centuries.

That dynamic holds for the rest of the middle east, in countries like Iran or Syria, where the urban middle class has been greatly outbred by the more backwards rural hordes who have been piling in into the cities. You can substitute Tehran or Damascus for Istanbul or Izmir.

It does not hold in the Gulf countries though, where just about everybody was a desert dweller one or two generations back, and that is reflected in Wahhabi culture and its nefarious role in shaping modern global islam.

[Rossi]

(04-19-2017 10:17 AM)911 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 09:30 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

Congrats to Austria and Holland.

By June 1st, they are basically telling Turkish people in those countries, either to keep Dutch/Austrian passport or Turkish passport. They have to make choices. Dual-citizenship won't be allowed anymore.

But Germany and France have to do it as soon as possible too.

That move is largely symbolic, because Turkey will always recognize their citizenship...

No, they won't.

Because there are roughly 5 million Turkish people in Germany right now and over 1.6 million of them de-announced their Turkish passport between 1999 to 2008.

You couldn't have dual-citizenship, Turkish/German at the same time. I dated a girl for 2 months who was born in Stuttgart but Turkish origin, she had to give up her Turkish citizenship to keep her German passport.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(04-19-2017 09:30 AM)Rossi Wrote:  

Congrats to Austria and Holland.

By June 1st, they are basically telling Turkish people in those countries, either to keep Dutch/Austrian passport or Turkish passport. They have to make choices. Dual-citizenship won't be allowed anymore.

Wait, is this for real? I can't imagine Cuck Rutte doing such a thing. Link?