[NovaVirtu]

As many of you know, antibiotics are wildly overused by doctors these days, resulting in increasing amounts freaky treatment-resistant superbugs which may someday wipe out humanity. But that's not what this thread is about. (yet)

While antibiotics certainly have their uses, they can due a lot harm to the good bacteria in our bodies, particularly in the gut. Using antibiotics to treat an illness is kind of like dropping a nuclear bomb on city to kill an enemy insurgents...yes, you killed the enemy...but you also annihilated the city you were trying to liberate.

Which raises the question: How do we undo this damage once it is done?

My story: About a year and half ago, I developed some weird vision problems while I was in Peru. Upon returning to the States I saw an eye doctor who diagnosed it as a central retinol vein occulsion. He reccomended I go to regular doctor. I had some bloodwork done and he calls me up and tells me I have lyme disease, which apparently can contribute to the eye problem mentioned above. He insisted he'd only seen a few people with lyme antibody levels this high.

He perscribes 400mg a day of doxycycline for 30 days. When I dropped off the prescription the pharmacist did a doubletake and asked me if directions were correct. That's when I got concerned. But I also knew lyme can supposedly be really bad and I didn't want to take any chances so I downed the pills each day.

Fast forward to the present- I think I may have done enourmous damage to my gut flora. I really don't feel different, but I'm concerned this could cause problems I can't forsee down the road.

So now, my question is:

What is the best way to replenish the gut with healthy, beneficial microbes?

Let's use this thread to post ideas, recipes, foods and supplements that we've found useful. I think we may all find this helpful eventually, as the overuse of antibiotics doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon.

[Soma]

(09-22-2016 10:03 PM)NovaVirtu Wrote:  

What is the best way to replenish the gut with healthy, beneficial microbes?

Fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) is currently the only serious option. In the United States it is only medically available for persistent C. difficile infection victims. A healthy gut microbiome contains hundreds of strains of bacteria, many of which are permanently deleted by antibiotics. Common probiotics and bacteria from fermented dairy (e.g. yogurt, kefir) cannot live in the gut and simply pass through. In principle, a few strains may be recovered from eating home fermented vegetables (e.g. sauerkraut, kim chi, etc.), but this alone is very likely insufficient to recover significantly from antibiotic damage.

[Marlo]

I'd checkout probiotics & prebiotics as well, while I've heard probiotics ain't that effective like the previous poster said, prebiotics could be worth a look,

[Soma]

(09-23-2016 07:44 AM)Marlo Wrote:  

I'd checkout probiotics & prebiotics as well, while I've heard probiotics ain't that effective like the previous poster said, prebiotics could be worth a look,

Consumption of prebiotics, and fiber from food more generally, can change the relative prevalence of bacterial strains in the gut, but can't restore strains that have been lost.

[rottenapple]

I wonder what effect the indigenous drink ´chicha (de jora)´ has on your gut bacteria. Basically this is corn based drink which the indigenous women take into their mouth and spit out again for fermentation. The Colombia/Peru members probably heard about it. It sounds disgusting, but we now know that the indigenous groups in latin america have much richer gut flora than us westerners. By drinking it would we, through the spit, get in the beneficial bacteria they have? Or would the level of fermentation (alcohol?) kill off whatever good bacteria are in it? Just a hipotheses, I don´t find much info on it. This tradition is centuries old and seems to me a way of sharing bacteria in a communal way to preserve the health of all. Many times these age old customs have a positive effect, but none really know how.

Another anecdote I have is when I visited a medicine man in the mountains in Colombia, a man with a so called vision. He knows what illnesses you have by looking at your piss. Anyway he prescribed me a bunch of medicinal plants, but also what he called ´tierra blanca´ or white earth. When I found out what it was, I saw it was just pretty much a sort of gravel and I thought he sold me crap. When I started thinking about it though, I realized that probably the plants are supposed to restore my organ function and the special type of dirt, containing a lot of bacteria, might be able to restore my gut flora. It is still strange but this man is widely respected and is known to cure pretty much everything in that area of Colombia.

Right now I´m trying Kombucha, let´s see if it has any effect.

[Soma]

(09-23-2016 09:36 AM)rottenapple Wrote:  

Another anecdote I have is when I visited a medicine man in the mountains in Colombia, a man with a so called vision. He knows what illnesses you have by looking at your piss. Anyway he prescribed me a bunch of medicinal plants, but also what he called ´tierra blanca´ or white earth. When I found out what it was, I saw it was just pretty much a sort of gravel and I thought he sold me crap. When I started thinking about it though, I realized that probably the plants are supposed to restore my organ function and the special type of dirt, containing a lot of bacteria, might be able to restore my gut flora. It is still strange but this man is widely respected and is known to cure pretty much everything in that area of Colombia.

Soil contains all sorts of organisms - some beneficial bacteria, but also plenty of parasites that make humans sick, which is why its generally inadvisable to eat it. Could be that mountain medicine man's white earth was a traditionally known specific type of soil that supported good bacteria with minimal human parasites, or that they've found a way to make it so.

[remarkable vigour]

(09-22-2016 10:03 PM)NovaVirtu Wrote:  

As many of you know, antibiotics are wildly overused by doctors these days, resulting in increasing amounts freaky treatment-resistant superbugs which may someday wipe out humanity. But that's not what this thread is about. (yet)

While antibiotics certainly have their uses, they can due a lot harm to the good bacteria in our bodies, particularly in the gut. Using antibiotics to treat an illness is kind of like dropping a nuclear bomb on city to kill an enemy insurgents...yes, you killed the enemy...but you also annihilated the city you were trying to liberate.

Which raises the question: How do we undo this damage once it is done?

My story: About a year and half ago, I developed some weird vision problems while I was in Peru. Upon returning to the States I saw an eye doctor who diagnosed it as a central retinol vein occulsion. He reccomended I go to regular doctor. I had some bloodwork done and he calls me up and tells me I have lyme disease, which apparently can contribute to the eye problem mentioned above. He insisted he'd only seen a few people with lyme antibody levels this high.

He perscribes 400mg a day of doxycycline for 30 days. When I dropped off the prescription the pharmacist did a doubletake and asked me if directions were correct. That's when I got concerned. But I also knew lyme can supposedly be really bad and I didn't want to take any chances so I downed the pills each day.

Fast forward to the present- I think I may have done enourmous damage to my gut flora. I really don't feel different, but I'm concerned this could cause problems I can't forsee down the road.

So now, my question is:

What is the best way to replenish the gut with healthy, beneficial microbes?

Let's use this thread to post ideas, recipes, foods and supplements that we've found useful. I think we may all find this helpful eventually, as the overuse of antibiotics doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon.

I suggest you have a look at http://www.elixa-probiotic.com/uk/

More details can be found here http://freetheanimal.com/elixa-probiotic

No connection etc.

[Undercover]

Feed them lots of fruit as well. Fruit smoothies are my personal favorite.

[Yeti]

I am far from an expert on this topic. So, take it for what it's worth. But I made the following changes to my diet and haven't suffered any negative health consequences that I can discern:

- drink kombucha tea at night, M-F
- eat natto (Japanese fermented soy beans) with dinner. It's delicious. Though, I worry about the amount of soy that I consume
- fermented ginger with dinner (find it at an Asian grocery store)
- I add about five or six pieces of kimchi to my dinners, M-F. I didn't like the taste at first, but I got used to it and now I actually like the taste. It's an easy way to get in some fermented food - you just add it to whatever you have for dinner

[AboveAverageJoe]

Apple Cider Vinegar.

[serpico]

Eradicate all, or as close as you can get to all, refined sugars from your diet. Seriously, one of the best things i've ever done. Aside from the vodka or the occasional beer (a man has to have a bit of slack), i dont consume anything that has this in any kind of measure. Green veggies, fish, plenty of onions, leeks, brocoli, seeds, eggs, lemons (alkalines in the gut), that's basically the cornerstone of your diet if you're serious....

[AboveAverageJoe]

Basically, the bad shit you eat like sugar and processed carbs feed bad gut bacteria and healthy foods encourage the growth of pro-bacteria. Collustrum contains extremely important gut bacteria which newborns depend on for strong immune systems. Once a baby has its first ear infection antibiotics wipe them out. Nothing can really be done other than drinking some collostrum next time you have a baby.

[oilbreh]

Find some health nut hippy chick, and go down on that puss like your life depended on it.

[Hypno]

here is an infomercial from an MD who is pushing pre-biotics. I can't vouch for what he is selling but there is some relevant, not widely known info about nutrition in his lead up (for example, about lectins).

warning - this is some sort of sales pitch; i havent' made it all the way through yet.

http://silenceyourcravings.com/170127A.php?n=cad

[Australia Sucks]

Great thread guys.

[roberto]

(09-25-2016 12:00 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Basically, the bad shit you eat like sugar and processed carbs feed bad gut bacteria and healthy foods encourage the growth of pro-bacteria. Collustrum contains extremely important gut bacteria which newborns depend on for strong immune systems. Once a baby has its first ear infection antibiotics wipe them out. Nothing can really be done other than drinking some collostrum next time you have a baby.

That must depend upon whether the colostrum donor had had antibiotitcs.

I'd imagine that your gut flora builds up slowly again, much the way the first lot did. After all, your shit still stinks, right? Gotta be some microbes doing their thing.

[ivansirko]

A lot of good advice in this thread. I can only provide what has worked for me so take it for what its worth.

Kefir is the best way to do this without replacing your gut bacteria via donor. Not the store bought....but the real live probiotic. The store bought is quite light in that regard. You can buy live Kefir on amazon and keep it going for a long as you want.

https://www.amazon.com/1TBSP-Active-Orga...kefir&th=1

I had GURD for the longest time until i started taking Kefir. Took a lot of garbage medications and OTC which made the problem worse until i started taking Kefir on a regular basis. What I would do is mix it with a little sugar/coffee creamer to give it flavor or mix it with a protein shake.

To add: i was in a similar situation where doctors would insist on overmedicating via antibiotics for dental work.

[Hypno]

I have spent some time doing this.

The first step is to get your healthy bacteria back in shape with prebiotics. Like someone said, these can only restore the balance of existing bacteria. However, this is an important first step to create the right gut enviroment. That Dr. Gundy video essentially pushes a very expensive forumation of inulin which you can buy from a health food store much more cheaply. I also take potato starch, tapioca flour, and psyllium husk.

This is akin to fertilizing your lawn to choke out weeds like crabgrass.

Next, you have to introduce bacteria. Probiotics is one way. Fermented foods like saurkraut, kimchi, kefir, and kombucha is another. I haven't gone fecal transplant but some folks have done this.

ACV by itself doesn't work but it can reduce some harmful organisims like yeast.

You can also take foodgrade diatomaceous earth to rid yourself of parasites.

I also supplement with spirulina which is supposed to chelate toxins from your body. Those toxins may be interfereing with your backteria balance.

There is in magic bullet but these are some easily implementable steps to do the groundwork.

[Roosh]

Probiotics seem to have only a temporary effect, and are more useful when recovering from stomach borne illnesses that involve diarrhea.

The only thing that really works is diet change. You'll have to experiment with what foods your "new" digestive system can tolerate. Start from there and as the months go on, see if you can add other foods.

When I got sick multiple times in South America, my gut was a wreck for a couple years. I made diet changes and now, nearly a decade latter, I'm 85% back to normal. Your flora is constantly changing, so things can improve if you're careful with your diet.

[Fortis]

In my childhood and teens I used to wake up with a horrible burning pain in my guts. Just agonizing. The doctor could never figure it out.

As I got older it subsided but would still happen once in a while. When i moved to Asia I started getting those issues again because of how shitty the food storage practices are in places like China. A good friend of mine suggested that I start drinking kefir.

I find that it helps with a lot of China-related gut-issues. I often used to get bloat and sour stomach but that's been happening less frequently. I also cut out a lot of unecessary oils. If I want to fry something, I use an air fryer instead of a pan.

I know that's not exactly what you were looking for, but I do agree that guys who have bad gut problems need to start looking at their diets more carefully.

I know it's cliche, but cut the crappy foods and load up on oats, green veggies, lean and fatty cuts of meat and a lot of these issues tend to iron themselves out.

I now live abroad and cook 90% of my meals and I rarely experience issues now. TUrns out I just have a delicate stomach.

TL;DR:

Try out some kefir. You can brew it daily for the cost of a few cups of milk.

[redbeard]

(09-23-2017 08:41 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

TL;DR:

Try out some kefir. You can brew it daily for the cost of a few cups of milk.

Bust out a datasheet!

I've had some gut health issues in the past. Do I have good or bad bacteria...who knows...I don't care, but I know the following helps:

-Avoiding sugar and gluten
-Eating a lot of red meat, sauerkraut, kombucha

Edit: and not taking antibiotics. Seriously, unless you have some crazy bacteria destroying your life, you'll live.

[cosworth]

I've tried all sorts of pro biotics over the year , had a candidia issue at one point which caused all sorts of problems.
The best pro biotics I could find were
AMD Syntol and Yakult seem to do the trick for me. A lot of probiotics get killed in the stomach acid before they have a chance to populate.

[lex the impaler]

(09-23-2017 10:05 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

(09-23-2017 08:41 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

TL;DR:

Try out some kefir. You can brew it daily for the cost of a few cups of milk.

Bust out a datasheet!

I've had some gut health issues in the past. Do I have good or bad bacteria...who knows...I don't care, but I know the following helps:

-Avoiding sugar and gluten
-Eating a lot of red meat, sauerkraut, kombucha

Edit: and not taking antibiotics. Seriously, unless you have some crazy bacteria destroying your life, you'll live.

I agree. Kimchi is great as well. Just load up on fermented foods like its going out of style. Just make sure the sauerkraut you get is in the refrigerated section of the store. You can make your own as well.

[aeroektar]

I used sauerkraut and a change to eating all healthy whole/raw foods to rebuild my gut health. I got a nasty abscess in a cracked tooth back in Feb. (which I believe was triggered by a case of extreme stress related to something completely different) I was traveling and eating like shit most of the time. I actually managed to get the abscess somewhat under control but couldn't rid myself of it (sometimes it felt like a tendernesspressure when I pressed against the skin or opened my mouth). I was oil pulling, eating fresh turmeric, garlic, ginger, coconut oil, ACV and probiotics (pill form) EVERYDAY.

When I got back to the states I finally got in to see the dentist and they did a root canal in April, I ended up taking amoxicillin for 21 days which scared the shit out of me because I've read all about it nuking your good bacteria and I hadn't taken antibiotics since I was probably in elementary school (I don't actually remember ever having to take antibiotics in my life). So I took probiotics and kept up my healthy food regimen prior to, during, and after the coarse. The only change I made was switching from pill form probiotics to the high dollar sauerkraut sold at whole foods, over the coarse of 4 months I think I ate 10 jars of that stuff (different brand/variety every time for diversity) and I actually love the taste of it now, I would just eat a heaping spoonful twice a day, sometimes I'd drink store bought kombucha tea as well.

Long story short, the abscess cleared up within 1-2 weeks after the root canal and I have felt no negative effects from the long coarse of amoxicillin. I'm no longer eating sauerkraut because its expensive and I fell like its unnecessary right now. I just finished a big bottle of acidophilus but I fell like it does little for me compared to fermented foods (could be psychological). I still eat a healthy whole food/raw diet thats mostly paleo. I still take a turmeric supplement, ACV, raw garlic and ginger with at least one meal a day.

I have a friend who got off of a long coarse of antibiotics for lyme (diagnosis/coarse was 2-3 months ago) and hes still feeling and looking like shit, I've tried to give him advice, he's even asked for it, but he wont listen or take action, he'd rather continue to eat fast food daily, pound cheap beer and neglect his health. The same goes for my mother who's taken multiple coarses of antibiotics over the last decade and has had a lingering respiratory and all sorts of other health issues that wont go away or keep popping up. I even bought her a smoothie blender, told her everything she should buy to turn her health around including diet and supplements, and all she does is procrastinate. Like they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I'm glad this topic has been gaining traction though because I believe its the main key and most effective path to overall health if one takes a well rounded approach.

[redbeard]

(09-24-2017 10:01 AM)lex the impaler Wrote:  

(09-23-2017 10:05 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

(09-23-2017 08:41 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

TL;DR:

Try out some kefir. You can brew it daily for the cost of a few cups of milk.

Bust out a datasheet!

I've had some gut health issues in the past. Do I have good or bad bacteria...who knows...I don't care, but I know the following helps:

-Avoiding sugar and gluten
-Eating a lot of red meat, sauerkraut, kombucha

Edit: and not taking antibiotics. Seriously, unless you have some crazy bacteria destroying your life, you'll live.

I agree. Kimchi is great as well. Just load up on fermented foods like its going out of style. Just make sure the sauerkraut you get is in the refrigerated section of the store. You can make your own as well.

See - The Fermentation Thread