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Monogamy needs to be propped up in order to survive
12-16-2016, 01:09 AM
Quote: (12-15-2016 08:15 PM)TheMost Wrote:
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Read again what I wrote. After running the simulation a few years, there was no surplus of males. At any time. At age 35, every male got two 18 year old brides. That is just how things came out, I didn't force it.
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You know what they say about predictive modelling. Garbage in, garbage out.
What did your simulation tell you happened to the other half of the men?
I'm incredibly interested to know.
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Monogamy needs to be propped up in order to survive
12-16-2016, 04:34 AM
Quote: (12-16-2016 02:40 AM)TheMost Wrote:
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You might think it is unrealistic for 45% of births to be male; but when a man gets past the age of 40, he sires twice as many girls as boys. (35% of births) The simulation takes into account age of the father.
Well it turns out you might be absolutely right about a lack of excess males, and if so I'll withdraw my ridicule of your claims in that regard, but the kind of society you would have to build to reliably pair two young women with each 35 year old man would be outside of anything we could possibly recognise.
You would have to build it from the ground up, and the first hurdle you would come to was trying to repress the natural appetites of every man from puberty to their mid 30's.
Not even traditional polygamy comes close to this kind of scenario, and it's worth noting that not a single polygamous nation has come anywhere close to matching the efficiency of those that endorse singular male/female marriages.
The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
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Monogamy needs to be propped up in order to survive
12-16-2016, 10:04 AM
Quote: (12-14-2016 09:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:
This is an old study that was thoroughly debunked by someone (don't have the link but I remember reading it). It keeps popping up because it's great clickbait.
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/early/20...4.abstract
I wouldn't make any grand theories are random studies that pop up. Google "replication crisis" to see how most are bullshit.
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Monogamy needs to be propped up in order to survive
12-16-2016, 03:02 PM
The Visigoths smashed Rome while they were polygamous; once the Franks and Goths and Vandals were assimilated to the Roman system, and were forced into monogamy by the Church, then immediately after you start getting kings called "The Bastard". Meaning, even the kings were getting cuckolded, and doing nothing about it. Monogamy pushes the system too far. Every single stable monogamous society has a large contingent of prostitutes and unofficial mistresses. So the Beta males end up with the left overs in an even worse way than they do under polygamy; at least under polygamy you can get a virgin, or a widow who hasn't whored around. Having official wives is better for society; fewer fatherless men result. The Puritan lawyer "Martin Madan" documented this extensively in his book Thelyphthora.
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Monogamy needs to be propped up in order to survive
12-17-2016, 02:42 AM
Quote: (12-16-2016 03:02 PM)TheMost Wrote:
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I apologise for coming at you with the horns down, TheMost. We get influxes of new people here and I dare say the majority are full of crap. I have a kneejerk reaction to anything that sets off my BS meter when there are low posts and zero reps involved, though on instruction of Roosh we're supposed to take it easier on newcomers regardless.
Anyhow, while your theoretical views on polygamy might make sense on some level, it could never evolve from what we have now, as you've well indicated. Post collapse I could see it becoming something of a norm, if a serious societal collapse ever occurs, but that's what it would take. The complete tipping of the scales to masculine domination of the societal order.
Hope your future posts have the same thought and decorum. If so you'll do well here.
The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
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Monogamy needs to be propped up in order to survive
12-17-2016, 03:52 AM
Can't add or detract much from the statistical discussion as it is not my Forte but I would chime in a very important factor in the study of sexual behavior in all living things (man included), that is,
sexual dimorphism
Quote:Google search first definition Wrote:
distinct difference in size or appearance between the sexes of an animal in addition to the sexual organs themselves.
More specifically, it also studies the subtleness and ramifications of sexual and gender related behaviors.
Jared Diamond dedicates an extensive chapter to this subject and its impact on human society in his book "The third chimpanzee" .
In my own personal experience which doesn't amount to much and having so far survived an ongoing LTR I have made an interesting observation in the western European countries:
More "northern"-as in traditionally of harsher and/or colder environments-genetic configurations/cultures tend to have less pronounced dimorphism whereas the more southern - as in of warmer and/or more abundant environments- ones have it more pronounced and are coincidentally regarded as more promiscuous historically.
Just to cite a very quick example out of the hip :it used to be very typical of upper middle class italian men to have a "mantenutta" (more or less a sugar baby) as Catholicism forbade divorce.
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Monogamy needs to be propped up in order to survive
12-17-2016, 03:55 AM
^ My wife observed the same in South America. A man was considered strange if he wasn't cheating on his wife with at least one other woman.
Maybe Northerners just couldn't be fucked coming up with some bizarre explanation for why they had to trek dozens of miles through the snow once a week.
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Monogamy needs to be propped up in order to survive
12-17-2016, 06:25 AM
At some point we'll need to reckon with the fact that socially-impost monogamy is largely a European phenomenon that only arose naturally in Europe.
Prior to contact with Europe, multiple marriage was common across the Americas (North, South, Central, Caribbean), Africa, and most of Asia. Only in East Asia did we get anything approaching the socially imposed monogamy of Europe, and even then distinctions arose because of the widespread acceptance of official concubinage.
Europeans remain the only people to have organically developed a system of socially imposed monogamy in which all men, no matter how powerful, could take only one wife and in which all relations outside of that were officially taboo (read: no open concubinage of harems as seen in the east - mistresses must be kept on the low). Many did not impose as strict a penalty on out of wedlock births as Europeans either.
Were it not for European influence (specifically, European laws and religious customs) spreading to these places, they would all still be without the socially imposed monogamy we see taken for granted today.
This is an important point because, in my view, it goes to the likelihood of monogamy being successfully propped up among different people in different parts of the world. We mustn't forget that monogamy is not something that was common to all peoples - it originated largely in one place and has been enforced and spread primarily by individuals/cultures from that place. We can't assume that everyone else is willing or able to prop up socially imposed monogamy in the way it's originators and primary propagators have done.
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