[This Is Trouble]

Decided it's worth logging this on the forum so I can show how successful I am or not in this endeavor.

Basically, I'm eligible for Italian citizenship. So rather than having to make border runs in and out of Poland or Hungary, I'm hoping that by the end of this year I have a second passport in hand. Assuming the EU doesn't shatter, I'll then have free reign to live just about anywhere in Europe I want with my second passport.

To give some backstory, I'm eligible because my great-great grandfather was born in Italy, and then immigrated over sometime in the early 1900s. My great grandfather was born BEFORE my great-great grandfather was naturalized as an American citizen.

If I was a descendant of any of the 8 siblings born AFTER my great-grandfather, I wouldn't be eligible for it.

While there are a lot of ways to acquire it, depending on which side of the family has the Italian heritage, this is what I'm personally falling into:

Your maternal great grandfather was born in your native country, your maternal great great grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, your mother was born after January 1st, 1948, and neither you nor your mother nor your maternal grandmother nor your maternal great grandfather ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship.

I now need to acquire roughly 20 documents; some from Italy, some from the US. Anything from the US has to be translated into Italian.

As of today, the first document (my great-great grandfather's birth certificate) shipped out. It should be showing up sometime this week.

I'm preparing to place an order for the rest of the documents. I had originally thought I could get this all done in a matter of a month or so, but it's definitely been quite a bit of research digging into my family tree and figuring out where the hell I came from.

In any case, if you've got some Italian descent, you might qualify. There are other countries, too. I know my friend got an Irish one pretty easily.

Any questions about what I know so far, I'll try to answer.

Cheers.

[Dantes]

This thread is of interest to me. I looked into this awhile back. My grandfather was born in Italy, but he became an American citizen before my mother was born (in the U.S.). From what I read, it seems that I am not eligible for Italian citizenship.

[The Beast1]

Great timing, I was researching this earlier today.

Keep us updated, from what i read on another story it took a guy 3 years to pull it altogether.

I'm tempted to pay a genealogist to gather this info all up for me. I wouldn't even know where to look.

[This Is Trouble]

@Beast -- maybe this will help you get started at least as far as what you'd need.

As far as where to start, at least pay for a month of Ancestry and give it a stab yourself before you pay someone a ton of money. I also have had some luck with https://familysearch.org/
​
Your maternal great great grandfather’s birth certificate from Italy, also known as anestratto dell’atto di nascita
Your maternal great great grandmother’s birth certificate
Your great great grandparents’ marriage certificate
Your maternal great great grandfather’s certificate of naturalization
Your maternal great grandfather’s birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your maternal great grandmother’s birth certificate
Your great grandparents’ marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your maternal grandmother’s birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your maternal grandfather’s birth certificate
Your grandparents’ marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your mother’s birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your father’s birth certificate
Your parents’ marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your marriage certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
Your spouse’s birth certificate, if applicable
Birth certificates for all your children under the age of eighteen, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
Any applicable divorce decrees/certificates (with apostille and translation)
Death certificates for anyone listed above (with apostille and translation, if for your mother, grandmother, great grandfather or great great grandfather)*

[This Is Trouble]

(02-11-2017 11:21 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

This thread is of interest to me. I looked into this awhile back. My grandfather was born in Italy, but he became an American citizen before my mother was born (in the U.S.). From what I read, it seems that I am not eligible for Italian citizenship.

Yes, I would agree with that based off what I know.

Question is...did he RENOUNCE his Italian citizenship?

[Dantes]

(02-11-2017 11:34 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:21 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

This thread is of interest to me. I looked into this awhile back. My grandfather was born in Italy, but he became an American citizen before my mother was born (in the U.S.). From what I read, it seems that I am not eligible for Italian citizenship.

Yes, I would agree with that based off what I know.

Question is...did he RENOUNCE his Italian citizenship?

I don't know. I am not sure about the rules at that time. He may have had to renounce his Italian citizenship in order to become an American citizen. Any idea as to how I can ascertain this information? My grandparents are both dead. I have my grandfathers birth certificate and other records but no document that indicates a Renouncement of his Italian citizenship.

[This Is Trouble]

(02-11-2017 11:38 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:34 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:21 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

This thread is of interest to me. I looked into this awhile back. My grandfather was born in Italy, but he became an American citizen before my mother was born (in the U.S.). From what I read, it seems that I am not eligible for Italian citizenship.

Yes, I would agree with that based off what I know.

Question is...did he RENOUNCE his Italian citizenship?

I don't know. I am not sure about the rules at that time. He may have had to renounce his Italian citizenship in order to become an American citizen. Any idea as to how I can ascertain this information? My grandparents are both dead. I have my grandfathers birth certificate and other records but no document that indicates a Renouncement of his Italian citizenship.

Yeah, I'm admittedly not sure how it worked at the time either, if you had to actually "give up" the Italian citizenship. Do you know what year he came to the States?

But yes, I think I know how you can find it.

Check out https://familysearch.org -- see if you can find his name and look for a "Certificate of Naturalization".

If you need to piece together when he came to the US (which would NOT be the same as renouncing), you can also check the Ellis Island entry; they have a database right on their homepage: http://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/

Shoot me a PM if you get stuck.

[The Beast1]

(02-11-2017 11:32 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  

@Beast -- maybe this will help you get started at least as far as what you'd need.

As far as where to start, at least pay for a month of Ancestry and give it a stab yourself before you pay someone a ton of money. I also have had some luck with https://familysearch.org/
​
Your maternal great great grandfather’s birth certificate from Italy, also known as anestratto dell’atto di nascita
Your maternal great great grandmother’s birth certificate
Your great great grandparents’ marriage certificate
Your maternal great great grandfather’s certificate of naturalization
Your maternal great grandfather’s birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your maternal great grandmother’s birth certificate
Your great grandparents’ marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your maternal grandmother’s birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your maternal grandfather’s birth certificate
Your grandparents’ marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your mother’s birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your father’s birth certificate
Your parents’ marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your marriage certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
Your spouse’s birth certificate, if applicable
Birth certificates for all your children under the age of eighteen, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
Any applicable divorce decrees/certificates (with apostille and translation)
Death certificates for anyone listed above (with apostille and translation, if for your mother, grandmother, great grandfather or great great grandfather)*

So basically an metric ton of legal documents from 2 generations of dead people!

Best of luck my friend. Here's hoping the EU is still around.

[The Breeze]

Good luck man....

I'll be pulling for you, and watching things progress!!

[Rossi]

Good luck overcoming Italian bureaucracy. We barely get Italian passport when we're born in Italy, I seriously don't know how you'll pull that one off.

[luckskywalker]

(02-11-2017 11:21 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

This thread is of interest to me. I looked into this awhile back. My grandfather was born in Italy, but he became an American citizen before my mother was born (in the U.S.). From what I read, it seems that I am not eligible for Italian citizenship.

That's correct. Try with your grandmother, is she an Italian?
Getting mine as well, all documents ready, even learned some Italian already for that.

And I think EU will still be together bros, just UK is leaving

Btw, be proud of have Italian ancestor, Italy is a great country with an amazing culture, so don't think just about the passport

[Dantes]

(02-11-2017 06:18 PM)luckskywalker Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:21 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

This thread is of interest to me. I looked into this awhile back. My grandfather was born in Italy, but he became an American citizen before my mother was born (in the U.S.). From what I read, it seems that I am not eligible for Italian citizenship.

That's correct. Try with your grandmother, is she an Italian?
Getting mine as well, all documents ready, even learned some Italian already for that.

And I think EU will still be together bros, just UK is leaving

Btw, be proud of have Italian ancestor, Italy is a great country with an amazing culture, so don't think just about the passport

Yes few countries have such an interesting history and impact on civilization.

My grandmother was born in the U.S., but her father was born Italy. So I also have 3 great grandparents, in addition to my grandfather who were born in Italy. Considering the negative birthrate in Italy, perhaps they will revise some of thee rules.

[luckskywalker]

(02-11-2017 06:35 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 06:18 PM)luckskywalker Wrote:  

(02-11-2017 11:21 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

This thread is of interest to me. I looked into this awhile back. My grandfather was born in Italy, but he became an American citizen before my mother was born (in the U.S.). From what I read, it seems that I am not eligible for Italian citizenship.

That's correct. Try with your grandmother, is she an Italian?
Getting mine as well, all documents ready, even learned some Italian already for that.

And I think EU will still be together bros, just UK is leaving

Btw, be proud of have Italian ancestor, Italy is a great country with an amazing culture, so don't think just about the passport

Yes few countries have such an interesting history and impact on civilization.

My grandmother was born in the U.S., but her father was born Italy. So I also have 3 great grandparents, in addition to my grandfather who were born in Italy. Considering the negative birthrate in Italy, perhaps they will revise some of thee rules.

You will only have the right for citizenship if none of them became American citizens before having a child bro. You should check that before anything else. Now, if they had a child, and only then became American citizens, then you still have the right for it.

[Sidney Crosby]

Seems like a lot of work you have to do when they have hundreds of invaders landing on the beaches everyday.

[Sherman]

I was thinking of doing the same thing a long time ago because my grandfather was from Italy. He became an American citizen but moved back to Italy before I was born.

[FretDancer]

I am also eligible for Italian passport because of my great grandfather.

I tried applying to the citizenship/passport in the Italian embassy in my country a few years ago. Apparently they never got to processing the documents because the person in charge who took the application and documents never bothered. After some years the embassy disbanded and is no longer in the country.

I was reconsidering giving it another try in a neighbor country, hoping that the European Union still holds for the coming years.

Anyways, good luck on this endeavor and keep us posted!

[Rossi]

(02-12-2017 11:07 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  

I tried applying to the citizenship/passport in the Italian embassy in my country a few years ago. Apparently they never got to processing the documents because the person in charge who took the application and documents never bothered. After some years the embassy disbanded and is no longer in the country.

Welcome to Italia

Italian bureaucracy is impossible to overcome. Getting simple driving license takes like a month in here. I was shocked when Lithuanian girl got her license next to me in Vilnius under 15 minutes.

So, I wish good luck to all people who are trying to get an Italian passport especially when you never lived in Italy.

It's only possible for football players coming from Brazil or Argentina but they all have hook-up in government.

[Shimmy]

I did some research and it looks like it has different levels of difficulty depending on which consulate you go to. If you are a US citizen you have to go to the consulate in your district. From the sounds it it's just a matter of getting a heap of hard to track down paperwork and making sure you dot your eyes and cross your t's. After that you have to get most of them translated as well. If you can't find the paperwork you can order it from certain sites for $60-70 per document. Between that and translating it can be pretty pricey but will be worth it.

[This Is Trouble]

(02-12-2017 01:50 PM)Shimmy Wrote:  

I did some research and it looks like it has different levels of difficulty depending on which consulate you go to. If you are a US citizen you have to go to the consulate in your district. From the sounds it it's just a matter of getting a heap of hard to track down paperwork and making sure you dot your eyes and cross your t's. After that you have to get most of them translated as well. If you can't find the paperwork you can order it from certain sites for $60-70 per document. Between that and translating it can be pretty pricey but will be worth it.

Yes, I think all in all it's gonna cost me $1,500.

Well worth it indeed.

[The Breeze]

(02-11-2017 08:50 PM)Sidney Crosby Wrote:  

Seems like a lot of work you have to do when they have hundreds of invaders landing on the beaches everyday.

I think you are missing the point...

Having an Italian residency and passport, and actually living there,
are two entirely different animals.

[luckskywalker]

(02-12-2017 04:23 PM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  

(02-12-2017 01:50 PM)Shimmy Wrote:  

I did some research and it looks like it has different levels of difficulty depending on which consulate you go to. If you are a US citizen you have to go to the consulate in your district. From the sounds it it's just a matter of getting a heap of hard to track down paperwork and making sure you dot your eyes and cross your t's. After that you have to get most of them translated as well. If you can't find the paperwork you can order it from certain sites for $60-70 per document. Between that and translating it can be pretty pricey but will be worth it.

Yes, I think all in all it's gonna cost me $1,500.

Well worth it indeed.

That's not expansive at all, and that's because things work in US. Here in Brazil there is a queue of 10 years to apply for citizenship lol. The shorter way is going to Italy directly, which makes things expansive.

[This Is Trouble]

Just a heads up that my first document (great-great-grandpa's birth cert) arrived today by mail.

Total processing time was 3 months and 1 week (November 8th) from the date of first submission. The entire holdup was with the records office in Italy. It's in Sicily so probably even slower than the mainland.

Shipping time to me once they'd gotten it and I'd confirmed payment was under a week.

[Shimmy]

(02-16-2017 03:57 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  

Just a heads up that my first document (great-great-grandpa's birth cert) arrived today by mail.

Total processing time was 3 months and 1 week (November 8th) from the date of first submission. The entire holdup was with the records office in Italy. It's in Sicily so probably even slower than the mainland.

Shipping time to me once they'd gotten it and I'd confirmed payment was under a week.

Where did you get it from? What are you basing your list of documents needed off? I am in the same boat as you g-g-grandpa and I have a list from online research but would be good to see what you came up with as well.

[Nascimento]

Nice man. Having a second passport is huge. Definitely keep us posted.

I have to look into it to see if I'm also eligible. Some of my cousins have successfully gotten it, but since it depends on birth dates of descendants as well, I think it might be different for me.

[mpr]

Currently going though the same process. First I dug up my great-grand fathers naturalization paperwork to make sure that I was eligible. Now I'm getting the paperwork for everyone from the bottom up because that seems to be the most efficient way. The hardest part will be finding my great-grandfathers birth certificate in Italy. But I know the city he was born in so it should be doable.

Here are some resources for everyone that I've found useful.

1.) An overview of JS Italian citizenship transmission.

2.) A web app that asks you questions to more easily find out if you're eligible for Italian JS (bloodright) citizenship.

3.) An Italian JS forum with tons of info.

4.) A Dual US-Italian Citizenship facebook group. It's the fastest way to get Italian JS questions answered by knowledgeable people.

Pro-tip: You can usually find your ancestors US naturalization papers using ancestry.com assuming that he wasn't a recent arrival. The site gives you a free trial that lasts a couple of weeks if you enter in your credit card info. More then enough time to find the necessary paperwork. They didn't give me a hard time canceling my membership either; so I didn't ever get charged.

Expect to wait 1-3 years for an appointment to submit your paperwork at most Italian embassies. After everything is submitted they have up to 3 years to process your application. Those are the wait times to get an appointment at the most popular Italian embassies in the United States. You may luck out and grab an appointment that someone else cancels on. Or be lucky because you're under the jurisdiction of an embassy that isn't busy. The wait time for an appointment, and application approval at the embassy in Detroit is measured in months or weeks. While the wait times for Italian embassies in New York or Miami are measured in years. There are many more people of Italian descent on the East coast then in the midwest.