[mycleverid]

This didn't seem to garner much attention elsewhere, so I'll post it here.

OK, I went to an expat bar in Bastille. Early going was terrible but as the night went on things just went crazy. A little too crazy in fact, because I found ways to cockblock myself being too alpha and too beta! FUCKFUCKFUCK.

Let's take the two sets that were highly noteworthy.

Set one was three Brazilian girls out with their brother. i assume this was some dumbass Latino parent thing where they believed that the presence of their brother would protect them from men of ill repute. Fat lot of good that did -- he practically winged me toward his sisters!!

Anyhoo, as the night went on, on got too drunk, to put it politely. It's the first time I haven't had to worry about wrecking my car in years,and frankly i went waaaaay overboard.

With the Brazilian girls, I'm almost 100% certain I needed to be more alpha. Of course, being from a redneck part of the country, it's hard for me, culturally, to push up on a girl while her brother is standing there. That's some old social programming to overcome, because in my world pushing up on a guy's sisterin front of him can end in a fistfight or gun play.

As I got super crazy, this French chick who looks like a 70s punk rock groupie, started pushing up hard while I was still working the Brazilian girls. And I started pulling in hard. And she was going nuts for the whole "I love America, are you from New York." Even after I told her where I was from, she wouldn't lay off it. So, I told her I lived close to new York, becuase that was obviously the fantasy she wanted and fuck it for once I got to be the fantasy for the girl.

In the midst of all this groping and grinding she asks me if I want to try her drink. Minding you I'm in full alpha drunk mode at this point. So, I swigged the entire thing. She didn't really get pissed, but she asked several times thar I replace her drink. I told her she shouldn't have offered. After several tries -- because, again, she was really locked in on this fantasy of fucking a guy from New York -- she eventually realized I was being an irredeemable bully and went back to hang out with her guy friends from their Ramones tribute band poster.

As I sit her vaguely sober, I realized rather abruptly that I was too alpha. I went from playful aggression to downright bully. Worse, I waved off almost five minutes of her giving me openings to make it right, simply because I was super drunk and so involved in being drunkenly alpha that I whiffed on all the signs.

Here's my big question:

With these Parisian girls, I have some fucked up form of mad game. I mean, pure, natural, not even fucking trying game. I was walking around Paris in my fucking jeans and Carhardts, dripping in sweat from walking five hundred fucking miles with all the clothes (I'm a big guy, a 22 inch neck, 54 chest, 42 inch waist -- I am still not convinced anywhere in Paris has clothes for me), high-end laptop (expensive i7 for analytics that I run -- it weighs a metric fuckton) an my camera equipment (because it's Paris, motherfucker, and I will tourist the shit out of this place). And every woman in Paris was eyeing me.

Am I some weird sort of exotic in Paris? I mean, I'm a 260-ish pound white guy with an NFL build. Here in the states I constantly get asked, when I'm in full suit, if I'm a bouncer, the owner, if I;m mobbed up, etc.

A Europeanguy I met tonight contributed to a theory I'm forming -- he says it's pure bad boy biker lust. That because I am big, and I have the really red redneck skincolor, and the long blond hair, and the facial hair, that no amount of nice clothes covers up the fantasy of mounting a big, rugged, violent American guy. I think I have uncovered the white equivalent of gangsta game.

(Bonus social game win -- I have a place to stay in Prague thanks to the bikers he knows there!!!)

I had been working from the theory that I'm simply the physically biggest dude in Paris. In two, going on three, days, I can count on one hand the number of guys I've seen who could offer me a fair fight in single combat. I think because everyone in Paris is so goddamned skinny, there's some serious DHV to be had for those who have a protein surplus and some weights to work.

Whatever it is, it weirded me out, because I've been reading nothing but bad reviews about Paris. That the women are cold, they don'tengage. That you have to social game them to death and to approach them indirect.

But, here's what also gets me -- here's where I need feedback. In the US the aggressive "I drink your milkshake" trickworks llike gang busters. First off, there's some sort of DHV from the aggressive swig of alcohol. Second, a lot of American women want to be shoved to the ground and have their hair pulled by a big scary man. I knew a woman a couple years ago, pre-game, who I broke up with because she wanted me to break her skin open beating her. I mean, on some levels, American feminism has left American females downright fucking deranged.

It's clear that while the French girl liked the big, scary American, she didn't enjoy the consequences of the aggression. And that bothers the fuck out of me, because all this natural game I have here might go to no use if I can't dial it back at the moment it becomes too much for the French girls.

Also, all the stupid game materials have beaten it into my head that you never ever buy a girl a drink. That it's beta. That it's a shit test. That girls try to sucker you into buying drinks so they can cruise for free.

All I had to do was replace her fucking drink and I'd be filing a field report about clumsy drunken sex with a punked out French girl!!!

FUCKFUCKFUCK.

Like I said, not alpha enough with Brazilian girls. Admittedly, the French girl really jumped in hard when she saw the escalation begin. So, I can't judge that interaction in isolation. Then I was way too alpha and way to drunk and stupid and inflexible with the French girl. I mean, that girl so wanted to fuck me she was basically repeating the entire diagram over and over so she could do it.

One more issues with the French girls -- WTF is with them bringing a male friend out to dance with, even though they're not fucking him?! The 70s punk girl I totally missed in the first survey of the bar because I thought she was fucking married to her Johnnie Rotten clone of a friend.

Could someone please explain to the French girls if they're going to go to an expat bar, they need to play by expat rules. That means leave the fucking sausage at home.

I assume this is one of those weird beta male weak provider shit tricks that apparently all non-American girls pull. I remember reading something about Brazilian girls doing this. I completely missed that French girls do it.

Anyhoo . . . brutal acts of self-cockblocking nothwithstanding, Paris fucking rocks!!!!!!!! Any city still serving booze with a side of foreigner lust at 5am is a winner in my book.

[Aliblahba]

First off I wanna say congrats for achieving the location independent lifestyle. A great post too. l laughed.

First off, don't get drunk again. I'm not dogging you on this. I spend months at a time in warzones, not drinking. I always allot the night back to civilization for getting good and liquored up. Now that's it outta your system , stay more sober and concentrate on getting laid.

Secondly, the French guy is probably right. You may very well have found your fishbowl, and be the first guy on the forum to do so in Paris. Play the alpha card, but don't go overboard. Use the bad boy image to no end. If a girls wants you to be from NYC, then so be it. Remember, pussy over pride. Spend some time studying how the locals interact in the bar. It took me a week in the U.K. to fully adjust my game. It's not hard, but is different from what your used to in the U.S.

Thirdly, clothes. Can't help you here. With your size you may never find anything that fits there. Everything I tried on was ridiculously slim fit.

Anyway, good luck bro, and keep us posted on your progress. Hope this helps.

P.S. Drop the backpack. Your laptop will be safe in the hostel lockers.

[Lumiere]

Nice post. I laughed.

I used to live in Paris so - any questions - let me know. I picked up my French flag in the first 2 or 3 days with a local girl who did not even speak English and I did not even speak French at the time (still dont know how I pulled that off).

As for your specific question, I have absolutely no fucking clue what the aggressive "I drink your milkshake" thing even means. I am not American.

As for the way to play to your advantage (your size) in Paris. You need to come across as totally fucking alpha but with a thin veneer of social politeness barely containing it.

In other words be polite at first and then tell them outright things like 'you know if we had sex I would be kind of scared I would break you. You are so tiny' and smile.

French dudes are direct (or at least the ones with balls are) so women will not be shocked if your talk gets sexual.

Bon chance and give us a report update.

[Mystik]

Yo, great post... Couple of questions.

1. This is August, so are you sure that the girls who are eye fucking you are French? There is saying that if you want to see Paris without the French then go to the city in August.

2. Are these girls eye fucking you during the day or at night? There is HUGE HUGE difference between Parisian night game and day game.

That stuff about Social Game blah blah etc is all BS. There is no social game, if a French girl wants to fuck you then she will approach you. If you speak French then you are done. In my experience they are always bitchy to begin with but mellow down later on.

Also, try to get the fuck out of Bastille, that is one of the most touristy areas in Paris and it only has bars where the only option is to well get drunk.

Places near Arc de Triomfe. Le Baron was a great club back in 2005. I don't know if its still good. Best looking girls in Paris. Generally bars in that area are high end and good.

Sorry about the clothes, I don't think you will find any that will fit. As your rightly mentioned French guys are skinny and on top of that the slim fit look is what the Europeans like. You best bet will be to try a clothing store like Springfield.

[Roosh]

Re: eyeing you during the day.

Sometimes it means nothing. I got eyed a ton in Argentina, but I couldn't translate that eye contact into bangs. It's a good sign generally, but I wouldn't read too much into it. If a girl gives you eye contact then approach her, but using how much eye contact you get as a way judge to how easy the women are or how you should game them doesn't work in practice.

I do find that eye contact during the day is especially meaningless. At night it's a better indicator.

[Pilgrim37]

Head South for a week..Paris in Auguast is good for sightseeing cause it's less busy,but most of the French head to the beach or country.
Hit the beach towns,that's where most of the top totty will be till September.
Try Nice ,St Tropez Cannes..South West Coast Biarritz. Get the TGV down there!
Then you'll really be able to asess French girls' assets

[mycleverid]

OK, let's break the response into usable pieces . . .

Heading south . . . I was told the French start heading back to the cities in the middle of August. Also, to be honest, for me this trip was more a personal announcement of my arrival financially. I have to collect my trophies for the folks back home, since there will definitely be some photo game to played from all this.

This trip is all about seeing the big international cities. Paris, Prague, Barcelona and maybe Florence. Of course, there is some place between Florence and Barcelona . . .

Day game . . . I think I'm pretty good at spotting French vs foreign. Truth is, all you have to is look at their calves (presuming the foreign girl is even wearing shorts or a skirt). Honestly, I don't deliberately day game much. I've never felt day game. Never tried it much.

The one thing I don't get is at 20-30 feet, it's all eyes locked right in. Decidedly unsubtle. But, once you close to 8-10 feet, they shut down completely. It's almost the reverse of how American women eye me (they like to sneak a peek at the last second).

There's a very submissive quality about the French in general. Except for a few West African guys, every guy on the street avoids eye contact with me. French guys will go into submissive, avoidant mode at 30 feet! The French seem to have a very nice view of their feet.

Night game eye making . . . OK, the French girls at night eye me, but they eye me like a creepy American guy eyes a girl from afar. You know, the sneak a peek, look away, peak again, repeat. They're not subtle, but they seem to think they're being playful or something.

American girls, at night, lock the fuck in on me hard. With an american girl, they basically convey openness, they even sort of position themselves so that there's an open seat for me. I get the occassional 5 who actually will pat the seat and look at me!! (I guess if you're gonna fuck above your score,you gotta make it easy for the guy.)

With the french girls,it's more "let's play this game". They never lock in until you're in full grope mode.

The bad boy thing . . . this is the one case where American women and French women are very consistent toward me. In the US, clean cut office types dig the hell out of me. When it comes to party girls, I only have game with the alpha females of the group and only under very particular circumstances.

That's actually one of the surprises in all this Paris stuff for me. Punked out girls -- who I love, BTW -- in the US are a hard nut for me to crack. They seem to very suspicious of my motives in approach. I think they see me as big biker type who's just in it for a ride. (Which is too bad, because if a girl is tatted up and sporting a dyed mohawk, I'm in for the long run if she wants it.)

Quote:

As for your specific question, I have absolutely no fucking clue what the aggressive "I drink your milkshake" thing even means. I am not American.

The phrase "I drink your milkshake" is from the movie "There Will Be Blood". When Daniel day Lewis is explaining the art of fucking people in business to his adversary, he tells "I drink your milkshake" to encapsulate the idea that he's knowingly stealing from him and that he doesn't have any compunction about doing so.

As for sexual directness . . . I don't do dirty talk when I game. I talk whatever we're talking and I escalate physically. Like with the french girl I was talking about. I was giving her ass a good going over (goddamn are French women soft to the touch!!!) while we discussed exactly how important it was that I be from NYC.

Dirty talk just feels clumsy to me. Getting physical has always felt right to me. Plus, the nice with physical escalation is that if you're gonna flame out, at least it happens fast. Also, sometimes I'll double dip phsyicality -- I'll come back to a girl a few hours later and try her again if she rejected me. Works about 50% of the time. what I do is if a woman faults on a big physical move (ass grab, fingering, neck sucking, hair pulling), I'll just immediately walk off without even saying anything to her. A lot of chicks seem to enjoy a man who can walk away. They end up more receptive when you come back and give them a second chance.

While I have a live wire here . . .

How the fuck do I use the metro system? I bought a card at CDG, but it only seems to work on the RER lines. I had even explicitly asked that midget fuck at the counter if the card would get me on the mtro lines. Sawed-off little baguette-eating fuck...

(Charles de Gaulle airport sucks, BTW, to anyone new here. The airport only gives you 15 minutes free wireless. Do you have any idea the kind of shock that is coming from a city like Pittsburgh where the airport is unlimited wireless and even the city proper gives you two hours a day free?!)

I've been walking myself to death in this city. And fuck does it sprawl forever in every direction. The upside,I'm losing weight like a motherfucker. I'm told I will eat this all back in Prague (if you know Pittsburghers, Prague food is like porn to us).

Anyhoo . . . this is the most geeked I've ever been to go gaming. Vive la France!

[mycleverid]

One additional question.

French women seem to be pretty loose about pushing up on one guy and moving along if he doesn't escalate. They come to the bar with guys and they don't always leave with the same guys.

Am I wrong in assuming that if a french girl is at a bar at all, she's entirely fair game?

Becuase in the US, if a girl comes to the bar with a guy, that's it. It's over. She's officially announcing she is not open for offers. If you make your move there, you do so at your own physical risk.

Also, in the US, if a girl locks in on a guy, she's locked in. And often she's lost puppyish even after the guy rejects her.

In France, girls never really seem to lock in on a guy until things have arrived at real physical escalation.

Also, the French girls seem to be very willing to try to cut in on a guy their friend is talking to -- a major breach in the US that can, again, end in a fist fight. I watched a pair of lithe, young french blondes basically go merry-go-round cutting each other out trying to sex up this unfuckably hideous foreigner last night. It was downright comedic, becuase they just kept rotating in every time the other girl would step back, get a drink, turn and look somewhere else, etc.

And there'sa last question -- what is with some of the French 5s, 6s and 7s gaming hard on unfuckably hideous guys with no game?

In the US, if a chick did this, it would require that she commit ritual suicide in the morning. No American woman is gonna game a 3 or 4. Even if she's a 5, she'll prefer to game a stronger male with just full-on "I fuck on the first date" sluttiness.

[mycleverid]

Next question:

Where is there a decent hip hip club in Paris? I can't believe how much undanceable shit these French folks will dance to anyhow. Jesus Christ, French physical game looks like rehearsals for a Night at the Roxbury sketch on SNL.

[Enfant_Terrible]

(08-19-2011 10:21 AM)mycleverid Wrote:  

While I have a live wire here . . .

How the fuck do I use the metro system? I bought a card at CDG, but it only seems to work on the RER lines. I had even explicitly asked that midget fuck at the counter if the card would get me on the mtro lines. Sawed-off little baguette-eating fuck...

Memorize this phonetic French phrase I'm about to give you:

Lluh-kaarrhtohrrunge-seel-voo-play (le carte orange s'il vous plait)

Say it slowly first, then say it quickly like it's one word.

Say it to the midget fuck. Pay the fee and present 2 passport size photographs of your head and shoulders (where to get them is your next challenge)

I don't know if they still give out this pass but the carte orange pass gives you about a week access to ALL Paris trains (except Chunnel and Euro Rail) during the week or 7 days.

To use the metro, look at the colored lines and the ends. The end stops for each line-those are your references in the general direction you're going. You're going in the right direction if the stops in the middle of the line appear in the right sequence during your ride towards your destination. Have a metro map handy with you at all times. They have small pocket versions of these maps you can get for free at certain stops.

Here's more about the Paris Metro from Rick Steves and probably a better explanation than mine.

[tonehammer2009]

The Carte Orange was replaced by the Navigo pass a couple years ago.

Navigo: The regular Navigo is free to people working or living in Ile de France, but you have to apply for it and it generally takes a week or longer to arrive by mail.

The Navigo Découverte: costs 5 euros for the pass itself but is available instantly to anyone. The Navigo and Navigo Découverte both require photos, and they can both be recharged for a week or for a month.
Weekly prices, zone map and more, here:
h**p://parisbytrain.com/tag/navigo-pass/

Regarding clubs... take a look here:
h**p://paris.weemove.com/Discotheque-Paris-annuaire-2-0-0-0.aspx
You'll need to register if you want to view the pics for each club...

Have fun : )

[mycleverid]

I did get the Navigo thing figured out. The metro itself, once you can get past the turnstile, is probably the best thing I've seen about Paris. Holy hell do the trains get you across the city fast.

I'm presently at a hotel about a half mile the Arc de Triomphe and Champs Elysee.

@tonehammer2009: many thanks, that's by far the most comprehensive list I've seen.

[gig]

(08-19-2011 08:29 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I do find that eye contact during the day is especially meaningless. At night it's a better indicator.

+1 on that

In day time, I also found zero correlation between eye contact response and result.

Girls frown bad but when I actually approach they are super friendly and welcoming, and the opposite is true as well.

Eye contact = useless indicator.

At night, it's definitely more predictive in my experience as well.

[Dash Global]

Good thing about staying grounded in regards to the brazilian girls and their brother being present.

Yea it sucks that you cant go full out, but you cant be disrespecting the brother like that.

Unless he gives you the complete green light

[Dash Global]

260 pounds?!?!? wtf that is MASSIVE. how tall are you?

[mycleverid]

(08-20-2011 12:44 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

260 pounds?!?!? wtf that is MASSIVE. how tall are you?

6 feet 2 inches.

Strangely enough, where I live, in western Pennsylvania, I don't stand out as an unusually large person. In fact, I regularly joke with people I know that they tend to use me as the cutoff for big. Because I regularly hear them say, "So and so is bigger than you." I never hear them say, "Oh, he's big, but not as big as you."

My dad was 6'4" 200 lbs. My brother is 5'10 220. I have a cousin who is 6'8" 220. A second cousin who is 6' 300. I have a nephew who's 6'2" 270.

Hell, one of my brother's best friends is a drilling rig hand. He goes about 6'3" 350 lbs. Fairly solid less the beer gut.

Where I live, presuming a man has a good living and isn't a tad malnourished, he's practically expected to be at least six feet tall and 200 lbs. For example, my brother is sometimes treated as the little guy in the group.

[Mystik]

(08-19-2011 08:29 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I do find that eye contact during the day is especially meaningless. At night it's a better indicator.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but great point Roosh. I would like to add to this and say that for this reason you should look at the body language after or during the eye contact.

Hair touching after eye contact definite IOI and approach signal.

Looks away as soon as you see her eyeing you. Conscious signal. May mean nothing. Approach with caution and do not neg her.

Eyeing with a smirk on her face. Definite IOI.

Eyeing with curious look on her face. This is the one that means nothing.

Dove eyed eye contact. She likes what she is looking at but do the gentleman approach and do not neg her.

Also, this is a very cultural thing.

French girls don't eye during the day. Unless you are a celerity they will not look at you no matter what which is why I was baffled when the OP said that he was being eyed everywhere he went.

Thai girls eye you and then look down and start touching their hair because they are very shy about being approached.

Icelandic girls give you the eye as if they will rip your clothes and fuck you right there.

Russian girls are the most confusing, they look at you but pretend as if they are looking at something behind you and start acting funny.

[mycleverid]

(08-21-2011 01:31 AM)Mystik Wrote:  

French girls don't eye during the day. Unless you are a celerity they will not look at you no matter what which is why I was baffled when the OP said that he was being eyed everywhere he went.

I don't underestimate the freakshow factor. You just don't see a lot of muscular men in Paris. More than a couple times I have caught that I am conversation worthy.

Another question if anyone can answer quickly: is there anything to do on Sunday night in Paris? I'm about ready to just breakout the camera and go for a walk along the river. (I've already done the Tower.)

[Screwston]

How do French guys typically look? All you need are some muscles to stand out and get eye fucked?

[Mystik]

(08-26-2011 02:26 AM)houston Wrote:  

How do French guys typically look? All you need are some muscles to stand out and get eye fucked?

French guys are usually skinny. Then entire French population in general is very skinny, I don't know if its something in the water or in the air, when I was in Paris I used to eat like a pig and I never got fat. Really don't know why that happens.

I wouldn't say some muscles will make you stand out in the crowd. You will need to be huge like this guy is and again, I am still very skeptical that you will get eye fucked from French girls DURING DAYTIME. I hope mycleverid does not take this personally but that eyeing during the day may just have been for conversations or out of curiosity. That's the French culture, they just go around minding their own business and a lot of people confuse this for arrogance. That's just how they are and they don't look at each other.

At night in a club its a different story all together.

If you are so interested in going to Paris and slaying the local women then learn to speak French. That will be the best use of your time. Since, you are Latino and may already speak Spanish, your learning curve will be very flat. You will reach a good level in 3 months if you put in a consistent effort.

[mycleverid]

@mystik . . . I don't take it the wrong way at all. This forum is an excellent place for honest critiques. I don't underestimate at all how much of it is just the freakshow factor.

Anyhooz . . . left Paris yesterday. Failed to score. Very frustrating because several times things went well and then just fell apart in the dumbest ways.

Had a ridiculously cute Scanadanavian girl all over me until she managed to turn the "so how's life where you live conversation" into an endless diatribe on the wrongs of the American healthcare system. Was doing well with a singer from a live club until the club manager decided to explode at me in French for some perceived breach of etiquette. Two girls completely killed a set going well by deciding I needed dance lessons.

It's no wonder the French have to be so forward sexually. They pretty much have to start the game on Park Place to make it past Go considering the amount of distractions that arise from their endless and heated discussions of all the shit they think is wrong. For people who say life is to be lived, they spend a lot of time chasing down stupid shit that doesn't matter.

Landed in Prague yesterday afternoon and basically crashed. Paris is a hard place to sleep when you're having fun.

I will start a Prague thread as time permits.

(08-26-2011 02:26 AM)houston Wrote:  

How do French guys typically look? All you need are some muscles to stand out and get eye fucked?

French guys are pathetically small. Many times you will see a woman with a man she is physically bigger than. And that's saying a lot because the women are skinny as hell too.

It's all that walking. Everything in Paris is a death march somewhere. Also, almost nothing (besides cafes and bars) is conveniently placed. If you need to do laundry, you walk a mile. Need to get a bottle of pop? Another mile.

It's just the French and their priorities. They live on nothing but coffee, bread and booze.

As for "some muscles" . . . I'm not in the some muscles category. I'm pretty freakin huge. I don't think I ever discussed it on this forum, but I regularly get asked if I'm a bouncer, a bodyguard, a football player (American) or some type of muscle for bad people.

[Riker]

Hell yea, some type of muscle for bad people sounds bad ass. Good luck in Prague

[iknowexactly]

(08-29-2011 01:12 PM)mycleverid Wrote:  

Had a ridiculously cute Scanadanavian girl all over me until she managed to turn the "so how's life where you live conversation" into an endless diatribe on the wrongs of the American healthcare system.

This is a very useful story-- does anyone have any ideas how to change subjects diplomatically when a chick takes takes off on a buzz-killer tangent? Once they're really gone, it's too late sometimes; the mood is shot.

[Aliblahba]

(08-30-2011 01:11 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(08-29-2011 01:12 PM)mycleverid Wrote:  

Had a ridiculously cute Scanadanavian girl all over me until she managed to turn the "so how's life where you live conversation" into an endless diatribe on the wrongs of the American healthcare system.

This is a very useful story-- does anyone have any ideas how to change subjects diplomatically when a chick takes takes off on a buzz-killer tangent? Once they're really gone, it's too late sometimes; the mood is shot.

Tell them you're Canadian and moved because America is such a bad neighbor. Or you fled the U.S. b/c the Bush Empire burned your family in furnaces.

I had the displeasure of meeting plenty of S. Eurotrash ho's that were admant in explaining how fucked up America is and how we should fix it. Just smile and walk away, because once that shit starts it's over sexually.

[Screwston]

Is it a common occurence for women to start rambling on about America like that? Why the hell do they just start talking shit?