[Steve McQueen]

WW2 documentary narrated by Laurence Olivier

Recently watched all 26 episodes of this, available online for free. You can watch episode 1 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3H0K0Afk20

Would highly recommend you all check it out

One thing I took away from this series is how much healthier society as a whole was on both sides, despite the war. Busted dudes with hot wives, who cried real tears for them recalling how they lost them, years after the fact. Not a tattoo or piercing in sight either.

You think of the average Japanese dude now as an effeminate wimp, back then those guys were fierce and merciless, but also cruel bastards I must say.

If I had a choice I'd prefer to live in a patriarchy during war, than what we currently live in at a time of peace.

At least back then a man was entitled to his God given right to a wife and children, nowadays less and less of us have that opportunity due to the 80/20 rule plus feminism run wild.

Anyway watch the first episode and I bet you will watch the next one

[Hypno]

1. this thread belongs in the Everything Else Forum.

2. This was an excellent series. the camera/technical values not up to today's standards but the editorial content is excellent.

3. believe it was produced by Thames Television, Brittain. Contains a lot of content that Americans don't know about.

4. I believe there was a separate series by the same producers that covered the war in the Pacific.

[Steve McQueen]

(12-09-2016 04:13 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

1. this thread belongs in the Everything Else Forum.

2. This was an excellent series. the camera/technical values not up to today's standards but the editorial content is excellent.

3. believe it was produced by Thames Television, Brittain. Contains a lot of content that Americans don't know about.

4. I believe there was a separate series by the same producers that covered the war in the Pacific.

Wow another series by same folks, thanks will def be checking it out.

This was broadcast in the US apparently but Im just taking that from Wikipedia, not always reliable.

Not sure how to move it to everything else, but am sure a mod will do that if needs be so apologies for that

[XPQ22]

(12-09-2016 03:43 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

One thing I took away from this series is how much healthier society as a whole was on both sides, despite the war. Busted dudes with hot wives, who cried real tears for them recalling how they lost them, years after the fact. Not a tattoo or piercing in sight either.

50 million people slaughtered, but society sure is healthy because like, nobody does body modification.

Quote:

You think of the average Japanese dude now as an effeminate wimp, back then those guys were fierce and merciless, but also cruel bastards I must say.

Yeah, I'm sure the Chinese and Koreans remember with fondness how manly they were.

There was little to be admired about Japan in its fascist period.

Quote:

If I had a choice I'd prefer to live in a patriarchy during war, than what we currently live in at a time of peace.

You're nuts if you think living in Southeast Asia or mainland Europe during WW2 would've been the slightest bit enjoyable.

[Hypno]

(12-09-2016 04:17 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

Wow another series by same folks, thanks will def be checking it out.

have been googling for this, can't find it. I def. remember seeing it on PBS in the U.S. as a kid.

World at War is from a brit perspective and therefore has an hour about Japan focussing on Burma.

There is a similar documentary series that focusses on America's island fighting in the Pacific. I can remember seeing Japanese hit with flame throwers, they showed this on TV. They also commented how the japanese would not surrender and would have grenades hidden on their bodies when surrendering. The americans would force them to strip to their underwear when surrendering. Sorry I can't find this, it aired in the 70s and early 80s. It might be Victory at Sea, which according to Wiki predated World at War by 20 years.

[Vicious]

Great series, too bad OP didn't watch it or you wouldn't be saying half the stuff you are about the most costly conflict in human history.

[Matsufubu]

"The most disadvantageous peace is better than the most just war" - Desiderius Erasmus

Yes, the series is excellent. Interviews with top ranking people who were actually there (it was filmed less than 30 years after the war ended), hearing stuff straight from the horses' mouths rather than having a historian's spin on it. Once you've watched the whole lot OP, you might not be so keen living in WW2. Utterly shocking stuff revealed in The World at War. Executing children, mass rapes, SS soldiers snatching babies from their Russian mothers' breasts and throwing them on a bonfire...I nearly wept to hear people's accounts of how utterly savage and dehumanising it all was.

[Uhondo]

This is a great series. Another one by BBC worth checking out is "BBC The death of Yugoslavia". Its up on you tube, and was used during the trials of the Yugoslavian war criminals by the ICTY.

[MongolianAbroad]

(12-09-2016 06:51 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(12-09-2016 03:43 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

If I had a choice I'd prefer to live in a patriarchy during war, than what we currently live in at a time of peace.

You're nuts if you think living in Southeast Asia or mainland Europe during WW2 would've been the slightest bit enjoyable.

Agreed, McQueen isn't thinking straight, however, imagine being one of the few able-bodied guys left behind in a town when most of the other able-bodied guys got shipped off to war?

That's not a bad spot to be in.

That's not a bad spot at all.

[Hypno]

(12-13-2016 03:49 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Great series, too bad OP didn't watch it or you wouldn't be saying half the stuff you are about the most costly conflict in human history.

QFT.

For Americans, this series is particularly good because it is from the Brit perspective. Instead of celebrating DDay and the Battle of the Bulge, it tells the story of the European theater, the background of the conflict, the action in multiple countries like Norway, Italy, Burma, etc. Its not a single arc to VE day, rather there are highs and lows along the way. Also, there is a lot about the Eastern front, which is largely ignored from the U.S. perspective. It also has a thorough discussion of the atrocities, failures, etc. which is something an American documentarian would likely ignore.

[Steve McQueen]

Ok Guys, it would have been horrible to live through in certain places, I hold my hands up on that, but I never said I would like to be in Berlin during the war. Some of the footage of the fighting on the japanese islands, guys with half a torso blown off, arms and legs missing... it was raw and gripping

Those Japs were crazy bastards, case in point

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

[Steve McQueen]

(12-13-2016 03:49 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Great series, too bad OP didn't watch it or you wouldn't be saying half the stuff you are about the most costly conflict in human history.

If I didnt watch it why would I recommend it, no need for virtue signalling here mate, were all entitled to our opinion. Mines just different to yours so rather than try and act aloof, maybe you could offer reasons why I wouldnt be saying the things I did and allow me to retort. Otherwise its the usual leftie I see here, all snark and no bite when it comes to the facts if you would care to argue them.

Most Americans were not affected by the war, sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me, no bombs dropped outside of pearl harbour, which was provoked by the US government if you choose to look it up.

Fair enough I probably got a little carried away, but in a world where men are being forced to their knees to get by, personally I would choose to go out on my feet as a man rather than a gelded wimp, which is what we are being forced to become in the pc culture were forced to endure

[Steve McQueen]

(12-13-2016 09:57 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(12-09-2016 06:51 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(12-09-2016 03:43 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

If I had a choice I'd prefer to live in a patriarchy during war, than what we currently live in at a time of peace.

You're nuts if you think living in Southeast Asia or mainland Europe during WW2 would've been the slightest bit enjoyable.

Agreed, McQueen isn't thinking straight, however, imagine being one of the few able-bodied guys left behind in a town when most of the other able-bodied guys got shipped off to war?

That's not a bad spot to be in.

That's not a bad spot at all.

My point exactly, you live in a patriarchy, got fine women everywhere and a shortage of able bodied men. A guy in his mid 30's in the US would have been in dreamland

[Steve McQueen]

(12-09-2016 06:51 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(12-09-2016 03:43 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

One thing I took away from this series is how much healthier society as a whole was on both sides, despite the war. Busted dudes with hot wives, who cried real tears for them recalling how they lost them, years after the fact. Not a tattoo or piercing in sight either.

50 million people slaughtered, but society sure is healthy because like, nobody does body modification.

Quote:

You think of the average Japanese dude now as an effeminate wimp, back then those guys were fierce and merciless, but also cruel bastards I must say.

Yeah, I'm sure the Chinese and Koreans remember with fondness how manly they were.

There was little to be admired about Japan in its fascist period.

Quote:

If I had a choice I'd prefer to live in a patriarchy during war, than what we currently live in at a time of peace.

You're nuts if you think living in Southeast Asia or mainland Europe during WW2 would've been the slightest bit enjoyable.

50 million people slaughtered, but society sure is healthy because like, nobody does body modification.

Yeah it was healthy, this is whats wrong today, we dont have wars, so the powers that be have soft kill implemented instead, where once you had large families and big wars, now you have feminism and no families. Thats no accident and why masculinity is being essentially outlawed in the west imo.

[b]Yeah, I'm sure the Chinese and Koreans remember with fondness how manly they were.

There was little to be admired about Japan in its fascist period.

On Chinese and Koreans, of course they dont, no more so than the Poles do the Germans or the Soviets. However you tell me, who would you have more respect for, a Jap from that era or the MGTOW freaks they have over there now, personally I would say the former.

You're nuts if you think living in Southeast Asia or mainland Europe during WW2 would've been the slightest bit enjoyable.

I never said Id like to live on the front lines, I said I'd prefer to live in that era and given a location choice it would be mainland USA. US gained most from the war, best thing ever happened US was WW2 from a political perspective.

[Steve McQueen]

(12-13-2016 04:28 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

"The most disadvantageous peace is better than the most just war" - Desiderius Erasmus

Yes, the series is excellent. Interviews with top ranking people who were actually there (it was filmed less than 30 years after the war ended), hearing stuff straight from the horses' mouths rather than having a historian's spin on it. Once you've watched the whole lot OP, you might not be so keen living in WW2. Utterly shocking stuff revealed in The World at War. Executing children, mass rapes, SS soldiers snatching babies from their Russian mothers' breasts and throwing them on a bonfire...I nearly wept to hear people's accounts of how utterly savage and dehumanising it all was.

I know about all the atrocities, thats not my attraction to living in society at that time, the Nazis were evil in the things they did, we can all agree on that

[Vicious]

(12-15-2016 06:02 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

Most Americans were not affected by the war,

So the appeal of the war was in not taking part in it?

Quote:

sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me, no bombs dropped outside of pearl harbour, which was provoked by the US government if you choose to look it up.

Please do show me where I can look this up.
The oil embargo on Japan was a provocation only if you choose to pretend that the invasion of a US colony (Phillipines) and the atrocities by Japan in China were of no consequence.

Quote:


Fair enough I probably got a little carried away, but in a world where men are being forced to their knees to get by, personally I would choose to go out on my feet as a man rather than a gelded wimp, which is what we are being forced to become in the pc culture were forced to endure

When are you signing up for the armed forces? Still places in Afghanistan that has troops stationed.

[XPQ22]

(12-15-2016 06:26 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

Yeah it was healthy, this is whats wrong today, we dont have wars, so the powers that be have soft kill implemented instead, where once you had large families and big wars, now you have feminism and no families. Thats no accident and why masculinity is being essentially outlawed in the west imo.

Here's the thing though: just like there are no girls who are 100% "good" or 100% "bad", there are no 100% "healthy" societies or 100% "decadent" societies.

Were there aspects of Western society in the 1940s and 1950s that were better for men? Sure, I won't contest that. Girls weren't such huge sluts, family structure was tighter, it was easier to find a good job and make a reliable income, it was less crowded and many things were inflation-adjusted cheaper than today, etc.

And also we were dropping atomic bombs, leveling entire cities, and sending thousands of young men off to kill other young men and die screaming for their mothers in some God-forsaken shithole. Young men killing other young men is not "good for men", at least not in any direct sense I'm able to contemplate.

The West today? Yeah, there are problems. But there are a lot of great things about it. Violent crime in the US has been declining for 40 years. There's never really been a safer time to be alive. Even though the healthcare system is kind of a mess, the care you can get when you need it is usually pretty good. And I could write multiple paragraphs about all the technological advantages, but we know all that so I won't waste your time. Unfortunately, I think part of the price for all that is that we're going to have some of the issues you mention. If we were somehow able to magically get this perfect patriarchal society you seem to wish, I think the advance of technology would immediately begin pushing it back the other way.

I do know that if one believes one can't be happy until feminism is banished from the face of the Earth, well, the problem is not feminism.

I won't claim to have the answers to how all men can be happy with the way things are. If I did, that would probably make me a politician. And I know that in this life consistent happiness is impossible anyway, so I try not to spend a lot of time fretting over it. It only makes sense to think about what would make me and the people around me I care about happy in the present moment. That's something I can control. Most things I can't.

Quote:

I never said Id like to live on the front lines, I said I'd prefer to live in that era and given a location choice it would be mainland USA. US gained most from the war, best thing ever happened US was WW2 from a political perspective.

It's a discredited idea that war brings even just net economic benefit, even to the countries that were the winners. Yeah, the US got some new tech and several conservative administrations out of WW2. We also got decades of thousands of nuclear-tipped ICBMs pointed up our ass, ready to wipe us off the face of the map at a moment's notice. It almost happened accidentally a few times - we came real close. Was that gamble really worth it for what we got? I'm not sure that it was.

In addition to a whole host of new proxy wars that killed nearly as many people over a longer time period than as the big one. For my part I think we would've ended up a lot better off if we'd just kicked back for the most part and let Stalin and Hitler annihilate themselves. Regarding the Holocaust, in the final accounting I'm not sure how many lives our involvement actually saved. The 6 million Jews and 6 million other "undesirables" who were killed is frankly likely to be a lowball estimate.

Every dollar put into funding a war is a dollar that could've been spent better on almost anything else.

[Steve McQueen]

A well thought out and well written response. Thank you for taking the time to write that, I enjoy a good debate. You make some valid points, a response to a few below.

It's a discredited idea that war brings even just net economic benefit, even to the countries that were the winners. Yeah, the US got some new tech and several conservative administrations out of WW2.

If it’s discredited, I’d like you to cite a source. WW2 ended the Great Depression and thrust the US economy into its most stable era ever up until the 1970s with Nixons decision to unpeg the dollar from silver. WW2 heralded the invention of the jet engine making global travel what it is today, that’s a net improvement for society on both fronts that lasted long after the end of WW2.

For my part I think we would've ended up a lot better off if we'd just kicked back for the most part and let Stalin and Hitler annihilate themselves

Disagree entirely, US would have been at the mercy of the victorious army, Hitler would have had the A bomb and Stalin would have had a strangle hold over the continent if either had won. I don’t see either of them calling it quits after they were victorious, it would have been your doom.

We also got decades of thousands of nuclear-tipped ICBMs pointed up our ass, ready to wipe us off the face of the map at a moment's notice. It almost happened accidentally a few times - we came real close.

Good point on the cold war, yes am aware of more than a couple of occassions things almost kicked off. Probably not worth it but was inevitable that it or something like it would be invented eventually, much like smart phones.

http://nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/...ar-war.htm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s...olina-1961

And I could write multiple paragraphs about all the technological advantages, but we know all that so I won't waste your time. Unfortunately, I think part of the price for all that is that we're going to have some of the issues you mention. If we were somehow able to magically get this perfect patriarchal society you seem to wish, I think the advance of technology would immediately begin pushing it back the other way.

With the above cold war we had MAD, a balance, on the tech side, we do not. The only real option is to not use it, dont feed the egos of the sub-standard women on dating apps but again we can agree male thirst is the root of all evil so I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

I personally see a balance being restored with the robot revolution and the very real possibility of having a robot girlfriend in the not too distant future. Who needs privileged Pattys fat ass and her issues when you can buy a nice obedient robot and who knows maybe have advanced models down the line that could actually bear you a child, its not outside the realms of possibility. We are men, we are the builders of society so some guys gonna invent it sooner or later, there is a very real need for this with the current SM imbalance. Would take away the reproductive monopoly and the sex monopoly with zero arguments to be made against it by the holier than though crowd as nobody gets hurt.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/...nd-7127554

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEzH40l-Dg8

Here's the thing though: just like there are no girls who are 100% "good" or 100% "bad", there are no 100% "healthy" societies or 100% "decadent" societies.

True and I agree, however water takes the shape of the container it fills and like children, if you don’t set boundaries for women then they will run rampant, the greater good is not on their radar at all

And also we were dropping atomic bombs, leveling entire cities, and sending thousands of young men off to kill other young men and die screaming for their mothers in some God-forsaken shithole. Young men killing other young men is not "good for men", at least not in any direct sense I'm able to contemplate.

Not good if you were the one sent to fight no, but wars acted as a safety valve on society numbers, it kept male thirst in check and fighting is a basic instinct for males, to protect whats ours and to best the man facing us to take the spoils, its hard wired into our DNA, why male competitive sports are so popular.

The West today? Yeah, there are problems. But there are a lot of great things about it. Violent crime in the US has been declining for 40 years. There's never really been a safer time to be alive.

Yes and it has made us soft. I would rather a more violent society with less government interference than a nanny state with an all encompassing surveillance and welfare programme that robs me of my privacy and right to self determination. Those who trade liberty for security deserve neither to paraphrase Benjamin Franklin.

I do know that if one believes one can't be happy until feminism is banished from the face of the Earth, well, the problem is not feminism.

I can be happy if we limit its influence and roll back misandry in the legal system, e.g. No fault divorce, I am realistic on this point although my ideal would be to see it consigned to the dustbin of history.

Every dollar put into funding a war is a dollar that could've been spent better on almost anything else.

An idealistic notion that says war is obsolete. We live under an elite that will pit us against each other to protect their place in society, it has always and will always be that way. I prefer to look at war like a volcanic eruption, it is necessary to both kill off the weak and soil the earth to breed new life in order for society to evolve.

[Steve McQueen]

(12-16-2016 07:49 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(12-15-2016 06:02 PM)Steve McQueen Wrote:  

Most Americans were not affected by the war,

[So the appeal of the war was in not taking part in it?

Quote:

sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me, no bombs dropped outside of pearl harbour, which was provoked by the US government if you choose to look it up.

Please do show me where I can look this up.
The oil embargo on Japan was a provocation only if you choose to pretend that the invasion of a US colony (Phillipines) and the atrocities by Japan in China were of no consequence.

Quote:


Fair enough I probably got a little carried away, but in a world where men are being forced to their knees to get by, personally I would choose to go out on my feet as a man rather than a gelded wimp, which is what we are being forced to become in the pc culture were forced to endure

When are you signing up for the armed forces? Still places in Afghanistan that has troops stationed.

So the appeal of the war was in not taking part in it?

Precisely, every cloud has a silver lining. It would have been a great time to be alive if you were not actively involved in the armed forces. Even a passive role at army HQ would have been a sweet life.

Please do show me where I can look this up.

Heres a good article on the subject:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/hi...dr-was-not

When are you signing up for the armed forces? Still places in Afghanistan that has troops stationed.

I’m not, however if I was alive then, and of fighting age, I would have signed up, for me it was the last good war, I would have felt like a hero fighting the Nazis and Western society at that time was worth defending. Nowadays…. not so much

I ask any young man facing a draft in a major conflict, who are you fighting to defend or indeed what?

A non existent family, a high school sweet heart that friend zoned you in the hopes George Clooney is going to come calling, a justice system that will enslave you for life if you put a foot wrong, a bunch of slutty women living of the benefits of the new “equal” society we find ourselves in, where in reality some are more equal than others.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/all-ani...han-others