[Edmund Ironside]

How far do you think the feminists would go to "prove" that the idea of male physical superiority is a myth? Obviously they are doing everything they can culturally to encourage weakness in men and strength in women. I've often wondered to what extent chemical enhancement might be involved.

I stumbled across this story: Women Want Real Weights at the Gym (Wall Street Journal)



Now, anyone who knows me in real life knows that I don't have anything against fit athletic women, or women lifting weights. But in my experience, women who end up with arms looking like that one featured in the picture are exceedingly rare. That isn't becoming normal is it? (I haven't worked out at a gym in a long time ... I have my own weights and my lifting isn't too elaborate these days.) If we start to see women really bulking up like that, at more than a one in a million rate, I have to suspect there is some juicing going on. I'm no doctor, maybe I'm just showing my patriarchal bias. I didn't think women, other than very rare freaks, got that kind of bulk and definition naturally no matter how much they work out.

[Edmund Ironside]

I'm old enough to remember when seeing women like that made us think of things like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_East_Germany

"State-endorsed doping began with the Cold War when every eastern bloc gold was an ideological victory. From 1974, Manfred Ewald, the head of the GDR's sports federation, imposed blanket doping. At the 1968 Mexico City Olympics, the country of 17 million collected nine gold medals. Four years later the total was 20 and in 1976 it doubled again to 40.[13] Ewald was quoted as having told coaches, "They're still so young and don't have to know everything." He was given a 22-month suspended sentence, to the outrage of his victims.[14]

Often, doping was carried out without the knowledge of the athletes, some of them as young as ten years of age. It is estimated that around 10,000 former athletes bear the physical and mental scars of years of drug abuse,[15] one of them is Rica Reinisch, a triple Olympic champion and world record-setter at the Moscow Games in 1980, has since suffered numerous miscarriages and recurring ovarian cysts."

[Atlanta Man]

(12-17-2016 08:35 AM)Edmund Ironside Wrote:  

How far do you think the feminists would go to "prove" that the idea of male physical superiority is a myth? Obviously they are doing everything they can culturally to encourage weakness in men and strength in women. I've often wondered to what extent chemical enhancement might be involved.

I stumbled across this story: Women Want Real Weights at the Gym (Wall Street Journal)



Now, anyone who knows me in real life knows that I don't have anything against fit athletic women, or women lifting weights. But in my experience, women who end up with arms looking like that one featured in the picture are exceedingly rare. That isn't becoming normal is it? (I haven't worked out at a gym in a long time ... I have my own weights and my lifting isn't too elaborate these days.) If we start to see women really bulking up like that, at more than a one in a million rate, I have to suspect there is some juicing going on. I'm no doctor, maybe I'm just showing my patriarchal bias. I didn't think women, other than very rare freaks, got that kind of bulk and definition naturally no matter how much they work out.

The article is behind a paywall, can you post the text?

[ivansirko]

The story is more for "women's only" gyms which are nothing new. Whats new is using heavier weights. I have no issue with women getting fit and healthy (although that photo seems the opposite) as long as the same women dont have a problem with guys only gyms.

Here is the story.

Quote:

Susan Azam exercises six to seven times a week and works in the finance industry. But she hesitates to enter gym weightlifting areas where she typically sees a bunch of guys lifting.

“I still don’t feel comfortable saying, ‘Pardon me, are you done with these weights? Can you spot me?’ ” she says.

She was taking boot-camp and interval-training classes at a New York studio called Trooper Fitness last spring when she spied a weight-training class in the next room that included a mix of men and women. She tried the class and loved the encouraging, detailed instruction.

Now the 125-pound Ms. Azam can squat-lift 135 pounds.

“I would have never thought I could do that,” says Ms. Azam, who is 25 and does weightlifting workouts a few times a week.

More traditional gyms and boutiques are expanding weight areas to meet rising demand from women. They are also introducing heavier weights to the historically female realm of exercise classes. Gyms aim to accommodate women who want to lift but feel elbowed aside or self-conscious in weight areas.

Many women have used five- or 10-pound weights as part of workouts. But in recent years more women are lifting heavier weights, spurred in part by intensive regimens like CrossFit that use Olympic-style barbell lifts.

Equinox Fitness Clubs recently launched their first class to emphasize heavier weights and fewer repetitions. The class, called Pure Strength, uses hand-held weights of 15 to 40 pounds each and a maximum of 8 reps per set. The idea was to demystify the weight room, a spokeswoman says. Since the class’s October launch, 64% of registrants have been women.

“I felt more comfortable trying it because I knew it was all women,” she says. She learned how to do standing deadlifts, and squats with the barbell in front of and behind her, among other lifts. She now visits the studio once a week for Girlstrong classes and twice for more intense, weightlifting-centered workouts.

Ms. Bartolik finds her yoga and weight workouts complementary. “I can do arm balances and inversions that I couldn’t get into before,” she says. “And the yoga helps me with flexibility, like I can get deeper into my squats.”

As free weights gain popularity, many gyms’ weight areas have become overcrowded, says Rory McGown, founder and chief executive of fitness-analytics firm GYMetrix. At about two dozen gyms in the U.S., GYMetrix asked members to list their favorite pieces of equipment and how accessible they are.

Among women who named racks for squatting with heavy weights as a favorite, the most common response was that the racks were “usually busy and it bothers me,” Mr. McGown says.

The University of Vermont’s fitness program has expanded its Women on Weights class in recent years to two sessions each semester. Class participants are about 60% staff and faculty, and this year include a woman in her 60s, says Eli Barrett, fitness coordinator for UVM Campus Recreation.

“A lot of women here didn’t want to bulk up,” Mr. Barrett says. “But if you lift the correct ways, then you’re creating lean muscle.”

[Dr. Howard]

Can't read whole article. Pasting text would be helpful. But from the subheadline

Quote:

Squat-lifting 135 pounds

Wall Street Typist please tell me, what is this new squat lifting? 135 pounds you say?

Also, regarding the blond beast preparing to deadlift in the photo. That woman isn't chemically enhanced by any means. There were plenty of girls built like that when I was in school and they were the likely lesbians, female shot putters, big bertha types with a Shrek/Ogress type of build.

Weightlifting probably helps them feel good about their hill giant type builds as their frames give them a natural advantage over other women. Its not like they will get banged anymore but good for them for being healthy and not a drain on the medical system.

Female pro athletes, in the east german vein though, definitely drugged up.

[Edmund Ironside]

The article is kind of long (and a lot of it not that interesting) but here are a couple of excerpts with the gist:

More traditional gyms and boutiques are expanding weight areas to meet rising demand from women. They are also introducing heavier weights to the historically female realm of exercise classes. Gyms aim to accommodate women who want to lift but feel elbowed aside or self-conscious in weight areas.

Many women have used five- or 10-pound weights as part of workouts. But in recent years more women are lifting heavier weights, spurred in part by intensive regimens like CrossFit that use Olympic-style barbell lifts.

Equinox Fitness Clubs recently launched their first class to emphasize heavier weights and fewer repetitions. The class, called Pure Strength, uses hand-held weights of 15 to 40 pounds each and a maximum of 8 reps per set. The idea was to demystify the weight room, a spokeswoman says. Since the class’s October launch, 64% of registrants have been women.
...
At Blink Fitness, more women are using free weights and racks used for heavier lifting, says David Collignon, vice president of operations for the lower-cost chain in New York and New Jersey owned by Equinox Holdings Inc. Blink is changing its mix of strength to cardio equipment based on member feedback and GYMetrix data, he says.

The University of Vermont’s fitness program has expanded its Women on Weights class in recent years to two sessions each semester. Class participants are about 60% staff and faculty, and this year include a woman in her 60s, says Eli Barrett, fitness coordinator for UVM Campus Recreation.

“A lot of women here didn’t want to bulk up,” Mr. Barrett says. “But if you lift the correct ways, then you’re creating lean muscle.”

[Atlanta Man]

One thing I agree with in the article is gyms Need More Squat Racks! NMSR!

[Thersites]

There is nothing more infuriating that see all the squat racks taken and majority of them are being by people with don't know how to squat.

[Edmund Ironside]

US women dominated in the 2016 Olympics. Is their reasoning about why valid, or is the US just better at getting away with doping?

Quote:

Most striking was the performance by the American women. The American men won 18 gold medals, the same as Britain. But the American women were dominant with 27 (not including a gold in mixed doubles tennis). Had the women competed as a separate country, they would have ranked third in the overall medal chart (61), behind China (70) and Britain (67) and just ahead of the American men (60).

There are two primary reasons for this pre-eminence. The United States is one of the few countries to embed sports within the public education system. And equal access to sports for women comes with legal protections, gained with the education amendment known as Title IX in 1972 and the Olympic and Amateur Sports Act in 1978.

About one of every two American girls participates in sports in high school. Of the 213 American medalists in individual and team sports in Rio, according to the U.S.O.C., nearly 85 percent participated in university-funded sports. “Those things don’t exist elsewhere in the world,” said Donna Lopiano, a former executive director of the Women’s Sports Foundation. “We have the largest base of athletic development. Our women are going to dominate, not only because of their legal rights but because women in other parts of the world are discriminated against.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/sports...n-rio.html

[Repo]

I for one love the trend of women lifting heavier weights. This trend is responsible for white girls starting to compete with black girls in the ass category. Oh, and the chick in that pic is clearly fat, there is alot of flubber on those arms, that definately isn't all muscle.,

[RIslander]

The girl in the pic is fat and deadlifting 75lbs.

[Khan]

So on one side we have the trend of more women hitting the gym, and on the other we have rising obesity rates. That's interesting.

[General Stalin]

That ogre in the pic is not healthy looking and is not lifting heavy weight. Looks like maybe half her body weight.

Boohoo women want to be big strong power lifter bitches but are scared to lift weight around men? Cry me a river and get out of the gym then. Christ. Women have been fighting for years to get into traditionally men's spaces now they want them to be women only. Fuck off.

[RexImperator]

CrossFit has used "Strong is the new skinny" for a few years now. Most CrossFit girls don't go that heavy but usually a few get really into it and get Xenia Onatopp thighs.

At powerlifting gyms I've seen tiny girls squat in the mid 300's.

[Surreyman]

(12-17-2016 11:09 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

That ogre in the pic is not healthy looking and is not lifting heavy weight. Looks like maybe half her body weight.

Boohoo women want to be big strong power lifter bitches but are scared to lift weight around men? Cry me a river and get out of the gym then. Christ. Women have been fighting for years to get into traditionally men's spaces now they want them to be women only. Fuck off.

Yea I've never understood this shit. "oh no, a man made a noise whilst lifting, I'm intimidated and have to leave".

Is the idea that we're all really mad that they're using the bench press?

The real truth:

[la bodhisattva]

Women want these faggy, feminist-inspired gyms that make everyone feel great for looking ghastly. That's precisely the problem. These gyms not only attract dreadful women but dreadful manginas as well. If there is a real reason why women are gawked at in gyms, it's because they're sharing the place with people equally uninterested in fitness and strength. Go to a real gym with chalk, platforms, numerous squat racks, and dumbbells that go up to 140 lbs and see how much "unwanted" (they always want it) attention they receive. The men they're soooo intimidated by are the ones who will ignore their presence because they're focused on hitting PRs, not flirting with an #badass skank whose lululemon pants are doing its best to morph her cottage cheese ass into something reasonably human.

[SegaSaturn1994]

(12-17-2016 12:07 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

CrossFit has used "Strong is the new skinny" for a few years now. Most CrossFit girls don't go that heavy but usually a few get really into it and get Xenia Onatopp thighs.

At powerlifting gyms I've seen tiny girls squat in the mid 300's.

A lot of powerlifting is not really about strength and power. It's about using leverage to get the weight up and reducing the range of motion as much as possible. When you do a max squat, the target muscles are not engaged properly as they should but rather it morphs into an ugly morning exercise where the supportive structures of the body take on the brunt of the load, greatly compromising spinal integrity and leading to people who walk like the elderly in their 30's.

Bodybuilding is more about true strength than powerlifting is.

[Foolsgo1d]

Picture is Crossfit, not deadlifting.

Women who think they can take it to the level of men in the gym are the same delusional bitches who get absolutely wrecked when a physical confrontation occurs with a man who doesn't give two fucks about smashing her with a right.

They power walk, jump or run at the man and get laid out. I don't need to show examples, just youtube or Worldstar them. My 11 year old nephew could overpower a physically capable woman after a short period of training or give her one hell of a struggle.

I stay well clear of women who are itching for a scrap with a man.

[General Stalin]

(12-17-2016 01:55 PM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  

(12-17-2016 12:07 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

CrossFit has used "Strong is the new skinny" for a few years now. Most CrossFit girls don't go that heavy but usually a few get really into it and get Xenia Onatopp thighs.

At powerlifting gyms I've seen tiny girls squat in the mid 300's.

A lot of powerlifting is not really about strength and power. It's about using leverage to get the weight up and reducing the range of motion as much as possible. When you do a max squat, the target muscles are not engaged properly as they should but rather it morphs into an ugly morning exercise where the supportive structures of the body take on the brunt of the load, greatly compromising spinal integrity and leading to people who walk like the elderly in their 30's.

Bodybuilding is more about true strength than powerlifting is.

^ while there is some truth to that, saying powerlifting isn't really about strength or power is a gross exaggeration. In powerlifitng, you are definitely using your legs when you squat, you're definitely using your chest when you bench, and you'r definitely using your back when you deadlift. The big difference is that powerlifters treat the "big 3" as full body movements, not just compound lifts that target a couple muscle groups. Saying a dude who can squat 1000+ lbs. raw isn't stong is absurd no matter how you slice it. Body building is not a strength based sport - its a physique/aesthetic based sport. Powerlifting is strictly about strength and power.

You can be a true master at leverages and technique with your lift, but if you aren't very strong, you're not going to be lifting the same weight as the pros.

That said, I've never seen "tiny" girls lift a lot of weight personally. The only girls in my powerlifting gym who put up decent weight are thick as fuck. The strongest girl in my gym I don't think is even as strong as I am, and I'm not very strong at all by power lifting standards. My total is sub 1000 lbs.

[AlphaRN]

(12-17-2016 09:21 AM)Edmund Ironside Wrote:  

US women dominated in the 2016 Olympics. Is their reasoning about why valid, or is the US just better at getting away with doping?

Quote:

Most striking was the performance by the American women. The American men won 18 gold medals, the same as Britain. But the American women were dominant with 27 (not including a gold in mixed doubles tennis). Had the women competed as a separate country, they would have ranked third in the overall medal chart (61), behind China (70) and Britain (67) and just ahead of the American men (60).

There are two primary reasons for this pre-eminence. The United States is one of the few countries to embed sports within the public education system. And equal access to sports for women comes with legal protections, gained with the education amendment known as Title IX in 1972 and the Olympic and Amateur Sports Act in 1978.

About one of every two American girls participates in sports in high school. Of the 213 American medalists in individual and team sports in Rio, according to the U.S.O.C., nearly 85 percent participated in university-funded sports. “Those things don’t exist elsewhere in the world,” said Donna Lopiano, a former executive director of the Women’s Sports Foundation. “We have the largest base of athletic development. Our women are going to dominate, not only because of their legal rights but because women in other parts of the world are discriminated against.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/sports...n-rio.html

No. It is because the U.S. pours a ridiculous amount of money into women's sports. Few countries in the world have women's sports on the organizational and participation level of the U.S. Most countries don't have the extra cash, or simply refuse to dump said cash, into the money pit that is women's sport. The U.S. simply uses the successful and profitable men's sports to subsidize and pay for the women's teams. Title IX is the greatest example of wealth redistribution the world has ever seen. She is right. It is law in the U.S. that profitable men's team have to pay for money-pit women's teams. Go equality!

While women in other countries may or may not be discriminated against, it is fact those countries don't force the men's teams to pay for the women's. Oh, the sexism of paying your own way!

[alexdagr81]

I will add that leverages are probably the biggest determinates in your lifting. Whether your muscles insert farther away from the joints or if you have a favorable bone structure for the lift, those will reduce the moment of resistance.

[Snowflake]

I have re-read the OP, still not sure what the premise of this thread is. I just hope it doesn't evolve into a "are females as strong as men thread?". That's been done to death (the answer is no, by the way).

I'll say this much: weightlifting, if done in moderation and following the right program, is absolutely amazing for women. Ever fucked a girl who can squat 250+? I have, it feels amazing.

What I'm trying to get at is, we should encourage girls towards gym culture and working out. Boundaries must be drawn of course; nobody likes roided up she-hulks, everyone is a fan of a nice round bubble butt shaped by heavy squats in the gym. I've actually given the topic of women & the gym a lot of thought, and I think it's the golden ticket to - somewhat - cure the US' (and other countries, to a smaller extent) problem of sky-high obesity rates and pharma-drugs abuse.

Committing to working out means a multitude of things: it is the anti-chamber to a healthier, less lazy, more humble lifestyle for a lot of people. The great cultures of the past knew this, "mens sana in corpore sano".

I hope my points sound reasonable. My perspective is skewed, I must admit, by my love for round, thick(er) asses.

[SegaSaturn1994]

(12-17-2016 03:46 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(12-17-2016 01:55 PM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  

(12-17-2016 12:07 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

CrossFit has used "Strong is the new skinny" for a few years now. Most CrossFit girls don't go that heavy but usually a few get really into it and get Xenia Onatopp thighs.

At powerlifting gyms I've seen tiny girls squat in the mid 300's.

A lot of powerlifting is not really about strength and power. It's about using leverage to get the weight up and reducing the range of motion as much as possible. When you do a max squat, the target muscles are not engaged properly as they should but rather it morphs into an ugly morning exercise where the supportive structures of the body take on the brunt of the load, greatly compromising spinal integrity and leading to people who walk like the elderly in their 30's.

Bodybuilding is more about true strength than powerlifting is.

^ while there is some truth to that, saying powerlifting isn't really about strength or power is a gross exaggeration. In powerlifitng, you are definitely using your legs when you squat, you're definitely using your chest when you bench, and you'r definitely using your back when you deadlift. The big difference is that powerlifters treat the "big 3" as full body movements, not just compound lifts that target a couple muscle groups. Saying a dude who can squat 1000+ lbs. raw isn't stong is absurd no matter how you slice it. Body building is not a strength based sport - its a physique/aesthetic based sport. Powerlifting is strictly about strength and power.

You can be a true master at leverages and technique with your lift, but if you aren't very strong, you're not going to be lifting the same weight as the pros.

That said, I've never seen "tiny" girls lift a lot of weight personally. The only girls in my powerlifting gym who put up decent weight are thick as fuck. The strongest girl in my gym I don't think is even as strong as I am, and I'm not very strong at all by power lifting standards. My total is sub 1000 lbs.

I agree with you. I was exaggerating to bust some myths. The thing is that in bodybuilding you always lift with perfect form and try to engage the muscle instead of using leverage and technique to get it up. Powerlifting and weightlifting is sort of like a martial art, where you try to compensate for your lack of strength by using technique to overcome the object; in martial arts it's a human adversary and in those sports it's an inanimate object.

That's why the myth about bodybuilders being weak is just that; a myth. You get good at what you do and simply being able to crank some heavy bench or deadlift does not mean that you'll be better than a bodybuilder at curling or pullovers if that's what they do for their size.

I believe almost all men should be training bodybuilding style; it's safer and leads to more balanced development and does not justify the glorification of a McDonalds diet. The only thing that shit has going for it is the myth about X being 'stronger'.

[John Michael Kane]

A little weight lifting is great for every human body, male and female. What is not great is encouraging women to bulk up like men and lose virtually every ounce of body fat. That's unhealthy and throws off a woman's hormones, not to mention the very masculine look which does her no wonders. Still, a girl who does a few light squats will have a nice rear end. As long as women don't go to excess with weight lifting (injuries or looking out right masculine), I'm okay with them lifting weights. Most girls prefer yoga, which is a great routine for them. Not into masculine looking women, but a toned woman is very attractive to me.

[Suits]