[S3K2]

Kaotic - are you open to drugs at all? Or trying to stay 100% natty? I noticed you were having sleep issues, ipamorelin + mod grf-1 would most def. help with any sleep issues. I don't think your no where near ready for gear but some peptides (the ones I mentioned) will def. help you reach your goals in the long term. Both sleep and physique. I've been taking peps for 2 years now, so speaking from experience.

[kaotic]

(01-30-2017 10:57 AM)Steelex Wrote:  

Upping the weight after each set is not the best way to go. If you were able to increase the weight each set, it means you didn't get very close to failure on that set, and therefore didn't achieve as much damage in that set as possible.

You want to up the weight when all your sets are in the high end of the rep range. So let's say the rep range was 3 sets of 11-15, and you got 15-12-8. You don't move up. But let's say you got 15-15-14, you move up weight the next workout because obviously the first two sets you aced and you can stand to add some more weight on the bar.

You gotta use a little common sense here, but the question in your mind should be "Will it benefit me more to master the weight I'm at, or go up in weight so I can get one step closer to my ultimate goal (being a goddamn human fork lift)".

Yeah makes sense, I reset the weights I'd probably hit on my log, I'll just start somewhere comfortable and see how far my reps go. I'll follow that system if I ace the first 2 sets and up it.

(01-30-2017 11:07 AM)Steelex Wrote:  

I recommend doing the rack chins with grip straps. I know everyone says "well then you're not building your grip". They have a point. However, the point of the rack chin is to mentally focus on the contraction of the lats, and not be thinking about your grip at all.

The rack chins with the Kroc rows do a lot to put width and thickness on the lats. I didn't have thick lats till I was getting 30+ reps with a 120lb DB. Now I use big zip ties to attach another dumbell to the 120 since that's as high as my gym has them

I forgot to grab wrist wraps, I'll have to get those.

Jesus 120 + ? That's YUGE !

(01-30-2017 02:52 PM)S3K2 Wrote:  

Kaotic - are you open to drugs at all? Or trying to stay 100% natty? I noticed you were having sleep issues, ipamorelin + mod grf-1 would most def. help with any sleep issues. I don't think your no where near ready for gear but some peptides (the ones I mentioned) will def. help you reach your goals in the long term. Both sleep and physique. I've been taking peps for 2 years now, so speaking from experience.

I'm staying natty for now.

It's not that I have issues sleeping, it's that I just dick around at home after the gym OR I'm on a date, with a plate, or with my main girl.

Basically I need to have more me time to take a break and sleep.

[kaotic]

Finished Day A

Overhead dumbbell press 2 sets 8-13 reps (50 LB Dumbbells, maxed on reps, up weight)
Wide grip rack chins (with straps) 3 sets 8-13 reps (Body weight, need straps, did feel more isolated, might add 10LB's weight)
Dumbbell bench press 3 sets 11-15 reps (50 LB Dumbbells, maxed on reps, up weight)
Preacher curls 2 sets 5-10 reps (45 LB barbell, maxed on reps, up weight)
Lateral raises 3 sets 11-15 reps (15 LB Dumbbells, maxed on reps, up weight)
Kroc dumbell rows 2 sets 25-40 reps (30 LB Dumbbells, maxed on reps, up weight)

I didn't really warm up and just hopped into the sets, I definitely felt fatigue in the last few reps of the last sets.

The wide grip rack chin was pretty cool actually, it felt a lot more isolated, Steelex you're right about the straps will help you focus more on your back.

The Croc rows I did have some issues with, I noticed my stance made my lower back a little tight, I definitely was gassed after doing what surmounted to 40 reps per each Lat which totaled 160 reps.

Am I supposed to be doing 20 for reach lat for a total of 40 per set ?

The good news is I finished my workout in 50 minutes, which was crazy.

[Steelex]

The Kroc rows is two sets. So that's two sets for each side. That's why they're at the end of the workout. Go watch the video of Matt Kroc doing them. You use a little bit of body movement in the exercise, and then get a nice deep stretch at the bottom of it.

160 reps would be correct, if you're on the high end of the range. There is a huge benefit to your forearms, back and biceps. By the time you're getting 80 lbs for 40 reps you will notice your back has a thicker look, and your grip will be insane.

Try jumping up to 50 lbs for the Kroc rows. That should have you at the near bottom of the rep range on the last set.

I want you to try something. Make a serving of cream of rice, and mix it with two tablespoons of peanut butter and half a scoop of whey. Eat this like 60 mins prior to your workout. You'll have plenty of energy throughout your lifts.

If you want to recover a bit faster, sip a shake with some dextrose and whey isolate during your workout. If you want to take it a step further, use hydrolyzed casein and branched cyclic dextrins intra workout. It's more expensive but will do a great job in aiding your recovery.

The faster you repeat and go heavier, the faster you grow. Shorten the time between growth cycles. You're only growing for like 3 days after the workout.

[redbeard]

Shoutout to Steelix!

I avoided rack pulls because they would wreck my low back. I was using regular width grip and low reps. I switched to wide grip and did 3x12 today....jeeesh! All aboard the gains train.

[kaotic]

Finished B day (legs, core)

I'll be straight up honest, it was rough, my lower back was NOT happy (details after stats)

-Rack pull deadlifts with a shrug (pull the bar up over your junk and hold it for 5 seconds at the top) 3 sets 5-8 reps (185 completed all 3 sets of 8)

I REALLY need to work on my form, I felt some activation of my glutes but not much of hamstrings.

The rails on the squat rack were at the lowest possible, basically middle of my knees. Had my back straight, and pulled right up and back, I was struggling to move from pulling the bar up to do shrugs (Maybe I need to go to lighter weight and work on form)

My lower back got pretty tight after that.


-Bb squats 2 sets 6-10 reps, 1 set 18-20 reps using 60% of what you used on your first two sets. (Did 2 sets of 185 then did 135 for the 3rd set)


Legs felt a little bit tired and my back still go pretty tight, but was able to manage the set.

I ended up doing 3 sets of leg extensions and hamstring curls to make up for the weak showing.

-3 sets of planks held for 1-2 minutes. (Got to a minute for all 3 sets, this wiped me pretty good, I remember why I hated these)


What about lower back stretches ? Can anyone point me in the right direction ?

[Balkan]

I've never had lower back issues but I do prophylactically stretch/strengthen it whenever I do heavy lower body compounds. Here are my favorite 3.

1) Hanging out at bottom rep range of hyperextension. I gyrate around and search for kinks similar to when foam-rolling. Do some bodyweight reps with very slow negatives. Play around with the motion until you find your soft spots.
2) Lie on your back and bring your legs over your head so your toes touch the ground. Ideally, your knees touch the ground too. It looks like you're giving yourself a bj.
3) Reverse hyper on yoga ball. Click here for picture.

Hopefully some other guys will drop in with their go to stretches/rehab/prehab exercises. If any of the above was confusing, let me know and I can clarify.

Edit: A point I was trying to make but couldn't figure out how to word was that some of the best stretches are not static stretches but very conscious, often slow, movements through actual exercises that target that bodypart.

[Steelex]

Kaotic,

As far as your low back pain goes, that's difficult. Do you sit a lot every day? That can cause a tightening of the hip flexors, which causes a pull of the lower back known as anterior pelvic tilt.

Check this link... It's a great stretch to relieve anterior tilt pain.

https://youtu.be/rAKeRrXjzQI

Also, I recommend a lifting belt. Learn to use it properly.

Don't add the leg extensions or ham curls. That's just cutting into your recovery time. The key is to focus on adding weight to the squat.

When you're squatting 405 for 20 your legs will be fucking big. Get there as soon as possible. Avoid the mentality of throwing more exercises into the mix, unless you really think the squats are not stimulating your legs.

[kaotic]

(02-01-2017 03:33 AM)Steelex Wrote:  

Kaotic,

As far as your low back pain goes, that's difficult. Do you sit a lot every day? That can cause a tightening of the hip flexors, which causes a pull of the lower back known as anterior pelvic tilt.

Check this link... It's a great stretch to relieve anterior tilt pain.

https://youtu.be/rAKeRrXjzQI

Also, I recommend a lifting belt. Learn to use it properly.

Don't add the leg extensions or ham curls. That's just cutting into your recovery time. The key is to focus on adding weight to the squat.

When you're squatting 405 for 20 your legs will be fucking big. Get there as soon as possible. Avoid the mentality of throwing more exercises into the mix, unless you really think the squats are not stimulating your legs.

Yeah I sit sit in a chair most of the day unfortunately. Not to mention traffic in the AM.

I woke up this morning to some lower back pain for sure, it REALLY bugs me I'd say 5/10 on the pain scale. I notice most the pain is one left lower side of where my back and hip come together.

If I moved in my seat I had some lower back pain. I'll do those stretches if I can, I have a quarter size foam roller in my car.

I found some in chair stretches I can do also, but this really fucking bugs man - I'm also afraid to cause more pain further.

I'm gonna focus on stretching and roll out before todays workout.

[Steelex]

If you're spending 6+ hours a day seated, you likely have anterior pelvic tilt caused by tight hip flexors. Check out the YouTube Link I posted earlier it has helped me a lot.

If you have access to a massage table and a partner, the Thompson stretch can bring you some almost instantaneous relief. Do a YouTube search for it.

[Steelex]

You're working out again today? How long since your first workout?

[redbeard]

@Steelix - why rack pulls on leg day? Why not stiff legs if the target is hams/glutes?

[Steelex]

I put the rack pulls on leg day (if you wanna call it that... It's just 3 sets of squats), to hit the forearms, traps, rhomboids, spinal erectors, and to a lesser extent glutes and hams. Since there is no trapezius or grip/forearm work on the first day, the rack pulls hit those muscles and fill in the gaps, so to speak. There is a fair amount of work on the upper body day already, and I feel like adding another exercise would be counter productive.

I want to narrow in on Kaotics back pain issue and get it resolved. If he's always in pain, he will always be forced to compromise in his routine.

[Steelex]

Kaotic,

Try this stretch too. The Thomas stretch.

https://youtu.be/6mjBaLVlQWw

[kavi]

Not to be all "I told you so" but just want to-iterate a few points I made earlier in light of the above

(01-27-2017 10:43 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Also, you need strong spinal erector muscles for good squats. I am not sure it makes sense to have isolated spinal erectors with rack pulls and then go into squats. Those could be some uncomfortable squats.

You are doing heavy rack-pulls as your rep range is quit low. I would not advise this level of intensity for anyone with back issues. This will cause a lot of tightness in the back.

Now you have a tight back and you are going into heavy squats. Squats utilize the back muscles throughout the exercise and if you had a tight back going into the exercise I am sure you would have felt it tighten up more during the exercise. I would say this is a good way to get injured and will not make you stronger. Trying to push through this pain is not advised.

My personal experience is that is very hard to do squats after working the lower back. My squats would be quite awkward the day after a good deadlift workout hence I normally do deads the day after squatting, which doesn't have the same problems.

In addition to the above, to a beginner (with back issues) I would advise to do a lighter weight with higher reps on lower back exercises with a good rest period before putting pressure on the lower back with squats etc. The back can be strengthened with deadlifst/rack pulls but you should go for a higher rep range and lighter workouts, and you should wait until any existing pain is gone.

(01-27-2017 10:43 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Yeah thats cool. Personally I would focus on less intense deadlifting ( more reps less weight) but I that is just a personal preferance.

[redbeard]

What do y'all do for low back? It doesn't hurt but I need to strengthen mine too. I've added a few sets of hyperextensions.

[kavi]

Deadlifts for Spinal Erectors. Nothing better for good posture and a strong back.

[kaotic]

Thanks guys I'll take that all into consideration.

@steelex I did day A Monday, Day B Tuesday, I was going to Day A today. So it would 3 days today.

I'll try those stretches out, need to invest in a yoga matt for stretching at work.

I'm buying wrist wraps and leg bands today as well.

[Steelex]

Kaotic,

If you think you can improve since the last A day, then proceed.

But you've only had 48 hours since the last A-day workout... That's two days in my book. Meaning probably about 16 hours of sleep.

If you can swing it, swing it. But I would wait till Thursday. Your call.

[kaotic]

I just did this stretch via my chair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6D483GYqAk

Released tension instantly and my back feels alot more relaxed, I usually go solo to the gym so The Thomas stretch will be tough unless I can find a buddy.

(02-01-2017 02:28 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

Kaotic,

If you think you can improve since the last A day, then proceed.

But you've only had 48 hours since the last A-day workout... That's two days in my book. Meaning probably about 16 hours of sleep.

If you can swing it, swing it. But I would wait till Thursday. Your call.

I feel rested enough that I can swing Day A today and up the weight.

I'm curious to what you think a schedule with recovery should look like ?

2 Days on 1 day rest ? or 3 days on 2 days rest ? What would be ideal for a beginner on the plan?

[SegaSaturn1994]

(01-30-2017 04:42 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(01-30-2017 10:57 AM)Steelex Wrote:  

Upping the weight after each set is not the best way to go. If you were able to increase the weight each set, it means you didn't get very close to failure on that set, and therefore didn't achieve as much damage in that set as possible.

You want to up the weight when all your sets are in the high end of the rep range. So let's say the rep range was 3 sets of 11-15, and you got 15-12-8. You don't move up. But let's say you got 15-15-14, you move up weight the next workout because obviously the first two sets you aced and you can stand to add some more weight on the bar.

You gotta use a little common sense here, but the question in your mind should be "Will it benefit me more to master the weight I'm at, or go up in weight so I can get one step closer to my ultimate goal (being a goddamn human fork lift)".

Yeah makes sense, I reset the weights I'd probably hit on my log, I'll just start somewhere comfortable and see how far my reps go. I'll follow that system if I ace the first 2 sets and up it.

(01-30-2017 11:07 AM)Steelex Wrote:  

I recommend doing the rack chins with grip straps. I know everyone says "well then you're not building your grip". They have a point. However, the point of the rack chin is to mentally focus on the contraction of the lats, and not be thinking about your grip at all.

The rack chins with the Kroc rows do a lot to put width and thickness on the lats. I didn't have thick lats till I was getting 30+ reps with a 120lb DB. Now I use big zip ties to attach another dumbell to the 120 since that's as high as my gym has them

I forgot to grab wrist wraps, I'll have to get those.

Jesus 120 + ? That's YUGE !

(01-30-2017 02:52 PM)S3K2 Wrote:  

Kaotic - are you open to drugs at all? Or trying to stay 100% natty? I noticed you were having sleep issues, ipamorelin + mod grf-1 would most def. help with any sleep issues. I don't think your no where near ready for gear but some peptides (the ones I mentioned) will def. help you reach your goals in the long term. Both sleep and physique. I've been taking peps for 2 years now, so speaking from experience.

I'm staying natty for now.

It's not that I have issues sleeping, it's that I just dick around at home after the gym OR I'm on a date, with a plate, or with my main girl.

Basically I need to have more me time to take a break and sleep.

120 is huge but for the vast majority of people it requires tons of body english. That Kroc guy himself threw weights around in a sloppy manner if I remember correctly. This approach is not inherently wrong; it's just that you could get away with far less weight using strict form and would be putting less pressure on the intervertebral discs using lighter weights.

[Steelex]

Kaotic,

It's totally dependant on your recovery ability and ability to keep crushing the log book. Highly personal and up to you. Be cognizant of it and adjust it based on feel.

Here is how my shit would typically look...

Day 1. A day
Day 2. Nap instead of lift
Day 3. B day
Day 4. Go see chiropractor or do some active recovery shit. Maybe a 3 mile walk with my kid.
Day 5. A day
Day 6. Nap
Day 7. B day.
Day 8. Nap
Repeat

This isn't set in stone my friend. If I feel like going to the gym and taking satan on tren for a walk, I will. But that's generally how my training goes.

[Steelex]

Sega Saturn,

Most people would need to use a shit ton of body English to move 120, that's correct. That's the weight I personally use, but once upon a time it was just a 40lb dumbell. You build up.

The body english is OK in moderate amounts, it's up to the user to decide how much is too fucking much.

But you ain't rowing the 120s without your back going Cobra style. Not gd happening.

PS. Kroc may have put some extra mojo into his DB rows, but he was also a world record holding powerlifter, and had a stupidly well developed back.

[greekgod]

This is a great thread.

Looks like some knowledgable guys really dialed in the lifting routine so I'll leave that alone.

If you want to regulate sleep, I've found 50 MG of Magnesium Citrate knocks me out about 60-90 minutes afterwards and provides a great sleep.

For burning belly fat, the two things I've found to be the best over the years are 1. the Urge. Do 500 M sprints with 1 minute rests. That shit will get your ab's strong and firing. 2. Yoga for weight loss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Wt9CFb-4s

Honorary mention: Sean Vigue Fitness has good pilates for dudes (5-10 minutes) that have always kicked my ass.

Diet: nobody seemed to have touched upon that. Are you looking to make any changes?

[tapthatass]

@kaotic

It's perfect. I don't see any flaws in your workout and nutrition. Read the responses on the first page and I would like to add that can avoid overtraining if you do it right. It's slightly complicated though.

You mentioned that your fitness goals is to get jacked and that you're a hard gainer.

->I think you can focus on 1:2-> strength :hypertrophy workout weeks. Start with strength to get the energy flowing in your muscles and then two weeks of hypertrophy to maximize your potential.

->There are three parts in a workout 1) Intensity 2) frequency and 3) volume. You have to choose two of them and downplay the third. Since you're working out almost everyday (high freq) so you should either lower your intensity or volume.

My proposal:
I would be happy if you lower your intensity because i) your goal is to get jacked (not ripped or shredded.) ii) you mentioned that you have belly fat (so high volume always helps). On the other hand, you always get your intensity during the strength week.

If you wanna get ripped or shredded then reverse the ratio (ie., 2:1= strength :hypertrophy.)

A final point: Get your test levels checked..just in case.