[ksbms]

I’ve been seeing this girl who's 22 years old, ten years my junior, for the last few months, though we live in different cities. Started getting questions from where it was going to if I was seeing anyone else.

Generally, she’s prone to drama (which, so far, I mitigated OK) and is very emotional girl (which girl isn't?). Last time she came to visit me, she was perusing her phone way too much when we went out to a Christmas market. Felt like I was competing for an attention with her phone big time, so I firmly told her to put her phone away. She got offended, blew things out of proportion, started sulking, not talking, walking away like a little child, etc.

Instead of calling a cab, taking her home, making her pack her stuff and kick her out, I tried to reason with her and be rational about it. The more I tried, the more irrelevant stuff she’d bring and make silly arguments to the point she said half-crying “I don’t want to be here”. I stopped paying attention to her from then on and walked ahead of her. Regardless, situation didn’t improve, we went home, she packed her stuff, and left for her city.

Then, she sent me a long text msg at two in the morning after the incident, indirectly apologising. Alas, days later she’d keep asking where all this was going, so I gave in and replied “I want you to be my girl.” She took half a day to respond, pulled back a bit and replied we should slow down because she was afraid she might get too attached. Didn't reply to that. We had tentative Nye plans, yet it transpired she’d prefer to go to Paris with her gay friend . Made a mistake, instead of pulling back as hard as I could, argued about it - she offered I could join her and her friend but declined to 'tag along'. A day later I realised I was getting way too invested and it showed big time.

Hence, initiated a soft next, planning to re-initiate a week later. To my surprise, what followed from the next day was her:

day 1: msg me: “I get it”,
day 2: text me asking if I was ok,
day 3: call me, then facebook msg a broken heart,
day 4: contact a mutual friend to tell me she couldn’t get hold of me,
day 5: call me again,
day 6: facebook msg a video link to a romantic song.

A full week passed, hence re-initated contact with her as planned, and messaged her it was a nice song and that I saw she called me. Now it’s been a week and haven’t heard back at all.

Ideas?

[Hallasan]

How old is this girl? She seems very young and immature.

How into her are you? Were you serious about being in a monogamous relationship with her? Is there a possibility of you both living in the same city in near future?

Gotta give us more context.

Honestly, I think she realized what you did, the plan to wait a week, she's probably doing the same thing.

Really, I think you should move on. This girl seems like she's gonna drag you down.

[TornadoByProxy]

Looks like you didn't gauge her well. A week was too long for this girl. All girls aren't alike. A week will work with some but be too long for others. Looks like you didn't know the right length of time for this one.

Either way, you nexted her, so what's the problem? Are you hung up on her? Was it an empty threat?

[heavy]

I see this a lot on the forum. Guys trying to play the alpha role without the alpha actions. I'll use the phone thing as an example.

Girl perusing phone way too much, so you *firmly* told her to put her phone away.

Best move: Ignore her while she's on her phone and entertain yourself with something else. Check out stuff in the market, ask the merchant about his roasted chestnuts, wander away from her and engage the world and have a good time...like a man. She'll probably drop her phone and pay attention. She might not, oh well. If she doesn't, you still learned about the fine art of roasting chestnuts on an open fire.

She's testing you...seeing if she can manipulate you by being on her phone. She wants to see your masculine trait, that of not needing attention from her to live a good life.

Be sincere about your actions. If she thinks you're reacting to her, that you're wandering off in pursuit of roasted chestnuts to be a little bitch and get back at her, she'll continue to be difficult and try to make you up your game.

She wants you to show her your masculinity. She's setting the stage for you to be the man...all you have to do is play the role. It may not be easy, but it is simple.

See the problem is, you don't have the power to have her around and give you attention (not be on her phone). You have the power to be around her and her do what she wants. You can leave. In the old days, you could grab her phone and force her to hang out with you. But let's be honest, it's much more phone to get attention from a girl who wants and loves to give us attention anyway.

I don't suggest this though it is an option...if you're going to *firmly* tell her that, be willing to back your shit up. Be the crazy guy and take her phone away. She may never talk to you again, but she sure as shit would fear you a little and respect you, because you back your shit up. And maybe she'll get all wet and love that you're a man, a slightly crazy man.

[ksbms]

(12-22-2016 09:11 AM)Hallasan Wrote:  

How old is this girl? She seems very young and immature.

How into her are you? Were you serious about being in a monogamous relationship with her? Is there a possibility of you both living in the same city in near future?

Gotta give us more context.

Honestly, I think she realized what you did, the plan to wait a week, she's probably doing the same thing.

Really, I think you should move on. This girl seems like she's gonna drag you down.

22 years old. Yes, I was considering being exclusive. There's a possibility to live in the same city late spring, I guess.

Soft next is supposed to make her know you do it (withdraw attention) for a reason. Whether she realised I was planning to contact her after a full week or not shouldn't be that relevant.

Rather, I'd understand a girl being unresponsive in general, from the moment I initiated it. Here, she has blown my phone everyday, then the day I contacted her she went silent.

[dallasguy]

You're getting played by a child. Use her as a plate until you find someone better

[General Stalin]

Sounds like a typical flakey and fickle young girl. Don't expend too much mental energy dealing with her. Don't expend too much energy dealing with any woman who isn't potentially going to be the mother of your children, at least that's my philosophy.

She wasn't on her phone because she was testing you. She was on her phone because that's what 22 year old girls do. They chat with other people and browse social media. It's practically an involuntary muscle. She was likely chatting with other dudes too. Whatever. If she doesn't treat you how you like to be treated and conduct herself like someone you should take seriously then don't. Try to be more breezy and casual. Like you said, you are are getting deeper into this girl than you should be.

If she doesn't respond then just move on. If she does respond then don't overthink shit and don't get all emotional about it. Breezy and casual.

Also, on the topic of potentially making her your exclusive woman: she doesn't sound like someone you should be committing too.

[kaotic]

(12-22-2016 08:38 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

Generally, she’s prone to drama (which, so far, I mitigated OK) and is very emotional girl (which girl isn't?). Last time she came to visit me, she was perusing her phone way too much when we went out to a Christmas market. Felt like I was competing for an attention with her phone big time, so I firmly told her to put her phone away. She got offended, blew things out of proportion, started sulking, not talking, walking away like a little child, etc.

I haven't had to deal with this because I smack it down when I initially meet a girl, they know I hate when they're on their phone and I always make it a point to have my phone on the bar or table, then let it ring or text, and say woops, that's super rude, I hate when people are on their phones. Or go into some conversation about everyone's connected noone is connecting.

I understand a girl checking her phone ever so often, like a quick glance, even I do that.

Quote:

Instead of calling a cab, taking her home, making her pack her stuff and kick her out, I tried to reason with her and be rational about it. The more I tried, the more irrelevant stuff she’d bring and make silly arguments to the point she said half-crying “I don’t want to be here”. I stopped paying attention to her from then on and walked ahead of her. Regardless, situation didn’t improve, we went home, she packed her stuff, and left for her city.

The fact she got offended and threw a temper tantrum should've been a one way ticket to go the fuck home.

As soon as she said, "I don't want to be here" you should've said "you're right, this is a waste of time spending time with you tonight" and took her home, had her pack her shit while you sat there and watched TV with a beer acting unphased as she tried pouting, shit testing you, and crying.

Quote:

Then, she sent me a long text msg at two in the morning after the incident, indirectly apologising. Alas, days later she’d keep asking where all this was going, so I gave in and replied “I want you to be my girl.” She took half a day to respond, pulled back a bit and replied we should slow down because she was afraid she might get too attached. Didn't reply to that. We had tentative Nye plans, yet it transpired she’d prefer to go to Paris with her gay friend . Made a mistake, instead of pulling back as hard as I could, argued about it - she offered I could join her and her friend but declined to 'tag along'. A day later I realised I was getting way too invested and it showed big time.

Indirectly apologizing is half assed and is bullshit.

When she asked "Where is this going" - you should've said, "after the other night and the way you acted, I'm not sure, your actions spoke louder than your words...." - dread game initiated - hamster full speed.

When she said we should slow down, to me that's a bullshit answer, she wants to slow down because she wants to look at other options.

Why didn't you have your own plans for NYE ? You're planning things around your girl.

You should be flipping the script and having her plan her time around you, your plans, your friends - to which you invite her to.

You don't want to go to her NYE plans then tell her flat out, you shouldn't be ashamed about that - once again dread game, "who will he be with on NYE, will he a NYE kiss ?"

Quote:

Hence, initiated a soft next, planning to re-initiate a week later. To my surprise, what followed from the next day was her:

day 1: msg me: “I get it”,
day 2: text me asking if I was ok,
day 3: call me, then facebook msg a broken heart,
day 4: contact a mutual friend to tell me she couldn’t get hold of me,
day 5: call me again,
day 6: facebook msg a video link to a romantic song.

A full week passed, hence re-initated contact with her as planned, and messaged her it was a nice song and that I saw she called me. Now it’s been a week and haven’t heard back at all.

Ideas?

6 days of silence....and you plan on her hanging around ?

She got your hint, you soft NEXTED her, of course she's going to move on, what did you expect ?

She sounds like a bunch of unneeded drama in you life if she huffs and pouts about putting her phone away.

[Serious Sam]

(12-22-2016 08:38 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

Then, she sent me a long text msg at two in the morning after the incident, indirectly apologising. Alas, days later she’d keep asking where all this was going, so I gave in and replied “I want you to be my girl.” She took half a day to respond, pulled back a bit and replied we should slow down because she was afraid she might get too attached.

I got the feeling while reading your post that you did not see this girl as being wife or relationship material. It seemed as though you "gave in" once things started to take a turn for the worse in a last ditch effort to salvage what you had.

It is possible that she got this feeling as well, and was probably texting/meeting other prospects. Women fucking hate being the on the receiving end of breakups, and they never want to admit that a guy was using them for sex. So she sent out that feeler in hopes that you would reply the way you did. Now she can tell her little gay buddy that you were getting too needy and wanted something serious when she wanted to keep things casual.

I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about her. The ball is in her court now. If she hits you up, then keep it casual, do your best to mask any feelings you may have for her. If she doesn't, you can send out a feeler in a week or two to see if you can get a little more traction out of her. But I think it's pretty clear that this girl is not worth considering for a relationship or marriage.

[AneroidOcean]

kaotic broke it down pretty well as did others. It's clear that this girl's behavior is in a large part predicated by your own. You may not want to hear it, but it's the truth. You didn't make this thread because you had all the answers so stop pretending you do and listen. It will help you next time.

This sounds like it could've been easily a mini-ltr or at least a long-term plate but you played it poorly and then instead of recovering you went over the top. You're treating her like she will respond to reason and logic and that you can convince her with dialogue not rooted in emotion. That's your mistake. You're not convincing a male friend of a viewpoint, you're supposed to be letting her invest in you not the other way around.

Remember, it's a girl's job to escalate relationship/emotional commitment, it's a man's to escalate the physical. You tried to take her role and she rightly left as she had no role or interest to play.

[robreke]

One of the mistakes older guys or any guys, for that matter, make when "dating" women younger than 23 is they expect them to act like something other than a teenager.

A 22 year old girl is still, mentally and action-wise, a teenager. They're teenagers until about 23-25 depending on the woman.

Don't expect a serious, committed, relationship from any woman this young. Expect from it and approach it like you're dating a teenager because you are. Expect child-like antics, conversations about and her interest in vapid immature things, extra high levels of flakiness and even expect them to leave you some day, because they will, unless you get sick of their shit and dump them first.

Don't expect a teenager to act like a grown woman.

[Rhyme or Reason]

You're ten years older than her. You fucked up by acting out on her level. Weak.

When the chick is that much younger than you, she's expecting you to act like a fucking man, which you have not. She's supposed to be a 'kid' to you, instead of assuming the role of the leader you bitched out and showed her you see her as an equal. Major pussy drier.

Amused mastery is the medicine, and you've effectively demonstrated you aren't capable of it. You opted to react to her behavior rather than write your own ticket. She has taken note of this.

I agree with most of the above replies. Heavy has it right, other than "going full alpha and grabbing her phone" which I don't agree with at all.

Look at it this way, what do your actions mean?

What do they tell her, without explicitly telling her?

In this case it's that you're insecure about losing her.

Quote:

I tried to reason with her and be rational about it. The more I tried, the more irrelevant stuff she’d bring and make silly arguments to the point she said half-crying “I don’t want to be here”.

Yeah, awful. You have her on a pedestal...that pedestal being the erroneous assumption that she's capable, let along willing to partake in rational discourse
.

Tip: the more emotionally unruly a girl gets, your response should be equally unemotional. You made the mistake of thinking "Oh shes acting out, I must get to the bottom of why this is and address this issue to resolve it". It basically tells her "Ok, I've got this guy's number. I know exactly what buttons to push and when, to get the reaction i want, because I crave drama."

That pings as beta to her lizard brain.

As opposed to...

"What's his deal? Why can't i figure him out? He's such a mystery..."

Which do you think is going to appeal to her emotional side? Which of course is all that matters.

Here's my policy when it comes to this shit:

Let her do what she "wants". She doesn't wanna "be here"? Ok there's the door. She wants to break up? Ok there's the door. She doesn't think I'm "committed enough" Ok there's the door. She doesn't like how I spend too much time with friends? Door. The brass device on it is located somewhere in the middle area, is to be twisted, pressure applied, whereupon you may exit at any time you deem appropriate.

The very title of this thread confused me when I clicked on it. "Soft next, what went wrong". I wasn't sure if you were the nexter or the nextee. A next is a next in my book, and if you were the nexter, you should know what went wrong and why you chose to act in the manner that you did. The fact that you nexted her with the expectation that she would come back around shows us (and more importantly, her) that your actions are inconsistant with you desires, and there's nothing women can pick up on easier than that.

So if it's a next, then it's a next. Charge it to the game, and move on.

[LeoneVolpe]

OP,

Even if you could somehow "turn things around," it wouldn't be worth it. You've already established a bad precedent with this girl that will carry on over into a relationship should you have the misfortune of ending up in one. Also, your post reads like you're trying to mimic "alpha" behavior without having the inner game to make your actions congruent with who you are. Do some work on yourself. I'm willing to bet if you got into the gym and scoped out some fresh prospects, not only would you forget about this girl pretty quickly, but you'd also create an abundance mentality that would allow you to "next" girls without second guessing yourself.

It may not seem like it now, but I think you dodged a bullet. Best of luck, buddy.

[Fightersword]

Shoulda played it more by ear. You waited too long and she got over it. It felt like it all 'climaxed' around her going to a mutual friend to ask about you. Remember clinging to hard rules isn't good for actual game a lot of the time. You have to deviate depending on your situation and also do it in a way that's natural. If you go too iron hard on the guidelines like you won't be genuine or even come off as such. A week is a good time frame, but often not the exact time you should go with.

As for the girl herself, she sounds like a basketcase and I would have nexted her. You should definitely next her at this point. You probably won't get anywhere and even if you did it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Next her, hit on lots of girls, get that abundance mentality rolling, then you'll be a lot more comfortable with dealing with these situations and with presenting yourself, so your alpha behavior will be less ridged and forced.

[ksbms]

Thanks everyone for your insightful comments - I'll try to address at least some of them shortly. In the mean time, I've just re-read "The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon". Always a good read.

[LeoneVolpe]

^ "The Sixteen Commandments of Poon" should be required reading for anyone in the game. And as you mentioned, it never hurts to brush up on it once in a while, too.

[jselysianeagle]

(12-22-2016 05:11 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Don't expect a teenager to act like a grown woman.

/thread, lol.

Seriously, no matter how tight your game, chics at that age are just weird. They may be great lays but nothing more. Their antics can drive a sane, mature guy crazy.

I'd next her as a relationship prospect, but maybe keep her on the backburner as a plate.

And if she doesn't message you, just let it slide and forget about her.

[ksbms]

It's Christmas so I thought I'd reach out and:

Asked her how she was doing.

She replied she was fine and hoped I had good Christmas.

Then I messaged it was an opportunity to reconcile and to rekindle the embers.

Her message was it was a bit too late to rekindle them and she would be my friend when i needed it.


Oh, dear. I'm waiting for the forum flogging to begin...

[ksbms]

(12-22-2016 10:58 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

They chat with other people and browse social media. It's practically an involuntary muscle. She was likely chatting with other dudes too.

Yes, sir, you nailed it and that's what transpired (but wasn't told openly) over the phone. If a chick is vacillating and says things to the equivalence of "I'm not sure", there's always another guy (or more of them) in the background. Some things clicked together after the conversation we had tonight.

Yes, I know, I should've just kicked her and not speak to her ever again - but I"m not angry, not that greatly disappointed (I'm quite a bit, I won't deny it) and thought at least I'll learn a few things.

Interestingly, she didn't reply to my message on the crucial day of December 16th until now, when I messaged her on Christmas day asking how she was doing. Why wouldn't she have stayed consistent and keep not replying? Even more strange, I got her on the phone for nearly an hour, late at night, just a few hours before her taking a flight for her trip.

So, what happened?

Apparently, she was going crazy for the few days when I went silent, and tried frantically to get in touch with me because she was so much worried about me.

Yet, my not talking to her for these few days justified for her to fully detach from me mentally and lock down a new guy from her university in a week's time and be already happy with him (as she claims) despite her telling me I was her true love and then te quiero many times over! Damn, these girls move on quickly.

All of this in a space of a week, like I mentioned, but she claims it's been a MONTH ago since we've spoken. Yes, that's what she was telling me and my pointing out to look up the dates in the conversations was met with "I deleted all the conversations and I don't remember". A month in her mind, whereas the last message she sent me was 14th and I messaged her already back 16th, but that message was conveniently ignored. At least she could've messaged back "I met someone, bye", or something similar to make it a "clean break".

And why no clean break? I suspect that around 16th she still wasn't sure if she'd click with the new guy. Had he fucked her once and left at that, she could've gone back to me, if she wanted. Sneaky.

Yes, she could've interpreted my not replying for a few days as "I've broken up with you", but still - lack of a message, isn't a message - especially, as I replied to her a week later.

"Ah, he's not replying, I'll just fuck another guy, whatever," a go-to solution for her seemed to be. Fair enough, a couple weeks pass, you're going to start going on dates, but she's got herself locked-down with a new guy within that week. Hmm. What if I had an accident and was admitted to a hospital, for example?

Things that make much more sense now:

- she didn't want to spend Nye together pre soft-next,

- I noticed her having Tinder on her phone when the screen lit up after a match (didn't comment on that),

- she admitted she's been "talking and met people" for some months now,

- once, pre soft-next she called me for the first time "my friend" which was odd but I said nothing.

- she took over half a day to reply to my "I want to take care of you" with her suggesting to slow down (I did take notice it was strangely too long and an unexpected reply - I guess that was the pivotal moment to abort the ship - alas, I preferred to stay semi-blind) and probably "speed up" with another guy.

- all in all, the cracks been showing up for a month at least or so.


Obviously, it's all my fault it happened, and she interpreted my not replying to her for a week that I moved on so it justified her moving on.

What conclusions should I draw from that?

Living in two different cities and seeing each other every few weeks doesn't help. Christmas and her going away on a trip until beginning of January would make it a long time without seeing each other, too.

Only soft-next a girl immediately after what she has done you wrong. In this case, just after she has thrown her tantrum about my telling her to put her phone down, as Kaotic intelligently wrote in his reply to my post.

(12-22-2016 01:27 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(12-22-2016 08:38 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

Last time she came to visit me, she was perusing her phone way too much when we went out to a Christmas market. Felt like I was competing for an attention with her phone big time, so I firmly told her to put her phone away. She got offended, blew things out of proportion, started sulking, not talking, walking away like a little child, etc.

Quote:

Instead of calling a cab, taking her home, making her pack her stuff and kick her out, I tried to reason with her and be rational about it.

The fact she got offended and threw a temper tantrum should've been a one way ticket to go the fuck home.

As soon as she said, "I don't want to be here" you should've said "you're right, this is a waste of time spending time with you tonight" and took her home, had her pack her shit while you sat there and watched TV with a beer acting unphased as she tried pouting, shit testing you, and crying.

Having done it some days later only caused confusion and backfired to a certain extent only because that girl was exhibiting "amber alert" lights behaviour pre soft-next and was of two minds how much she wanted me. I can only wish the other guy to withstand the emotional roller-coaster and unpredictable behaviour.

I reckon, that you, too, will have some interesting insights?

[Rhyme or Reason]

Here's an insight for you OP:

You're way too far up your own ass over this chick. She's moved on, and so should you.

[262]

^

[ksbms]

I get you guys but I think it's worth to make an analysis so as to improve and manage girls better next time. After all, it's one of key purpose of our forum and the valuable input from other experienced gamesmen.

I was getting the feel it would go tits up so have already put wheels in motion. For example, I met a cute Canadian chick at the airport 2 days ago and got her number. Perhaps will post in the approach thread later.

Still, comments welcome regarding this thread.