[Paracelsus]

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/...1e8a622525

Quote:

THE magic pills used to treat some people suffering severe mental illness are also killing them, according to experts.

Psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, medical researchers and other professionals from around the country have this week gathered at the annual Society for Mental Health Research Conference in Sydney.

Among the issues broached Wednesday was a life expectancy gap between people with and without mental illness.

St Vincents Hospital endocrinologist and clinical researcher, Professor Katherine Samaras, said there was a “20-year survival shortfall” and the gap was not “getting any closer to being zero”.

She attributed the discrepancy in part to antipsychotics and antidepressants that have previously been linked to weight gain and subsequent physical conditions including diabetes, cancer and hypertension.

In a session called ‘Can we stop killing our patients?’ Prof Samaras said there were many silent diseases “that occur in severe mental illness”.

“It’s the diabetes, the heart disease, the hypertension and cancer that occur on average two decades earlier than they would occur in people who didn’t have severe mental illness,” Prof. Samaras said.

“For women it starts very, very early with disturbances in menstrual cycle.”

Prof. Samaras said some antidepressants were known to cause patients to gain “seven per cent of their body weight within 12 months ... and double the risk of diabetes ... which is guaranteed to bring on metabolic disturbances”.

She said a “slow way (to) ... kill a patient” was to “just add sweetener”.
“It’s probably very easy to kill a patient,” she said.

“Many of us in physical health know how quickly and easily that can happen.
“Weight gain occurs because we’re not intervening with interventions that we now know work.”

She said Clozapine therapy — effectively used to treat people with schizophrenia and Parkinson’s disease — was associated “not only with rapid increases in weight but the greatest risk for incident premature diabetes”.

Clozapine has been effective in the treatment of patients with schizophrenia who have proven resistant to other drugs, experts said.

But according to the medical researchers, 68 per cent of users are at extreme risk of developing type two diabetes over the next five years.

Psychiatrist Dan Siskind said he prescribed Clozapine to a patient suffering schizophrenia because it was the only drug available that would work on him but while “he’s not tormented anymore, he’s morbidly obese and has diabetes”.

“I am failing him,” Dr Siskind said.

“The people who are on Clozapine ... my patients tell me they are not full. One patient eats a casserole in one sitting. They crave fatty foods and sugar foods.”

Psychiatrist Dr Julia Lappin, of the University of New South Wales School of Psychiatry, said premature death among people with severe mental illness was the “scandal of our generation”.

“There’s a mortality gap that continues to grow,” Dr Lappin said. “We really need to think about what we’re going to do about reducing the mortality gap for our population and assisting them with domestic health care.”

Dr Lappin said people with severe mental illness were dying younger “largely due to very high rates of cardiometabolic risk factors: they smoke much more than the general population; they’re more obese; their blood pressure’s higher; they have diabetes and extraordinarily high rates of metabolic syndrome”.

“In addition they have very sedentary lifestyles and poor nutrition,” she said.
She said it was possible for appropriate dietary and exercise interventions to combat the problem.

NSW Minister for mental health and medical research Pru Goward said mental illness was “an enormous burden on society and the economy”.

“You don’t get your fair whack of funding,” she told the conference.
“No longer is a mental illness diagnosis the end of the road. It’s the beginning of another journey: The journey to recovery with the right support and care.
“We need to incorporate mental health research into everything we do.
“Good mental health is everything.”

Ms Goward said the NSW government had invested $1.8 billion in mental health, including “new models of care ... like recovery”, this year.

First the revelation that Ritalin fucks a kid's head up, now this.

This is an Australian conference, of course, but to have the pill-pushers themselves start protesting in public that they're killing people is very telling.

It would be very interesting to see if drugs which treat depression have this sort of effect as well. Recall, gentlemen, that one in four women in the US is said to be suffering from a mental disorder, and I'd guess a damn high proportion of that number are medicated. Time and again we see Fat Acceptance Advocates propounding utterly insane ideas about health. The obesity epidemic in women is not solely the work of antidepressants and antipsychotics, certainly -- thank the mind war conducted by the food industry against the West for that -- but this is pretty potent evidence that when it comes to the brain, these fuckwits don't know what they're doing.

Notice the sedentary lifestyle element? Remember how it's common knowledge in the manosphere that physical exercise releases endorphins, makes you literally feel better? New proposition for doctors: rather than stick a pill down the throat of every bitch you see claiming to suffer from depression, maybe you should be asking "Hoe, do you even lift?"

[LeoneVolpe]

   

[Thersites]

(12-08-2016 08:34 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

It would be very interesting to see if drugs which treat depression have this sort of effect as well. Recall, gentlemen, that one in four women in the US is said to be suffering from a mental disorder, and I'd guess a damn high proportion of that number are medicated. Time and again we see Fat Acceptance Advocates propounding utterly insane ideas about health. The obesity epidemic in women is not solely the work of antidepressants and antipsychotics, certainly -- thank the mind war conducted by the food industry against the West for that -- but this is pretty potent evidence that when it comes to the brain, these fuckwits don't know what they're doing.

Notice the sedentary lifestyle element? Remember how it's common knowledge in the manosphere that physical exercise releases endorphins, makes you literally feel better? New proposition for doctors: rather than stick a pill down the throat of every bitch you see claiming to suffer from depression, maybe you should be asking "Hoe, do you even lift?"

In Medicine, we playing the game biochemical manipulation in order to help the person in question. The tradeoff of this manipulation is side effects for person. In terms of US medicine, Clozapine a is last resort medication. You must gone through every antipsychotics available before being put on that. These people who have to take clozapine are neurology, a fucking mess. You may lose couple of years of your life with clozapine in exchange of being functional human being. Depending on how functional a person is on medication, a man or women can avoid the metabolic consequence of this medication by diet and exercise. Now lets talk about real issue, the basic bitches that are popping pills for all their problems.

The most common and tolerable medication used for depression, anxiety, and anxiety related disorders is selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). One of the downside of this medication is weight gain. The problem with SSRIs is by themselves, they are not as effective to treatment. SSRIs combined with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) produced the best outcomes of treating depression. In terms of depression for example, SSRI help with learning the coping mechanisms and identifying the of abnormal thought patterns that person learns in CBT. The problem we see with a lot of females today is take the pill and nothing else.

[Conscious Pirate]

Quote:

First the revelation that Ritalin fucks a kid's head up, now this.

Para, what's the source on this?

I ask as one the first kids diagnosed with "ADD" (as opposed to ADHD on "the spectrum") back in the 80's in Australia by one Dr Gordon Serfontein (look that charlatan up). I use quotation marks to indicate & emphasise my scepticism for all of this bullshit, from personal experience.

And they wonder why I turned out to be a drug addict?

By way of explanation, I had such a tolerance to amphetamines by the time I was 20 that on my first ecstasy experience, I gobbled 3 blue butterflies in an 8 hr period at DCM on Oxford St (& this was back in the 90's, mind you - the drugs were strong back then) 12 months later I was getting through 8 in the same period. But I digress.

I was first tested on Ritalin & then, Dexamphetamine which I was prescribed. (which I rarely hear talked about). At one point I was on a course of taking up to 8 pills a day. 2 at brekky. 2 at recess. 2 at lunch. 2 when home from school. Pharma pure speed... Let's just say, I didn't get much sleep past 9 yrs old. But I ended up making a killing on them after I worked out the problem & began sorting out mates on the weekends & at exam time

The mental illness/drug racket is a fucking disgrace

[Paracelsus]

(12-09-2016 02:50 AM)Conscious Pirate Wrote:  

Quote:

First the revelation that Ritalin fucks a kid's head up, now this.

Para, what's the source on this?

Not really a source, more a general theme of articles and hearsay over the past few years that maybe they overprescribed ADHD medication to boys and overdiagnosed ADHD generally. Ritalin (and all ADHD medications) are powerful drugs to give to a developing brain.

[Conscious Pirate]

(12-08-2016 09:10 PM)Thersites Wrote:  

(12-08-2016 08:34 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

It would be very interesting to see if drugs which treat depression have this sort of effect as well. Recall, gentlemen, that one in four women in the US is said to be suffering from a mental disorder, and I'd guess a damn high proportion of that number are medicated. Time and again we see Fat Acceptance Advocates propounding utterly insane ideas about health. The obesity epidemic in women is not solely the work of antidepressants and antipsychotics, certainly -- thank the mind war conducted by the food industry against the West for that -- but this is pretty potent evidence that when it comes to the brain, these fuckwits don't know what they're doing.

Notice the sedentary lifestyle element? Remember how it's common knowledge in the manosphere that physical exercise releases endorphins, makes you literally feel better? New proposition for doctors: rather than stick a pill down the throat of every bitch you see claiming to suffer from depression, maybe you should be asking "Hoe, do you even lift?"

...Now lets talk about real issue, the basic bitches that are popping pills for all their problems.

The most common and tolerable medication used for depression, anxiety, and anxiety related disorders is selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). One of the downside of this medication is weight gain.

Exhibit A: Before SSRIs (still crazy tho)


Exhibit B: Afters SSRIs (crazier & closer to death, obviously)

[The Beast1]

Diet diet diet.

The only reason the crazies die young are because of their diets. They eat shitty food and they don't exercise. Classic correlation does not mean causation.

They should be greatful we have the technology to medicate the anxiety they feel for their laziness and mediocre lives.

Ever see a bodybuilding (roids or not) that has to take SSRIs or even antipsychotics? No, me neither.

[iknowexactly]

As someone who works in mental health, I know it is true many/most anti-psychotic meds really tend to cause weight gain.
Psychiatrists know that after 8 years of med school and residency.

What you may not see or hear about is the approximate 10% suicide rate among schizophrenics.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951591/

Imagine what suffering many of the NON-suicides go through with that disease. If you get 50 years of tolerable life rather than 60 years of horrible, paranoid agony, it may be well worth it.

I've seen people who scream all day, tortured by their delusions. Severe and persistent mental illness can truly be like hell.

There are trade-offs in the treatment of someone with such a serious disease. There's no solution that provides a rosy outcome.

[The Beast1]

(12-09-2016 04:18 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Diet diet diet.

The only reason the crazies die young are because of their diets. They eat shitty food and they don't exercise. Classic correlation does not mean causation.

They should be greatful we have the technology to medicate the anxiety they feel for their laziness and mediocre lives.

Ever see a bodybuilding (roids or not) that has to take SSRIs or even antipsychotics? No, me neither.

I'm outside the hour of time I have to amend this, but i wanted to retract and amend my previous statement.

In my youth i've volunteered and worked closely with all sorts of people suffering from mental disorders. I know there are certain individuals who suffer from mental illnesses they were born with. Some more severe than other.

My comment was more directed at the "drug away my problems" types of people and not those with bonafide mental illnesses they didn't ask or want. We all know who they are (ex: image of landwhale above).

[Thersites]

(12-09-2016 07:34 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

In my youth i've volunteered and worked closely with all sorts of people suffering from mental disorders. I know there are certain individuals who suffer from mental illnesses they were born with. Some more severe than other.

My comment was more directed at the "drug away my problems" types of people and not those with bonafide mental illnesses they didn't ask or want. We all know who they are (ex: image of landwhale above).

Lot of mental illness is the game of genetic lottery and environment. For example, Asian population there is subset having a short allele receptor for serotonin that makes them prone to depression in Western Society. In Asian society with strong family and community, these people with the receptor do not suffer from depression. The short allele receptor makes a person more sensitive to community interaction and more focus on support his community. These the type of people you want to have in your tribe since they will help keep you alive.

The landwhales are people who refuse or did not learn coping mechanisms or behaviors to survive in the "harsh" modern world. These are the people that I want to slowly strangle to death for their mockery of people with actual mental problems.

People with mental illness do not want to have it. They don't want to be special, just normal person who can handle life. From my own fight with depression, its taxing to hold frame while you mind is set on default to focus on negative and not the positives in life.

[PUA_Rachacha]

For someone who has had high anxiety and recurrent depressive episodes for over 20 years, mental disease is no joke. I've been adamant about eschewing prescription drugs and thus have a very clean diet, workout four days a week (aerobic and anaerobic), meditate daily, have a good job, and am married. I've been going to a therapist weekly for almost two years. While I've been able to control my anxiety for the most part now, my depression still rears its ugly head.

I'm finally going to break down and start taking drugs. I've resisted it forever, but life is passing me by, and for all that I've accomplished and what I have now, I don't really enjoy it. I derive no pleasure from it. Food tastes bland to me now. I get no buzz from alcohol. I don't want to see my friends anymore. I drive in the car now w/o the radio. I no longer desire sex. I don't want to spend my money, just hoard it and do nothing.

You guys could spit out a million reasons why I should change this or that. If only you quit your job, move somewhere else, get new friends, eat cleaner and work-out harder, get off the internet, a new hobby, etc. ad nauseam. The thing is I've done most of these things. It doesn't matter, I come back to my depression.

While there are many people out there who are lazy and maybe could relieve their symptoms if only they dropped the fork and picked up the dumbbell, there are generally people who are chemically out-of-balance. They can suffer through life, or they can reap some of the benefits of modern medicine.

What I'm trying to say is that it's not all black-and-white, gentlemen. There are truly people who suffer while trying to do everything they can w/o medication. I guess I'm one of those people and am finally throwing in the towel. My fear is: what if there drugs don't work? I can still go on living, but it's a joyless experience.

[LionHound]

Anyone know which women in the US are prescribed medications the least? Seems like useful info for someone looking for a wife.

[LionHound]

(12-09-2016 01:35 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  

For someone who has had high anxiety and recurrent depressive episodes for over 20 years, mental disease is no joke. I've been adamant about eschewing prescription drugs and thus have a very clean diet, workout four days a week (aerobic and anaerobic), meditate daily, have a good job, and am married. I've been going to a therapist weekly for almost two years. While I've been able to control my anxiety for the most part now, my depression still rears its ugly head.

I'm finally going to break down and start taking drugs. I've resisted it forever, but life is passing me by, and for all that I've accomplished and what I have now, I don't really enjoy it. I derive no pleasure from it. Food tastes bland to me now. I get no buzz from alcohol. I don't want to see my friends anymore. I drive in the car now w/o the radio. I no longer desire sex. I don't want to spend my money, just hoard it and do nothing.

You guys could spit out a million reasons why I should change this or that. If only you quit your job, move somewhere else, get new friends, eat cleaner and work-out harder, get off the internet, a new hobby, etc. ad nauseam. The thing is I've done most of these things. It doesn't matter, I come back to my depression.

While there are many people out there who are lazy and maybe could relieve their symptoms if only they dropped the fork and picked up the dumbbell, there are generally people who are chemically out-of-balance. They can suffer through life, or they can reap some of the benefits of modern medicine.

What I'm trying to say is that it's not all black-and-white, gentlemen. There are truly people who suffer while trying to do everything they can w/o medication. I guess I'm one of those people and am finally throwing in the towel. My fear is: what if there drugs don't work? I can still go on living, but it's a joyless experience.

Are you religious? If not, consider studying the bible and going to church every so often. Try to find a more laid back church with happy non-judgmental types. And pray to God for strength and happiness so that you can continue to be there for others and be a positive influence in their lives. Volunteer. It has helped me tremendously.

[UlteriorMotive]

(12-09-2016 04:17 PM)LionHound Wrote:  

(12-09-2016 01:35 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  

snip

Are you religious? If not, consider studying the bible and going to church every so often.

I'm gonna agree with LionHound on this one, my mother suffers from Schizophrenia.

She's been on countless medications and the only thing that has made any real significant difference to her keep episodes to a minimum (without bad side effects) in the last few years is going to the local church.

[Kurgan]

What about other drugs like fluoxetine and risperdone?

[Thersites]

(12-09-2016 01:35 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  

For someone who has had high anxiety and recurrent depressive episodes for over 20 years, mental disease is no joke. I've been adamant about eschewing prescription drugs and thus have a very clean diet, workout four days a week (aerobic and anaerobic), meditate daily, have a good job, and am married. I've been going to a therapist weekly for almost two years. While I've been able to control my anxiety for the most part now, my depression still rears its ugly head.

Please go psychiatrist. You have moderate to serve case of depression. Meds work best with people with that type of depression

(12-10-2016 12:13 PM)Kurgan Wrote:  

What about other drugs like fluoxetine and risperdone?

Fluoxetine is SSRI. Risperdone is atypical psychotic. In terms of the article, risperdone is in the same class of medication as colzapine. You will suffer the same side effects.

[Kurgan]

Thanks thersites! I was curious about those medications.

[CynicalContrarian]

Then there's the idea which indicates anti-depressant's don't get rid of suicidal tendencies.
Rather, the SSRI's merely suppress the urge.

So once Wristy McSlits get's off the medication, all those suicidal tendencies come flooding back in one big dose.
Resulting in a higher than likely chance of suicidal... "success"...
No cries for attention at that point.

[Kurgan]

(12-12-2016 12:10 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

Then there's the idea which indicates anti-depressant's don't get rid of suicidal tendencies.
Rather, the SSRI's merely suppress the urge.

So once Wristy McSlits get's off the medication, all those suicidal tendencies come flooding back in one big dose.
Resulting in a higher than likely chance of suicidal... "success"...
No cries for attention at that point.

Can there ever truly be a way to get off medications? I've been on it for 13 years when I tried cold turkey twice, I lost focus and broke down.

[iknowexactly]

(12-18-2016 12:01 AM)Kurgan Wrote:  

(12-12-2016 12:10 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

Then there's the idea which indicates anti-depressant's don't get rid of suicidal tendencies.
Rather, the SSRI's merely suppress the urge.

So once Wristy McSlits get's off the medication, all those suicidal tendencies come flooding back in one big dose.
Resulting in a higher than likely chance of suicidal... "success"...
No cries for attention at that point.

Can there ever truly be a way to get off medications? I've been on it for 13 years when I tried cold turkey twice, I lost focus and broke down.

There's no one answer. Every person's innate genetics are different, and as they go through life their life situations vary, and so the potential benefit from drugs. (Or the benefits of other interventions like exercise, therapy, having a girlfriend/wife to sleep with, getting rid of a girlfriend or wife you hate, nutrition, abstinence from alcohol/speed/desk job)

Life is infinitely complex. That's why good doctors ask a lot of questions to ascertain your situation and history.

[dain_bramage]

I've seen some things and some stuff. Been on one kind of pysch med or another since 2007. There's no escaping it once you have a diagnosis like Schizophrenia or Bipolar. If you stop taking the medications you are likely to be thrown into the psych ward. You take the pills or you don't leave. The weight gain is there. People get addicted to a lot of junk food and eating in general as a means of coping. It can take years to get to the point of acceptance if you're bipolar or whatnot and food is used a crutch.

It is possible to lose the weight with a lot of determination and exercise. Its difficult to even get out of bed on some days and the lack of energy and motivation to do much of anything is a major factor. Not impossible. Just hard work.

I think an issue with the mentally ill crowd is finding some kind of purpose. Being on drugs indefintely can make that a horribly difficult process.