[stefpdt]

No, I didn't just finish reading Gorilla Mindset.

I've actually recognized for years that this forum a lot of ambitious guys with a real message to share, so I don't know of a better place to bring up this discussion.

(I stopped reading most business forums because the entrepreneurship scene is too spergy).

I'm also positive that at least some of you guys have contemplated running your own business with your face, identity, and personal brand being the driving force behind it all.

So, I'm bringing all of this up because I find myself constantly going back and forth whether I should "go public" with my personal brand at some point, and be open about associating my image with the message that I wanna share.

The general message that I want to share revolves around health and wellness truths, and providing people with information that's actually beneficial. No bullshit involved.

But, it's still a tough decision because life is complicated, and there are major pros and cons to sharing a message with the masses and showing the world who you are.

It definitely takes balls, and I applaud guys like Roosh and Cernovich for putting themselves out there to help hundreds of thousands of people.

Here are the pros and cons that I've been able to come up with so far when it comes to going mass market public with your image:

--Cons--

Some level of risk

I want absolutely nothing to do with acquiring 'internet fame'. But I feel like it's almost an inevitability if you want to accomplish truly big things.

I remember reading a story on James Altucher's blog about how he's dealt with people who have basically stalked him outside his home.

I'm sure Roosh has had similar experiences with weirdos who have spotted him in public.

Must deal with regular people

Trolls don't bother me. But, people who like to waste time disgust me. Part of me wants to avoid blue pill people for the rest of eternity. But the other part of me knows that this is difficult to pull off unless you become an internet marketer (I hate internet marketing, but I appreciate some internet marketing strategies for building brands).

Less personal freedom

Living a "high profile" lifestyle means that you usually have to become more careful about your words and actions because they have a greater impact than before.

Can't be a g manifesto

This guy's twitter feed is a dream for plenty of you guys. It's OK to admit that. I don't care whether he's real or fake. The lifestyle that he presents is very feasible (make 7 figures a year, bang sluts, and maintain a low profile). But, my issue with his persona is that there may be a limit to how hard you can pimp it in life without revealing your identity and going BIG with a message, business or personal brand.

--Pros--

Associating your business' brand with your identity can practically eliminate competition

From what I can tell, most guys on RVF are cool as fuck, and would easily be able to create a popular website, media channel, brand etc. Putting your image out there and running game on the masses can basically crush your competitors who most likely still operate their business with the nice guy shtick.

Gain social proof

Becoming a 'leader of men' is a little known trick for gaining massive social proof. I think it taps into some primal biological traits from back when AMOGs used to lead their tribes. This territory comes with power and influence etc. etc.

Financial rewards

I'd be lying if I said that the financial rewards of building a public brand aren't appealing. You basically wouldn't have to worry about money if your brand makes it 'big', because the act of spilling helpful truths and putting your image on the line can usually become a high-ROI activity. People are attracted to raw and vulnerable truths, and money eventually follows after a lot of hard work.

It's the more aggressive approach to life

I think that people may go through a period of unhappiness when they first make themselves vulnerable and share a truthful message with the world. But, they **probably** ultimately die happier knowing that they gave life their all and lived courageously. I still don't know if this is right, but it's my gut instinct.

Here are some final questions I have that might help to spark conversation:

• Are there any good books or articles about this topic?
• Can @Roosh share any perspective on this?
• Who else shares the same curse that I do (obsessive drive to make the most of the limited life that we have)? I know I'm not alone on here...
• How do YOU define the ideal lifestyle?
  

For many people, I realize that living a low-key lifestyle and doing awesome shit is still very possible. And that's completely OK.

But I just hope to have an open conversation about all of this.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[Periphrasis]

I've been thinking about this a lot. I think it takes quite a strong mind to do it without letting your values get compromised, without selling out, without letting the social pressure get to you, and so forth.

I think it would still be difficult even if the subject was mild and non-controversial, like cooking or language learning. But taking the leap into showing your face while talking about pickup, feminism, and things like that... That's some serious shit. It's a major life decision that you may not be able to take back.

One consideration is that it's a lot easier to do this if you can maintain a normal social life that's separate from your online persona. Some of the most straightforward people I've run into online produce their content in English but seem to have a rather normal social life going on in a different language in a non-Western country. That way even if they spark hatred and massive amounts of social backlash by their comments, they can just close their laptop and suddenly their life is totally normal. Unless they get ridiculously famous, none of their online activities will be noticed in places like Japan or Korea.

I see that you're interested specifically in talking about health and wellness, but since you're posting on this forum I imagine you'll want to throw out some red-pill truths here and there as well.

[stefpdt]

Happy to hear someone else thinks about this.

You're right that it's a difficult decision even with mild topics because whatever you do publicly becomes part of your public brand forever. I think this can be a good thing if it's done carefully.

You also bring up an interesting point about separating your brand from your personal social life. That's a huge perk of doing business online/independently that I didn't really think about. At the end of the day, most people are just concerned with themselves and their own lives, so I do agree that it should be relatively easy to 'blend in' somewhere like Korea or Brazil if needed (maybe to build a second lifestyle).

Ya I'm into health and wellness but I'm also big on keeping it real because that's literally how you differentiate yourself in my niche (so much scammy nonsense out there). I also think that as mainstream media continues to die out, more people will search for truths in many other areas of life (going far beyond my health and wellness niche). Lots of opportunity arising.

[Ice]

My 2 cents:

I've built a personal brand for myself with my real name - been at for about 5 years. It's in a pretty "safe" field though - so it's not a controversial topic like red pill / PUA etc.

I have built my brand through publishing articles online and in print. As a result, I have been quoted & interviewed in magazines and been invited to speak at conferences etc. This of course has helped me to further establish myself & my brand. It also helped me to get clients.

I personally think if you're really serious about a topic, you need to show your face and really stand behind your message to be taken seriously. But as was already mentioned above, if your topic is pickup or red pill, I would really think about it long & hard if you really want to go all in & dedicate yourself to it long term. If it's just a hobby, it's completely fine to do it anonymously. But if you want to build a business, sell a product & get clients, I think you will need to show your face & your real name. As you mentioned yourself, there is a limit to what you can achieve as an anonymous person.

I think it's also better from a psychological standpoint - I mean, if you're really interested in a topic and your life revolves around it, why not just stand behind it and be open about it? (assuming that it's a non-controversial topic). I think this will make you more confident in your endeavour.

Just one word of caution: Even if your topic is non-controversial and you achieve a certain level of success, it might become harder to get employment. Because a.) some people will feel threatened by you & your success and won't want to have you in their office as competition b.) employers might think that you don't fit in there simply because most people in an office environment don't have a public persona, so employers might prefer some boring average office drone instead c.) some might think that you're overqualified for the job since you have a successful public profile, and d.) some simply might be jealous and actively work against you.

But it is what it is - either you're a sheep and don't try to achieve anything special and lead a boring average life, or you try to do it your own way and get successful with your own thing, but then invariably you will have do deal with haters and jealous people.

[stefpdt]

Wow I appreciate the insightful comment. That really helps a lot.

The psychological standpoint you mentioned is another interesting point that I missed. I can absolutely envision how being open about your brand can add a lot of confidence to your life. It's like you no longer have anything to hide, and you're just being 100% congruent.

I appreciate the cautionary advice too. I definitely see how having a public brand can make you unemployable. I actually view that as a perk since I love being self-employed.

Your comment leads me closer to believing that going public is worth it - if your life basically already revolves around the topic/brand that you want to share.

[Off The Reservation]

Pm sent

[Carmichael Reid]

I think it's very hard to be successful and not be some sort of celebrity/authority in your field. Celebrities understand one secret to commanding top dollar: "It's not what you do, but who you are." I think Roosh and Cerno are the guys that worked hard and put in their dues and got recognized for it.

Being polarizing is what celebrities dream of. Having some sort of "Shock Value" is a requirement, but what literally separates the Men from the boys, is the Men, actually believe in what they say and do.

Read a book called Impossible to Ignore.
But above all this, I would look into Public Speaking, there is probably a Toastmasters near you.

Keep your reputation clean as possible and Keep Congruent. People will dig into your past, as if you are not noticing in the Election.

Look into writing a book in your field. It is the Ultimate Business Card. There's a book called "Book the Business" by Adam Witty and Dan Kennedy

You have to start at the bottom, you'll meet all types of people. Consider this a test. Because they are the Status Quo, they are going to turn you down because you think you're better than them. Becoming a public figure is quite political. Personally I do not like Cerno's style, but I respect it.

Develop and practice your own style everyday. Steal from other grandmaster persuaders.

PS: Pick a niche that is narrow and bland. I made this mistake early trying to get into Film. Do I need to say more?

[stefpdt]

^^Completely agree with everything you've said.

I feel like if I go public with a brand, then I will need to go 'all in' with it, and commit to becoming an authority in the space.

I don't like to half-ass things, so I completely agree that you have to become obsessed with winning to even have a shot at going big in an industry.

Just checked out both of your book recommendations, and they're legit. I just ordered them both.

This bit sold me on the Book The Business...

"Being introduced as a book author (not a salesman) and introducing yourself with a book (not a brochure) creates interest in place of resistance."

This is so true.

[stefpdt]

Just stumbled across this quality article by Derek Sivers

Source: https://sivers.org/why

Quote:

The most important thing in life is to know why you are doing what you’re doing.

Most people don’t know. They just go with the flow.

Social norms are really powerful. The inputs that influence you are really powerful. A great video, talk, or book can convince you that you should be acting and thinking like that.

But the worst thing in life would be a death-bed regret that you’ve spent your life pursuing what someone said you should want, instead of what you really want.

For example, if you really want to make a lot of money, you need to admit that.

If you really want to be famous, you need to pursue that.

If you really want freedom and no responsibilities, or to learn as much as possible, or whatever else, you need to realize it and embrace it.

But whatever you decide, you need to optimize for that, and be willing to let go of the others.

You can’t diffuse your energy, trying to do a little bit of everything, or you’ll always be in conflict with yourself.

For example, one way to make money is to take on a lot of responsibility, which means letting go of some freedoms.

One way to get famous is to let others make more money, while you take the spotlight.

I learned this living in Los Angeles, when I was friends with some famous Hollywood actors, and realized they’re not as rich as you’d think. The richest people in Hollywood are the ones you’ve never heard of, because they’ve optimized their career for money. They know others are willing to take less money in return for more fame, so they profit from the other side of that deal.

Maybe the most important thing to you is learning, or creating, or giving. Maybe it's how many people's lives you can influence. Maybe it's how deeply you can influence just a few people's lives.

Once you realize it and admit it, you need to pursue it.

Like if you want freedom, then you own a business but delegate all the work. You won’t be learning or creating or giving as much as you could with a different strategy, but that’s OK. You know freedom is what you’re after.

Sometimes your best strategy is counter-intuitive. Like if you have a high paying job, but realize that charitable giving is what matters most to you, then the best strategy is not to quit your job and go hang mosquito nets in Africa, but actually to keep your job and make as much money as you can, while spending it on hiring hundreds of people in Africa to hang thousands of mosquito nets. (Unless your goal is more about looking charitable, instead of actually being charitable. Then admit that to yourself, too.)

But whatever you choose, brace yourself, because people are always going to tell you you’re wrong.

That’s why you need know why you're doing what you're doing. Know it in advance. Use it as your compass and optimize your life around it. Let the other goals be secondary.

So when those decision moments come, you can choose the value that you already know matters most to you.

[Carmichael Reid]

(10-02-2016 04:52 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  

^^Completely agree with everything you've said.

I feel like if I go public with a brand, then I will need to go 'all in' with it, and commit to becoming an authority in the space.

I don't like to half-ass things, so I completely agree that you have to become obsessed with winning to even have a shot at going big in an industry.

Just checked out both of your book recommendations, and they're legit. I just ordered them both.

This bit sold me on the Book The Business...

"Being introduced as a book author (not a salesman) and introducing yourself with a book (not a brochure) creates interest in place of resistance."

This is so true.

You gotta realize that every moment you walk outside your house, you are 'going public with your brand.' This is a concept shared both in Game and Branding.

Know thyself.

Dig deep to find out who you really are.

Being anxious is fine. Being scared takes rigorous work and practice to be prepared and execute.
I found making a total ass of myself and owning it worked. It just didn't bother me. It's like Jerry Seinfeld going to dump hole in the ground towns to test his material
before an HBO special... Fail where you can hide it, but learn immensely from it. Because the same mistake in Macro is just an exaggerated mistake in Micro. <-- That's a keeper.

I like the poker axiom:

You gotta give action to get action. (Trump is playing Clinton like a fiddle with this concept)

I liked that post you shared. Keep in mind that the courage to be unique and consistently delivering on uniqueness will set you apart. Seduction by Robert Greene is good.
You will be humiliated and embarrassed if you are trying to be different from the crowd.

There is absolutely zero money in being the same.

Story by Robert McKee is good.

Acting classes would be a strong move. But not necessary.

All the best.

[Peregrine]

Remember, Cernovich wrote anonymously for years before going public. Roosh went public early because he had no choice - DC Bachelor was outed and he decided to go all in (which I respect).

I know your topic is probably not as controversial as either of theirs, but be careful. Personally, I value my privacy way too much to become well known to average people.

[Demandred]

Do keep in mind that if you go down the personal brand route, it'll be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to sell your business down the line.

Sure, you might be passionate about it right now and you can't imagine ever selling it, but people change, marketplaces change and you might be in a position later in your life where you want to sell your business and pocket the cash. If you are your business (guru, writer, information marketing, etc.) it's almost impossible to do that.

And, to be honest, I think that personal branding is overrated.

Granted, I come from the direct response school of thought where a great offer is everything.

Now, if you want to do this for personal reasons and because it's your passion, by all means, go for it.

But if you're only doing it to increase profits, there are other (better) ways, like improving your offer, improving copy, building funnels etc.

And if you do all that without involving yourself personally in the business, you are building an asset that you can sell for big $ 3-5 years down the line.

Good luck in either way.

[Dark Triad Man]

(10-02-2016 01:25 AM)stefpdt Wrote:  

No, I didn't just finish reading Gorilla Mindset.

I've actually recognized for years that this forum a lot of ambitious guys with a real message to share, so I don't know of a better place to bring up this discussion.

(I stopped reading most business forums because the entrepreneurship scene is too spergy).

I'm also positive that at least some of you guys have contemplated running your own business with your face, identity, and personal brand being the driving force behind it all.

So, I'm bringing all of this up because I find myself constantly going back and forth whether I should "go public" with my personal brand at some point, and be open about associating my image with the message that I wanna share.

The general message that I want to share revolves around health and wellness truths, and providing people with information that's actually beneficial. No bullshit involved.

But, it's still a tough decision because life is complicated, and there are major pros and cons to sharing a message with the masses and showing the world who you are.

It definitely takes balls, and I applaud guys like Roosh and Cernovich for putting themselves out there to help hundreds of thousands of people.

Here are the pros and cons that I've been able to come up with so far when it comes to going mass market public with your image:

--Cons--

Some level of risk

I want absolutely nothing to do with acquiring 'internet fame'. But I feel like it's almost an inevitability if you want to accomplish truly big things.

I remember reading a story on James Altucher's blog about how he's dealt with people who have basically stalked him outside his home.

I'm sure Roosh has had similar experiences with weirdos who have spotted him in public.

Must deal with regular people

Trolls don't bother me. But, people who like to waste time disgust me. Part of me wants to avoid blue pill people for the rest of eternity. But the other part of me knows that this is difficult to pull off unless you become an internet marketer (I hate internet marketing, but I appreciate some internet marketing strategies for building brands).

Less personal freedom

Living a "high profile" lifestyle means that you usually have to become more careful about your words and actions because they have a greater impact than before.

Can't be a g manifesto

This guy's twitter feed is a dream for plenty of you guys. It's OK to admit that. I don't care whether he's real or fake. The lifestyle that he presents is very feasible (make 7 figures a year, bang sluts, and maintain a low profile). But, my issue with his persona is that there may be a limit to how hard you can pimp it in life without revealing your identity and going BIG with a message, business or personal brand.

--Pros--

Associating your business' brand with your identity can practically eliminate competition

From what I can tell, most guys on RVF are cool as fuck, and would easily be able to create a popular website, media channel, brand etc. Putting your image out there and running game on the masses can basically crush your competitors who most likely still operate their business with the nice guy shtick.

Gain social proof

Becoming a 'leader of men' is a little known trick for gaining massive social proof. I think it taps into some primal biological traits from back when AMOGs used to lead their tribes. This territory comes with power and influence etc. etc.

Financial rewards

I'd be lying if I said that the financial rewards of building a public brand aren't appealing. You basically wouldn't have to worry about money if your brand makes it 'big', because the act of spilling helpful truths and putting your image on the line can usually become a high-ROI activity. People are attracted to raw and vulnerable truths, and money eventually follows after a lot of hard work.

It's the more aggressive approach to life

I think that people may go through a period of unhappiness when they first make themselves vulnerable and share a truthful message with the world. But, they **probably** ultimately die happier knowing that they gave life their all and lived courageously. I still don't know if this is right, but it's my gut instinct.

Here are some final questions I have that might help to spark conversation:

• Are there any good books or articles about this topic?
• Can @Roosh share any perspective on this?
• Who else shares the same curse that I do (obsessive drive to make the most of the limited life that we have)? I know I'm not alone on here...
• How do YOU define the ideal lifestyle?
  

For many people, I realize that living a low-key lifestyle and doing awesome shit is still very possible. And that's completely OK.

But I just hope to have an open conversation about all of this.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Do it.

That is my only advice.

Do it well, with all the ferocity you possess.

You may fail and die...

...but you will not regret a life without fear.

Regards,

Ivan

[stefpdt]

(10-03-2016 07:32 AM)Carmichael Reid Wrote:  

You gotta realize that every moment you walk outside your house, you are 'going public with your brand.' This is a concept shared both in Game and Branding.

Know thyself.

Dig deep to find out who you really are.

Being anxious is fine. Being scared takes rigorous work and practice to be prepared and execute.
I found making a total ass of myself and owning it worked. It just didn't bother me. It's like Jerry Seinfeld going to dump hole in the ground towns to test his material
before an HBO special... Fail where you can hide it, but learn immensely from it. Because the same mistake in Macro is just an exaggerated mistake in Micro. <-- That's a keeper.

I like the poker axiom:

You gotta give action to get action. (Trump is playing Clinton like a fiddle with this concept)

I liked that post you shared. Keep in mind that the courage to be unique and consistently delivering on uniqueness will set you apart. Seduction by Robert Greene is good.
You will be humiliated and embarrassed if you are trying to be different from the crowd.

There is absolutely zero money in being the same.

Story by Robert McKee is good.

Acting classes would be a strong move. But not necessary.

All the best.

Thanks again for the solid advice. Seduction is one of my favorite reads.

I've made a total ass out of myself too, no worries. I've bombed public speeches and start-up business pitches in front of probably 150+ people before.

I used to have hardcore anxiety thinking about it. But now I just put life in perspective and give a lot less fucks.

Yes, Seinfeld's a huge inspiration. He's one of those guys who you can tell is more proud of the effort that he put into life than anything else.

(10-03-2016 11:04 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Remember, Cernovich wrote anonymously for years before going public. Roosh went public early because he had no choice - DC Bachelor was outed and he decided to go all in (which I respect).

I know your topic is probably not as controversial as either of theirs, but be careful. Personally, I value my privacy way too much to become well known to average people.

Thanks for the advice man.

Trust me, I value my privacy just as much as yourself and any other guy on here. I appreciate the amazing freedom that comes with living a low-key lifestyle, running game, and being self-employed.

It's a unbelievable time in history to be a single guy with time and money.

The deeper conflict comes from the fact that I have "the curse". It's like an inner drive that's hard to control. I want to die knowing that I lived an impactful existence. I think I'm a "giver" in reference to the Derek Sivers article quoted above.

I don't expect most people to understand.

(10-04-2016 05:48 AM)Demandred Wrote:  

Do keep in mind that if you go down the personal brand route, it'll be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to sell your business down the line.

Sure, you might be passionate about it right now and you can't imagine ever selling it, but people change, marketplaces change and you might be in a position later in your life where you want to sell your business and pocket the cash. If you are your business (guru, writer, information marketing, etc.) it's almost impossible to do that.

And, to be honest, I think that personal branding is overrated.

Granted, I come from the direct response school of thought where a great offer is everything.

Now, if you want to do this for personal reasons and because it's your passion, by all means, go for it.

But if you're only doing it to increase profits, there are other (better) ways, like improving your offer, improving copy, building funnels etc.

And if you do all that without involving yourself personally in the business, you are building an asset that you can sell for big $ 3-5 years down the line.

Good luck in either way.

Yep. I've taken into consideration that personal branding can be the one thing that prevents a business from getting a 30X valuation.

It's a catch-22 for my industry, which is publishing in the health and wellness space. The biggest players in my industry do show their faces.

I agree that you can choose to go either way - personal branding or not. None of my current businesses are passions.

If I were to launch my personal brand (which I'm actively considering at the moment) - then I would start fresh with a clean slate. It wouldn't be set up to maximize ROI in the short-term.

My personal brand would be an asset that grows, adapts and generally sticks with me for life. After building like 10+ web properties, I now know to choose projects carefully. Our time is limited.

But your advice is still spot on, and I appreciate it. I can respect the cautionary advice about how people change, and may need to make a quick sale later down the road.

(10-04-2016 10:14 AM)Dark Triad Man Wrote:  

Do it.

That is my only advice.

Do it well, with all the ferocity you possess.

You may fail and die...

...but you will not regret a life without fear.

Regards,

Ivan

An epic comment from another public figure who I greatly respect. Your style is unmatched man.

Thank you sincerely for the advice.

I knew there were some ambitious guys on RVF, but I never expected the quality of comments in this thread to reach this level.

Difficult to find any other community of enlightened hard hitters like this one. I don't think RVF gets enough credit for this.

I also think I might've known what my decision was going to be all along. When you have that fire to speak the truth and go big with a brand, you can't suppress it.

[BelyyTigr]

(10-02-2016 01:25 AM)stefpdt Wrote:  

No, I didn't just finish reading Gorilla Mindset.

I've actually recognized for years that this forum a lot of ambitious guys with a real message to share, so I don't know of a better place to bring up this discussion.

(I stopped reading most business forums because the entrepreneurship scene is too spergy).

I'm also positive that at least some of you guys have contemplated running your own business with your face, identity, and personal brand being the driving force behind it all.

So, I'm bringing all of this up because I find myself constantly going back and forth whether I should "go public" with my personal brand at some point, and be open about associating my image with the message that I wanna share.

The general message that I want to share revolves around health and wellness truths, and providing people with information that's actually beneficial. No bullshit involved.

But, it's still a tough decision because life is complicated, and there are major pros and cons to sharing a message with the masses and showing the world who you are.

It definitely takes balls, and I applaud guys like Roosh and Cernovich for putting themselves out there to help hundreds of thousands of people.

Here are the pros and cons that I've been able to come up with so far when it comes to going mass market public with your image:

--Cons--

Some level of risk

I want absolutely nothing to do with acquiring 'internet fame'. But I feel like it's almost an inevitability if you want to accomplish truly big things.

I remember reading a story on James Altucher's blog about how he's dealt with people who have basically stalked him outside his home.

I'm sure Roosh has had similar experiences with weirdos who have spotted him in public.

Must deal with regular people

Trolls don't bother me. But, people who like to waste time disgust me. Part of me wants to avoid blue pill people for the rest of eternity. But the other part of me knows that this is difficult to pull off unless you become an internet marketer (I hate internet marketing, but I appreciate some internet marketing strategies for building brands).

Less personal freedom

Living a "high profile" lifestyle means that you usually have to become more careful about your words and actions because they have a greater impact than before.

Can't be a g manifesto

This guy's twitter feed is a dream for plenty of you guys. It's OK to admit that. I don't care whether he's real or fake. The lifestyle that he presents is very feasible (make 7 figures a year, bang sluts, and maintain a low profile). But, my issue with his persona is that there may be a limit to how hard you can pimp it in life without revealing your identity and going BIG with a message, business or personal brand.

--Pros--

Associating your business' brand with your identity can practically eliminate competition

From what I can tell, most guys on RVF are cool as fuck, and would easily be able to create a popular website, media channel, brand etc. Putting your image out there and running game on the masses can basically crush your competitors who most likely still operate their business with the nice guy shtick.

Gain social proof

Becoming a 'leader of men' is a little known trick for gaining massive social proof. I think it taps into some primal biological traits from back when AMOGs used to lead their tribes. This territory comes with power and influence etc. etc.

Financial rewards

I'd be lying if I said that the financial rewards of building a public brand aren't appealing. You basically wouldn't have to worry about money if your brand makes it 'big', because the act of spilling helpful truths and putting your image on the line can usually become a high-ROI activity. People are attracted to raw and vulnerable truths, and money eventually follows after a lot of hard work.

It's the more aggressive approach to life

I think that people may go through a period of unhappiness when they first make themselves vulnerable and share a truthful message with the world. But, they **probably** ultimately die happier knowing that they gave life their all and lived courageously. I still don't know if this is right, but it's my gut instinct.

Here are some final questions I have that might help to spark conversation:

• Are there any good books or articles about this topic?
• Can @Roosh share any perspective on this?
• Who else shares the same curse that I do (obsessive drive to make the most of the limited life that we have)? I know I'm not alone on here...
• How do YOU define the ideal lifestyle?
  

For many people, I realize that living a low-key lifestyle and doing awesome shit is still very possible. And that's completely OK.

But I just hope to have an open conversation about all of this.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

This is an interesting topic. I've been meaning to address it, maybe in another thread.
Firstly, for some businesses, you can build huge synergy by having a personal brand.
But for other businesses, being "known" to more than a tiny number of people is completely unnecessary.
Think of import export, "fixers", oil traders, arms dealers and a vast number of cloak and dagger trades. You don't find these people in the Yellow Pages. The secrecy, mystique etc all add to the cachet. Infact appearing above the radar just qualifies people in some of these trades as an "also ran" not a big hitter. Now these people might appear wealthy/pulling the top bitches etc or whatever, but any status in their community might have to be built from something entirely other than their work. (Yes, it may just have been leveraging their money).

Another aspect to some of this is that much "personal branding" is just web based these days. You might be famous amongst the "traditional healthcare crowd" or "European film set design". But you could be completely unknown in your own local community. This is a potential pitfal too in most in "location independent" work.

In my case, I'm starting to think "one career for money" and another creative career( 20% of the time) for the fun and the social aspect.

[qwertyuiop]

Edit

[Off The Reservation]

This was a good thread. Any update?

[crdr]

Anyone who is still interested in creating a personal brand.
Marc Ecko of of Ecko sweatshirt fame in the 90s wrote a very good book called "UNLABEL"
But he forgot to tell you that his formula must add up to a dollar sign (= $$$). If you're personal brand
ain't making money or at least a little money in the beginning... You don't have a brand. You are a grain of sand.

[jamaicabound]

Not sure if any of you guys get into Garyvee the Youtuber but this is basically what he is all about and what he encourages other people to do. His big message is every comapny is a media company, he's also huge on the idea storytelling is a huge aspect of business and selling. No matter what service or product you sell he essentially says you need to be a media company.

Even look at a product like RedBull. They are almost more of a media company / event company with their extreme sports, diving tournaments, skydiving, flutag competition, etc even more so than they are a beverage company.